Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Wait what, Slowdown on hit ala natasha TF2? Have't booted up 180 yet, but this has actually crossed the devs mind up to the point of implementing it ingame for testing?
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1859016:date=Jul 9 2011, 03:31 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Jul 9 2011, 03:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859016"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wait what, Slowdown on hit ala natasha TF2? Have't booted up 180 yet, but this has actually crossed the devs mind up to the point of implementing it ingame for testing?
<b>Can I have a WTF!?</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm afraid the testers were too busy playing Skulk Golf.
The effect is similar to Natasha, except the speed reduction is based on the remaining HP% of the victim, max 50% speed reduction (near death).
<!--quoteo(post=1859016:date=Jul 9 2011, 12:31 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Jul 9 2011, 12:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859016"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wait what, Slowdown on hit ala natasha TF2? Have't booted up 180 yet, but this has actually crossed the devs mind up to the point of implementing it ingame for testing?
<b>Can I have a WTF!?</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <b>WTF!?</b>
I've not even been able to download the game yet. Despite that, from what I've heard I don't think it's worthwhile my effort playing this build, the balance from 178 -> 179 was improved but from 179 -> 180 sounds like a step backwards (or a step too far forwards for Marines).
I've not even been able to download the game yet. Despite that, from what I've heard I don't think it's worthwhile my effort playing this build, the balance from 178 -> 179 was improved but from 179 -> 180 sounds like a step backwards (or a step too far forwards for Marines).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's pretty bad, much worse for aliens. Lerks getting slowed mid-flight by weapons...
In fairness it's listed in the patchnotes as experimental so I'm sure it'll get removed. There are far worse problems though, like the cysts and the lack of changes to parts of the game that needed them.
- Cysts are easy to kill and free res for marines (its +1 isnt it?) - Cyst system is kinda "flawed" as one ninja marine can take out one or two cysts near the alien base more or less easily and then the whole network breaks down if not fiexed quickly, which requires gorges around and res. But wouldn't be such a big issue if cysts where harder to hit/kill I think. Or at least give them something like invisibility until scanned. - GL spam still sucks bad - auto weapon pick up is annoying. For marines and aliens alike - whip seems useless. I only see them build for upgrades.
To the "marines are op now" discussion: I think it is mostly related to weapon drop on death. I rarely have to buy a weapon and never ran out of res as marine because once one marine bough a weapon you simply pick it up and go on fighting. As alien I have to try to get res as a skulk which became much harder due to the slow-down on hit. So in the end it feels like that now marines simply "out-res" aliens. Staying alive is now much less important for marines and they can push much more aggresivley. Before 180 it often decided to get killed to take out the shotgun/flamethrower guy but this gave my team an edge. Now its toally unimportant which marine I kill, there are enough marines around which will pick up the weapon. Trying to hide and surprise marines isn't really rewarding for skulks anymore. AT least not as in pre180.
Man this is possibly the worst balanced build ever. Aliens are either stalemate or lost. The only time they have one so far was when they ninja marine spawn power node and chomp everything, marines were dominating otherwise.
- Fades are super nerfed and pretty much useless - the slow-when-damaged thing is ###### - pustules are a good concept, they look cool, but a marine will waltz up to a pustule are our main hive, take it out in 2 seconds and the whole ###### pustule network goes down with it. They need a huge buff the closer they are to the hive imo. - can't control energy in another hive? stupid stupid stupid. In smaller games it is not really feasible to have > 1 comm, and the general rule for all games is still "one com to rule them all". having to jump out of the hive to go into the other and risk being shot on the way? no thanks - new powernode system, IMO it should be permanently black to give the aliens an actual advantage rather than just red lighting. At the very least make the intitial black last at least 5-10 seconds. - marines picking up weapons needs a nerf now seeing as there are 10000 gls on the ground now and the nade spam is unbearable
+ map changes are great + sounds are graet
less skulk golf more testing pl0x
edit:
ALSO: pustules count towards the entity limit???? Not a good idea as I Was unable to build a res node because there were too many pustules + maybe 3 crags in SA.
