AAAAAH, why did my graphics card have to fail on me, I would be a) playing ns2 in the tournament, and b) recording games for multi perspective if it hadn't.
Same here. I'm in perfect position to record games on East US/European Servers, but I can't afford to purchase the game atm. So I have to sit this one out (sadface)
I think you should push for a commander view/top down camera view for your tournament. Otherwise you'll find you can't cover all of the structures/fights etc. so easily.
ArgathorJoin Date: 2011-07-18Member: 110942Members, Squad Five Blue
Hi NS2HD,
I just had a quick glance at the rules and it still seems to be the case of 2 wins in a row for the victor?
I know this is a really tough situation, but most people realise the balance is completely and utterly ruined at the moment in competitive play. You need to play a near perfect game to win as marines (or simply play a terrible alien team). Unless the next patch (and well thought out changes) come before the tournament gets going, the competiton side of the tournament will be a farce and/or matches will simply never end.
Duplex and Pub.eu have played a LOT of games in the last few weeks and it is rare that one of us wins two games in a row. I don't think anyone would be willing to play/watch or cast if we had to go until someone won 2 games in a row.
I just had a quick glance at the rules and it still seems to be the case of 2 wins in a row for the victor?
I know this is a really tough situation, but most people realise the balance is completely and utterly ruined at the moment in competitive play. You need to play a near perfect game to win as marines (or simply play a terrible alien team). Unless the next patch (and well thought out changes) come before the tournament gets going, the competiton side of the tournament will be a farce and/or matches will simply never end.
Duplex and Pub.eu have played a LOT of games in the last few weeks and it is rare that one of us wins two games in a row. I don't think anyone would be willing to play/watch or cast if we had to go until someone won 2 games in a row.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have already built toilet on my gaming post and stocked up food for 2 weeks as presumably all the other players in our team. I also bought an UPS and a secondary internet connection to prevent power or internet loss to drop me from the game. We're all geared up and you can't change the rules anymore or all the preparing would be in vain!
Seriously speaking. I hope the balance will be fixed before the tournament but i doubt it. I also wish a balancemod could be used, but sadly that is against the tournament's principles. I'm also eager to hear how this situation will be solved in the tournament.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
I've already suggested it once, but I'll suggest it again: A third or fifth round tie breaker with a coin flip decision for who plays which side is the least awful solution.
ArgathorJoin Date: 2011-07-18Member: 110942Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1883246:date=Nov 2 2011, 04:17 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Nov 2 2011, 04:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883246"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've already suggested it once, but I'll suggest it again: A third or fifth round tie breaker with a coin flip decision for who plays which side is the least awful solution.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's simple to implement and fair but like you already know, makes a farce of the competition aspect. As most results would then be entirely down to a coin toss. Which then makes it the CoinTossHD Tournament, with the actual NS2 gameplay largely irrelevant other than for entertainment value.
It's a very difficult issue and I for one wouldn't like to be NS2HD right now with the task of working out what to do! ;-)
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Yeah, but like I said, it's the "least awful" solution.
The alternatives are: A. Adding some sort of external rule (this is always ridiculous and turns into people doing their best to exploit the external rule instead of actually trying to win) B. Pure coin flip
At least with my proposal you have a chance. The alien bias is noticeable, but let's not exaggerate, it's perfectly possible to win marine rounds.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Balancemod is a veritable Pandora's box of possible issues. Great initiative for testing possible improvements for the game, not so much for an actual tournament. What "etc"?
ArgathorJoin Date: 2011-07-18Member: 110942Members, Squad Five Blue
The 'etc' was alluding to the pandora's box of issues in using balance mod. Which changes exactly would be used. I don't see a huge problem if only 1 or 2 changes are made. Increasing alien respawn time and a fixed frenzy gain (or heal-over-time). If all the team captains agreed? Then again, it would involve all the server admins setting it up right, which probably isnt fair on them (and there are some issues with balance mod).
No way is perfect, I would just rather see a way that lets people play the game and have a fair chance of beating the other team, whether alien or marine.
ZeikkoJoin Date: 2007-12-16Member: 63179Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester
Bad news: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/naturalselection2hd#p/u/1/RMeCINGHLKA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/naturalselection2hd#p/u/1/RMeCINGHLKA</a> :S Can't say that it is a bad decision though.
<!--quoteo(post=1883420:date=Nov 3 2011, 01:34 PM:name=Zeikko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zeikko @ Nov 3 2011, 01:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883420"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bad news: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/naturalselection2hd#p/u/1/RMeCINGHLKA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/naturalselection2hd#p/u/1/RMeCINGHLKA</a> :S Can't say that it is a bad decision though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So bad:/ well.. at least we'll have time to practice moar....
OK Moar time to turn pub.eu into pro.eu. However we need a new date ! (even a rough estimation) At least to give us hope, in this dark era of NS2, that in the future this awesome tournament will take place.
Oh by ze way, I think some kind of punishment should be enforced upon NS2HD. 'bout forcing him to speak in an irish accent all the way up to december 4th?
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
That is ridiculous. Fair enough the game isn't representative and blah blah blah. That doesn't mean you should cancel the tournament. We all knew coming into this that we'd be playing a very unfinished game. Cancel the donations if you must, cancel even the casts if you must -- but the tournament should go on. It doesn't matter that you don't think it paints a pretty picture of the game, this is basically a middle finger to all the teams and players who have been waiting a long time for this to start now. I don't understand how the rest of you are being so sedate about this.
<!--quoteo(post=1883436:date=Nov 3 2011, 03:37 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Nov 3 2011, 03:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883436"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That is ridiculous. Fair enough the game isn't representative and blah blah blah. That doesn't mean you should cancel the tournament. We all knew coming into this that we'd be playing a very unfinished game. Cancel the donations if you must, cancel even the casts if you must -- but the tournament should go on. It doesn't matter that you don't think it paints a pretty picture of the game, this is basically a middle finger to all the teams and players who have been waiting a long time for this to start now. I don't understand how the rest of you are being so sedate about this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think I gotta agree with you. Cancelling just one day ahead of the tournament just isn't fair for the players. There shouldn't be a cash prize (it was a bad idea to begin with, in a game as unbalanced as NS2) but the tournament should still be played. And why couldn't it be cast? There are over three hundred NS2HD videos of the unfinished game, why would it matter if there are a few tournament matches there, too. Just return the donations, replace the two wins in a row rule (even if it means adding a random element into the game or a new rule like deciding the winner by how long it took to win a game) and keep the tournament.
Well I've never really expected this to materialize to be quite honest. I've kept my yapper shut so not to be a complete downer, but many of the signed teams I've never really seen ever (barring the occasional loner bearing the tag). And do you really want to push this tournament forward with the very questionable performance of the current NS2-build, the game-bugs and the massive potential for cheating? Not to mention a potentially huge defaulting-percentage. I think NS2HD may have been banking on the game being a lot more optimized, which unfortunatly it isn't yet (in the current build anyway).
But sure try to complete as many matches as possible, it'd make for some decent casting-material I'd reckon, but it really can't qualify as a half-decent tournament in it's current form.
ZeikkoJoin Date: 2007-12-16Member: 63179Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester
<!--quoteo(post=1883439:date=Nov 3 2011, 04:47 PM:name=ale')--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ale' @ Nov 3 2011, 04:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883439"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think I gotta agree with you. Cancelling just one day ahead of the tournament just isn't fair for the players. There shouldn't be a cash prize (it was a bad idea to begin with, in a game as unbalanced as NS2) but the tournament should still be played. And why couldn't it be cast? There are over three hundred NS2HD videos of the unfinished game, why would it matter if there are a few tournament matches there, too. Just return the donations, replace the two wins in a row rule (even if it means adding a random element into the game or a new rule like deciding the winner by how long it took to win a game) and keep the tournament.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with this. Return the prize money, maybe even cancel the casts. Or only cast some of the games. But let's have the tournament. Heck. Since all the scheduling is done and everybody have reserved time to play in the tournament etc we could have this tournament even without NS2HD. Can't we? That would require someone to step up and organize all this fast before people make other commitments though. Is NS2HD up for still doing the tournament without the prize money and maybe without casting all of the games? If not, is there somebody willing to organize the tournament?
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1883440:date=Nov 3 2011, 02:52 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Nov 3 2011, 02:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883440"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well I've never really expected this to materialize to be quite honest. I've kept my yapper shut so not to be a complete downer, but many of the signed teams I've never really seen ever (barring the occasional loner bearing the tag). And do you really want to push this tournament forward with the very questionable performance of the current NS2-build, the game-bugs and the massive potential for cheating? Not to mention a potentially huge defaulting-percentage. I think NS2HD may have been banking on the game being a lot more optimized, which unfortunatly it isn't yet (in the current build anyway).
