<!--quoteo(post=1850684:date=Jun 8 2011, 11:24 AM:name=PsiWarp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsiWarp @ Jun 8 2011, 11:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850684"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How's the new res model for y'all? More TRes means more upgrades and structures, and RFK to make up for the fact PRes generates very slowly, right?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've never been a fan of RFK but if the dev team is dead set on doing it then it should be used to encourage teamwork as opposed to hindering it. Give res out for everything that gives points; building, repairing etc. Don't just limit it to kills. An even better solution would be giving it out for everything except killing enemy players.
<!--quoteo(post=1850686:date=Jun 8 2011, 01:38 AM:name=Ryo-Ohki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ryo-Ohki @ Jun 8 2011, 01:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850686"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've never been a fan of RFK but if the dev team is dead set on doing it then it should be used to encourage teamwork as opposed to hindering it. Give res out for everything that gives points; building, repairing etc. Don't just limit it to kills. An even better solution would be giving it out for everything except killing enemy players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like this, perhaps 1 res for being in the same squad AND near the killer. Would encourage squads to fight together.
I maintain that R4K is good for aliens and not so good for marines. It just doesn't fit with the team aesthetic. Nobody wants to be stuck on building duty while their buddies are racking up cash by covering. Res for points also seems too metagamey IMO, thinking about how to min/max your score shouldn't be a central part of the game.
Server tickrate and generally laggyness are still the main issues. When joining a team / spawning and using phase gates my screen just goes black for a while and it feels very sticky.
Mr. EpicJoin Date: 2003-08-01Member: 18660Members, Constellation
Haven't had a big patch in a while, here are the initial thoughts:
-The map is very well done and looks great. It feels a bit like a big and highly detailed quake3 DM map in a way, which speaks to its slickness. Haven't played enough on it to determine if it will end up being a great gameplay map but it certainly seems like a great inclusion, props to the map maker and to the art folks who produced all of the assets that got put to such good use.
-Bloom looks great under certain circumstances but is otherwise too distracting. It looks fantastic on flames/explosions and looks good in underlit areas when the dynamics are accentuated, but as a global post-processing effect it is too much. When a bright control panel gets "bloomed" all I can think of are mid 2000s "me-too!" bloom effects. Maybe there can be an option for selective bloom or effects-only bloom, or simply have a slider to allow the adjustment of the effect variables or opacity or something? I like bloom in some ways and wouldn't want to turn it completely off if there was a way for me to tone it down to make it work.
-Performance isn't drastically different from before which is disappointing. Client framerate has steadily improved but server tick rate is still far too low, 12 player servers with a tick rate hovering around 10fps doesn't cut it. To be perfectly honest this low gameplay rate, and all of the associated delay around it, feels like the biggest issue for NS2 right now. It is much much much improved over the alpha but the rate of improvement on this point hasn't been as great as expected, and NS2 isn't going to feel much like NS if it doesn't have *very* tight input. Right now the delays are so high that if you don't see a skulk across the room you can't react before you are dead, its just so distant from NS where you could miss the skulks until after they get a first bite on you and you could still own the skulk(s) with ease. That can't happen in NS2 right now. Maybe this isn't a big deal and you guys are waiting for the game asset stuff to be completed before you finally tackle it, but for players this really does feel like the biggest issue facing the game right now.
-The game is filling out and is feeling more and more complete. Seeing the game fill out with such consistently high visual production values is encouraging and when you guys get the tightness element down it is clear that the game is going to look great on a number of levels. The gameplay side of things is also encouraging- some of the more experimental gameplay concepts have been scaled back or adjusted to fit as the game comes together and I take this as a positive development.
I'll summarize findings later. But wanted to report a bug and an observation.
Minor Bug: Commander UI seemed to be caching when i first clicked on it. Nothing happened i clicked on all tabs...then it worked like a charm. precache this before showing me the menu.
Bug: I researched an ARC twice the doors opened nothing came out.
Observation: I jumped on with a player who hadn't spinned it up in awhile. He tried commanding. He could not understand where on the map the resources were. On the map and the mini-map they did not stand out much.
I just have to say, this is looking simply amazing. I'm glad how far you've gone and hope this will only continue and surpass what the original NS was in players, competition, and stability. I can't wait to see when player models move seamlessly and to have an onos come charging down a hallway to knock every marine in his path aside.