<b>I encounter a weird bug (right a minute ago).</b> When I do evolve into fade, the whole aniens evolve menu sprites appears in the middle of screen after I respawn as fade. Can't see anything, because all sprites was in the middle of screen (when the crosshair should be). The sprites remains also when enters RR.
<!--quoteo(post=1858877:date=Jul 9 2011, 07:45 AM:name=garvani)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (garvani @ Jul 9 2011, 07:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1858877"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Looking good! only thing im not so sure about is Quite enjoyed harrasing marines from a far with spores, i thought this was a legitimate tactic of the lerk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Mate, <b>everything</b> is a legitimate tactic - when you're a player. When you're a designer, you gotta see with different eyes.
Here is something that has not been written before:
Thank you UWE for being open for all kinds of experimentation. After all that's what a beta is for, in a complex work process as developing a game you can not just improve everything from one build to the next, sometimes you have to step back and try something completely different. Sometimes it has to be drastic and radical to see what other options are available, in the end it is often those heavily experimental tryouts that reveal important insights. There are enough developers who go a straight line from start to finish without taking any risks, I'm glad you guys do drastic experiments like this, even if they seem bold and unpolished, as this brings forward the direction of the development a great deal.
Looking forward to Build 181.
Post scriptum: A lot of people seem to forget that a beta is not meant to deliver maximum fun but bring forward the development to a point where the developers know what the final should be like. A beta build does not come with a fun-warranty, it's not fair to be angry or feel betrayed.
Im so accustomed to the lerk flight from 179 that i really dislike the 180 style. (if there was a way to allow players to choose their type of flight in the settings that would be so boner) The spores 10metre thing was a major nerf thats just too unfair for the lerks little health/armor. Combined with the slow on damage, 1 experienced marine with a shotgun has no fear of a lerk anymore.
The cysts need a sort of regen over time. I was just in a game where a cysts was sitting on 4% the whole game.
(o but i love the sh*t you guys did in generator on summit that just looks awesome now.)
I didnt enjoy the patch long enough to play fade and as much as i hate to say it- brb next patch
<!--quoteo(post=1859037:date=Jul 9 2011, 09:09 PM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Jul 9 2011, 09:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859037"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why not do it based on the damage from the hit?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is much more reasonable than the current implementation. So a rifle would only do 10 damage (per bullet) and slow for that proportion; a shotgun (per pellet) would only do 20 (max) damage and slow for that proportion, while a skulk bite would do 75 damage (considerably more) and slow for that proportion.
I also had a different idea, from a different thread: <!--quoteo(post=1859031:date=Jul 9 2011, 08:43 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Jul 9 2011, 08:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859031"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I thought it was a bit silly that it applied to aliens at all. Actually, make that projectiles. I think they should remove it for anything other than <b>melee</b> attacks (remove it for projectiles). (So for the marines, the axe and riflebutt can still slow on damage.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> alongside other Build 180 thoughts. (Hit the little pink <- arrow).
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
Please bring back the fade to black in powered down rooms, It doesn't look nice when it's dark red for all of eternity.
Also please remove the cyst res requirement of the gorge, gorge should just work together with the comm to place cysts. Currently it's like throwing res against the wall waiting for one person with a 15res shotgun to blast through your 50res of pustules.
I played a game as a Kharaa and raged how they got so easily destroyed by the Marines, was confused by the cysts system and got stuck near the hive right up by the railings. Marines are OP dammit!!
... then I played as a Marine , ok I was sort of forced to do comm duties and I suck hard as a comm, hell I forgot the weap and armor upgrades ( to be fair I was used to them being in the armory so I do have an escuse ). I was raging how hard it was to hit a Skulk, or down a Fade even with shotguns ... the game would hitch at the most awkward moments making aiming a lottery during the frantic battles in base.
To be honest, its hard to tell how the actual balance is like when the performance is still a bit iffy , I got a 580GTX now and still struggle to keep above 30FPS in the big base battles plus the server tick rate is still not up to decent levels on some servers ( lack of official UWE servers in the EU/UK hurts here, cant tell if its the server software by UWE or the server hardware setup by a player ).
Forgetting for a moment the hitching and performance issues , I do like the new sounds and seen a lot of nice little details that make a game special. The game is SLOWLY building into a special game.
A suggestion if you permit, limit the number of ARC's on the field, a weapon that strong should be limited to one on the field... defending a hive hoping to get hive 2 tech to forge some sort of offence and 5 of the buggers roll up... GG.
Marine tech is also too easy to aquire , far too easy. I can count the number of games I have comm'ed on one hand, and have spare digits yet on 2 collectors I was able to have shotguns, GL's , Flamers , researched ARC's and MAC's , build up SG's and multiple IP's... eventually I remembered about weapon upgrades and was able to get to weap 2 armor 2. This is a absolutely noob comm on one base and 2 collectors managing to get through the majority of marine tech... its too easy. Ok, if this is just beta balances to ensure that all the tech have a chance to show up to test it out , fine... but before retail getting tech should be about choosing and about builds, not just spam research and slap up all the buildings in the game.
I liked this update and look forward to the future patches, I especially will welcome some more performace optimisations and love the direction the game is taking bar some minor issues.
Gorge (10 res) and commander work together to build a small base, a number of pustules (say 10 res total）, 3 crags (30 res), a few hydras (30 res). Total = 80-100 res for a small base to defend a hive or a path. This also takes a lot of time to create and requires constant defense.
Now, a marine (free) with a grenade launcher (20 res) can blow up that base no problem by himself, his grenades are free once he has bought a launcher or found one (free). Crags heal very slowly and hydras are so weak.
So 20 marine res can take out 100 alien res.
Let's look at the other side. What if marines spend 100 res defending an area with some sentries and an armory? Can 20 alien res take out that base? 20 alien res doesn't even get you the fragile, short range attacker Lerk.
<!--quoteo(post=1859043:date=Jul 9 2011, 02:26 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Jul 9 2011, 02:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859043"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is much more reasonable than the current implementation. So a rifle would only do 10 damage (per bullet) and slow for that proportion; a shotgun (per pellet) would only do 20 (max) damage and slow for that proportion, while a skulk bite would do 75 damage (considerably more) and slow for that proportion.
I also had a different idea, from a different thread:
alongside other Build 180 thoughts. (Hit the little pink <- arrow).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know, I think the slow down actually brings a little realism with it - in a way that allows for more tactical combat.
Otherwise I spend my time as Skulk running around chomping like mad because I can't see where the target is.
But I think slow down should be rewarded for accuracy, not your hp level.
korvoJoin Date: 2009-11-19Member: 69427Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Increased shotgun damage<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> WHAAAAT? In 179 players claimed about an overpowered shotgun. Now it's stronger and the only anti-weapon - the lerk weaker? What the hell are you guys doing?! That's laughable.
If you wanted to fix to get the lerk back in the game as it should be, all you really need to do is add bite again, and make it powerful. Bite in NS1 could dominate in the hands of a good lerk.
I don't like the balance changes, and I think cysts in general are dumb. You had the creep/infestation model right from the start, but you made the infestation too hard to kill, even with a flamethrower. Giving the aliens marine-style power nodes just makes them more similar to marines, and makes it less likely that infestation will be everywhere as aliens advance, which, gameplay mechanics aside, looked really cool. There were better solutions, like a MAC that clears infestation or making ARC's wipe out infestation around a structure.
Also, aliens need more ranged attacks, not to be made weaker at range, but if you're planning on putting acid rockets back disregard this.
making gorges pay 10 res for every cyst is a bit too much...
The fade changes has made it totally pointless of going it in the 1st place. So far every game ive played it has been better to stay a skulk to actually able to kill ANYTHING
WHAAAAT? In 179 players claimed about an overpowered shotgun. Now it's stronger and the only anti-weapon - the lerk weaker? What the hell are you guys doing?! That's laughable.
I encountered a problem as skulk once. The camera rotation somehow went over the limits, resulting in a completey reversed camera view and mouse control... until I died with that skulk. That was already in build 179 though. Gotta hate 3D rotations as programmer.
Otherwise, the game is looking really good by now.
korvoJoin Date: 2009-11-19Member: 69427Members, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2011
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is an experimental change, please be sure to let us know what you think!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you want to know what we think - READ THE DAMN FEEDBACK at getsatisfaction.com - At the moment it seems like noone cares about what we write there!
Edit: Apperantly not everyone here knows "getsatisfaction.com". To clarify it for everyone: This is the official page for reporting bugs etc. to unknown-worlds.
Ridiculously awesome patch. Here are my thoughts so far in bullet list form. Some aren't 180-specific but I figured I would mention anything that came to mind.
<ul><li>New lerk flight is amazing. Inspired by Mario 64, perhaps? Anyway, THIS is what skill based movement feels like. Very nice.</li><li>Lerk snipe probably got nerfed too hard. It now takes over 20 shots of it to take out a sentry gun, and this was aliens only early game answer to turrets. Now it is no answer at all.</li><li>Now that flamethrower is less useful due to cysts I would love to see it counter lerk gas spam.</li><li>Love the new "hitbeep" for marines (or maybe it's just that aliens make a super loud "chunk" when shot), I wish aliens had something similar.</li><li>New lerk spines are cool for up close skirmishing, and I really like how you can siege via arcing them over things, but it would be very nice if we could see if we are actually hitting anything. Make the cursor go blue like it does when you land a snipe?</li><li>When turrets are hit, they seem to jiggle around randomly and its hard to tell where they're aiming. Also looks bad</li><li>All of the summit changes are fantastic</li><li>Gorge heal spray should not do damage, or the amount it does should probably be toned down?</li><li>New fade swing is cool. Stab is still useless and would love to see this replaced with a more team-friendly/strategic ability. 100% energy use: make friendly target invisible for 10 seconds. Something like that.</li><li>Fade crouch is amazing! Gives fades a whole new level of map control and knowledge.</li><li>Marine weapon drop is neat... not completely sure how I feel about it, but it is nice that the mobility of the aliens can longer pick and snipe away the most powerful weapons.</li><li>New cyst system is.... weird. I love that gorge can help the commander with cysts, I hate that any marine can kill them. It feels like it needs an SC2 style thing where they area automatically stealthed and can only be seen after scanned or something.</li><li>The cyst light/dark system is incredible. Takes the guesswork out of spreading infestation, love it.</li><li>Server and/or netcode seems laggier in general</li></ul> Oh, and bring back the pulsing red with pitch blackness.
Spamming space for jump sux but holding mouse1 for fade doesnt rofl guys take a hint, you are doing it wrong.
It aint perfect though.
<!--quoteo(post=1859080:date=Jul 9 2011, 05:05 PM:name=twincannon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twincannon @ Jul 9 2011, 05:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859080"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ridiculously awesome patch. Here are my thoughts so far in bullet list form. Some aren't 180-specific but I figured I would mention anything that came to mind.
<ul><li>New lerk flight is amazing. Inspired by Mario 64, perhaps? Anyway, THIS is what skill based movement feels like. Very nice.</li><li>Lerk snipe probably got nerfed too hard. It now takes over 20 shots of it to take out a sentry gun, and this was aliens only early game answer to turrets. Now it is no answer at all.</li><li>Now that flamethrower is less useful due to cysts I would love to see it counter lerk gas spam.</li><li>Love the new "hitbeep" for marines (or maybe it's just that aliens make a super loud "chunk" when shot), I wish aliens had something similar.</li><li>New lerk spines are cool for up close skirmishing, and I really like how you can siege via arcing them over things, but it would be very nice if we could see if we are actually hitting anything. Make the cursor go blue like it does when you land a snipe?</li><li>When turrets are hit, they seem to jiggle around randomly and its hard to tell where they're aiming. Also looks bad</li><li>All of the summit changes are fantastic</li><li>Gorge heal spray should not do damage, or the amount it does should probably be toned down?</li><li>New fade swing is cool. Stab is still useless and would love to see this replaced with a more team-friendly/strategic ability. 100% energy use: make friendly target invisible for 10 seconds. Something like that.</li><li>Fade crouch is amazing! Gives fades a whole new level of map control and knowledge.</li><li>Marine weapon drop is neat... not completely sure how I feel about it, but it is nice that the mobility of the aliens can longer pick and snipe away the most powerful weapons.</li><li>New cyst system is.... weird. I love that gorge can help the commander with cysts, I hate that any marine can kill them. It feels like it needs an SC2 style thing where they area automatically stealthed and can only be seen after scanned or something.</li><li>The cyst light/dark system is incredible. Takes the guesswork out of spreading infestation, love it.</li><li>Server and/or netcode seems laggier in general</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Dude what have you been smoking, lerk skill based movement? Your snipe is not snipe its a low ranged shot, Fade crouch map control and knowledge woah holy weed (I think I know what you really mean though)
Cysts are stupid. Lerk is stupid. Fade is stupid. Slowdown on aliens is stupid. Shotgun is stupidly good. But damn I love the polishing on the crosshairs and audio side. Love the hit tick.
Marines is very fun to play now, but it's not fun at all to be on the aliens side.
New lerk flight sucks. Too hard to get around now. Makes it difficult to gain height for effective gliding. Please, we need a option in the options menu that allows us to change between the two flight things.
Comments
<b>Can I have a WTF!?</b>
<b>Can I have a WTF!?</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm afraid the testers were too busy playing Skulk Golf.
The effect is similar to Natasha, except the speed reduction is based on the remaining HP% of the victim, max 50% speed reduction (near death).
<b>Can I have a WTF!?</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>WTF!?</b>
I've not even been able to download the game yet. Despite that, from what I've heard I don't think it's worthwhile my effort playing this build, the balance from 178 -> 179 was improved but from 179 -> 180 sounds like a step backwards (or a step too far forwards for Marines).
I've not even been able to download the game yet. Despite that, from what I've heard I don't think it's worthwhile my effort playing this build, the balance from 178 -> 179 was improved but from 179 -> 180 sounds like a step backwards (or a step too far forwards for Marines).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's pretty bad, much worse for aliens. Lerks getting slowed mid-flight by weapons...
In fairness it's listed in the patchnotes as experimental so I'm sure it'll get removed. There are far worse problems though, like the cysts and the lack of changes to parts of the game that needed them.
- Cysts are easy to kill and free res for marines (its +1 isnt it?)
- Cyst system is kinda "flawed" as one ninja marine can take out one or two cysts near the alien base more or less easily and then the whole network breaks down if not fiexed quickly, which requires gorges around and res. But wouldn't be such a big issue if cysts where harder to hit/kill I think. Or at least give them something like invisibility until scanned.
- GL spam still sucks bad
- auto weapon pick up is annoying. For marines and aliens alike
- whip seems useless. I only see them build for upgrades.
To the "marines are op now" discussion: I think it is mostly related to weapon drop on death. I rarely have to buy a weapon and never ran out of res as marine because once one marine bough a weapon you simply pick it up and go on fighting. As alien I have to try to get res as a skulk which became much harder due to the slow-down on hit. So in the end it feels like that now marines simply "out-res" aliens. Staying alive is now much less important for marines and they can push much more aggresivley.
Before 180 it often decided to get killed to take out the shotgun/flamethrower guy but this gave my team an edge. Now its toally unimportant which marine I kill, there are enough marines around which will pick up the weapon. Trying to hide and surprise marines isn't really rewarding for skulks anymore. AT least not as in pre180.
- Fades are super nerfed and pretty much useless
- the slow-when-damaged thing is ######
- pustules are a good concept, they look cool, but a marine will waltz up to a pustule are our main hive, take it out in 2 seconds and the whole ###### pustule network goes down with it. They need a huge buff the closer they are to the hive imo.