But sure try to complete as many matches as possible, it'd make for some decent casting-material I'd reckon, but it really can't qualify as a half-decent tournament in it's current form.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It is what you make of it. If you judge an early beta tournament by the same standards as one in a finished game -- obviously it's not going to be good. But so what? Playing organized matches is fun, playing them in a tournament is even more fun. That fact doesn't change with the state of the game. Yes there are imbalances, yes there are performance issues, yes some teams won't show up for their matches, but none of that actually prevents the teams who want to play from having a fun tournament. The cheater "scare" is by far the dumbest argument -- frankly the game is too small for anyone to bother cheating at the moment. You're probably running a greater risk of playing against cheaters in finished games even with anti-cheat protection, and even in said games it's really difficult to detect smart cheaters.
I agree with Zeikko's suggestion. If NS2HD doesn't have the balls to finish what he started, I hope somebody else does.
<!--quoteo(post=1883436:date=Nov 3 2011, 08:37 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Nov 3 2011, 08:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883436"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't understand how the rest of you are being so sedate about this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it's cause we're all a pretty patient bunch of people. It's not like the tourny is never goign to happen, but postponed for a month or two.
188/189 is going to contain a lot of things we would want to show off to a wider audience. Might as well wait for that. If people want to play private clan matches they still can. No one is stopping them.
Well, when you're looking at 50% or more of the matches being defaulted, and I think that's a reasonably fair assessment, it becomes pretty hard to maintain a tournament-structure, but rather it'll be a collection of PCWs from which somehow you're supposed to distil a 'winner' at the end (not even mentioning the prevalence of cointoss-wins).
But lets see what NS2HD has to say about it (he promised a sizable post in the video).
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1883447:date=Nov 3 2011, 03:17 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Nov 3 2011, 03:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883447"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, when you're looking at 50% or more of the matches being defaulted, and I think that's a reasonably fair assessment, it becomes pretty hard to maintain a tournament-structure, but rather it'll be a collection of PCWs from which somehow you're supposed to distil a 'winner' at the end (not even mentioning the prevalence of cointoss-wins).
But lets see what NS2HD has to say about it (he promised a sizable post in the video).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> A lot of NS1 tournaments I played in had comparable drop off rates, they were still fun tournaments to play and the teams who showed up for their matches took it seriously enough that it wasn't a "collection of PCWs (...)". I guess for you, since you weren't participating anyway (?), it's a lot easier to just dismiss it and go about your way. Not so easy for those of us who have been looking forward to playing in the tournament ever since it was announced in august.
50% isn't even correct though. You might see that during the first round of matches, but there are enough active teams that you'll see few forfeits in the quarter finals and probably none in the semi finals.
<!--quoteo(post=1883446:date=Nov 3 2011, 03:16 PM:name=Obraxis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Obraxis @ Nov 3 2011, 03:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883446"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think it's cause we're all a pretty patient bunch of people. It's not like the tourny is never goign to happen, but postponed for a month or two.
188/189 is going to contain a lot of things we would want to show off to a wider audience. Might as well wait for that. If people want to play private clan matches they still can. No one is stopping them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's no reason to cancel this tournament. Just make another one when the things you want to show off are ready. Last time I checked this wasn't a UWE tournament so I don't know what you're talking about with "private clan matches".
Comments
Can't wait
I just had a quick glance at the rules and it still seems to be the case of 2 wins in a row for the victor?
I know this is a really tough situation, but most people realise the balance is completely and utterly ruined at the moment in competitive play. You need to play a near perfect game to win as marines (or simply play a terrible alien team). Unless the next patch (and well thought out changes) come before the tournament gets going, the competiton side of the tournament will be a farce and/or matches will simply never end.
Duplex and Pub.eu have played a LOT of games in the last few weeks and it is rare that one of us wins two games in a row. I don't think anyone would be willing to play/watch or cast if we had to go until someone won 2 games in a row.
I just had a quick glance at the rules and it still seems to be the case of 2 wins in a row for the victor?
I know this is a really tough situation, but most people realise the balance is completely and utterly ruined at the moment in competitive play. You need to play a near perfect game to win as marines (or simply play a terrible alien team). Unless the next patch (and well thought out changes) come before the tournament gets going, the competiton side of the tournament will be a farce and/or matches will simply never end.
Duplex and Pub.eu have played a LOT of games in the last few weeks and it is rare that one of us wins two games in a row. I don't think anyone would be willing to play/watch or cast if we had to go until someone won 2 games in a row.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have already built toilet on my gaming post and stocked up food for 2 weeks as presumably all the other players in our team. I also bought an UPS and a secondary internet connection to prevent power or internet loss to drop me from the game. We're all geared up and you can't change the rules anymore or all the preparing would be in vain!
Seriously speaking. I hope the balance will be fixed before the tournament but i doubt it. I also wish a balancemod could be used, but sadly that is against the tournament's principles. I'm also eager to hear how this situation will be solved in the tournament.
It's simple to implement and fair but like you already know, makes a farce of the competition aspect. As most results would then be entirely down to a coin toss. Which then makes it the CoinTossHD Tournament, with the actual NS2 gameplay largely irrelevant other than for entertainment value.
It's a very difficult issue and I for one wouldn't like to be NS2HD right now with the task of working out what to do! ;-)
The alternatives are:
A. Adding some sort of external rule (this is always ridiculous and turns into people doing their best to exploit the external rule instead of actually trying to win)
B. Pure coin flip
At least with my proposal you have a chance. The alien bias is noticeable, but let's not exaggerate, it's perfectly possible to win marine rounds.
No way is perfect, I would just rather see a way that lets people play the game and have a fair chance of beating the other team, whether alien or marine.
:S
Can't say that it is a bad decision though.
:S
Can't say that it is a bad decision though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So bad:/ well.. at least we'll have time to practice moar....
OK Moar time to turn pub.eu into pro.eu.
However we need a new date ! (even a rough estimation) At least to give us hope, in this dark era of NS2, that in the future this awesome tournament will take place.
/me sad panda
I think I gotta agree with you. Cancelling just one day ahead of the tournament just isn't fair for the players. There shouldn't be a cash prize (it was a bad idea to begin with, in a game as unbalanced as NS2) but the tournament should still be played. And why couldn't it be cast? There are over three hundred NS2HD videos of the unfinished game, why would it matter if there are a few tournament matches there, too. Just return the donations, replace the two wins in a row rule (even if it means adding a random element into the game or a new rule like deciding the winner by how long it took to win a game) and keep the tournament.
But sure try to complete as many matches as possible, it'd make for some decent casting-material I'd reckon, but it really can't qualify as a half-decent tournament in it's current form.
I agree with this. Return the prize money, maybe even cancel the casts. Or only cast some of the games. But let's have the tournament. Heck. Since all the scheduling is done and everybody have reserved time to play in the tournament etc we could have this tournament even without NS2HD. Can't we? That would require someone to step up and organize all this fast before people make other commitments though.
Is NS2HD up for still doing the tournament without the prize money and maybe without casting all of the games? If not, is there somebody willing to organize the tournament?
But sure try to complete as many matches as possible, it'd make for some decent casting-material I'd reckon, but it really can't qualify as a half-decent tournament in it's current form.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is what you make of it. If you judge an early beta tournament by the same standards as one in a finished game -- obviously it's not going to be good. But so what? Playing organized matches is fun, playing them in a tournament is even more fun. That fact doesn't change with the state of the game. Yes there are imbalances, yes there are performance issues, yes some teams won't show up for their matches, but none of that actually prevents the teams who want to play from having a fun tournament. The cheater "scare" is by far the dumbest argument -- frankly the game is too small for anyone to bother cheating at the moment. You're probably running a greater risk of playing against cheaters in finished games even with anti-cheat protection, and even in said games it's really difficult to detect smart cheaters.
I agree with Zeikko's suggestion. If NS2HD doesn't have the balls to finish what he started, I hope somebody else does.
I think it's cause we're all a pretty patient bunch of people. It's not like the tourny is never goign to happen, but postponed for a month or two.
188/189 is going to contain a lot of things we would want to show off to a wider audience. Might as well wait for that. If people want to play private clan matches they still can. No one is stopping them.
But lets see what NS2HD has to say about it (he promised a sizable post in the video).
But lets see what NS2HD has to say about it (he promised a sizable post in the video).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A lot of NS1 tournaments I played in had comparable drop off rates, they were still fun tournaments to play and the teams who showed up for their matches took it seriously enough that it wasn't a "collection of PCWs (...)". I guess for you, since you weren't participating anyway (?), it's a lot easier to just dismiss it and go about your way. Not so easy for those of us who have been looking forward to playing in the tournament ever since it was announced in august.
50% isn't even correct though. You might see that during the first round of matches, but there are enough active teams that you'll see few forfeits in the quarter finals and probably none in the semi finals.
<!--quoteo(post=1883446:date=Nov 3 2011, 03:16 PM:name=Obraxis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Obraxis @ Nov 3 2011, 03:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883446"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think it's cause we're all a pretty patient bunch of people. It's not like the tourny is never goign to happen, but postponed for a month or two.
188/189 is going to contain a lot of things we would want to show off to a wider audience. Might as well wait for that. If people want to play private clan matches they still can. No one is stopping them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's no reason to cancel this tournament. Just make another one when the things you want to show off are ready. Last time I checked this wasn't a UWE tournament so I don't know what you're talking about with "private clan matches".