Cerberi
Vladimir Van Vodka
Sexy Beast Join Date: 2010-07-30 Member: 73364Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Sexy Beast Join Date: 2010-07-30 Member: 73364Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">marine munching maw!</div><div align='center'><img src="http://i50.tinypic.com/10nz4ig.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>
<div align='center'><!--sizeo:2--><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Marine Munching Maw!</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(Isn't a picky eater.)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></div>
<div align='center'><img src="http://i48.tinypic.com/2vuykva.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>
<!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Cerberi </b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> would be growable alien support traps, similar in size to an infantry portal or egg, and placed by the alien commander directly on floor infestation, after a couple of seconds of growth they activate; these would be immobile barely visible "<i>Bear-Traps</i>" that would emerge and grapple by biting a passing marine's feet and not letting go, ensnaring and immobilizing him, slowly chewing him to death, <i>however</i>, they can be destroyed by any weapon, and the captured marine would have his arms completely free to destroy it by many means... <i>Unless</i>... There's another threat waiting nearby...
<b>Please keep reading <i>below</i> for Theoretic Statistics, Abilities, General Points, <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->Pros<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->, <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Cons<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> and <!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->Why<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.</b>
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Theoretic Stats</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
_______________________________________________________________
<!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Cerberi:</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<b>Health:</b> ~300
<b>Armor:</b> ~100 <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(health and armor together should not exceed the total damage of a full rifle clip. HP≤500)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<b>Build Cost:</b> ~3 Team Resources <img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/images/c/ce/Icon_team_resource_neutral.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Build Time:</b> ~3-6 seconds
<b>Prerequisite:</b> Researchable at Hive <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(maybe 2 Hives? could be tied to shades or shifts?)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Theoretic Abilities</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
_______________________________________________________________
<b>"Consume" </b>
* <b>Radius:</b> ~1-2 meter diameter <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(marines should generally have to walk over it.)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
* <b>Duration:</b> ∞ <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(Indefinite, until either Cerberus or Target is destroyed)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
* <b> Damage:</b> ~35
* <b>Damage Type:</b> Heavy
* <b>Rate of Fire:</b> 0.8
* <b>Bites per Salve:</b> 1
* <b>Description:</b> Bites and clings onto a single marine/exo's feet, causing immobility and damage over time, <b>also applies full Parasite effect</b> <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(gives more incentive for aliens to acknowledge and attack the recently or currently ensnared marine)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<b>"Retract"</b>
* <b>Description:</b> Retracts into it's default inconspicuous closed form, barely visible among infestation, also <b>applies Shock Absorb passively</b>.
<b>"Shock Absorb"</b>
* <b>Damage to health threshold:</b> 50 <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(possibly higher? ~100? shotguns need to be effective, should only affect grenades.)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
* <b>Description:</b> The Cerberus can absorb massive damage and reduce it to set amount. Shock absorb allows Cerberi to be extra resilient against explosives.
<b>Note:</b> <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->would take approx 3.2 seconds to kill a marine at T0 armor, 4 at T1/T2, 4.8 at T3, would take 7.2 seconds for T0 armor Exo, 9.6 at T1, 11.2 at T2, 13.6 at T3<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i>side note: <u>4 seconds is actually a long time in combat situations.</u></i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<img src="http://i50.tinypic.com/11c624j.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i48.tinypic.com/10p96py.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>+ Pros</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#008000--><span style="color:#008000"><!--/coloro-->+Can be mutated onto any infestation at any time.
+The Cerberi is barely visible when retracted and inactive.
+Is effectively concealed out in the open, or even better at long distances.
+Does not make any movement or sounds while retracted and inactive.
+Extremely well hidden in low light conditions
+Extremely effective in combination with all Shade abilities.
+Extremely effective in combination with Whips and Hydras.
+Quite effective in chaotic or crowded combat situations.
+Quite effective as an Ambush/Deterrent/Support Mechanism.
+Is not a single use structure, and can be reused infinitely given it is not destroyed by marine forces.
+Can be healed by Gorges, Crags and any other alien health source.