<!--quoteo(post=1850675:date=Jun 7 2011, 09:05 PM:name=SiNz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SiNz @ Jun 7 2011, 09:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850675"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hey NS2 team, i got a few issues with NS2 :P I believe the map is Rockdown.. As a skulk when i'm on the roof above the command station at marines main spawn, when i press space bar to drop ontop of the Command Station it automatically puts me back onto the roof.. It's coz of how you guys have mad the skulk stick to the walls much easier and the same issue in the vent, instead of running on the flat surface, you keep sticking to the walls whilst running as a skulk.. The other thing, i tryed to evolve in the vents which i couldn't untill i crouched, then when i evolved my whole screen went back, could hear sounds, make sounds, shoot parasite n what not, i pressed F and all i could see was my mouth and teeth glowing on a black backgroond<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You want to be pressing ctrl key not space key to drop from ceilings. Also don't evolve in the vents.
Anyways I experienced some problems with the marine comm not being able to build anything (For anyone that went in to give it a try also). Fades seem a bit to op? Only time will tell, maybe they want more teamwork? I dunno, Fades rip through ###### now. Uhmm, after a match being alien comm - when game ends you do not get put back into the starting room. j1, j2, rr do not work also in console; I had to leave/join server again.
This is a great patch... so much content. Haven't been able to test the ARC yet, but the fade is so much better now. The new blink is perfect and really what fades needed to be the fearsome foes that they were in NS. I think the personal res tick rate is a bit too slow now that the upgrades have been removed. Usually I find myself with lots of team res but not much personal res.
I'm also loving the new cost for buildings. The higher cost & longer build times for hives, lower IP and RT costs are just what was needed. Phase gates look amazing too.
My only major complaint so far is that sometimes the game doesn't recognize I have two hives up, so I can't drop a crag unless I build a third. This happened twice in a row on summit when I took the east hive. Also, summit is far too large for the current infestation system. It takes so long to expand to the nearest res node without taking a second hive. I'm hoping the pustule system will allow longer distance between them in open areas.
I joined a server (I should say there were a good number of well populated servers!) and played around in spectator mode. The Fades seemed to work better than before and were more deadly to marines. Marines seemed to take longer to get res towers and other things though that could be because everyone was playing around a bit. I saw skulks kill marines more often than the previous patch.
I saw a robot factory and another structure next to it - no idea what that was. Haven't seen the ARC or portal things yet.
Bloom is generally excellent. I would prefer if it wasn't so strong in Alien areas...I might have to get used to that.
Can't say I noticed much difference in performance. Might be a bit smoother than before but still stutters/lags when going into new areas.
Will post screenshots in the screenshot thread very soon.
NolSinklerOn the ClorfJoin Date: 2004-02-15Member: 26560Members, Constellation
It's wonderful. Just wonderful! I love the new map. The fade's blink is really cool, but will take some time to get used to. Haven't seen ARC, phase gates were being built in one game but then we (aliens) lost first. It's great.
Just wanted to put in my 2 cents. Just got the game today, and played it a bit before and after the patch. I really have had a lot of fun and had some very good games. I think there is some improvements to be made to make the game play more intuitive regarding what to do if you're new to the game. I haven't had major bug problems, just minor ones that aren't a big deal. The game plays great, depending on the map I get a steady 30+ FPS.
I'm running q6600 core2quad 2.6ghz, 3 gigs ram, windows 32 bit, and nvidia gtx 460. I look forward to further performance increases! Great work. :)
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited June 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1850672:date=Jun 7 2011, 05:00 PM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Jun 7 2011, 05:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850672"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On the new fade blink:
3) Need a bit more time in the "ethereal" zone to better choose when/where you're exiting to enable better tactics. This issue may get better once air control like NS1 is in.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wouldnt be needed if they just allowed the player to MOVE faster. its currently like walking.. feels really slow for something simulating a teleporting nightcrawler "blink". takes alot of time to cover ground on a marine currently. tweak this, and then you can keep the current allotted time the same for sake of appearing as a teleport etc. aka <u>skill based movement</u>
<!--quoteo(post=1850686:date=Jun 7 2011, 08:38 PM:name=Ryo-Ohki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ryo-Ohki @ Jun 7 2011, 08:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850686"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've never been a fan of RFK but if the dev team is dead set on doing it then it should be used to encourage teamwork as opposed to hindering it. Give res out for everything that gives points; building, repairing etc. Don't just limit it to kills. An even better solution would be giving it out for everything except killing enemy players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This patch was awesome. I was finally able to actually play the game! Silky smooth even with my high ping, and the graphics are really, really good now. Colors pop-up a lot which is a great improvement over the previous dull palette.
