fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
Ok guys! Instead of the usual screenshots, here is one ugly son of a gun layout for you to critique. First I should specify: grey is elevation (usually directly over the main path, I know that this is an issue for commander vision, I plan to just use props for the body of the overhead elevation+remove their opacity); blue is a room with a bottomless pit, but open space; pink are spawns; purple are vents for aliens; green are rescource points; red are tech points; white is walkable space; black is innaccessible
What seems to be happening is that you're relying on the blue, green and yellows a bit TOO much. Use some various other colors like that purple you've got. Use this as a reference if needed;
Don't constrict your self to using a limited number amount of light colors. The real world has a spectrum, and even though we see a color ( we'll call it x ), it can look like it's y. It might be the SAME color, but it has a different shade to it, illumination, or even a ambient lighting behind it.
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1860268:date=Jul 13 2011, 01:24 AM:name=UncleRay)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (UncleRay @ Jul 13 2011, 01:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860268"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What seems to be happening is that you're relying on the blue, green and yellows a bit TOO much. Use some various other colors like that purple you've got. Use this as a reference if needed;
Don't constrict your self to using a limited number amount of light colors. The real world has a spectrum, and even though we see a color ( we'll call it x ), it can look like it's y. It might be the SAME color, but it has a different shade to it, illumination, or even a ambient lighting behind it.
Hope that helps!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you for the feedback. I think you have a good point, even if I could find some quibbles with those shots.
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2011
Dudes who know about gameplay, Please don't forget to critique the layout. I want you all to have fun when you play the map, but I never played NS1 so I'm very ignorant, I only know what the guide tells me :(
Vladimir Van VodkaSexy BeastJoin Date: 2010-07-30Member: 73364Members, Reinforced - Shadow
please don't go about brightening your map up! I love it's ominous style, the darkness would give the game a more sinister setting, which fits perfectly with the gameplay. but I do see some balance issues... but if you are set to brighten it up, and I can't change your mind; would it be possible for you to place default <i>destroyed power-nodes</i> instead of working power nodes (I personally prefer this idea instead of keeping it dark permanently.) so marines would have to run around this sinister complex, fixing the powernodes to expand and lighting it up?
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1860382:date=Jul 13 2011, 11:12 AM:name=Vladimir Van Vodka)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vladimir Van Vodka @ Jul 13 2011, 11:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860382"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->please don't go about brightening your map up! I love it's ominous style, the darkness would give the game a more sinister setting, which fits perfectly with the gameplay. but I do see some balance issues... but if you are set to brighten it up, and I can't change your mind; would it be possible for you to place default <i>destroyed power-nodes</i> instead of working power nodes (I personally prefer this idea instead of keeping it dark permanently.) so marines would have to run around this sinister complex, fixing the powernodes to expand and lighting it up?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Holy crap I love that idea.... But I'm not sure it's possible yet. Love it
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2011
You guys have been so patient with me, so instead of punching these scenes up to full, release-level detail, I'm just going to be honest and post my progress right where I'm at in the process. There are, obviously, huge and gaping holes in these scenes (i.e., everywhere you see the sky.... thats not supposed to be showing in the final product...) Hope you guys believe me when I say WIP!
I'd say I'm at about the 40% mark for overall progress.
and finally....GIVE ME A TEXTURE ALIGNMENT TOOL! XD
Terrific! Let me say this again, I see that your lighting is a bit off as well. In the first picture, the red lights seem to be coming from the floor, or the sides of the wall ( which is pretty good! ) However, it's TOO much! Lights can only travel so far, and still look good. Those lights are going way too far. Are you using ambient lighting? If you aren't, now is a good time to implement them, and stick to a good ratio of lights, spot lights, and ambient lighting. If you are unsure of how to use them, PM me and I'll give you a crash course. These will help you as well in the second picture. If you're on the "not too dark" kind of look, ambient lighting will definitely help you towards lighting it perfectly.
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2011
I'll try to consider all feedback naturally, but the lighting is very temporary guys. I'm leaning on the darkness right now because its more flattering than unconsidered, thoughtless brightness. Some dark will stay, though
I don't really have much to say because it's hard to judge from these few pictures.
