[185]Lerk shotgun spikes needs to be adjusted
swalk
Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<div class="IPBDescription">Lerks should not be assassins, they are support and finishers.</div>The lerk shotgun spikes do too much DPS.
They can assassinate a marine in a very short time.
There is no cooldown on shotgun spikes and you can fire 4 fast shots before you run out of adrenaline.
This works at close and medium range, and it is making the lerk a deadly assassinator just like the fade.
There needs to be a cooldown, to solve this problem.
They can assassinate a marine in a very short time.
There is no cooldown on shotgun spikes and you can fire 4 fast shots before you run out of adrenaline.
This works at close and medium range, and it is making the lerk a deadly assassinator just like the fade.
There needs to be a cooldown, to solve this problem.
Comments
I agree Lerks should be Support but UWE said that the Lerk should also be a CC Unit so in CC it should be quiet deadly.
The cooldown is pretty much not there :P
I also have a bad feeling that melee spores are gonna be too dangerous for the lerk later on when performance is smoother. But we will just have to wait and see.
I'd like a visualization of the Lerk alternate though, because as it stands I have no feel for what my cone of damage is, so I generally just use it like it were a close range hitscan sniper rifle.
I'd like a visualization of the Lerk alternate though, because as it stands I have no feel for what my cone of damage is, so I generally just use it like it were a close range hitscan sniper rifle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, the alt attack is a problem as it doesn't really have a cooldown.
You know how to do what I posted in my last comment. You did that, this weekend when you played in the mix with Inv against us.
You guys really don't see this as a problem? A lerk assassinating people, just like a fade? Cloak or no cloak.
I play lerk, and I think that this needs to be fixed.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmZCALqnXzU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmZCALqnXzU</a>
2 Shotgun spikes to kill a vanilla marine.
This means that you can kill two marines in before running out of adrenaline, if you're good enough.
When marines get armor 1 it takes 3 shots, after that the amount of shots needed to kill doesnt change.
Note that I didn't fire as quick as i could some times, because of low frame rates with fraps.
You guys seriously don't think it's a problem?
Imagine lerks with adrenaline. GG rifles.
Joke aside, I don't use the shotgun spikes much at the moment tbh. it feels cheap.
Double adrenaline cost and make a longer cooldown.
And double adrenaline cost. That would balance it out I think.
And on a sidenode, lerk spore sound keeps playing when you stop firing it :P
Useless? It won't be useless just because you cant spam it and deal insane amounts of damage in very short time.
It kills with 3 shots outside the deadly zone of a shottys range. And you got adrenaline for 4.
It should be a reliable move to finish off a marine that is low on health.
Not an ability you can spam and solo one or two marines with before you have to wait for adrenaline.
I think the re-balancing needs to be done to prevent whole teams from going Lerk in one rush!
It kills with 3 shots outside the deadly zone of a shottys range. And you got adrenaline for 4.
It should be a reliable move to finish off a marine that is low on health.
Not an ability you can spam and solo one or two marines with before you have to wait for adrenaline.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I actually haven't tried shooting it from that range. If it does the same damage that far away, that's what needs tweaking, not so much the ROF or energy drain. Shotgun spikes should be very SHORT range. Not quite as short as the old NS1 lerk bite, but definitely shorter than the marine shotgun.
Having it as a "reliable move to finish off a marine" doesn't work at all. When server and client FPS improves, lerks will be forced to use shotgun spikes as their primary weapon, because flying around shooting rapid fire spikes will be suicidal. Anything else would make the lerk a pure support class, which is a pretty bad idea as the aliens already have a pure support class (gorge) and need a combat class to transition between skulks and fades. The lerk can be great in that respect; early-mid game it's equal parts combat and support, mid-late game it's mostly support.
Why exactly wouldn't it work with double the adrenaline cost?
In the early game you will be able to kill a marine in about 1s or whatever the cooldown should be.
I also think you are forgetting spores are able to blind marines, and that they are not that useless. Actually thats making them pretty useful.
Compare it to lerk bite in NS1 and then think.
<!--quoteo(post=1875786:date=Sep 20 2011, 03:26 PM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Sep 20 2011, 03:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1875786"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In the early game you will be able to kill a marine in about 1s or whatever the cooldown should be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS1 lerks could theoretically do that too, but they still weren't overpowered because the lerk had to take big risks to hit the marine. Obviously if the range continues to be as long as it apparently is now, shotgun spikes need to be nerfed significantly because lerks won't have to take the same risks to hit the marine.
<!--quoteo(post=1875786:date=Sep 20 2011, 03:26 PM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Sep 20 2011, 03:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1875786"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I also think you are forgetting spores are able to blind marines, and that they are not that useless. Actually thats making them pretty useful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lerk spores are very powerful at the moment. As soon as fps improves, they will become very weak beacuse of the extreme risk the lerks will have to take to drop them on marines. I didn't mention the spores, which is the support half of the lerk, because it's going to be obvious soon enough that they will have to be changed.
If this is in response to my post, you do not comprehend.
Maybe the fault lies with you. MAYBE. ;)
(*hint hint* the secondary attack is a shotgun. That should help you get up to speed.)
Anyways, as per request, I will fully flesh out what I had said earlier.
Basically, the issue Swalk has, is that the Lerk can almost insta-kill a marine with the secondary Lerk shotgun attack.
So how do we fix this problem? Well, I suggested increasing the shotgun range, and cone of fire, and institute a maximum damage/marine concept. This will shift the weapon's optimal usage from being close range and high damage, to the originally intended usage of doing damage to several marines clustered together at close to mid-range. Ironically this would work as an area of effect attack as you suggested, but I don't think the imagined projectiles should go through marines and hit people behind them, so the hitscan shotgun approach is ideal imo.
Yeah, *agrees with fanatic* That's what Spores are for..
<!--quoteo(post=1875793:date=Sep 20 2011, 11:13 AM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Sep 20 2011, 11:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1875793"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->rather than a high damage close range assassination tool like it is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Isn't it supposed to be? Flying by, gasing the area, fly back and try to aim the shotgun spikes into marines and pick them off by focusing on them? (alternatively using "machine gun-spikes" for a carpet bombing run, for those "spread out marines")
Just a small CD added would solve the issue, no need for a higher adrenaline cost or nerfed damage.
Isn't it supposed to be? Flying by, gasing the area, fly back and try to aim the shotgun spikes into marines and pick them off by focusing on them? (alternatively using "machine gun-spikes" for a carpet bombing run, for those "spread out marines")
Just a small CD added would solve the issue, no need for a higher adrenaline cost or nerfed damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course there is need for a higher adrenaline cost, as powerful as this attack is.
You should not be able to take out two vanilla marines with full health before running out of adrenaline with this attack. Being able to pick off one marine before having to retreat to get adrenaline, should be enough.
It should be an attack to finish off a marine if you got lots of adrenaline left, not an attack you should be able to keep using constantly.
You fix one issue by creating a new one. Your suggestion basically turns shotgun spikes into rapid fire spikes but with burst damage instead of continuous damage. Slightly less useless while maneuvering out of accurate marine fire, but still useless enough that you're turning the Lerk into a pure support class. Lerks need a way to deal high damage in a short period of time to a single target (which you've excluded by adding a cap to the damage to single targets) to be useful in combat against marine weapons.
Besides, another way to deal damage to several marines at once isn't even needed because we already have spores.
You should not be able to take out two vanilla marines with full health before running out of adrenaline with this attack. Being able to pick off one marine before having to retreat to get adrenaline, should be enough.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You should have to retreat due to being under fire, which comes by being exposed too long, coming from my suggested CD.
That would make it ideal for swooping by and picking off targets, but weaker when landing behind a marine and insta-kill him.
<!--quoteo(post=1875820:date=Sep 20 2011, 01:09 PM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Sep 20 2011, 01:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1875820"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It should be an attack to finish off a marine if you got lots of adrenaline left, not an attack you should be able to keep using constantly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You won't have "lots of adrenaline left" if you're playing right, and weren't you for an adrenaline cost increase? Then we would rarely see it used at all.