+Regenerates health passively over time. (since it's an alien structure.)
+Inexpensive to produce, <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(~3 team resources.)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
+Inconspicuously builds/grows until ready.
+Relatively quick build/growth time. <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(~3-6 seconds)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
+Relatively small and may be clustered to form large groups that may not be jumped over.
+Deters lone wolf/Rambo/Unvigilent marines that run into infested rooms unprepared.
+Even in death, forces marines to lose ammunition and reload to destroy it.
+Is not a picky eater.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>- Cons</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->-Can easily be spotted and damaged if set on fire by a flamethrower.
-Can easily be spotted and damaged if infestation recedes around it
-Can easily be spotted if revealed by an observatory scan.
-More noticeable in brightly lit rooms.
-Can be easily disposed of at range if ever spotted.
-Can be jumped over if ever spotted.
-Victims can damage the Cerberi even while immobilized.
-Can be destroyed with a single rifle clip.
-Can only affect a single marine/exo or construction at a time.
-Can not affect floating/flying enemies, as it is imbedded into the ground.
-Jetpacks may make this menace obsolete.
-Small area of effect, just two to three feet diameter from its center point, marines need to walk onto it.
-Permanent Locations of Cerberi are usually revealed after a marine has encountered one.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>* Additional Information</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
*Shade abilities are very complementary to Cerberi Mechanics:
Ink Cloud may lead a marine into it.
Cloak makes it 100% invisible.
Hallucinations may create "dud" Cerberi that marines still waste time to try and avoid or destroy.
*Grenades are ineffective against Cerberi, as the Cerberus will ignore it's presence, and take little damage from them while retracted.
*The best, and most effective counter to Cerberi is flamethrower sweeping or cyst destruction, as it reveals and damages them.
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(the thought behind this may force marines to think about flamethrower sweeping or destroying cysts before rushing on in or going off alone.)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
-<i>No</i>, I did not get the idea from HL2's Barnacle or any other Game/Movie reference, I got it from plain and simple bear traps; The idea of laying a non lethal trap for something, then coming back to finish it off is what spawned the initial concept of the Cerberus.
-No, It <b>is</b> asymmetric from Frontiersmen's Mines because:
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->It can not<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> instantly kill: it's designed to ensnare and cause damage over time, it can only kill you if you are in combat, already heavily damaged or <b>completely ignorant & alone</b> <i><!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(then frankly, you deserve to die from it.)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></i> It can only affect a single unit at a time, It's ground based and cannot be placed on or in vents, It can only be placed on infestation, It possibly has a smaller radius of effect, It's counter-able by every marine unit with little effort if noticed <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(all of their firearms have range capability)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->, It requires player or offensive structure presence and effort to be effective. <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->On the plus side<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->; It's dropped by the alien commander instead of player units, It can be dropped at any time; making it an omnipresent threat when venturing on infestation, It's Far less noticeable then mines, It's less expensive then mines, It can be reused, It can be healed, It can help scout out marines with it's parasite and hive sight effects... Etc.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Design Goal:</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
The entire concept of the Cerberus suggestion is designed with <b>support</b> and ambush in mind, these traps are not designed to be effective <i>without</i> an alien player presence, it emphasizes the aliens and their direct connection with environmental gameplay; taking advantage of it. ex: Aliens may lead marines into these traps, they may form local ambush points, they may be dropped in the thick of battle, as marines may not notice them growing beneath their feet as they slay Kharaa, they may be deployed between marines and aliens, allowing your wounded teammates to escape as the marines are deterred by the Cerberi, etc etc. It would lead marines to focus more on environmental hazards, as the alien turf is <i>not</i> their friendly neighborhood. It's alive, it's vicious, <i>it's out to get them</i>. It also gives the Alien Commander more viable tactics for defense and support, which most players would argue Khammanding is rather lackluster currently: The synergy between Khammander, Cerberi and Alien Players is good enough for it to be officially implemented, <b>in one form or another</b>, in my honest opinion.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Why?</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Since the traps thread I read a while ago, I thought about this idea of a gaping maw that could be placed or "mutated" by the alien commander on infestation, similar to a bear-trap in function.