- can't control energy in another hive? stupid stupid stupid. In smaller games it is not really feasible to have > 1 comm, and the general rule for all games is still "one com to rule them all". having to jump out of the hive to go into the other and risk being shot on the way? no thanks
- new powernode system, IMO it should be permanently black to give the aliens an actual advantage rather than just red lighting. At the very least make the intitial black last at least 5-10 seconds.
- marines picking up weapons needs a nerf now seeing as there are 10000 gls on the ground now and the nade spam is unbearable
+ map changes are great
+ sounds are graet
less skulk golf more testing pl0x
edit:
ALSO: pustules count towards the entity limit???? Not a good idea as I Was unable to build a res node because there were too many pustules + maybe 3 crags in SA.
When I do evolve into fade, the whole aniens evolve menu sprites appears in the middle of screen after I respawn as fade.
Can't see anything, because all sprites was in the middle of screen (when the crosshair should be). The sprites remains also when enters RR.
Mate, <b>everything</b> is a legitimate tactic - when you're a player. When you're a designer, you gotta see with different eyes.
Why not do it based on the damage from the hit?
I have had some good games, but now it just feels like you are throwing Skulks at a meat grinder. They are too easy to kill.
Thank you UWE for being open for all kinds of experimentation. After all that's what a beta is for, in a complex work process as developing a game you can not just improve everything from one build to the next, sometimes you have to step back and try something completely different. Sometimes it has to be drastic and radical to see what other options are available, in the end it is often those heavily experimental tryouts that reveal important insights. There are enough developers who go a straight line from start to finish without taking any risks, I'm glad you guys do drastic experiments like this, even if they seem bold and unpolished, as this brings forward the direction of the development a great deal.
Looking forward to Build 181.
Post scriptum: A lot of people seem to forget that a beta is not meant to deliver maximum fun but bring forward the development to a point where the developers know what the final should be like. A beta build does not come with a fun-warranty, it's not fair to be angry or feel betrayed.
Im so accustomed to the lerk flight from 179 that i really dislike the 180 style. (if there was a way to allow players to choose their type of flight in the settings that would be so boner)
The spores 10metre thing was a major nerf thats just too unfair for the lerks little health/armor. Combined with the slow on damage, 1 experienced marine with a shotgun has no fear of a lerk anymore.
The cysts need a sort of regen over time. I was just in a game where a cysts was sitting on 4% the whole game.
(o but i love the sh*t you guys did in generator on summit that just looks awesome now.)
I didnt enjoy the patch long enough to play fade and as much as i hate to say it- brb next patch
This is much more reasonable than the current implementation. So a rifle would only do 10 damage (per bullet) and slow for that proportion; a shotgun (per pellet) would only do 20 (max) damage and slow for that proportion, while a skulk bite would do 75 damage (considerably more) and slow for that proportion.
I also had a different idea, from a different thread:
<!--quoteo(post=1859031:date=Jul 9 2011, 08:43 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Jul 9 2011, 08:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859031"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I thought it was a bit silly that it applied to aliens at all. Actually, make that projectiles. I think they should remove it for anything other than <b>melee</b> attacks (remove it for projectiles). (So for the marines, the axe and riflebutt can still slow on damage.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
alongside other Build 180 thoughts. (Hit the little pink <- arrow).
Also please remove the cyst res requirement of the gorge, gorge should just work together with the comm to place cysts. Currently it's like throwing res against the wall waiting for one person with a 15res shotgun to blast through your 50res of pustules.
I played a game as a Kharaa and raged how they got so easily destroyed by the Marines, was confused by the cysts system and got stuck near the hive right up by the railings. Marines are OP dammit!!
... then I played as a Marine , ok I was sort of forced to do comm duties and I suck hard as a comm, hell I forgot the weap and armor upgrades ( to be fair I was used to them being in the armory so I do have an escuse ).
I was raging how hard it was to hit a Skulk, or down a Fade even with shotguns ... the game would hitch at the most awkward moments making aiming a lottery during the frantic battles in base.
To be honest, its hard to tell how the actual balance is like when the performance is still a bit iffy , I got a 580GTX now and still struggle to keep above 30FPS in the big base battles plus the server tick rate is still not up to decent levels on some servers ( lack of official UWE servers in the EU/UK hurts here, cant tell if its the server software by UWE or the server hardware setup by a player ).
Forgetting for a moment the hitching and performance issues , I do like the new sounds and seen a lot of nice little details that make a game special. The game is SLOWLY building into a special game.
A suggestion if you permit, limit the number of ARC's on the field, a weapon that strong should be limited to one on the field... defending a hive hoping to get hive 2 tech to forge some sort of offence and 5 of the buggers roll up... GG.
Marine tech is also too easy to aquire , far too easy.
I can count the number of games I have comm'ed on one hand, and have spare digits yet on 2 collectors I was able to have shotguns, GL's , Flamers , researched ARC's and MAC's , build up SG's and multiple IP's... eventually I remembered about weapon upgrades and was able to get to weap 2 armor 2.
This is a absolutely noob comm on one base and 2 collectors managing to get through the majority of marine tech... its too easy.
Ok, if this is just beta balances to ensure that all the tech have a chance to show up to test it out , fine... but before retail getting tech should be about choosing and about builds, not just spam research and slap up all the buildings in the game.
I liked this update and look forward to the future patches, I especially will welcome some more performace optimisations and love the direction the game is taking bar some minor issues.
Gorge (10 res) and commander work together to build a small base, a number of pustules (say 10 res total）, 3 crags (30 res), a few hydras (30 res). Total = 80-100 res for a small base to defend a hive or a path. This also takes a lot of time to create and requires constant defense.
Now, a marine (free) with a grenade launcher (20 res) can blow up that base no problem by himself, his grenades are free once he has bought a launcher or found one (free). Crags heal very slowly and hydras are so weak.
So 20 marine res can take out 100 alien res.
Let's look at the other side. What if marines spend 100 res defending an area with some sentries and an armory? Can 20 alien res take out that base? 20 alien res doesn't even get you the fragile, short range attacker Lerk.
A singel marine can get close to a hive, destroy a cyst and then all the other cyst outside the hive will be automatic killed.
Hopefully you guys will give more armor and hp to the cyst, and also the closer a cyst is to the hive the stronger it gets.
I also had a different idea, from a different thread:
alongside other Build 180 thoughts. (Hit the little pink <- arrow).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know, I think the slow down actually brings a little realism with it - in a way that allows for more tactical combat.
Otherwise I spend my time as Skulk running around chomping like mad because I can't see where the target is.
But I think slow down should be rewarded for accuracy, not your hp level.
WHAAAAT? In 179 players claimed about an overpowered shotgun. Now it's stronger and the only anti-weapon - the lerk weaker? What the hell are you guys doing?! That's laughable.
Also, aliens need more ranged attacks, not to be made weaker at range, but if you're planning on putting acid rockets back disregard this.
The fade changes has made it totally pointless of going it in the 1st place. So far every game ive played it has been better to stay a skulk to actually able to kill ANYTHING
I encountered a problem as skulk once. The camera rotation somehow went over the limits, resulting in a completey reversed camera view and mouse control... until I died with that skulk. That was already in build 179 though. Gotta hate 3D rotations as programmer.
Otherwise, the game is looking really good by now.
If you want to know what we think - READ THE DAMN FEEDBACK at getsatisfaction.com - At the moment it seems like noone cares about what we write there!
Edit: Apperantly not everyone here knows "getsatisfaction.com". To clarify it for everyone: This is the official page for reporting bugs etc. to unknown-worlds.