The 3rd image impresses me, it has a sense of height and depth which you don't find in any other NS2 map. They're all too flat, with little slopes here and there.
For the others, the lighting is a bit artificial. That one room is all blue, you almost expect to find a swimming pool :P
And I strongly recommend you remove that huge swathe of black yellow stripes from the wall in the first image. I have never seen anything like that...why would an entire wall need to be painted like that? I'm not enthusiastic about that room. There is a staircase curving around leading to the RT, and the RT is on a raised platform, like a performance stage. It looks too contrived, too busy and not coherent.
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1860704:date=Jul 14 2011, 04:51 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Jul 14 2011, 04:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860704"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't really have much to say because it's hard to judge from these few pictures.
The 3rd image impresses me, it has a sense of height and depth which you don't find in any other NS2 map. They're all too flat, with little slopes here and there.
For the others, the lighting is a bit artificial. That one room is all blue, you almost expect to find a swimming pool :P
And I strongly recommend you remove that huge swathe of black yellow stripes from the wall in the first image. I have never seen anything like that...why would an entire wall need to be painted like that? I'm not enthusiastic about that room. There is a staircase curving around leading to the RT, and the RT is on a raised platform, like a performance stage. It looks too contrived, too busy and not coherent.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your map is looking extremely impressive, it's dark atmosphere really gives of a rather ominous feel too it that i haven't seen elsewhere. I notice that marine and alien start appear to only have one entrance/exit, this can be rather problematic gameplay wise due to an area being too difficult to assault. If the aliens become isolated in their starting area by marines, then they may have a hard time pushing back out. looking at the overhead view, perhaps you could try expanding your map out into the top right corner, giving aliens and marines a second rout into the map from their starting points? You should try to always give an area at least two points of entry/exit.
I prefered the images in your first post, as they were darker.
I think that you might try to light it in a way, where aliens have the darkest spots, and it goes lighter the further you get to marines.
I really like how you use "outdoor" lighting, and hope you can keep the atmosphere of the map dark and scary :) Dont forget to use atmospheric lights (viewable by r_atmospherics true), although only where it benefits from it. Used in the right spot it can really enhance the atmosphere.
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2011
Thank you for all the feedback guys. I keep hearing over and over how you guys like the first images, I'm really going to have to lean heavily on my old thought process I see, in order to achieve the desired effect for you guys. basically I was using extremely dim lights, so that's a quick and easy fix, harder though to make it work within the confines of a fun level... I want it to be playable, but if there is a half and half consensus on the dim lights, I can at least learn from that.
<!--quoteo(post=1860729:date=Jul 14 2011, 07:35 PM:name=SomeMiceDrinkingTea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SomeMiceDrinkingTea @ Jul 14 2011, 07:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860729"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your map is looking extremely impressive, it's dark atmosphere really gives of a rather ominous feel too it that i haven't seen elsewhere. I notice that marine and alien start appear to only have one entrance/exit, this can be rather problematic gameplay wise due to an area being too difficult to assault. If the aliens become isolated in their starting area by marines, then they may have a hard time pushing back out. looking at the overhead view, perhaps you could try expanding your map out into the top left corner, giving aliens and marines a second rout into the map from their starting points? You should try to always give an area at least two points of entry/exit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you very much for the analysis of the layout, I should state the spawns are the rooms I have zero idea what I'm going to do with, not even on the conceptual level, so I didn't draw any additional routes in and out of there for that reason.
Have to be honest here, i'm not a massive fan of that sickly yellow lighting that seems to be very pervasive throughout your map. Have you tried to soften it slightly as so it's not so 'odd' looking. Perhaps it's just me that finds it very off.
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1860821:date=Jul 15 2011, 07:50 AM:name=Janos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Janos @ Jul 15 2011, 07:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860821"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Have to be honest here, i'm not a massive fan of that sickly yellow lighting that seems to be very pervasive throughout your map. Have you tried to soften it slightly as so it's not so 'odd' looking. Perhaps it's just me that finds it very off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm kind of at a loss here, I went back through the thread and only found one example of what you mentioned. The only room that fits that description is the second of the shots I posted above, and I feel that it works well there precisely because it is limited to that room.
If you are referring to orange, more broadly, there is a good amount of orange. But it is a solid, hearty, normal kind of orange everywhere but in that room :P
<!--quoteo(post=1860900:date=Jul 15 2011, 02:01 PM:name=Janos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Janos @ Jul 15 2011, 02:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860900"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's in the majority of the screenshots, small yellow lights, surely i'm not the only one that see's them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The small Amber warning light? It's called a claxon in the editor but a claxon is actually a horn that emits sound not light.....
If that's it, it's textures glow and can't be toned down.
<!--quoteo(post=1860902:date=Jul 15 2011, 10:22 PM:name=SN.Wolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SN.Wolf @ Jul 15 2011, 10:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860902"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The small Amber warning light? It's called a claxon in the editor but a claxon is actually a horn that emits sound not light.....
If that's it, it's textures glow and can't be toned down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No i know what they are and that is not it :P, perhaps it's just the age of the laptop i'm using, it's brightness and colour seems to alter when it feels like it.
This map is so far the best map in my opinion. So excited that it's still WIP and i can see lots more. I hope you finish this really great, and i'm certain that this can be another official map of NS2. The atmosphere is just fantastic.
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1860930:date=Jul 15 2011, 09:38 PM:name=Classic319)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Classic319 @ Jul 15 2011, 09:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860930"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This map is so far the best map in my opinion. So excited that it's still WIP and i can see lots more. I hope you finish this really great, and i'm certain that this can be another official map of NS2. The atmosphere is just fantastic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's very kind of you but summit is the best~! :)
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
trying to light, I'm so... bad at it, I have no idea how to get the natural easy look of summit or tram. so, here's grunge. this is scratching the bottom of the barrel a bit, but its fun to take screenshots
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/My4oJ.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/whDIZ.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/vx38N.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> ^ up on the new girders I installed <img src="http://i.imgur.com/POvF1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> vent-way from the red boiler room to the top with the girders <img src="http://i.imgur.com/qteYK.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> ^the vent exit is center there <img src="http://i.imgur.com/NofQH.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/055oi.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> this area looks pretty lousy from up top, but great from below
This is far more potential than summit i think. Summit made some great bright lightened map, and i'd hope you keep your darkish lightening. Keep up the good work!
Please keep it dark like this, it looks really natural and believable. I'd love to run around this map as a marine with flashlight on, checking all the nooks and crannies for skulks :D
Comments
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/BmKw2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
BE HONEST! :D
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/V7bIY.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5021/smallhallred.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Don't constrict your self to using a limited number amount of light colors. The real world has a spectrum, and even though we see a color ( we'll call it x ), it can look like it's y. It might be the SAME color, but it has a different shade to it, illumination, or even a ambient lighting behind it.
Hope that helps!
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/V7bIY.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5021/smallhallred.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Don't constrict your self to using a limited number amount of light colors. The real world has a spectrum, and even though we see a color ( we'll call it x ), it can look like it's y. It might be the SAME color, but it has a different shade to it, illumination, or even a ambient lighting behind it.
Hope that helps!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you for the feedback. I think you have a good point, even if I could find some quibbles with those shots.
The room with the big pilons kinda reminds me of the alien machine in total recall.
I am now very happy.
I love it's ominous style, the darkness would give the game a more sinister setting, which fits perfectly with the gameplay. but I do see some balance issues...
but if you are set to brighten it up, and I can't change your mind;
would it be possible for you to place default <i>destroyed power-nodes</i> instead of working power nodes (I personally prefer this idea instead of keeping it dark permanently.) so marines would have to run around this sinister complex, fixing the powernodes to expand and lighting it up?