Later on, I was observing when the 6/13/2011 Design Decision log was being written in real time by Charlie, and when I read about the Alien commander differing from the Marine commander by affecting more the environment then the Alien players themselves, I felt welcomed to write this idea that was floating in my head for a while, I think that the Cerberi would be something that the developers would be searching for when it comes to the design goals they wrote in the design decision log: It could potentially create a fun, viable obstacle and gameplay mechanic that promotes team-play cooperation and vigilance on both Sides of the coin, this, coupled with the fact that it makes the alien environment feel generally more menacing, unwelcoming, dynamic and "alive".
<b>Name:</b>
"Cerberi", as with "Hydras" fit perfectly together as ancient Greek mythological name references ingame, and also Cerberi fits the description of a foul ferocious insatiable beast that is cursed to guard the gates of hell for all eternity:
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->"Greek myth: a dog, usually represented as having three heads, that guarded <i>the entrance to Hell</i>"
Cerberus –noun, plural: -ber·us·es, -ber·i
hence: "Cerberi"<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Credits:
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Wiltdog for the Cerberus Hive Sight/Parasite Idea
<!--quoteo(post=1852588:date=Jun 14 2011, 06:29 PM:name=Wiltdog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wiltdog @ Jun 14 2011, 06:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852588"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[...] The teamwork aspect behind this idea is fantastic. One marine gets stuck and maybe he can glow a different color through the walls, which acts like a homing beacon for all nearby skulks. Im even imagining it from the marines perspective. Get stuck/ "oh ######." [...]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->PsympleJester for the cool "All the maw to kill you with" slogan/pun.<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--quoteo(post=1998564:date=Oct 27 2012, 10:21 PM:name=PsympleJester)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsympleJester @ Oct 27 2012, 10:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1998564"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src="http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q542/PsympleJester/Allthemawtokillyouwith_zps56ca2310.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Here's some extra images for visual comprehension and concept of what it may look similar to;
pictures of "The Thing"â„¢ from the 1938 novella "<i>Who goes there?</i>" and the "Sarlacc"â„¢ from the <i>Star-Wars</i> franchise:
<img src="http://blastr.com/assets_c/2010/04/BigMouthThing-thumb-330x177-36686.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<i>''Om Nom Nom Nom!''</i>
<img src="http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2010/089/reviews/516675_20100331_embed001.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<div align='center'><!--sizeo:2--><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Marine Munching Maw!</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(Isn't a picky eater.)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></div>
<div align='center'><img src="http://i48.tinypic.com/2vuykva.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>
<!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Cerberi </b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> would be growable alien support traps, similar in size to an infantry portal or egg, and placed by the alien commander directly on floor infestation, after a couple of seconds of growth they activate; these would be immobile barely visible "<i>Bear-Traps</i>" that would emerge and grapple by biting a passing marine's feet and not letting go, ensnaring and immobilizing him, slowly chewing him to death, <i>however</i>, they can be destroyed by any weapon, and the captured marine would have his arms completely free to destroy it by many means... <i>Unless</i>... There's another threat waiting nearby...
<b>Please keep reading <i>below</i> for Theoretic Statistics, Abilities, General Points, <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->Pros<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->, <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Cons<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> and <!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->Why<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.</b>
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Theoretic Stats</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
_______________________________________________________________
<!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Cerberi:</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<b>Health:</b> ~300
<b>Armor:</b> ~100 <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(health and armor together should not exceed the total damage of a full rifle clip. HP≤500)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<b>Build Cost:</b> ~3 Team Resources <img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/images/c/ce/Icon_team_resource_neutral.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Build Time:</b> ~3-6 seconds
<b>Prerequisite:</b> Researchable at Hive <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(maybe 2 Hives? could be tied to shades or shifts?)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Theoretic Abilities</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
_______________________________________________________________
<b>"Consume" </b>
* <b>Radius:</b> ~1-2 meter diameter <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(marines should generally have to walk over it.)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
* <b>Duration:</b> ∞ <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(Indefinite, until either Cerberus or Target is destroyed)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
* <b> Damage:</b> ~35
* <b>Damage Type:</b> Heavy
* <b>Rate of Fire:</b> 0.8
* <b>Bites per Salve:</b> 1
* <b>Description:</b> Bites and clings onto a single marine/exo's feet, causing immobility and damage over time, <b>also applies full Parasite effect</b> <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(gives more incentive for aliens to acknowledge and attack the recently or currently ensnared marine)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<b>"Retract"</b>
* <b>Description:</b> Retracts into it's default inconspicuous closed form, barely visible among infestation, also <b>applies Shock Absorb passively</b>.
<b>"Shock Absorb"</b>
* <b>Damage to health threshold:</b> 50 <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(possibly higher? ~100? shotguns need to be effective, should only affect grenades.)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
* <b>Description:</b> The Cerberus can absorb massive damage and reduce it to set amount. Shock absorb allows Cerberi to be extra resilient against explosives.
<b>Note:</b> <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->would take approx 3.2 seconds to kill a marine at T0 armor, 4 at T1/T2, 4.8 at T3, would take 7.2 seconds for T0 armor Exo, 9.6 at T1, 11.2 at T2, 13.6 at T3<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i>side note: <u>4 seconds is actually a long time in combat situations.</u></i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<img src="http://i50.tinypic.com/11c624j.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i48.tinypic.com/10p96py.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>+ Pros</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#008000--><span style="color:#008000"><!--/coloro-->+Can be mutated onto any infestation at any time.
+The Cerberi is barely visible when retracted and inactive.
+Is effectively concealed out in the open, or even better at long distances.
+Does not make any movement or sounds while retracted and inactive.
+Extremely well hidden in low light conditions
+Extremely effective in combination with all Shade abilities.
+Extremely effective in combination with Whips and Hydras.
+Quite effective in chaotic or crowded combat situations.
+Quite effective as an Ambush/Deterrent/Support Mechanism.
+Is not a single use structure, and can be reused infinitely given it is not destroyed by marine forces.
+Can be healed by Gorges, Crags and any other alien health source.
+Regenerates health passively over time. (since it's an alien structure.)
+Inexpensive to produce, <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(~3 team resources.)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
+Inconspicuously builds/grows until ready.
+Relatively quick build/growth time. <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(~3-6 seconds)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
+Relatively small and may be clustered to form large groups that may not be jumped over.
+Deters lone wolf/Rambo/Unvigilent marines that run into infested rooms unprepared.
+Even in death, forces marines to lose ammunition and reload to destroy it.
+Is not a picky eater.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>- Cons</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->-Can easily be spotted and damaged if set on fire by a flamethrower.
-Can easily be spotted and damaged if infestation recedes around it
-Can easily be spotted if revealed by an observatory scan.
-More noticeable in brightly lit rooms.
-Can be easily disposed of at range if ever spotted.
-Can be jumped over if ever spotted.
-Victims can damage the Cerberi even while immobilized.
-Can be destroyed with a single rifle clip.
-Can only affect a single marine/exo or construction at a time.
-Can not affect floating/flying enemies, as it is imbedded into the ground.
-Jetpacks may make this menace obsolete.
-Small area of effect, just two to three feet diameter from its center point, marines need to walk onto it.
-Permanent Locations of Cerberi are usually revealed after a marine has encountered one.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>* Additional Information</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
*Shade abilities are very complementary to Cerberi Mechanics:
Ink Cloud may lead a marine into it.
Cloak makes it 100% invisible.
Hallucinations may create "dud" Cerberi that marines still waste time to try and avoid or destroy.
*Grenades are ineffective against Cerberi, as the Cerberus will ignore it's presence, and take little damage from them while retracted.
*The best, and most effective counter to Cerberi is flamethrower sweeping or cyst destruction, as it reveals and damages them.
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(the thought behind this may force marines to think about flamethrower sweeping or destroying cysts before rushing on in or going off alone.)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
-<i>No</i>, I did not get the idea from HL2's Barnacle or any other Game/Movie reference, I got it from plain and simple bear traps; The idea of laying a non lethal trap for something, then coming back to finish it off is what spawned the initial concept of the Cerberus.
-No, It <b>is</b> asymmetric from Frontiersmen's Mines because:
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->It can not<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> instantly kill: it's designed to ensnare and cause damage over time, it can only kill you if you are in combat, already heavily damaged or <b>completely ignorant & alone</b> <i><!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(then frankly, you deserve to die from it.)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></i> It can only affect a single unit at a time, It's ground based and cannot be placed on or in vents, It can only be placed on infestation, It possibly has a smaller radius of effect, It's counter-able by every marine unit with little effort if noticed <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(all of their firearms have range capability)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->, It requires player or offensive structure presence and effort to be effective. <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->On the plus side<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->; It's dropped by the alien commander instead of player units, It can be dropped at any time; making it an omnipresent threat when venturing on infestation, It's Far less noticeable then mines, It's less expensive then mines, It can be reused, It can be healed, It can help scout out marines with it's parasite and hive sight effects... Etc.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Design Goal:</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
The entire concept of the Cerberus suggestion is designed with <b>support</b> and ambush in mind, these traps are not designed to be effective <i>without</i> an alien player presence, it emphasizes the aliens and their direct connection with environmental gameplay; taking advantage of it. ex: Aliens may lead marines into these traps, they may form local ambush points, they may be dropped in the thick of battle, as marines may not notice them growing beneath their feet as they slay Kharaa, they may be deployed between marines and aliens, allowing your wounded teammates to escape as the marines are deterred by the Cerberi, etc etc. It would lead marines to focus more on environmental hazards, as the alien turf is <i>not</i> their friendly neighborhood. It's alive, it's vicious, <i>it's out to get them</i>. It also gives the Alien Commander more viable tactics for defense and support, which most players would argue Khammanding is rather lackluster currently: The synergy between Khammander, Cerberi and Alien Players is good enough for it to be officially implemented, <b>in one form or another</b>, in my honest opinion.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Why?</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Since the traps thread I read a while ago, I thought about this idea of a gaping maw that could be placed or "mutated" by the alien commander on infestation, similar to a bear-trap in function.
Later on, I was observing when the 6/13/2011 Design Decision log was being written in real time by Charlie, and when I read about the Alien commander differing from the Marine commander by affecting more the environment then the Alien players themselves, I felt welcomed to write this idea that was floating in my head for a while, I think that the Cerberi would be something that the developers would be searching for when it comes to the design goals they wrote in the design decision log: It could potentially create a fun, viable obstacle and gameplay mechanic that promotes team-play cooperation and vigilance on both Sides of the coin, this, coupled with the fact that it makes the alien environment feel generally more menacing, unwelcoming, dynamic and "alive".
<b>Name:</b>
"Cerberi", as with "Hydras" fit perfectly together as ancient Greek mythological name references ingame, and also Cerberi fits the description of a foul ferocious insatiable beast that is cursed to guard the gates of hell for all eternity:
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->"Greek myth: a dog, usually represented as having three heads, that guarded <i>the entrance to Hell</i>"
Cerberus –noun, plural: -ber·us·es, -ber·i
hence: "Cerberi"<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Credits:
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Wiltdog for the Cerberus Hive Sight/Parasite Idea
<!--quoteo(post=1852588:date=Jun 14 2011, 06:29 PM:name=Wiltdog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wiltdog @ Jun 14 2011, 06:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852588"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[...] The teamwork aspect behind this idea is fantastic. One marine gets stuck and maybe he can glow a different color through the walls, which acts like a homing beacon for all nearby skulks. Im even imagining it from the marines perspective. Get stuck/ "oh ######." [...]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->PsympleJester for the cool "All the maw to kill you with" slogan/pun.<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--quoteo(post=1998564:date=Oct 27 2012, 10:21 PM:name=PsympleJester)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsympleJester @ Oct 27 2012, 10:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1998564"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src="http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q542/PsympleJester/Allthemawtokillyouwith_zps56ca2310.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Here's some extra images for visual comprehension and concept of what it may look similar to;
pictures of "The Thing"â„¢ from the 1938 novella "<i>Who goes there?</i>" and the "Sarlacc"â„¢ from the <i>Star-Wars</i> franchise:
<img src="http://blastr.com/assets_c/2010/04/BigMouthThing-thumb-330x177-36686.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<i>''Om Nom Nom Nom!''</i>
<img src="http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2010/089/reviews/516675_20100331_embed001.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Comments
Win, win, win.
Makes observation far more important and fits right in with alien gameplay.
However, there should definitely be a limit to how many can be spawned.
Perhaps creep pustules or nodes or whatever would upgrade into them.
EDIT: Maybe any successful kills would provide the Alien team with a good bit of resources (cause, you know, it did eat the Marine).
And I can see it fitting in quite well, it would have to be researched though and there can only be so many within a certain range.
Other than that I can see it as a great addition to the game, assuming spamming is limited.
It really seems like a throwback to a previous age of alien lifeforms - likely the first form the bacteria ever really collected itself into (besides the creep).
Plus The Thing is one of the greatest movies. Ever.
What do people think of this having another use/effect as a fox hole/small burrow? For the alien team of course.
Only allowing small life forms to enter the crevice and be <i>partially</i> shielded with reduced profile. Maybe gorges and skulks only <b>(or only gorges.....gorge nest ?!)</b>
steadily but surely pulling them in like the "smoker" from "Left 4 Dead", or the "barnacle" from the "Half life" series. An unlucky, terrified marine being dragged towards his doom, <b>he can't fire back, that window of opportunity is gone. His only chance of escape is if his fellow comrades free him.</b>
(...)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Awesome idea, gives me a whole ''horror vibe'' when I read it, as much as I love horror and cinematic/immersive experiences, and I understand where your coming from, but the problem with this is that it would take away a player's control! Which is very bad when it comes to gameplay; this would frustrate players and make them feel like if they can't do anything, which is sadly the case, as much as I love teamplay and understand that it might counter the tendrils, it still does; in effect remove a players control.
However, I <b>love</b> the idea of the tendrils latching onto you and pulling you to the all eating maw, similar to the Sarlaccâ„¢. If this where ever implemented it should never remove the marine's ability to defend himself from it by shooting it, it could be a researchable upgrade that increases the Cerberi's range of effect, doubling it, but if you are latched by the tendrils that erupt form the infestation, you would not take damage, only until you are dragged into the mouth where your toes are given a nice pedicure.
This upgrade could basically be designed to counter marines ignoring the Cerberi by jumping over it, as the area of effect would be large enough to ensnare them when they land on the other side or in mid-flight, probably around a 2 meter radius instead of 1.
"YOU MUST NEVER REMOVE A PERSON'S ABILITY TO MOVE" or something along those lines. That is why devour is not in the game.
Edit: Just had a short read of Vladamir's post. He also says what I just said.
but sh*t you know what else might be a cool addition along with this?
is those barnicle things from half life 1, remember they had those long tongues hanging out of them and they suck you in and eat your head off.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPfk-GfRaT0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPfk-GfRaT0</a>
I think that being allowed to damage it will compensate quite a bit for being stuck for a few seconds.
The teamwork aspect behind this idea is fantastic. One marine gets stuck and maybe he can glow a different color through the walls, which acts like a homing beacon for all nearby skulks. Im even imagining it from the marines perspective. Get stuck/ "oh ######." ORRR they could use it as a trap. Have one guy purposely get snared while 2 guys with shottys are waiting, hiding. Then when the skulks and other vultures come to pick the marine off, they're met with a nice facefull of buckshot.
1) increase the damage so that once a marine is finally dragged into the <i></i> Maw of the abyss<i></i>, he ins't sat there waiting for the cerberi to kill him (4-6 hits), if it's incapacitating marines then you have to balance the amount of time spent dragging him in, with time spent chewing his head off. what was <i></i> really<i></i> annoying with the smoker from left 4 dead was that he took an <b></b>eternity<b></b> to kill you.
2) Allow ensnared marines a short window of time to shoot back (just to be fair), however i don't think it would be very balanced if the marine could attack it at his leisure, this would make it noneffective, perhaps ensnared marines can have the option to brake free, like a grappling mechanic. A player can brake free by himself but at the cost of valuable time and health.
3) make it relatively weak (not too weak!) in terms of how much damage it can take. One rifle magazine maybe, so that once a fellow marine dose come to the rescue, the victim is quickly freed.
Basically, an ensnared marine is taken out of play but for only 10-20 seconds at the most, what do you think?
I always thought the aliens needed something to slow down marines. However, since infestation might effectively prevent marine sprint, I wasn't going to suggest something yet. I always hated how marines could just run past a forest of hydras and whips back to the crag... and quickly sg it to death. With cat packs, this could still happen however, so this might be a good extra counter. Plus keeping the marines on their toes (ha) is always a good thing.
I would allow the player to kill it, but maybe introduce a 10 sec movement debuff afterwards. The thing just almost bite off your leg.
1) increase the damage so that once a marine is finally dragged into the <i></i> Maw of the abyss<i></i>, he ins't sat there waiting for the cerberi to kill him (4-6 hits), if it's incapacitating marines then you have to balance the amount of time spent dragging him in, with time spent chewing his head off. what was <i></i> really<i></i> annoying with the smoker from left 4 dead was that he took an <b></b>eternity<b></b> to kill you.
2) Allow ensnared marines a short window of time to shoot back (just to be fair), however i don't think it would be very balanced if the marine could attack it at his leisure, this would make it noneffective, perhaps ensnared marines can have the option to brake free, like a grappling mechanic. <b>A player can brake free by himself but at the cost of valuable time and health.</b>
3) make it relatively weak (not too weak!) in terms of how much damage it can take. One rifle magazine maybe, so that once a fellow marine dose come to the rescue, the victim is quickly freed.
<b>Basically, an ensnared marine is taken out of play but for only 10-20 seconds at the most, what do you think?</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1852588:date=Jun 14 2011, 07:29 PM:name=Wiltdog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wiltdog @ Jun 14 2011, 07:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852588"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[...]
The teamwork aspect behind this idea is fantastic. One marine gets stuck and maybe he can glow a different color through the walls, which acts like a homing beacon for all nearby skulks. Im even imagining it from the marines perspective. Get stuck/ "oh ######." ORRR they could use it as a trap. Have one guy purposely get snared while 2 guys with shottys are waiting, hiding. Then when the skulks and other vultures come to pick the marine off, they're met with a nice facefull of buckshot.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You guys nailed it.
That's basically the premise of the Cerberi
humpedy bump bump!
69 FTW.
And then barnacles are the trap from above which eventually suck marines in and do actually kill them if they get all the way up without reacting in time?
The Cerberi isn't a stolen idea, it's just heavily inspired by one ;)
And then barnacles are the trap from above which eventually suck marines in and do actually kill them if they get all the way up without reacting in time?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1852918:date=Jun 15 2011, 01:40 PM:name=subshadow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (subshadow @ Jun 15 2011, 01:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852918"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->barnacles would be sooooo cool, and really fit NS2. The problem is: it's stolen and not original<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As cool as ''Barnacles'', or any conceptual creature with a similar effect would be in NS2; I mean, its a great idea, it could even potentially replace the gameplay elements of the Cerberi, create similar horror elements and team tactics, etc etc.
The entire problem of implementation resides in the fact that it's attached to the ceiling, which makes it impossible for <i>any</i> commander to place them effectively, or any Gorge for that fact, as commanders have no ceiling surface to place them, since they have an overhead view, and Gorges can not even reach the ceiling, let alone place one. This, coupled with the fact that the barnacle suggestion is rather obvious and easily spotted, less effective all in all and impossible to place.
<!--quoteo(post=1852955:date=Jun 15 2011, 04:35 PM:name=SomeMiceDrinkingTea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SomeMiceDrinkingTea @ Jun 15 2011, 04:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852955"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The Cerberi isn't a stolen idea, it's just heavily inspired by one ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think he was actually referring to Barnaclesâ„¢ idea that <i>assbda</i> himself mentioned, not the Cerberi suggestion
And yes, I do own the orange box, I know what Barnaclesâ„¢ are and their mechanics, just to make this clear in attempt to avoid confusion.
Im going to be posting a hand drawn picture of what I think Cerberi should look like in a few hours when I get back home to scan the damn thing.
I thought that a barnacle could be something a gorge shoots at the ceiling and it sticks and eventually grows into a barnacle. Obviously there will be limits and yeah theyre are easy to spot as marines. And its just to slow the whole process of advancing down, Just so we're not just stuck with hydras and what not.
(and all they need to do is rename it and give it a new look to prevent the *stolen* issue. Everything is stolen nowadays, its just remixed)
But when i think of aliens and such its the kind of environment they need, like in the movies and sh*t.
Marines should feel frightened to venture into alien territory, even in groups. Thats the kind of feel im hoping for once its all finished
Video game companies make good money shamelessly using good ideas from other games (and mods). Plus NS owes itself to half-life. I see nothing wrong reminding people of that every so often :).
Maybe allow both comms and gorges to place cerberi. If a gorge places a cerberi on the ceiling it acts as a "barnacle". If placed on the floor it acts as a "land mine" (as VVV's idea).
This means only gorges can place the barnacle version.
Or
primary fire => "land mine"; can only be placed on floors
alt fire => "barnacle"; can only be placed (shot at) on ceilings
Disallow to place either on the wall...might get confusing with the geometry of some maps.
This way UWE only has to make one new model for essentially 2 new structures.
Plus it expands the gorge's available options, as it really should do more than just build hydras (cause it used to build everything).
And yes, I do own the orange box, I know what Barnaclesâ„¢ are and their mechanics, just to make this clear in attempt to avoid confusion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought <b></b>assbda<b></b> envisioned the Cerberi to be very similar to the barnacle and that he was showing concern because of it's similarities. Now i realise he wasn't, i was only trying to be clever :(
Good <i><u>constructive suggestion</u></i> there. Love it.
<!--quoteo(post=1853080:date=Jun 16 2011, 12:40 AM:name=SomeMiceDrinkingTea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SomeMiceDrinkingTea @ Jun 16 2011, 12:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1853080"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I thought <b></b>assbda<b></b> envisioned the Cerberi to be very similar to the barnacle and that he was showing concern because of it's similarities. Now i realise he wasn't, i was only trying to be clever :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't see why anything you said would be frowned upon, nor why you would feel bad about it being said?
I do see the striking resemblance between the Barnacles and Cerberi, however, I did not gain inspiration from them, the thought of barnacles never crossed my mind, I thought more of a trapper's beartrap concept, which forces the trapper to come back and finish off the trapped beast, then worked my way on from there to implement something similar.
Anyways, I'm seriously thinking that I'm starting to dislike more and more the concept of the barnacle, it being hung up and whatnot, people keep suggesting ways in which it may work, which is fine I guess, but since my idea is to have a stealthy trap that tries and promote team-play and direct commander control of the environment; it somewhat irates me that all barnacle implementation suggestions have not touched this, since some suggested giving gorges abilities to spit out a barnacle removes the commander's ability to place them, and having a marine immobile hanged on the ceiling does not allow for much team-play since it is cumbersome to attack the ensnared marine, and having a tongue or tentacle that hangs in plain view is not really stealthy, this coupled with the fact that barnacles would look terrible in commander view, just floating there, obscuring your important view.
In my opinion, it just seems pointless and overly complicated to create something that is even stated as a direct copy of something else done before, and who's core mechanics I find are less agreeable then the Cerberi.