Excellent work UWE, and thank you for finally making the game playable for me!
<!--quoteo(post=1850709:date=Jun 8 2011, 04:45 AM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Jun 8 2011, 04:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850709"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Whats the structure in the foreground, next to the robot factory?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's an arms lab or whatever the marines use for upgrades.
I had a great couple of games just now. It seems like the aliens have the advantage after the latest update.
Here's some of my feedback:
* Server tickrate sometimes drops down to 5 or less when there is lots going on. This is really poor and I think improving this would have a big impact on performance. (In general my FPS is okay)
* Animations are clunky and I think this is one of the reasons the game feels jittery. I think in general if the hit-reg and animations were polished a bit more the game would be a lot more satisfying to play.
* IMO marine walking speed is too slow and (for the moment at least) the backwards walking penalty is not necessary. When playing as marine I always feel really clunky and slow. I think it would be better to increase both the marine speed and alien speed if you wanted to keep the ratio the same.
* As the fade you should be able to use WASD to control yourself in blink. This would enable blinking backwards and allow you to orientate yourself around your target easier.
* I think it would be better if the lerk flying was a little easier to use. I'd be better if by holding space you could remain at the same height in the air. This would allow smooth flying through corridors with you only needing to tap space or let it go to adjust your height accordingly.
Keep up the good work. The game is looking awesome.
Only had time for a fast sneek peak, because I have to leave for work. But it seems that alot of people were doing that sneek peak over here in Europe. The new build improves the framerate alot, no more intermittent hickups anymore and the server lag seems to have gone. The game actually became playable for me. Can't wait to give it a full playtest later today.
Hmm just checked the server log files, its 80meg. There was a huge chunk of Script Error lines (thousands of them), sorry I can't copy and paste it here don't have access from my work pc. Anyone else getting these?
Edit: Oh just got access allowed :)
example-
Script Error: Entity:SetOrigin called with bad values (-9510.066406 -10002.105469 -7073.810547)
lua/ScriptActor.lua:155
SetCoords [C]:-1
lua/Weapons/Projectile_Server.lua:81
Script Error: Entity:SetOrigin called with bad values (-9510.884766 -10002.964844 -7074.418945)
lua/ScriptActor.lua:155
SetCoords [C]:-1
lua/Weapons/Projectile_Server.lua:81
Script Error: Entity:SetOrigin called with bad values (-9511.703125 -10003.824219 -7075.027344)
<!--quoteo(post=1850730:date=Jun 8 2011, 12:58 AM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Jun 8 2011, 12:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850730"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Games on Summit take waaay too long. Every game I've played has been at least an hour, and most are over 2 hours.
The robotics factory and arms labs can cause passing marines to get stuck and they have to kill themselves. Looking good though. Love the phasegates.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gah, I'm jealous of your long games. Its been a while since I've had an interesting one that lasted a while. These short ones are just like teasing. =/ Not knocking your preference, but I just love the 1 and 2 hr games. Really sucks you in, immersion. Being thrown back to the RR constantly after short games is annoying. Not enough time to employ good, fun strategy.
<!--quoteo(post=1850699:date=Jun 7 2011, 10:59 PM:name=Stele007)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stele007 @ Jun 7 2011, 10:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850699"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is a great patch... so much content. Haven't been able to test the ARC yet, but the fade is so much better now. The new blink is perfect and really what fades needed to be the fearsome foes that they were in NS. I think the personal res tick rate is a bit too slow now that the upgrades have been removed. Usually I find myself with lots of team res but not much personal res.
I'm also loving the new cost for buildings. The higher cost & longer build times for hives, lower IP and RT costs are just what was needed. Phase gates look amazing too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Totally Agree.
The skulk seems to finally be able to bring the pain to the marines. The New Fade Blink is just amazing and the fade is finally able to break the stalemates we had in 177.
Alien upgrades seem to come really to quickly now, I was able to place a few craigs and whips and had all the alien upgrades done in no time flat, gave us a huge advantage right off the bat. Not sure if there should be a way to limit it, or tie it to hives???
