After 4:12 - i tried to simulate atmospherics and footsteps of the opposite team at first person position from the thirdperson distance in the video. (sounds complicated - i just added first person sounds of a skulk for the marine, and of a marine for the skulk) <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HaNEJU89XQU#t=252s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...EJU89XQU#t=252s</a> (try to concentrate and hear marine footsteps with skulk fp sounds, and skulk footsteps with marine firstperson sounds later)
0:00 - 4:12 video without ambient and first person footsteps 4:12 - 8-26 same video with added ambient sound and fp footsteps So you can always go back and compare.
I should have added firstperson footsteps to the first half, but lets imagine the other player is sneaking :P
Range is fine in theory. Ambient sounds too loud, footsteps too silent. => you cant hear them anymore at range >5.
The volume drop at range has to be reduced... since you cant really make them much louder, you own footsteps can also overshadow whats going on around you... dunno.
Better idea: <b>Would be best that the footsteps you hear of yourself is another file, so the volume is not depended on how loud others hear you. </b> - Guess its currently the same file, and changing its volume would screw up lots of other volumes that are balanced around this. Ofc the footsteps sound that others hear would have to be muted for yourself.
<!--quoteo(post=1887532:date=Nov 29 2011, 09:47 PM:name=rammaj)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rammaj @ Nov 29 2011, 09:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1887532"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->have I missed the cast? can you post here before u start I will keep checking so I dont miss it.
thanks<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no u didnt miss it, i didnt end up casting yesterday, ill post here next time im going to cast.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1890251:date=Dec 14 2011, 02:41 PM:name=culprit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (culprit @ Dec 14 2011, 02:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890251"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So you are using a Mod of the Radiance mod tool that allows you to mix sounds while you navigate around the map?
That is awesome!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115410&view=findpost&p=1890006" target="_blank">Radiance Build 2</a>
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Simon, I really like the work you've done on the sounds for NS2. I do have a little concern though. It sounds to me that the skulk jump has the same base sound as the grenade launcher. I have noticed a couple of other sounds, where distinct alien sounds are heard within reloading, or other sounds on the marine team.
This causes a lot of confusion to someone like me who plays the game mainly through ear. When a group of skulks are jumping together, it's easy to hear a couple of grenades being launched at you, even when there isn't, if you know what I mean?
I understand a philosophy of mixing sounds, so that everything fits in nicely together, but specific weapon or race noises need to be kept to their own team. The amount of alien tell-tale noises I can hear in a standard marine spawn and in ambient noises around the maps, really messes up my perception of whether there are aliens around or not, and I don't think that was your intention. I understand not everyone plays so much by ear, but it just so happens my ears are better than my eyes for FPS games.
I know this is probably a bit late in the development cycle, but I've only been playing the game seriously since christmas, and it's taken a while before it got to the point I felt I needed to mention it. I find the current sounds impair my judgement as a marine, and alien at times. I just thought I'd mention it as I am not sure if it has been given any consideration or not.
yeh this is a common complaint ppl have, not being able to hear where the enemy is, not being able to differentiate which sounds are played etc.
ill have to work something out to fix that, im not really sure what can be done tho, i play by ear alot and dont have any trouble with it, but ive had the luxury of hearing all of the sounds in isolation and knowing them inside out. anyway ill look into what can be done.
I agree with the point rider is making that some marine sounds feels alien like, take for example the sound when u power up a room by building the power node the sound that it makes atleast in the end sounds like a skulk bite and I used to freak out but now that I am more used to it I allways wonder why it sounds like that ever time I hear it and its kinda annoying and pulls me out from the experince.
I think the problem with sound is caused by the real time filters being used, i noticed when creating a large room in a map with nothing inside the reverb was ridiculous and nothing sounded natural, i like to hear things as they are, any effects used should be subtle but i think the sound engine needs to be seriously looked at and fixed or scrapped and redone.
<!--quoteo(post=1894376:date=Jan 14 2012, 11:45 AM:name=simon kamakazi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (simon kamakazi @ Jan 14 2012, 11:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1894376"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ill have to work something out to fix that, im not really sure what can be done tho, i play by ear alot and dont have any trouble with it, but ive had the luxury of hearing all of the sounds in isolation and knowing them inside out. anyway ill look into what can be done.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> well for me it starting being almost unplayable (soundwise) in patch 188/189, so my preference would be to undo the changes since then :p as far as I can tell it's not so much that the sounds are difficult to differentiate, but that the balance between the sounds is out of whack, the ambient for one is way too loud imho, and when ur biting on a structure is almost impossible to even hear voicecomm (external, which is already set at twice the volume of the game), let alone footsteps
<!--quoteo(post=1894413:date=Jan 14 2012, 05:23 PM:name=Biglines)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Biglines @ Jan 14 2012, 05:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1894413"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->well for me it starting being almost unplayable (soundwise) in patch 188/189, so my preference would be to undo the changes since then :p as far as I can tell it's not so much that the sounds are difficult to differentiate, but that the balance between the sounds is out of whack, the ambient for one is way too loud imho, and when ur biting on a structure is almost impossible to even hear voicecomm (external, which is already set at twice the volume of the game), let alone footsteps<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
have u played 191? ambient sounds got turned way down. the problem with not hearing voice com when ur biting cant be solved right now unfortunately. it would require some sound tech we dont have yet (ducking) which would allow us to turn down less important sounds during voice com or "hive is under attack" voice overs etc. .
but wanting to hear footsteps while ur bitting unrealistic. alien attacks need to be as loud as marine guns, otherwise all u would hear in a fight is guns.. so to hear footsteps above ur bitting id need to turn the footsteps up louder than the guns.. would u really want footsteps louder than guns? thats part of the game, when u taking down a structure u are vulnerable.
@rammaj
marines sound a bit alien and aliens sound a bit marine, this is by design, in NS2 fiction both sides have learned from each other and evolved to be more like the other side. once u get familiar with the ns2 sounds u wont have a problem telling them apart tho.
Would the problem instead have to do with how far footstep sounds fall off though? It might not be that their not loud enough, but that the falloff is too short, exponential, or blocked too mcuh by geometry? I dont think footsteps need to be as loud as guns or biting to be heard. If the footsteps sound pattern is distinctly different from the biting sound and is at a reasonably audible volume given a certain distance, then it should be easy to pick it out right?
I actually liked being able to hear the ambient sound in earlier patches and didnt find them masking stuff but oh well.
Did you change the rifle sound? coz it seems way sexier now Simon. Although the victory music is a bit out of place... :p Perhaps in the sense that its too colourful and hollywoodish.
<!--quoteo(post=1894451:date=Jan 14 2012, 08:00 PM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Jan 14 2012, 08:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1894451"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Would the problem instead have to do with how far footstep sounds fall off though? It might not be that their not loud enough, but that the falloff is too short, exponential, or blocked too mcuh by geometry? I dont think footsteps need to be as loud as guns or biting to be heard. If the footsteps sound pattern is distinctly different from the biting sound and is at a reasonably audible volume given a certain distance, then it should be easy to pick it out right?
I actually liked being able to hear the ambient sound in earlier patches and didnt find them masking stuff but oh well.
Did you change the rifle sound? coz it seems way sexier now Simon. Although the victory music is a bit out of place... :p Perhaps in the sense that its too colourful and hollywoodish.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hey elodea,
yeh u may be on to something. ive extended the falloff on the footsteps a few patches ago, maby not far enough. but what ill try in the next patch is having the footsteps 'ignore the geometry', so that they wont get obstructed by it. the geometry obstruction s system we have seems great on paper, but in practice things like stairs, and railings or changes in elevation seem to obstruct the sound. its a very useful system to have as it stops sounds spilling over through thick walls etc but we still need to work out the kinks with it.
yeh every one has a different preference for ambient volume levels, i like them louder too, but eventually we want to have a volume slider for them in the options.
no so much changed the rifle sound im just playing it back faster now, so it sounds like it has a higher ROF and seems a little more leaner sounding glad u like it.
Comments
Footstep range is not the problem - ill make a youtube video...
After 4:12 - i tried to simulate atmospherics and footsteps of the opposite team at first person position from the thirdperson distance in the video.
(sounds complicated - i just added first person sounds of a skulk for the marine, and of a marine for the skulk)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HaNEJU89XQU#t=252s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...EJU89XQU#t=252s</a>
(try to concentrate and hear marine footsteps with skulk fp sounds, and skulk footsteps with marine firstperson sounds later)
0:00 - 4:12 video without ambient and first person footsteps
4:12 - 8-26 same video with added ambient sound and fp footsteps
So you can always go back and compare.
I should have added firstperson footsteps to the first half, but lets imagine the other player is sneaking :P
Range is fine in theory.
Ambient sounds too loud, footsteps too silent. => you cant hear them anymore at range >5.
The volume drop at range has to be reduced... since you cant really make them much louder, you own footsteps can also overshadow whats going on around you... dunno.
Better idea:
<b>Would be best that the footsteps you hear of yourself is another file, so the volume is not depended on how loud others hear you. </b>
- Guess its currently the same file, and changing its volume would screw up lots of other volumes that are balanced around this.
Ofc the footsteps sound that others hear would have to be muted for yourself.
thanks
thanks<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no u didnt miss it, i didnt end up casting yesterday, ill post here next time im going to cast.
That is awesome!
That is awesome!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115410&view=findpost&p=1890006" target="_blank">Radiance Build 2</a>
<a href="http://www.justin.tv/simon_kamakazi" target="_blank">http://www.justin.tv/simon_kamakazi</a>
<a href="http://www.justin.tv/simon_kamakazi" target="_blank">http://www.justin.tv/simon_kamakazi</a>
sorry technical difficulties be up soon
This causes a lot of confusion to someone like me who plays the game mainly through ear. When a group of skulks are jumping together, it's easy to hear a couple of grenades being launched at you, even when there isn't, if you know what I mean?
I understand a philosophy of mixing sounds, so that everything fits in nicely together, but specific weapon or race noises need to be kept to their own team. The amount of alien tell-tale noises I can hear in a standard marine spawn and in ambient noises around the maps, really messes up my perception of whether there are aliens around or not, and I don't think that was your intention. I understand not everyone plays so much by ear, but it just so happens my ears are better than my eyes for FPS games.
I know this is probably a bit late in the development cycle, but I've only been playing the game seriously since christmas, and it's taken a while before it got to the point I felt I needed to mention it. I find the current sounds impair my judgement as a marine, and alien at times. I just thought I'd mention it as I am not sure if it has been given any consideration or not.
yeh this is a common complaint ppl have, not being able to hear where the enemy is, not being able to differentiate which sounds are played etc.
ill have to work something out to fix that, im not really sure what can be done tho, i play by ear alot and dont have any trouble with it, but ive had the luxury of hearing all of the sounds in isolation and knowing them inside out. anyway ill look into what can be done.
casting again now
well for me it starting being almost unplayable (soundwise) in patch 188/189, so my preference would be to undo the changes since then :p as far as I can tell it's not so much that the sounds are difficult to differentiate, but that the balance between the sounds is out of whack, the ambient for one is way too loud imho, and when ur biting on a structure is almost impossible to even hear voicecomm (external, which is already set at twice the volume of the game), let alone footsteps
have u played 191? ambient sounds got turned way down. the problem with not hearing voice com when ur biting cant be solved right now unfortunately. it would require some sound tech we dont have yet (ducking) which would allow us to turn down less important sounds during voice com or "hive is under attack" voice overs etc. .
but wanting to hear footsteps while ur bitting unrealistic. alien attacks need to be as loud as marine guns, otherwise all u would hear in a fight is guns.. so to hear footsteps above ur bitting id need to turn the footsteps up louder than the guns.. would u really want footsteps louder than guns? thats part of the game, when u taking down a structure u are vulnerable.
@rammaj
marines sound a bit alien and aliens sound a bit marine, this is by design, in NS2 fiction both sides have learned from each other and evolved to be more like the other side.
once u get familiar with the ns2 sounds u wont have a problem telling them apart tho.
I actually liked being able to hear the ambient sound in earlier patches and didnt find them masking stuff but oh well.
Did you change the rifle sound? coz it seems way sexier now Simon. Although the victory music is a bit out of place... :p Perhaps in the sense that its too colourful and hollywoodish.
I actually liked being able to hear the ambient sound in earlier patches and didnt find them masking stuff but oh well.
Did you change the rifle sound? coz it seems way sexier now Simon. Although the victory music is a bit out of place... :p Perhaps in the sense that its too colourful and hollywoodish.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hey elodea,
yeh u may be on to something. ive extended the falloff on the footsteps a few patches ago, maby not far enough. but what ill try in the next patch is having the footsteps 'ignore the geometry', so that they wont get obstructed by it. the geometry obstruction s system we have seems great on paper, but in practice things like stairs, and railings or changes in elevation seem to obstruct the sound. its a very useful system to have as it stops sounds spilling over through thick walls etc but we still need to work out the kinks with it.
yeh every one has a different preference for ambient volume levels, i like them louder too, but eventually we want to have a volume slider for them in the options.
no so much changed the rifle sound im just playing it back faster now, so it sounds like it has a higher ROF and seems a little more leaner sounding glad u like it.
<a href="http://www.justin.tv/simon_kamakazi" target="_blank">http://www.justin.tv/simon_kamakazi</a>