I love it's ominous style, the darkness would give the game a more sinister setting, which fits perfectly with the gameplay. but I do see some balance issues...
but if you are set to brighten it up, and I can't change your mind;
would it be possible for you to place default <i>destroyed power-nodes</i> instead of working power nodes (I personally prefer this idea instead of keeping it dark permanently.) so marines would have to run around this sinister complex, fixing the powernodes to expand and lighting it up?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Holy crap I love that idea.... But I'm not sure it's possible yet. Love it
I'd say I'm at about the 40% mark for overall progress.
and finally....GIVE ME A TEXTURE ALIGNMENT TOOL! XD
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/s75cL.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/3Ts27.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/gbEbP.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/T6zB7.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/5iIK2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/upr9h.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
ANyways, I'm making excuses basically
The 3rd image impresses me, it has a sense of height and depth which you don't find in any other NS2 map. They're all too flat, with little slopes here and there.
For the others, the lighting is a bit artificial. That one room is all blue, you almost expect to find a swimming pool :P
And I strongly recommend you remove that huge swathe of black yellow stripes from the wall in the first image. I have never seen anything like that...why would an entire wall need to be painted like that? I'm not enthusiastic about that room. There is a staircase curving around leading to the RT, and the RT is on a raised platform, like a performance stage. It looks too contrived, too busy and not coherent.
The 3rd image impresses me, it has a sense of height and depth which you don't find in any other NS2 map. They're all too flat, with little slopes here and there.
For the others, the lighting is a bit artificial. That one room is all blue, you almost expect to find a swimming pool :P
And I strongly recommend you remove that huge swathe of black yellow stripes from the wall in the first image. I have never seen anything like that...why would an entire wall need to be painted like that? I'm not enthusiastic about that room. There is a staircase curving around leading to the RT, and the RT is on a raised platform, like a performance stage. It looks too contrived, too busy and not coherent.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
THank you for the honest critique!
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/w4fO4.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/sgYYw.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I think that you might try to light it in a way, where aliens have the darkest spots, and it goes lighter the further you get to marines.
I really like how you use "outdoor" lighting, and hope you can keep the atmosphere of the map dark and scary :)
Dont forget to use atmospheric lights (viewable by r_atmospherics true), although only where it benefits from it. Used in the right spot it can really enhance the atmosphere.
<!--quoteo(post=1860729:date=Jul 14 2011, 07:35 PM:name=SomeMiceDrinkingTea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SomeMiceDrinkingTea @ Jul 14 2011, 07:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860729"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your map is looking extremely impressive, it's dark atmosphere really gives of a rather ominous feel too it that i haven't seen elsewhere. I notice that marine and alien start appear to only have one entrance/exit, this can be rather problematic gameplay wise due to an area being too difficult to assault. If the aliens become isolated in their starting area by marines, then they may have a hard time pushing back out. looking at the overhead view, perhaps you could try expanding your map out into the top left corner, giving aliens and marines a second rout into the map from their starting points? You should try to always give an area at least two points of entry/exit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you very much for the analysis of the layout, I should state the spawns are the rooms I have zero idea what I'm going to do with, not even on the conceptual level, so I didn't draw any additional routes in and out of there for that reason.
Have you tried to soften it slightly as so it's not so 'odd' looking. Perhaps it's just me that finds it very off.
Have you tried to soften it slightly as so it's not so 'odd' looking. Perhaps it's just me that finds it very off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm kind of at a loss here, I went back through the thread and only found one example of what you mentioned. The only room that fits that description is the second of the shots I posted above, and I feel that it works well there precisely because it is limited to that room.
If you are referring to orange, more broadly, there is a good amount of orange. But it is a solid, hearty, normal kind of orange everywhere but in that room :P
Orange is the least popular color, though
The small Amber warning light? It's called a claxon in the editor but a claxon is actually a horn that emits sound not light.....
If that's it, it's textures glow and can't be toned down.
If that's it, it's textures glow and can't be toned down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No i know what they are and that is not it :P, perhaps it's just the age of the laptop i'm using, it's brightness and colour seems to alter when it feels like it.
That's very kind of you but summit is the best~! :)
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/My4oJ.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/whDIZ.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/vx38N.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
^ up on the new girders I installed
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/POvF1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
vent-way from the red boiler room to the top with the girders
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/qteYK.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
^the vent exit is center there
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/NofQH.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/055oi.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
this area looks pretty lousy from up top, but great from below
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/VPP2N.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/k9Fgb.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/WDx9M.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/sMHyB.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />