<!--quoteo(post=1871350:date=Aug 26 2011, 08:57 PM:name=Sops)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sops @ Aug 26 2011, 08:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871350"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you are going to use a mouse and keyboard why not just use a PC?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True that seeing as even laptops with celerons can run source then any reasonably modern desktop should be able to run GO.
<a href="http://www.joystiq.com/2011/08/26/counter-strike-global-offensive-to-have-cross-play-for-ps3-pc/" target="_blank">Crossplatform PS3 vs PC vs MAC. M+K for PS3. 360 excluded.</a>
<!--quoteo(post=1871378:date=Aug 26 2011, 03:13 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Aug 26 2011, 03:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871378"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Still... it's the same damn game. I can't believe this is Valve.
Or rather I can believe they'd do this, I just didn't think they ever would.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They already have done it. Global Offensive is just Condition Zero 2. Same game, same engine, same maps. Just a few new features and better graphics.
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1871378:date=Aug 26 2011, 11:13 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Aug 26 2011, 11:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871378"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Still... it's the same damn game. I can't believe this is Valve.
Or rather I can believe they'd do this, I just didn't think they ever would.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To be fair to valve, if they actually *changed* anything in CS, the current CS fanbase would ###### itself with rage.
<!--quoteo(post=1871380:date=Aug 26 2011, 06:29 PM:name=ANeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ANeM @ Aug 26 2011, 06:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871380"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They already have done it. Global Offensive is just Condition Zero 2. Same game, same engine, same maps. Just a few new features and better graphics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
actually they added a bunch of new weapons and other features irrc.
<!--quoteo(post=1871572:date=Aug 27 2011, 05:39 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Aug 27 2011, 05:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871572"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And achievements.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I am not sure why this is a selling point.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
<!--quoteo(post=1868862:date=Aug 14 2011, 02:59 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Aug 14 2011, 02:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1868862"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well except for all of those third person beatemups and suchlike that work really really well on a console, and I end up playing with a 360 controller anyway when I buy them on PC.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Eh, I'll concede this one. They're built for button-mashing.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And all of those driving and racing games that are really good with analogue controls.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah. If I'm buying a racing wheel anyway, I'll buy it for my computer, where I'll get higher framerates, better visuals, further view distance... and if I'm sticking on a gamepad, I'll spend the $15 for a PS2->USB adapter box. Or just... you know. Buy a PS3 controller and hook it up via bluetooth.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And fighting games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Uh, isn't this the same as the first one you'd listed? Button-mashers. Doesn't matter if they're 2D or 3D.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And halo-style fps games which don't suffer at all for being on a console.
And third person shooters like gears of war which again are largely not improved by being on PC.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <b><i>BAAAAAAAHA</i>HAHAHA!</b> Yeah, no. Originally XBOX and PC could play Halo together. The PC gamers wiped the FLOOR with the console gamers, including J. Random Passerby on the PC against a 'pro' console gamer. People whine and complain about how you can limit the PC controls to allow the console/gamepad users a fair chance, and add auto-aim to consolers, and extra health, and make the PC gamers' shots have a wider field of dispersal (eg: Shadowrun, for all of those), but the fact of the matter is that gamepads SUCK for FPS games. At best, you're just limping along, and the game is being nice to you.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So basically anything that is actually designed for a console generally works very well on a console, and a lot of things are nowadays, consoles have found ways to make all sorts of genres work really well with a controller.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is also why games are held back; being designed around outdated hardware and crap control schemes. And hard-coding to cater to the <acronym title='Cletus Two-Teeth-Left'>lowest common denominator</acronym>, who tends toward consoles as gaming on a PC requires effort and thought beyond 'take it out of the box, hook up to TV, put in game disc'. Which, in retrospect, is generally perfect for the CS crowd.
<!--quoteo(post=1871580:date=Aug 27 2011, 06:33 PM:name=Talesin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talesin @ Aug 27 2011, 06:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871580"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Which, in retrospect, is generally perfect for the CS crowd.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Every some what serious CS player I have known would not fit that description.
<!--quoteo(post=1871580:date=Aug 27 2011, 07:33 PM:name=Talesin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talesin @ Aug 27 2011, 07:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871580"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is also why games are held back; being designed around outdated hardware and crap control schemes. And hard-coding to cater to the <acronym title='Cletus Two-Teeth-Left'>lowest common denominator</acronym>, who tends toward consoles as gaming on a PC requires effort and thought beyond 'take it out of the box, hook up to TV, put in game disc'. Which, in retrospect, is generally perfect for the CS crowd.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This kind of crap can be applied to anything and doesn't even make sense. You sound like an idiot. CS 1.6, one of the most popular FPS games of all time, was exclusively available on the PC. You're showing your ignorance by judging the game, and the developer's intentions, based off how you perceive the public players.
If the game is any kind of popular you can encounter the most annoying people on the internet while playing. Example; HoN. Again, you can find a feature in almost any game and say it's dumbed down for the lowest common denominator. Example; in SC2 you can select multiple buildings and group more than 12 units -- a hard-coded concession to cater to the lowest common denominator.
Hell, look at WoW - it requires the "technical expertise" of installing it, not to mention fiddling around with half a million add-ons, and the game is still full of utter smacktards. Believe me, just because consoles are easier to set up and get going, that doesn't mean they have a monopoly on total horsegroins.
But it's true that control pads are no adequate substitute for mouse & keyboard in terms of first/third-person shooters. Thumbsticks don't match the fine control and speed of a mouse, period, new paragraph.
Essentially, console fps games are the paralympics. You're not allowed to compete if you don't have the same handicap as everyone else.
<!--quoteo(post=1871572:date=Aug 27 2011, 11:39 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Aug 27 2011, 11:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871572"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Way, way better engine from the looks of it.
And achievements.
And slightly modified maps. Where the hell did that side stairway come from in the underpass?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
AFAIK de_dust stopped being played competitively many years ago due to its imbalance? Guess this gives the Ts an option to get in to the map, now.
As someone who has played tons of FPS on both PC and Console Id like to say they are equally good. Sure I can't crouch-jump-180-headshot like on a PC, but most console games still feature player skill/experience as the primary decider of game outcome since everyone playing suffers from the same handicap, and that's all I really ask for. Also, using a keyboard and mouse while lounging in my Papasan is impossible.
On topic, I really hope surfing will still work as that was like my favorite thing about CS.
They're "equally good" if you accept the handicap. If playing an fps with a controller doesn't bother you, it's fine. But if you constantly keep thinking "man this would be so much better with a mouse and keyboard" then obviously a controller is just not going to cut it, and is not equally good. It's like how walking and rolling around in a wheelchair are equally good - both get you exercise (assuming you don't have a motorized wheelchair), and you get better at both with practice. But one of them can't handle stairs.
Luckily PC gaming is kind of coming out of the dark ages again, and anything that is actually worth playing can be played on a PC, where you aren't forced to handicap yourself.
Instead of finally announcing Half-Life 3, Valve has confirmed suspicions something was up with the Counter-Strike franchise the studio has left alone for a few years now.
Did you hear about this one shot kill taser that costs over 9000 dollars in-game? This is gonna be....
Whatever Valve makes though, is usually to test one of their new features. Left 4 Dead had that directors AI thing, Day of Defeat had HDR, Episode 1 had the AI interactions, what will CS:Go have?
wow, haven't played counter strike for ages! maybe time to start again and drop my <a href="http://browsergamez.com/games/" target="_blank"><!--coloro:#C0C0C0--><span style="color:#C0C0C0"><!--/coloro-->browser games<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></a>. somehow i got used to <a href="http://last-chaos.browsergamez.com" target="_blank"><!--coloro:#C0C0C0--><span style="color:#C0C0C0"><!--/coloro-->last chaos<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></a> & co.
So nobody has actually played it then? I had a bash on the PS3 version at Eurogamer last weekend ... it was kinda meh. It seemed like a polished up CSS, some nice new features though. Invitational beta was supposed to start today, I can give you some more detailed feedback on how awful it is compared to 1.6 once it opens up.
@Talesin - fighting games just button mashing? Street Fighter is one of the most technically difficult games to play of any genre on any platform I've ever played. And its <b>amazing</b> because of it.
<!--quoteo(post=1876744:date=Sep 24 2011, 07:12 AM:name=saltybp53)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (saltybp53 @ Sep 24 2011, 07:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1876744"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Did you hear about this one shot kill taser that costs over 9000 dollars in-game? This is gonna be....
Whatever Valve makes though, is usually to test one of their new features. Left 4 Dead had that directors AI thing, Day of Defeat had HDR, Episode 1 had the AI interactions, what will CS:Go have?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1877717:date=Oct 1 2011, 09:52 PM:name=marks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (marks @ Oct 1 2011, 09:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1877717"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So nobody has actually played it then? I had a bash on the PS3 version at Eurogamer last weekend ... it was kinda meh. It seemed like a polished up CSS, some nice new features though. Invitational beta was supposed to start today, I can give you some more detailed feedback on how awful it is compared to 1.6 once it opens up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I saw it briefly at EG and it was on PS3 only so I stayed long enough to see they'd made a few major layout changes to Dust (overall probably good ones) and then went to check out Awesomenauts instead. I wasn't gonna give it a go on PS3 because I know I'd get my ass handed to me.
(I did play BF3 on PS3 to see how they were fitting all the visual effects from the PC onto it. The answer is -at this stage- they are scaling down either the resolution or the textures, and not drawing all the in-world effects that PS3s handle really badly. Overall it still played very well, though.)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@Talesin - fighting games just button mashing? Street Fighter is one of the most technically difficult games to play of any genre on any platform I've ever played. And its <b>amazing</b> because of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owmol4LXAJc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owmol4LXAJc</a>
You won't understand what they're saying some of the time (e.g. "cross-up fake"), but you should be able to tell from the commentators and all the 'technicals' flashing up on screen during intense bouts that the game is technically difficult.
<!--quoteo(post=1876744:date=Sep 24 2011, 02:12 PM:name=saltybp53)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (saltybp53 @ Sep 24 2011, 02:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1876744"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Did you hear about this one shot kill taser that costs over 9000 dollars in-game? This is gonna be....
Whatever Valve makes though, is usually to test one of their new features. Left 4 Dead had that directors AI thing, Day of Defeat had HDR, Episode 1 had the AI interactions, what will CS:Go have?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->My guess would be the free-to-play, competitive model. Maybe with a return to in-game advertising, or microtransations, like TF2.
Some thoughts on the topic of fighting games and button-mashing:
Different games have different levels of play where button-mashing becomes useless. At high-level play, all button-mashing is easily dealt with. But for some games, button-mashing remains feasible until you reach the intermediate level, whereas in other games you will easily be able to wipe the floor with a button-masher after only a few hours of practice. I call this the "button-mashing threshold" or BMT - the more practice it takes before you're able to soundly and consistently beat a button-masher, the higher the BMT of that game. A lower BMT leads to a more enjoyable experience, because you see your labour bear fruit sooner.
If you have played only a few fighting games with high BMT and you have never played them for long enough to actually get above the BMT, thinking that fighting games are all about button-mashing is quite excusable. The blame lies with developers who make high BMT games, not with those who got their impressions of the genre soured by them.
Comments
True that seeing as even laptops with celerons can run source then any reasonably modern desktop should be able to run GO.
Or rather I can believe they'd do this, I just didn't think they ever would.
Or rather I can believe they'd do this, I just didn't think they ever would.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They already have done it. Global Offensive is just Condition Zero 2. Same game, same engine, same maps. Just a few new features and better graphics.
Or rather I can believe they'd do this, I just didn't think they ever would.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To be fair to valve, if they actually *changed* anything in CS, the current CS fanbase would ###### itself with rage.
actually they added a bunch of new weapons and other features irrc.
And achievements.
And slightly modified maps. Where the hell did that side stairway come from in the underpass?
I am not sure why this is a selling point.
Eh, I'll concede this one. They're built for button-mashing.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And all of those driving and racing games that are really good with analogue controls.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah. If I'm buying a racing wheel anyway, I'll buy it for my computer, where I'll get higher framerates, better visuals, further view distance... and if I'm sticking on a gamepad, I'll spend the $15 for a PS2->USB adapter box. Or just... you know. Buy a PS3 controller and hook it up via bluetooth.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And fighting games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh, isn't this the same as the first one you'd listed? Button-mashers. Doesn't matter if they're 2D or 3D.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And halo-style fps games which don't suffer at all for being on a console.
And third person shooters like gears of war which again are largely not improved by being on PC.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b><i>BAAAAAAAHA</i>HAHAHA!</b> Yeah, no. Originally XBOX and PC could play Halo together. The PC gamers wiped the FLOOR with the console gamers, including J. Random Passerby on the PC against a 'pro' console gamer. People whine and complain about how you can limit the PC controls to allow the console/gamepad users a fair chance, and add auto-aim to consolers, and extra health, and make the PC gamers' shots have a wider field of dispersal (eg: Shadowrun, for all of those), but the fact of the matter is that gamepads SUCK for FPS games.
At best, you're just limping along, and the game is being nice to you.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So basically anything that is actually designed for a console generally works very well on a console, and a lot of things are nowadays, consoles have found ways to make all sorts of genres work really well with a controller.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is also why games are held back; being designed around outdated hardware and crap control schemes. And hard-coding to cater to the <acronym title='Cletus Two-Teeth-Left'>lowest common denominator</acronym>, who tends toward consoles as gaming on a PC requires effort and thought beyond 'take it out of the box, hook up to TV, put in game disc'.
Which, in retrospect, is generally perfect for the CS crowd.
Every some what serious CS player I have known would not fit that description.
Which, in retrospect, is generally perfect for the CS crowd.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This kind of crap can be applied to anything and doesn't even make sense. You sound like an idiot. CS 1.6, one of the most popular FPS games of all time, was exclusively available on the PC. You're showing your ignorance by judging the game, and the developer's intentions, based off how you perceive the public players.
If the game is any kind of popular you can encounter the most annoying people on the internet while playing. Example; HoN. Again, you can find a feature in almost any game and say it's dumbed down for the lowest common denominator. Example; in SC2 you can select multiple buildings and group more than 12 units -- a hard-coded concession to cater to the lowest common denominator.
But it's true that control pads are no adequate substitute for mouse & keyboard in terms of first/third-person shooters. Thumbsticks don't match the fine control and speed of a mouse, period, new paragraph.
Essentially, console fps games are the paralympics. You're not allowed to compete if you don't have the same handicap as everyone else.
And achievements.
And slightly modified maps. Where the hell did that side stairway come from in the underpass?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
AFAIK de_dust stopped being played competitively many years ago due to its imbalance? Guess this gives the Ts an option to get in to the map, now.
On topic, I really hope surfing will still work as that was like my favorite thing about CS.
It's like how walking and rolling around in a wheelchair are equally good - both get you exercise (assuming you don't have a motorized wheelchair), and you get better at both with practice. But one of them can't handle stairs.
Luckily PC gaming is kind of coming out of the dark ages again, and anything that is actually worth playing can be played on a PC, where you aren't forced to handicap yourself.
Whatever Valve makes though, is usually to test one of their new features. Left 4 Dead had that directors AI thing, Day of Defeat had HDR, Episode 1 had the AI interactions, what will CS:Go have?
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<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->kultan <a href="http://remanum.browsergamez.com/" target="_blank"><!--coloro:#808080--><span style="color:#808080"><!--/coloro-->remanum<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></a><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
@Talesin - fighting games just button mashing? Street Fighter is one of the most technically difficult games to play of any genre on any platform I've ever played. And its <b>amazing</b> because of it.
Whatever Valve makes though, is usually to test one of their new features. Left 4 Dead had that directors AI thing, Day of Defeat had HDR, Episode 1 had the AI interactions, what will CS:Go have?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Competitive cross platform multiplayer.
(I did play BF3 on PS3 to see how they were fitting all the visual effects from the PC onto it. The answer is -at this stage- they are scaling down either the resolution or the textures, and not drawing all the in-world effects that PS3s handle really badly. Overall it still played very well, though.)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@Talesin - fighting games just button mashing? Street Fighter is one of the most technically difficult games to play of any genre on any platform I've ever played. And its <b>amazing</b> because of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owmol4LXAJc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owmol4LXAJc</a>
You won't understand what they're saying some of the time (e.g. "cross-up fake"), but you should be able to tell from the commentators and all the 'technicals' flashing up on screen during intense bouts that the game is technically difficult.
<!--quoteo(post=1876744:date=Sep 24 2011, 02:12 PM:name=saltybp53)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (saltybp53 @ Sep 24 2011, 02:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1876744"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Did you hear about this one shot kill taser that costs over 9000 dollars in-game? This is gonna be....
Whatever Valve makes though, is usually to test one of their new features. Left 4 Dead had that directors AI thing, Day of Defeat had HDR, Episode 1 had the AI interactions, what will CS:Go have?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->My guess would be the free-to-play, competitive model. Maybe with a return to in-game advertising, or microtransations, like TF2.
Different games have different levels of play where button-mashing becomes useless. At high-level play, all button-mashing is easily dealt with. But for some games, button-mashing remains feasible until you reach the intermediate level, whereas in other games you will easily be able to wipe the floor with a button-masher after only a few hours of practice. I call this the "button-mashing threshold" or BMT - the more practice it takes before you're able to soundly and consistently beat a button-masher, the higher the BMT of that game. A lower BMT leads to a more enjoyable experience, because you see your labour bear fruit sooner.
If you have played only a few fighting games with high BMT and you have never played them for long enough to actually get above the BMT, thinking that fighting games are all about button-mashing is quite excusable. The blame lies with developers who make high BMT games, not with those who got their impressions of the genre soured by them.
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<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><a href="http://wizard101.browsergames.co.uk/" target="_blank"><!--coloro:#C0C0C0--><span style="color:#C0C0C0"><!--/coloro-->wizard 101<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></a><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
1.6 isn't half bad; but the hit-boxes changed drastically.