Onos devour revised
SomeMiceDrinkingTea
Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103818Members
Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103818Members
<div class="IPBDescription">New and improved.</div>I have been wondering that maybe the Onos could have his devour ability returned to him for natural selection 2. As far as i'm aware, this ability is not being included due to how frustrating it is for the marine player who is devoured. The way it worked in Natural selection 1 was a bit like this, Onos eats marine, marine is then forced to wait until completely killed, marine player gets frustrated and starts to cry because he can't wait ten seconds, devour is then removed, sad face. To get around the problem of impatient players, I propose that the overall game mechanics are changed so that instead of the marine waiting ten second to die and respawn, he is killed instantly. Yes i know what your thinking, "that's a terrible idea, who the hell would give the Onos (or any unit) a one hit kill ability, it's just too overpowered". Well to balance this, i would imagine it taking up ALOT of adrenaline and having a long recharge rate, meaning that an Onos that performs this move cannot attack straight away afterwards and has to back off a bit. This move could also slow the Onos down, and his health could recharge at 10 health per second instead of 15 (though this last aspect could be balanced out with a longer digesting time). If it took 10 seconds for a marine to die and an Onos recived 15 health per second, that's 150 health points out of 950, if the Onos only gains 10 health per second but it takes 20 seconds for the Onos to digest the marine (the marine dying and respawning instantly of course) then that's 200 health points out of 950. Tell me if and why you might like or dislike this idea and post your own ideas on other unique abilities the Onos could have. If there is already a thread on this subject then i'm sorry.
Comments
I'd prefer you just give the trapped marine a way to cut his way out with a success being more dependent on what health level the onos was at. IE Lets say an onos eats a marine while he's at 75% or more. Alone, the marine will die before he cuts his way out, killing the onos. Lets say that same marine had another friend dumping bullets into the onos, then the marine would probably cut his way out/kill the onos before he was digested. This means that even an onos at 100% health couldn't repeatedly cheap shot marines by running in, eating one, and running out to wait for a recharge (as per your idea) because he would be getting badly injured each time. If he eats one, then goes down to 50% HP, he can't eat another, they will cut their way out, killing him, before he finishes. In most games I've seen time delays don't make for much balance in the eyes of the recieving end, people always want to be able to do something, that's the main issue.
stick around these forums long enough and you'll realize that realism isn't a valid argument.
Making devour an instant kill dosn't help in the slightest because now onos' can blindly run in and one hit a marine without fear of dying after wards.
The original devour would allow fellow marines to rescue the devoured victim if the onos was killed in time. This made devour a much more skill oriented attack that required planning and execution to get away after devouring.
If the reason devour isn't going to make a comeback is because people cant wait an extra 10seconds to spawn then the most logical solution would be to have the respawn timer trigger the moment someone is inside an onos. Now, instead of a free view camera when they die they are stuck looking at the innards of a giant space rhino. If the devoured marine happens to be saved before they are fully devoured then the next person in que is spawned.
Personally I like the extra spawn time, it makes devouring and getting devoured that much more meaningful >:]
Maybe it can unhinge its jaws like a snake.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not a carnivorous animal,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh, says who? It's not a "space rhino" its a " hulking alien monstrosity that kills marines."
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and it's mouth is too small for devour to make sense anyway. And that's totally disregarding the fact that it was a questionable gameplay decision in the first place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's no reason an onos couldn't eat a marine and claiming its some kind of herbivorous space rhinocerous instead of an alien creature designed for killing hasn't added much to why it shouldn't be able to eat folks.
<!--quoteo(post=1857820:date=Jul 3 2011, 03:54 PM:name=Dank McShwagger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dank McShwagger @ Jul 3 2011, 03:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857820"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The original devour would allow fellow marines to rescue the devoured victim if the onos was killed in time. This made devour a much more skill oriented attack that required planning and execution to get away after devouring.
If the reason devour isn't going to make a comeback is because people cant wait an extra 10seconds to spawn then the most logical solution would be to have the respawn timer trigger the moment someone is inside an onos. Now, instead of a free view camera when they die they are stuck looking at the innards of a giant space rhino. If the devoured marine happens to be saved before they are fully devoured then the next person in que is spawned.
Personally I like the extra spawn time, it makes devouring and getting devoured that much more meaningful >:]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I also think devour is a really neat mechanic. How many games can you actually get eaten in? In any case, I suggested the "hack your way out of it" so that its not a ten second "time out" mechanic. You can do damage to the onos from inside, but will need outside help or an already weakened onos to survive. You could still be saved externally, it just means you've got more stuff to do while being eaten.
Marine has 5 seconds to be saved
Marine Dies
Onos still must digest dead body acting as a long cooldown.
something to do while inside the onos should keep the ADD children quite so I'm in favor of that.
<!--quoteo(post=1857946:date=Jul 4 2011, 02:54 PM:name=wulf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wulf @ Jul 4 2011, 02:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857946"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Onos devours Marine
Marine has 5 seconds to be saved
Marine Dies
Onos still must digest dead body acting as a long cooldown.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Onos drops a giant steamer infront of main hive for fertilization.
Realism isn't a valid argument when it comes to gameplay elements that make the game more fun to play, but when we're talking about something that makes the game less fun in addition to making no sense from either a visual art perspective, or, if you must, a "realism" perspective, therein lies the problem.
If NS1 diehards really want the Rhino to have some kind of annoying 1-hit attack that incapacitates enemies for 10 seconds, why not use a "stomp" attack where the rhino holds the enemy down and grinds them under his hooves? But this again takes us back to the reason UW removed Devour in the first place (i mean, supposedly removed, although none of this is in game at all). Which is that causing players to be trapped in place in an FPS isn't fun.
If this game was developed by any number of companies, there'd probably be more animated environments/situations like this.
in duke nukem 3d multiplayer (shrink gun :D )
anyway we dont know at the moment which abilities the onos gonna have for sure. he announcement is already quite long
time ago, maybe uwe changed their mind. maybe they release tier3 and after alot of testing find out that onos NEEDS devour :D
we will see
If NS1 diehards really want the Rhino to have some kind of annoying 1-hit attack that incapacitates enemies for 10 seconds, why not use a "stomp" attack where the rhino holds the enemy down and grinds them under his hooves? But this again takes us back to the reason UW removed Devour in the first place (i mean, supposedly removed, although none of this is in game at all). Which is that causing players to be trapped in place in an FPS isn't fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't speak for everyone, but for me part of what made NS1 so memorable (from the Marines perspective) was the moments of suspense and anticipation that came from doing nothing. For example, holding down "E" to build a structure, securing a room while waiting for your commander to drop structures/supplys, or waiting inside an Onos for your team mates to rescue you. I agree it can be boring if over played, but at the same time it adds something to the game that I find quite unique.
The big challenge to making devour work is to find a way to make it a skill based maneuver that cannot be spammed easily. Giving it a lengthy cooldown isn't the right solution as it just makes the Onos less fun to play. Someone had suggested in another thread to make the onos move slower while digesting a marine. This is a good way to balance out the one hit kill aspect of it (even though it's technically a one hit kill, I consider it otherwise as the target is not necessarily killed immidiatly) because it requires the Onos to have a secure plan of escape. The marines have a fair chance to rescue their comrade. If the onos moved with his team mates as well however, then the marines have to fight off the other kharaas before being able to kill the fleeing onos. It promotes the much needed team work aspect of the game and can be easily tweaked for balance.
/2cents
Totally agree, even now in the beta this rings true, its an experience closer to single player survival horror that is very difficult to replicate in online play.
<!--quoteo(post=1857987:date=Jul 5 2011, 09:41 AM:name=Dank McShwagger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dank McShwagger @ Jul 5 2011, 09:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857987"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Someone had suggested in another thread to make the onos move slower while digesting a marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This would have been my suggestion as well. It would be a shame to lose the feature completely from the sequel, it made for some comic and memorable moments in the first. Giving the marine inside a way to hack at the onos with the axe would give them a little purpose and I want to see a lot of MUCUS when he gets out alive ;)
would make them think twice before blindly charging in and thereby promote teamwork.
its also a great counter for exosuits that run around solo.
Xenocide for Marines?
I think this comparison image shows that the onos is indeed big enough to devour a marine whole.. maybe some torso swelling would be needed for the onos model.. which would add to balance if its hit box is enlarged while devouring.
<img src="http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/5815/ns2onosrine.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Change it. Make it devour weapons. If an Onos ran in and snatched up good guns. leaving you with only a pistol and axe, effectivly it's removed you from your impact on the game, but not removed you from the game. The commander could drop you a new gun but it's costly. After a set duration the onos could drop it out. A marines reward for chasing it down. If he is still alive.
Make it that onos can only eat primary weapons.
Can only hold 2 or 3 weapons in its stomach.
Drops weapons after time period or dies.
I aint touching a poop covered HMG, dont care how much it cost me.
This idea does not recommend a special animation for recyled guns. Mind you steaming pile of onos stools with guns sticking out of them, helping the infestation grow and creating cover/walls for aliens is another idea. But thats getting off topic.
The marine wouldnt die in the stomach unless he chose to kill himself perhaps but theres the chance he could be rescued whilst being carted away. The onos would also be slower during this time. Even add a feature where the marine inside could move about affecting pathing for the onos (like jockey in L4D2?).
The marine wouldnt die in the stomach unless he chose to kill himself perhaps but theres the chance he could be rescued whilst being carted away. The onos would also be slower during this time. Even add a feature where the marine inside could move about affecting pathing for the onos (like jockey in L4D2?).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like the concept of giving devour a secondary function like this. Simply to kill the marine is both conceptually odd (when the Onos could just bite the marine in half and be done with it) and questionable to how great a gameplay feature it really is.
However if there is a tangible purpose (both gameplay-wise and conceptually) for the Onos to swallow marines whole, and the the marine can do something to stop that (ala jockey LFD2) then this suddenly becomes a much much more interesting gameplay feature.
Maybe the purpose is to specifically bring a marine back alive and present it to the hive for "study" (similar to Starship troopers "brain bug" sucking the brains of marines to find out intel). Then some sort of buff or bonus can be applied.
Yes, but only when devoured.
Edit: Dank, holy ######. That thing is big.
The marine wouldnt die in the stomach unless he chose to kill himself perhaps but theres the chance he could be rescued whilst being carted away. The onos would also be slower during this time. Even add a feature where the marine inside could move about affecting pathing for the onos (like jockey in L4D2?).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's an interesting concept, but at this point it seems like a waste of time when you could more quickly and easily kill said marine, or any number of other higher-priority targets. It's probably a task better suited for the Gorge.
Nostalgia is relative to each player; frustration is pretty universal. I can only see Devouring players being tolerated if it's kept to a minimum; i.e. can only be done to critically wounded players.
I do like the idea of Devouring weapons, however!
Edit: Dank, holy ######. That thing is big.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep. That model is from the map editor. It has to be official if that's what mappers are using to design their levels.
I'm pretty sure many bricks will be shat when the onos is finally released and you encounter one of those monstrosities in a narrow corridor.
Devouring a marines primary weapon?
Are you mad?!
Imagine the frustration when you JUST BOUGHT that sexy new HMG, walk out of the marine spawn only to have some Onos wander up to you, use his very dexterous tongue to pinch your gun.. then bugger off down a corridor and all you can do is quietly weep to yourself.
The original devour was an exceptionally annoying skill, the fact they could just take you, that sexy hmg and jetpack out of the game with one press of the button was something that likely caused more nerd-rages and premature deaths of a mouse and keyboard than every counter-strike wallbang kill combined.
Mind you when the tables were turned and you were doing the devouring.. it was highly satisfactory.. mm om nom..
If an onos comes across 2 or 3 marines it should change tactics. knowing he would take alot of damage charging down those marines and most likely die when retreating. If it gores a marine, snatched a gun or 2 then retreated He might make it away with his life. Leaving marines to be cleaned up by other team mates. Or risk being chased down and finished off and marines reclaim their weapons.
You could add a gamble feature where if a onos gobbled up a grenade launcher the grenades could detonate inside him inflicting massive damage. If it survives the blast have an animation of steam billowing out of it's ears and nostrils.
When getting close to end game tech most marines would be too worried about engaging an onos for fear of losing their weapon with the majority of people just plain running away.
It's almost like saying the exosuit should have a gun that paralyzes all kharaa, rooting them on the spot for 10 seconds giving the marines a chance to get a fair distance away before turning around and finishing off the helpless aliens.