<ul><li>New lerk flight is amazing. Inspired by Mario 64, perhaps? Anyway, THIS is what skill based movement feels like. Very nice.</li><li>Lerk snipe probably got nerfed too hard. It now takes over 20 shots of it to take out a sentry gun, and this was aliens only early game answer to turrets. Now it is no answer at all.</li><li>Now that flamethrower is less useful due to cysts I would love to see it counter lerk gas spam.</li><li>Love the new "hitbeep" for marines (or maybe it's just that aliens make a super loud "chunk" when shot), I wish aliens had something similar.</li><li>New lerk spines are cool for up close skirmishing, and I really like how you can siege via arcing them over things, but it would be very nice if we could see if we are actually hitting anything. Make the cursor go blue like it does when you land a snipe?</li><li>When turrets are hit, they seem to jiggle around randomly and its hard to tell where they're aiming. Also looks bad</li><li>All of the summit changes are fantastic</li><li>Gorge heal spray should not do damage, or the amount it does should probably be toned down?</li><li>New fade swing is cool. Stab is still useless and would love to see this replaced with a more team-friendly/strategic ability. 100% energy use: make friendly target invisible for 10 seconds. Something like that.</li><li>Fade crouch is amazing! Gives fades a whole new level of map control and knowledge.</li><li>Marine weapon drop is neat... not completely sure how I feel about it, but it is nice that the mobility of the aliens can longer pick and snipe away the most powerful weapons.</li><li>New cyst system is.... weird. I love that gorge can help the commander with cysts, I hate that any marine can kill them. It feels like it needs an SC2 style thing where they area automatically stealthed and can only be seen after scanned or something.</li><li>The cyst light/dark system is incredible. Takes the guesswork out of spreading infestation, love it.</li><li>Server and/or netcode seems laggier in general</li></ul>
Oh, and bring back the pulsing red with pitch blackness.
It aint perfect though.
<!--quoteo(post=1859080:date=Jul 9 2011, 05:05 PM:name=twincannon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twincannon @ Jul 9 2011, 05:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859080"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ridiculously awesome patch. Here are my thoughts so far in bullet list form. Some aren't 180-specific but I figured I would mention anything that came to mind.
<ul><li>New lerk flight is amazing. Inspired by Mario 64, perhaps? Anyway, THIS is what skill based movement feels like. Very nice.</li><li>Lerk snipe probably got nerfed too hard. It now takes over 20 shots of it to take out a sentry gun, and this was aliens only early game answer to turrets. Now it is no answer at all.</li><li>Now that flamethrower is less useful due to cysts I would love to see it counter lerk gas spam.</li><li>Love the new "hitbeep" for marines (or maybe it's just that aliens make a super loud "chunk" when shot), I wish aliens had something similar.</li><li>New lerk spines are cool for up close skirmishing, and I really like how you can siege via arcing them over things, but it would be very nice if we could see if we are actually hitting anything. Make the cursor go blue like it does when you land a snipe?</li><li>When turrets are hit, they seem to jiggle around randomly and its hard to tell where they're aiming. Also looks bad</li><li>All of the summit changes are fantastic</li><li>Gorge heal spray should not do damage, or the amount it does should probably be toned down?</li><li>New fade swing is cool. Stab is still useless and would love to see this replaced with a more team-friendly/strategic ability. 100% energy use: make friendly target invisible for 10 seconds. Something like that.</li><li>Fade crouch is amazing! Gives fades a whole new level of map control and knowledge.</li><li>Marine weapon drop is neat... not completely sure how I feel about it, but it is nice that the mobility of the aliens can longer pick and snipe away the most powerful weapons.</li><li>New cyst system is.... weird. I love that gorge can help the commander with cysts, I hate that any marine can kill them. It feels like it needs an SC2 style thing where they area automatically stealthed and can only be seen after scanned or something.</li><li>The cyst light/dark system is incredible. Takes the guesswork out of spreading infestation, love it.</li><li>Server and/or netcode seems laggier in general</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude what have you been smoking, lerk skill based movement?
Your snipe is not snipe its a low ranged shot,
Fade crouch map control and knowledge woah holy weed (I think I know what you really mean though)
Thanks for the post it certainly caught my eye.
Lerk is stupid.
Fade is stupid.
Slowdown on aliens is stupid.
Shotgun is stupidly good.
But damn I love the polishing on the crosshairs and audio side. Love the hit tick.
Marines is very fun to play now, but it's not fun at all to be on the aliens side.