To everyone who thinks the aliens are really overpowered, just give it a bit of time, give your self a chance to get use to the new gameplay and also dont forget that Jet packs and exo are on the way as well as mini guns, and rail guns.
Comments
I've never been a fan of RFK but if the dev team is dead set on doing it then it should be used to encourage teamwork as opposed to hindering it. Give res out for everything that gives points; building, repairing etc. Don't just limit it to kills. An even better solution would be giving it out for everything except killing enemy players.
I like this, perhaps 1 res for being in the same squad AND near the killer. Would encourage squads to fight together.
-The map is very well done and looks great. It feels a bit like a big and highly detailed quake3 DM map in a way, which speaks to its slickness. Haven't played enough on it to determine if it will end up being a great gameplay map but it certainly seems like a great inclusion, props to the map maker and to the art folks who produced all of the assets that got put to such good use.
-Bloom looks great under certain circumstances but is otherwise too distracting. It looks fantastic on flames/explosions and looks good in underlit areas when the dynamics are accentuated, but as a global post-processing effect it is too much. When a bright control panel gets "bloomed" all I can think of are mid 2000s "me-too!" bloom effects. Maybe there can be an option for selective bloom or effects-only bloom, or simply have a slider to allow the adjustment of the effect variables or opacity or something? I like bloom in some ways and wouldn't want to turn it completely off if there was a way for me to tone it down to make it work.
-Performance isn't drastically different from before which is disappointing. Client framerate has steadily improved but server tick rate is still far too low, 12 player servers with a tick rate hovering around 10fps doesn't cut it. To be perfectly honest this low gameplay rate, and all of the associated delay around it, feels like the biggest issue for NS2 right now. It is much much much improved over the alpha but the rate of improvement on this point hasn't been as great as expected, and NS2 isn't going to feel much like NS if it doesn't have *very* tight input. Right now the delays are so high that if you don't see a skulk across the room you can't react before you are dead, its just so distant from NS where you could miss the skulks until after they get a first bite on you and you could still own the skulk(s) with ease. That can't happen in NS2 right now. Maybe this isn't a big deal and you guys are waiting for the game asset stuff to be completed before you finally tackle it, but for players this really does feel like the biggest issue facing the game right now.
-The game is filling out and is feeling more and more complete. Seeing the game fill out with such consistently high visual production values is encouraging and when you guys get the tightness element down it is clear that the game is going to look great on a number of levels. The gameplay side of things is also encouraging- some of the more experimental gameplay concepts have been scaled back or adjusted to fit as the game comes together and I take this as a positive development.
Keep at it, it is coming together!
albeit on an empty server.
I'll summarize findings later.
But wanted to report a bug and an observation.
Minor Bug:
Commander UI seemed to be caching when i first clicked on it.
Nothing happened i clicked on all tabs...then it worked like a charm.
precache this before showing me the menu.
Bug:
I researched an ARC twice the doors opened nothing came out.
Observation:
I jumped on with a player who hadn't spinned it up in awhile.
He tried commanding.
He could not understand where on the map the resources were.
On the map and the mini-map they did not stand out much.
GREAT WORK.
Ah, how curious.
Here's a comparison from on to off.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/xNzN2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
You want to be pressing ctrl key not space key to drop from ceilings. Also don't evolve in the vents.
Anyways I experienced some problems with the marine comm not being able to build anything (For anyone that went in to give it a try also). Fades seem a bit to op? Only time will tell, maybe they want more teamwork? I dunno, Fades rip through ###### now. Uhmm, after a match being alien comm - when game ends you do not get put back into the starting room. j1, j2, rr do not work also in console; I had to leave/join server again.
I'm also loving the new cost for buildings. The higher cost & longer build times for hives, lower IP and RT costs are just what was needed. Phase gates look amazing too.
My only major complaint so far is that sometimes the game doesn't recognize I have two hives up, so I can't drop a crag unless I build a third. This happened twice in a row on summit when I took the east hive. Also, summit is far too large for the current infestation system. It takes so long to expand to the nearest res node without taking a second hive. I'm hoping the pustule system will allow longer distance between them in open areas.
I saw a robot factory and another structure next to it - no idea what that was. Haven't seen the ARC or portal things yet.
Bloom is generally excellent. I would prefer if it wasn't so strong in Alien areas...I might have to get used to that.
Can't say I noticed much difference in performance. Might be a bit smoother than before but still stutters/lags when going into new areas.
Will post screenshots in the screenshot thread very soon.
Thanks devs!
Skulks being able to kill marines again is fantastic!
I'm running q6600 core2quad 2.6ghz, 3 gigs ram, windows 32 bit, and nvidia gtx 460. I look forward to further performance increases! Great work. :)
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/X1jYs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
3) Need a bit more time in the "ethereal" zone to better choose when/where you're exiting to enable better tactics. This issue may get better once air control like NS1 is in.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wouldnt be needed if they just allowed the player to MOVE faster. its currently like walking.. feels really slow for something simulating a teleporting nightcrawler "blink". takes alot of time to cover ground on a marine currently. tweak this, and then you can keep the current allotted time the same for sake of appearing as a teleport etc. aka <u>skill based movement</u>
Thanks for the game that is being fabulous!
Good work team!
I'm happy :)
I agree
Excellent work UWE, and thank you for finally making the game playable for me!
It's an arms lab or whatever the marines use for upgrades.
I had a great couple of games just now. It seems like the aliens have the advantage after the latest update.
Here's some of my feedback:
* Server tickrate sometimes drops down to 5 or less when there is lots going on. This is really poor and I think improving this would have a big impact on performance. (In general my FPS is okay)
* Animations are clunky and I think this is one of the reasons the game feels jittery. I think in general if the hit-reg and animations were polished a bit more the game would be a lot more satisfying to play.
* IMO marine walking speed is too slow and (for the moment at least) the backwards walking penalty is not necessary. When playing as marine I always feel really clunky and slow. I think it would be better to increase both the marine speed and alien speed if you wanted to keep the ratio the same.
* As the fade you should be able to use WASD to control yourself in blink. This would enable blinking backwards and allow you to orientate yourself around your target easier.
* I think it would be better if the lerk flying was a little easier to use. I'd be better if by holding space you could remain at the same height in the air. This would allow smooth flying through corridors with you only needing to tap space or let it go to adjust your height accordingly.
Keep up the good work. The game is looking awesome.
The robotics factory and arms labs can cause passing marines to get stuck and they have to kill themselves. Looking good though. Love the phasegates.
There was a huge chunk of Script Error lines (thousands of them), sorry I can't copy and paste it here don't have access from my work pc.
Anyone else getting these?
Edit: Oh just got access allowed :)
example-
Script Error: Entity:SetOrigin called with bad values (-9510.066406 -10002.105469 -7073.810547)
lua/ScriptActor.lua:155
SetCoords [C]:-1
lua/Weapons/Projectile_Server.lua:81
Script Error: Entity:SetOrigin called with bad values (-9510.884766 -10002.964844 -7074.418945)
lua/ScriptActor.lua:155
SetCoords [C]:-1
lua/Weapons/Projectile_Server.lua:81
Script Error: Entity:SetOrigin called with bad values (-9511.703125 -10003.824219 -7075.027344)
lua/ScriptActor.lua:155
SetCoords [C]:-1
The robotics factory and arms labs can cause passing marines to get stuck and they have to kill themselves. Looking good though. Love the phasegates.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gah, I'm jealous of your long games. Its been a while since I've had an interesting one that lasted a while. These short ones are just like teasing. =/ Not knocking your preference, but I just love the 1 and 2 hr games. Really sucks you in, immersion. Being thrown back to the RR constantly after short games is annoying. Not enough time to employ good, fun strategy.
I'm also loving the new cost for buildings. The higher cost & longer build times for hives, lower IP and RT costs are just what was needed. Phase gates look amazing too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Totally Agree.
The skulk seems to finally be able to bring the pain to the marines. The New Fade Blink is just amazing and the fade is finally able to break the stalemates we had in 177.
Alien upgrades seem to come really to quickly now, I was able to place a few craigs and whips and had all the alien upgrades done in no time flat, gave us a huge advantage right off the bat. Not sure if there should be a way to limit it, or tie it to hives???
To everyone who thinks the aliens are really overpowered, just give it a bit of time, give your self a chance to get use to the new gameplay and also dont forget that Jet packs and exo are on the way as well as mini guns, and rail guns.
178 is the best patch to date IMO
Log files will be running into hundreds of megs soon! :(
It also seems to disappear into walls..
Please address the pathing issues asap!
HOLY ###### WHAT A GREAT RELEASE!