something

konata

<div class="IPBDescription">ideas / help / map thread blah</div>Part of my WIP, looking for more of a theme. Ideas on what to put in the out of reach areas behind the windows? (ignore all the other arch / lites that are not complete)

<img src="http://i.imgur.com/CBwYN.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

fmpone

Excellent start. Keep in mind those windows are icy, they'll block your view pretty well.

Trainee.ger

i like that pretty much everything in the ceiling is geometry, not props :)

konata

<img src="http://i.imgur.com/rsmFe.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

Was thinking rocks/pipes for outside maybe? Pretty much inspired by Ayumi start, simple and clean. Not sure what to do next with this though, hit a wall.

Evil_bOb1

Real nice i like it.

Don't know what to do? Move on to next room. If your new room teaches you more you can come back to MS for tweaks.

:D

fmpone

I like it. I like it about 10x more than your personality :P :D:D

If you've hit a wall, that's because you've about finished that area in my opinion. Some ideas:

-Tear up the bottom tiles (this may not suit the clean stye you're after)
-Add some dramatic shadows across a wall or two
-Add some texture-based lights
-Add some hanging wires/cables that sweep across the whole scene
-Implement some fans or other dynamic stuff

Jonacrab

looks nice, perhaps too much lighting on that ceiling, make use of some darker areas to give it some contrast. If those windows lead outside you should use lights to simulate either sunlight coming in, or just some point lights kinda creating a rim lighting around the windows to give it a feeling of light coming into the room. Good start though. If you are planning on finishing the map, I would suggest laying out a mock-up of the whole map... it would really suck to fully detail a room just to have to scrap it later because it doesnt fit the map, or is not balanced. Having a detailed, but not finished version of the map to test with should be your goal.

konata

Updated WIP,

<img src="http://i.imgur.com/BxchX.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

Obraxis

Looking good there :-) Keep going!

Kouji_San

I like the clean look it has, quite a unique style :)

Heroman117

Very interesting design, as Fmpone said those windows have ice on them, so possibly a arctic theme surrounding the outside of the map, it may require custom materials and whatnot but it'd definitely give the map a unique feel.

Just curious,what layout, how many tech points, resource points, and what do you plan to name your map? if your struggling to come up with any of these i'm sure we can help you out.

Electr0

I also quite like the clean open style, it's not as dark and cluttered as others, try to keep it up and it should be good.

Twiggeh

Imho the floor is too flat, if you would play around some with elevations then that room might really pop.

BJHBnade_spammer

i like the feal and the windows make it look like it is raining out side leave the room how it is and move on to the next you can always come back and re do this one later

konata

<!--quoteo(post=1883438:date=Nov 3 2011, 03:40 PM:name=Twiggeh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Twiggeh @ Nov 3 2011, 03:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883438"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Imho the floor is too flat, if you would play around some with elevations then that room might really pop.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The room is a tech point. It is a build area. I'm not going to put random elevations inside this basic room.

Zuriki

<!--quoteo(post=1883635:date=Nov 4 2011, 07:48 AM:name=konata)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (konata @ Nov 4 2011, 07:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883635"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The room is a tech point. It is a build area. I'm not going to put random elevations inside this basic room.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think he was suggesting that the floor looks like it's been "painted on". It contrasts with the geometry of the rest of the room.

konata

I got bored and through reading random forums threads found out that players are more frustrated than I am with ridiculous wall walking, so I thought I'd start with a simple clean corridor as an extension to the tech point. Hopefully it's not too simple, I'd rather go for gameplay than these amazingly complex visuals

<img src="http://i.imgur.com/bbqkj.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

PS. There's some minor elevation there, wowee!

Evil_bOb1

Nice job! Simple is in fact something that takes a lot of thought if you want to make it look good and eliminate the box.

fmpone

It's an interesting approach, and I don't think there is anything wrong at all with flatness in general. Where you can have more success is if you use your lighting to add detail that you are smoothing out with your geometry. I'd recommend a cool lighting style with your particular texture set. Also keep in mind that people can tire of one particular color, so if I were you I might mix in some warmer colors in spurts, to give the map a variety of lighting. That way you can still keep the smoothness and ease of movement on your geometry, and have a visually exciting style.

Keep it up, and keep posting more shots.

konata

I was in a mapping mood so I thought I'd continue it

The computer lighting is a bit too strong to be honest and it's not finished but bleh, why not show,

<img src="http://i.imgur.com/Vcmpg.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

It's not going to set the world on fire but a suggestion or two may help

fmpone

Here are some basic rules to live by, if you're like me: 1-2 colors per scene. 1 dominant color. The colors are complimentary. No white, unless absolutely necessary. Right now your lighting is all washed out white, and if you ask me, too bright. I'd bet you've got lights with big ranges like 200-300, when those lights that are realistically supporting it, in the ceiling for instance, are tiny and no way should realistically be lighting that scene. That's why it looks weird: two little pin lights in the ceiling are blooming up the whole hallway.

konata

There are more than two of those lights in that scene. There are six.

fmpone

Can't say I noticed or cared. The lighting is illogical.

Chris0132

Lighting looks fine to me. Don't know if you've looked at real life very much but one thing it does that videogames don't is bounce lighting. As in, any light source will bounce all over the place and fill out a room, more like gas than anything.

Like right now, my computer monitor is lighting my entire bedroom, it's not that bright, but it is constant throughout the room more or less.

Personally I like being able to see the map, rather than it being horribly dark, it fits the clean theme, looks a bit like an NS1 map actually.

konata

Wow fmpone. If you've got nothing constructive to say, please don't post.

And yeah Chris, I'm aiming for a more NS1 style. A lot of feedback I see on the forums are that maps seem too dark and that wall walking seems impractical because walls are just junked up with props. So I'm looking to place them better with a hard theme, something Veil and Eclipse did really well was sticking hard to a theme and not moving from it and I hope NS2 players will appreciate that.

Too many designers are focusing too much on propping up and making it look like they've put a lot of effort in to it when they're distracting from the fact they've not actually thought about the game play or what their map is actually about in way of theme. I'm going simpler and hopefully, this'll give improved game play and atmosphere.

Magneto

<!--quoteo(post=1883850:date=Nov 5 2011, 06:03 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Nov 5 2011, 06:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883850"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Personally I like being able to see the map, rather than it being horribly dark, it fits the clean theme, looks a bit like an NS1 map actually.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Same here, not everyone wants to play on dark maps, the lighting models may be a bit small but a small bulb can output a lot of light so im not sure it's so illogical as he thinks, also i agree with konata about the use of models to add detail, too many over use them, pipes and grating everywhere gets old, there's something to be said for the simpler style and i hope more mappers realise it.

Chris0132

Use of props isn't a bad thing, but all the refinery props tend to be very steep, as in they are all big bulky pillars or deep recessed panels and the like, and it kinda breaks up the overall structure.

Now that isn't necessarily a bad thing, those computers for example add a nice bit of detail with their geometrical complexity, but they work because they contrast nicely with the much flatter walls.

Plus, you can add geometric detail without it looking cluttered, those nice octagonal floor plates you had in the other picture look very nice, and more floor tiles on that theme would go nicely.

<img src="http://i.imgur.com/BxchX.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

Looking at this image for example, you see the roof has plenty of detail in it, but it is done in such a way that it doesn't make the room cluttered, the detail is set into a natural recess of the design, and there is plenty of clean space around it so the room is nice and open.

The cluttered theme does work, but all the maps currently use it, and I'd like some variety, this is much more along the lines of the biodome theme they showed at the end of the mineshaft teaser, and I am glad that both are going to be in the game.

If I had one suggestion, your corners need chamfering. They look too harsh at the moment, so a slight chamfer to just soften the transition a bit would go a long way. I don't think spark has a chamfer tool admittedly, but you could achieve the same effect by slicing a line next to the one on the corner, and then positioning the two so they soften the corner a bit. Or you could try overlaying the corners with some props, if you can find one that fits. You could also possibly put some minor geometric density on your wall plates, not enough to make it look cluttered, but so that when you get closer the detail comes into view, and it doesn't look 'low res' I suppose you'd call it.

cron

In the last screen you posted there was one big downer for me and that was the ramp to the right. Replace it with stairs, that would be ten times more interesting to look at.

/personal opinion

konata

I'm not fond of stairs as they completely nerf alien movement in both NS1 and NS2 and make it difficult for them. However, they do look better and I can add a trim to the sides so yeah, it's look a lot better with minimal play impact.

<img src="http://i.imgur.com/Oxw6T.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

pSyk0mAn

Most stair props use a simplified physics mesh in ns2, which means it's basicly acting like a ramp.
You can check out the stair props and their physics with the viewer.exe by activating view->physics.

konata

Probably the last thing for this weekend, just wanted to get the area completed as a whole, complete with resource node

<img src="http://i.imgur.com/3EXv8.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />