<!--quoteo(post=1870021:date=Aug 19 2011, 12:50 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Aug 19 2011, 12:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870021"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's the entire point of the complaint, moron, I shouldn't have to do that.
DERP
The same reason it doesn't even have a bandwidth *limiter*, are you seriously telling me the idiots behind Steam never once thought about how that could be necessary? That it hasn't been suggested thousands of times since then?
No really, a tiny program made by one guy for free to download torrents can get all these features, Valve's making a million or more a day on theirs, and they can't find time to patch it in?
Of course, Crispy, ironically you completely missed the point in your desperate attempt to defend Valve's honor and be a <!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->Keep it civil. -Talesin<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> - people are stupid enough to think they're "gamer-friendly" when extremely simple, obvious features that are seen in every other program on earth that downloads large files are and have been conspicuously absent from Valve's program, and even though their customers have been asking for these features they never once acknowledge the customer and you will never, ever see it show up. Because Valve <b>does not care</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->lalz.
If you paid attention to any of the posts I've written on these very forums about Valve's attitude to games and the Steam platform you would see that I appreciate the good and criticise the bad in equal measure.
What you're asking for is someone (a.k.a. a crystal ball-em-up) to hold your hand and tell you how to regulate your own internet usage. My point is most adults can do this themselves and if Valve are to focus their attentions on something worthwhile to improve the Steam experience, it's not a mechanised solution for motor-deficient troglodytes that benefits a fraction of the userbase.
When you decide what your next point of call is for software development you generally tend to the majority, because that makes sense. The majority of people are not incapable of pressing a button that says "stop downloading lots of datoids, I hav 2 pay 4 dose mkay?".
<!--quoteo(post=1870469:date=Aug 22 2011, 04:19 PM:name=saltybp53)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (saltybp53 @ Aug 22 2011, 04:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870469"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In BF2, I love doing Hind D Gunship runs. Russian helicopters were the best! I hope there's a Hind D in Bf3! What do you want in BF3, mister?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1870419:date=Aug 21 2011, 11:37 PM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Crispy @ Aug 21 2011, 11:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870419"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->motor-deficient troglodytes<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm going to remember that one for later use.
<!--quoteo(post=1870513:date=Aug 22 2011, 01:42 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Aug 22 2011, 01:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870513"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No I'm serious, I don't have my PC turned on unless I'm using it, because they're quite power hungry.
I really don't see why you'd leave your PC on constantly and then complain that it's costing you money.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1870513:date=Aug 22 2011, 08:42 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Aug 22 2011, 08:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870513"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No I'm serious, I don't have my PC turned on unless I'm using it, because they're quite power hungry.
I really don't see why you'd leave your PC on constantly and then complain that it's costing you money.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> They're not really. Most are around 20 light bulbs. Constantly turning a PC on and off significantly decreases it's lifespan. Plus, all your torrents stop :(
<!--quoteo(post=1870739:date=Aug 23 2011, 06:05 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Swiftspear @ Aug 23 2011, 06:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870739"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They're not really. Most are around 20 light bulbs. Constantly turning a PC on and off significantly decreases it's lifespan. Plus, all your torrents stop :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your PC is going to become outdated far sooner than it's going to die from mechnaical failure due to being turned on and off.
And 20 light bulbs is sort of like leaving every light in your house on when you go out. That's a lot of power.
I would imagine the best method would be looking at the average power supply a computer uses, as they are generally rated for a certain wattage if I recall correctly.
That's going to tell you next to nothing though, because that's merely what they're rated for. My computer has a 650W power supply, I guarantee you it rarely if ever draws that much. You'd get a more accurate figure if you looked at the power consumption of all the individual parts of the computer. But even those are not going to give you an accurate figure because those are what the parts consume at peak load, which again they won't be drawing when the computer is idle. Add to THAT that there's some loss of power in the PSU itself and you just add even more difficult-or-impossible-to-know variables to the mix.
The only way you're getting a figure that is in any way useful is by sticking a wattmeter inbetween your computer and the wall socket. Ideally a watthourmeter so you can measure what it uses over longer periods of time and figure out an average value.
<!--quoteo(post=1870802:date=Aug 23 2011, 11:59 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Aug 23 2011, 11:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870802"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's going to tell you next to nothing though, because that's merely what they're rated for. My computer has a 650W power supply, I guarantee you it rarely if ever draws that much. You'd get a more accurate figure if you looked at the power consumption of all the individual parts of the computer. But even those are not going to give you an accurate figure because those are what the parts consume at peak load, which again they won't be drawing when the computer is idle. Add to THAT that there's some loss of power in the PSU itself and you just add even more difficult-or-impossible-to-know variables to the mix.
The only way you're getting a figure that is in any way useful is by sticking a wattmeter inbetween your computer and the wall socket. Ideally a watthourmeter so you can measure what it uses over longer periods of time and figure out an average value.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh true, but you can sort of assume that if a PC is rated for a huge power supply (and wouldn't work with a smaller one) then it's somewhere in the ballpark.
But yeah if you could get like a plug-in multimeter or something that you can use as a bridge between your extension lead and the wall that'd give you an accurate reading. Don't know if they actually make those though.
"Somewhere in the ballpark" can still be far off the mark. A PC with a 1000W power supply could easily be drawing only 200W when idle, which means you'd be off by a factor of five. That's the difference between twenty lightbulbs and four. Assuming a lightbulb is fifty watt. Which I don't know, since I don't know which kind of lightbulb we're talking about.
So if all we want is "somewhere in the ballpark," I'd say to expect from 100-300W for the average home PC. Which is just a wild guess really, but who cares if we're not concerned about accuracy. If we ARE concerned about any kind of accuracy, taking some measurements is the only way to go.
Or you can use something like this: <a href="http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp" target="_blank">http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp</a>
If you have two computers, spend a month with one on and one off? Check your power bill?
Oh this is getting silly. Just turn off your damn PCs when not in use. Save the planet. At least until you wear it out faster and have to buy more computer the production of which hurts the earth! NO MATTER WHAT WE DO WE END UP HURTING EARTH!
This irrational hatred of wattmeters is getting silly, that's what's getting silly. Just stick a goddamn wattmeter in there and you know what your computer uses! No point in fiddling around with guesstimates based on inaccurate figures that will ultimately tell you jack ###### about how much your computer uses anyway. WHY IS EVERYONE HELLBENT ON SUGGESTING ###### WAYS OF FIGURING OUT HOW MUCH POWER YOUR COMPUTER USES WHEN I'VE JUST OFFERED A PERFECTLY WORKABLE ONE THAT ACTUALLY GIVES USEFUL FIGURES GODDAMMIT I WILL START THROWING CHAIRS AROUND.
<!--quoteo(post=1870979:date=Aug 24 2011, 09:02 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Aug 24 2011, 09:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870979"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I WANT TO BE MAD AND SCREAM AT RANDOM PEOPLE AS WELL, SO YEAH HERE I AM SCREAMING IN THE GENERAL DIRECTION OF THE INTERNET RAISING MY FIST OF DEWM!!!
I love how this thread is going places beyond the realm of BF3 :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wattmeters are arguably more interesting than the battlefield franchise at this point.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1871023:date=Aug 24 2011, 10:16 PM:name=Scythe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scythe @ Aug 24 2011, 10:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871023"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've got a wattmeter attached to my house. It's using 650W at the moment. I could turn my computer off and see how much it drops.
But that would involve turning my computer off.
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Or you could turn everything else off and see how that goes...
<!--quoteo(post=1870938:date=Aug 24 2011, 12:22 PM:name=Sops)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sops @ Aug 24 2011, 12:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870938"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe when I get a SSD, until then I want my computer ready to go all the time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> How about sleep mode?
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
edited August 2011
Yeah, bought a Kill-a-watt. My 750W PSU is on-average (non-gaming, computer idle for an hour to let the disks sleep) drawing between 130-180W. In my case, 6 light bulbs is 36-90W (depending on if it's the LED bulbs or the CFLs). So I indeed could run all the lights in my house and likely burn less power than running my computer. Problem being, a lightbulb doesn't give me remote access to all my files. Maybe I'll shut it down after I get wake-on-LAN working properly by setting up static MAC routing, so my switches don't forget where my computer is. Until then, I can afford the extra $40/mo (give or take).
And you buy a PSU with more capacity than you NEED so that you stay within tolerances. The rating *is* only the peak load draw, and not normally intended as a sustained draw. Too cheap/weak a PSU, and you end up with all kinds of instability. Too strong, and you waste a *little* more power due to the heavier power conversion circuitry.
Back to the topic! Origin sucks. EA is full of greedy marketroids/executives who don't understand that everyone is hating them a little more with every fragment of soul they force their players to give up to play the latest rehashed edition of the same game they've been making for years, and need to be cleansed with fire. Then again, the same solution could be suggested for a majority of executives/marketroids in general. And nothing of value would be lost.
<!--quoteo(post=1870938:date=Aug 24 2011, 05:22 PM:name=Sops)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sops @ Aug 24 2011, 05:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870938"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe when I get a SSD, until then I want my computer ready to go all the time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Solid state hard drives are a weird idea to me.
I can't imagine that using flash memory which has a habit of deteriorating with use, as a permanent storage medium which is constantly in use, is exactly a brilliant idea.
I know it's fast, but I'd rather buy a good quality disc drive and a heap of ram, or two disc drives and set up a RAID or something.
Hard drives are proabably the one thing in the computer you really don't want to fail, more or less anything else can be replaced with no loss, but unless you keep regular backups you can't replace data loss.
<!--quoteo(post=1871185:date=Aug 25 2011, 04:12 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Aug 25 2011, 04:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871185"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Solid state hard drives are a weird idea to me.
I can't imagine that using flash memory which has a habit of deteriorating with use, as a permanent storage medium which is constantly in use, is exactly a brilliant idea.
I know it's fast, but I'd rather buy a good quality disc drive and a heap of ram, or two disc drives and set up a RAID or something.
Hard drives are proabably the one thing in the computer you really don't want to fail, more or less anything else can be replaced with no loss, but unless you keep regular backups you can't replace data loss.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well you're most permanent storage medium is stone. Then probably paper. Disc drives certainly aren't permanent. If you aren't keeping regular back ups and would fret about lost data, then you need to start. I think the latest word is that properly set up SSDs live just as long as magnetic drives.
[Edit] And okay, we hate Origin. How bout we all get it on 360?
Well they don't fail, do they? They just lose the ability to write. And that's after what, 10 000 uses? Plus that's for each individual cell, and there are load balancers (whatever the equivalent is called) for modern SSDs.
<!--quoteo(post=1871162:date=Aug 25 2011, 01:35 PM:name=Talesin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talesin @ Aug 25 2011, 01:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871162"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Problem being, a lightbulb doesn't give me remote access to all my files.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Or <a href="http://www.elightbulbs.com/lighting-blog/LED-Light-Can-Transfer-Data" target="_blank">does it?!</a>
Comments
DERP
The same reason it doesn't even have a bandwidth *limiter*, are you seriously telling me the idiots behind Steam never once thought about how that could be necessary? That it hasn't been suggested thousands of times since then?
No really, a tiny program made by one guy for free to download torrents can get all these features, Valve's making a million or more a day on theirs, and they can't find time to patch it in?
Of course, Crispy, ironically you completely missed the point in your desperate attempt to defend Valve's honor and be a <!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->Keep it civil. -Talesin<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> - people are stupid enough to think they're "gamer-friendly" when extremely simple, obvious features that are seen in every other program on earth that downloads large files are and have been conspicuously absent from Valve's program, and even though their customers have been asking for these features they never once acknowledge the customer and you will never, ever see it show up. Because Valve <b>does not care</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->lalz.
If you paid attention to any of the posts I've written on these very forums about Valve's attitude to games and the Steam platform you would see that I appreciate the good and criticise the bad in equal measure.
What you're asking for is someone (a.k.a. a crystal ball-em-up) to hold your hand and tell you how to regulate your own internet usage. My point is most adults can do this themselves and if Valve are to focus their attentions on something worthwhile to improve the Steam experience, it's not a mechanised solution for motor-deficient troglodytes that benefits a fraction of the userbase.
When you decide what your next point of call is for software development you generally tend to the majority, because that makes sense. The majority of people are not incapable of pressing a button that says "stop downloading lots of datoids, I hav 2 pay 4 dose mkay?".
Steamworks.
--Scythe--
I'm going to remember that one for later use.
No I'm serious, I don't have my PC turned on unless I'm using it, because they're quite power hungry.
I really don't see why you'd leave your PC on constantly and then complain that it's costing you money.
I really don't see why you'd leave your PC on constantly and then complain that it's costing you money.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He is clearly an idiot. That's why.
I really don't see why you'd leave your PC on constantly and then complain that it's costing you money.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They're not really. Most are around 20 light bulbs. Constantly turning a PC on and off significantly decreases it's lifespan. Plus, all your torrents stop :(
Your PC is going to become outdated far sooner than it's going to die from mechnaical failure due to being turned on and off.
And 20 light bulbs is sort of like leaving every light in your house on when you go out. That's a lot of power.
The only way you're getting a figure that is in any way useful is by sticking a wattmeter inbetween your computer and the wall socket. Ideally a watthourmeter so you can measure what it uses over longer periods of time and figure out an average value.
The only way you're getting a figure that is in any way useful is by sticking a wattmeter inbetween your computer and the wall socket. Ideally a watthourmeter so you can measure what it uses over longer periods of time and figure out an average value.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh true, but you can sort of assume that if a PC is rated for a huge power supply (and wouldn't work with a smaller one) then it's somewhere in the ballpark.
But yeah if you could get like a plug-in multimeter or something that you can use as a bridge between your extension lead and the wall that'd give you an accurate reading. Don't know if they actually make those though.
So if all we want is "somewhere in the ballpark," I'd say to expect from 100-300W for the average home PC. Which is just a wild guess really, but who cares if we're not concerned about accuracy. If we ARE concerned about any kind of accuracy, taking some measurements is the only way to go.
Oh this is getting silly. Just turn off your damn PCs when not in use. Save the planet. At least until you wear it out faster and have to buy more computer the production of which hurts the earth! NO MATTER WHAT WE DO WE END UP HURTING EARTH!
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/GkcN5.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I love how this thread is going places beyond the realm of BF3 :P
<a href="http://www.giantbomb.com/news/eas-origin-service-is-basically-spyware-according-to-origins-eula/3616/" target="_blank">http://www.giantbomb.com/news/eas-origin-s...gins-eula/3616/</a>
I love how this thread is going places beyond the realm of BF3 :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wattmeters are arguably more interesting than the battlefield franchise at this point.
But that would involve turning my computer off.
--Scythe--
But that would involve turning my computer off.
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or you could turn everything else off and see how that goes...
How about sleep mode?
In my case, 6 light bulbs is 36-90W (depending on if it's the LED bulbs or the CFLs). So I indeed could run all the lights in my house and likely burn less power than running my computer. Problem being, a lightbulb doesn't give me remote access to all my files.
Maybe I'll shut it down after I get wake-on-LAN working properly by setting up static MAC routing, so my switches don't forget where my computer is. Until then, I can afford the extra $40/mo (give or take).
And you buy a PSU with more capacity than you NEED so that you stay within tolerances. The rating *is* only the peak load draw, and not normally intended as a sustained draw. Too cheap/weak a PSU, and you end up with all kinds of instability. Too strong, and you waste a *little* more power due to the heavier power conversion circuitry.
Back to the topic! Origin sucks. EA is full of greedy marketroids/executives who don't understand that everyone is hating them a little more with every fragment of soul they force their players to give up to play the latest rehashed edition of the same game they've been making for years, and need to be cleansed with fire. Then again, the same solution could be suggested for a majority of executives/marketroids in general. And nothing of value would be lost.
Solid state hard drives are a weird idea to me.
I can't imagine that using flash memory which has a habit of deteriorating with use, as a permanent storage medium which is constantly in use, is exactly a brilliant idea.
I know it's fast, but I'd rather buy a good quality disc drive and a heap of ram, or two disc drives and set up a RAID or something.
Hard drives are proabably the one thing in the computer you really don't want to fail, more or less anything else can be replaced with no loss, but unless you keep regular backups you can't replace data loss.
I can't imagine that using flash memory which has a habit of deteriorating with use, as a permanent storage medium which is constantly in use, is exactly a brilliant idea.
I know it's fast, but I'd rather buy a good quality disc drive and a heap of ram, or two disc drives and set up a RAID or something.
Hard drives are proabably the one thing in the computer you really don't want to fail, more or less anything else can be replaced with no loss, but unless you keep regular backups you can't replace data loss.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well you're most permanent storage medium is stone. Then probably paper. Disc drives certainly aren't permanent. If you aren't keeping regular back ups and would fret about lost data, then you need to start. I think the latest word is that properly set up SSDs live just as long as magnetic drives.
[Edit]
And okay, we hate Origin. How bout we all get it on 360?
/me ducks
Or <a href="http://www.elightbulbs.com/lighting-blog/LED-Light-Can-Transfer-Data" target="_blank">does it?!</a>