ns2_turtle - V1.0 Released

Grizzy

As Arga said we are close to a new patch that might colmpletly change the balance of the game.

Fact that marines have access to more res towers right now is good since they need them alot more. Also they are very easy to be taken down.

Kouji_San

Expect a few things that have to be implemented, for maps to work properly. Loads of things have changed, the most important ones are the new Occlusion Culling system, which has to be built by the mapper. And the new power grid, which is a simple change but does change gameplay a lot :)

Evil_bOb1

Yes I am very aware of the upcoming changes and I have already accounted for them a bit. I have added some atmospheric lights for the show :p. There is going to need a powerpoint for each area which I have started to address. I hope the old occlusion culling still works, and that the new system is just another layer to make it perform better. The map already performs pretty well, apart for areas on the edges where it starts to render the whole map, and with the optimizations for 188 I am hoping it just get better and these issues get resolved.

Now the question for me is. Who is going to finish first? :p It might just happen that 188 will be released before b2. I've still got a bunch of things I want to fix, I don't know about UWE what their planned timings are :)

The recent changes I have made to MS, Gate, Loading rt, and Porthub I think were necessary to the map, and not just for balance reasons, but mostly to enhance the gaming experience. A lot of things when making a map are temporary, as in making a game, there are a lot of placeholder things, and you need these multiple implementations so each time it gets more thought out and blends with the rest. Its not impulse changes but the natural evolution taking place :p As the ideas crystallize into a coherent object.

Kouji_San

Soon/when it's done+valve time :P

Evil_bOb1

So I guess UWE wins and I have to deal with occlusion geometry :p

Since 188 I get this when trying to create the overview:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->------------------------- overview -------------------------
RenderDevice: ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5870 (8.14.10.716)
Using x resolution 256 and y resolution 256
Offset (1.6256, -26.0096, -3.2512) Extents (83.75, 32.5, 83.75)
Creating overview image ('ns2\/maps/overviews/map.tga')... done
Creating commander camera height map ('ns2\/maps/overviews/map.hmp') ... done
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->Error: 9 memory leaks in 'Heap' (16820 bytes)<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
R6025
- pure virtual function call<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: Overview.exe
Application Version: 0.0.0.0
Application Timestamp: 4ecd8eeb
Fault Module Name: Engine.dll
Fault Module Version: 0.0.0.0
Fault Module Timestamp: 4ecd79b7
Exception Code: 40000015
Exception Offset: 00212d11
OS Version: 6.1.7600.2.0.0.768.3
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Information 1: 7b81
Additional Information 2: 7b8150f1fceed041dcdd0df420aed458
Additional Information 3: 2ab7
Additional Information 4: 2ab750ac2d775465e365feab813c19e2<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The .exe stops working and I end up with a blank overview. I had hoped that it was due to the absence of occlusion culling but my first test didn't solve the issue. Any ideas?
----
I just tried creating the overview for other maps (summit/sample_188) and the same thing happens. Is the overview program broke? Can someone tell me if the overview generator works on their side?

Kouji_San

It got broken during 188 development, if you have an older version (187 or older) You're good to go, but yeah I don't have one or I'd include it with sample.

pSyk0mAn

Yes, you have to use an older build to create your overview.
Unfortunately simply copying over the older overview .exe and .pdb doesn't work or I would upload them.

swalk

Here is the 2nd round of the game between duplex and HBZ on turtle.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g22GXfxkuFQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g22GXfxkuFQ</a>
Round 3:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umXC8jeZdY8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umXC8jeZdY8</a>

Evil_bOb1

<img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/mappics/ms9.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

konata

That's looking much better, neater, cleaner. I still think there's way too many different patterned floors. Like that top part, keep the brown diamond floor and maybe use the tiling instead of the grated floor nearer the bottom of the screen, and remove the hazard stripes as an example.

Also your doorway, that texture looks really stretched the black one, visually, something else could go a heck of a lot nicer. The hallway looks pretty nice from that view too.

Nice to see the map coming leaps and bounds still. Good improvements all round.

Evil_bOb1

Thanks Konata! I will do something about those textures. I agree there is room for improvement. Finding the right texture for each surface is something that takes a lot of changing and looking. A lot of textures I use as placeholders too, like the hazard stripes for some areas or textures like refinery_trim_7 or refinery_wall_15 which will surely be replaced as a prop down the line.

--

I am planning a release very soon, when it's ready. It is still rough on the edges and the map will still need some detail work for the future, but I want to give you guys a release compatible with the great 189. There are many many changes from turtle_b1. Overall visual upgrade, many balance changes many thanks to former pub.eu now archaea , duplex and HBZ members, lighting upgrade, occlusion culling(what a %$#& :p), new passages, opened up areas, vents, and many more :D

<b>Bilge</b>, rt
<img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/mappics/b2p1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

<b>Engine</b>, tp
<img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/mappics/b2p2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

<b>Service</b>, rt
<img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/mappics/b2p3.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

<b>Bridge</b>, tp
<img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/mappics/b2p4.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

autograder

Awesome, looking forward to this :)

peregrinus

This is really stunning work!

<img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/mappics/b2p2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

fmpone

<!--quoteo(post=1888703:date=Dec 6 2011, 05:15 AM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Dec 6 2011, 05:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888703"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is really stunning work!

<img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/mappics/b2p2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That's my favorite shot of Turtle thus far. That it only has one, distinct color of lighting is no coincidence.

Evil_bOb1

Thanks guys :)

You have been fooled fmpone, there is in fact a subtle mix of colors in Engine :p But it is surely where I have accomplished the blend most effectively. I wish to achieve the same effect across the map. In short there are lights that illuminate the walls closer to whites, and then I use broader lights with a bit more color but very little intensity which I use to add a tone to the reflections on specular maps. It is pretty difficult to achieve right and takes a lot of tweaking. The goal is to make it look like it is just one color and this is where the challenge is at. The result I am looking for is homogeneous lighting with subtle reflections. You can see across the map where this blend has not yet found the sweet spot but it will get there. :D

But without Radiance it is practically impossible to achieve right without spending days checking ingame and out each subtle difference you make in the lighting. So expect lighting quality to be a bit disparate in b2 version.

Argathor

It is looking stunning (specially considering most of us will never be looking at the detail) and I know from our taster of b2 that the performance is incredible. I cannot wait to play this on public servers (gogo map rotation and automatic downloads), it is an incredible gift to the NS2 community!

Heroman117

Just curious, how exactly are you going to handle random spawn points?

Are they going to be the same old static ones pre-188 style, or are we going to have random spawns to the effect of Summit?

I must say a game where the Marines start in Engine and Aliens starting in the Bridge would be extremely interesting. As the Aliens would likely push Central Hold or Command, and while the marines don't expect it, they sneak a hive into Loading or Backup and assault the main base.

Maybe only Central Hold, Command, Bridge, and Engine should be the only potential team starting locations, but a Marine team in Engine against a Alien team in Loading would be hilarious :P

EDIT:
Aw it eems Loading and Engine tech points aren't as close anymore as they were in this screenshot:
<img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/mappics/miniup.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

konata

The team are looking at programming the game so tech points within a certain proximity don't spawn at round start I believe.

swalk

My opinion on random spawns for this map; make it static.
Summit suffers a great deal from it (balance wise), and this map works pretty well with static spawns.
If spawns were to be random on turtle, you would very often spawn very close to the other team.
Which makes the game less interesting, and the outer regions of the whole map alot less used.
The game becomes more like Team Deathmatch.
Just my two cents!

Evil_bOb1

I am going for static spawns. The map was designed as so. Marine start has 4 RTs in its power sector and the vents are like a tree from alien start. Moving the alien or marine starts on this map wouldn't make sens.

Though I agree for the fun of it, it would be interesting to play a game with random spawning, which the server admin can change currently modifying the map file, but I wouldn't put it as so in a public release file.

swalk

<!--quoteo(post=1888882:date=Dec 7 2011, 10:37 AM:name=Evil_bOb1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evil_bOb1 @ Dec 7 2011, 10:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888882"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am going for static spawns. The map was designed as so. Marine start has 4 RTs in its power sector and the vents are like a tree from alien start. Moving the alien or marine starts on this map wouldn't make sens.

Though I agree for the fun of it, it would be interesting to play a game with random spawning, which the server admin can change currently modifying the map file, but I wouldn't put it as so in a public release file.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If we get the game going tonight, I could try talking the others into playing turtle and trying random spawns for the last two rounds :)
I will hook you up on steam so you can watch the games, if they happen :P

Yuuki

I'm sure everybody wants to play on it!

Evil_bOb1

Im fixing a few bugs/issues that were apparent in the playtest, release imminent.

But... I am questioning the lockable door just above Marine spawn. Here is the current implementation. With two ideas, one where I just move the door so aliens can move around the corridor above MS but can only get in from Gate and Bridge. Or simply removing that door, allowing aliens to come from Gate, Hub and Bridge.

<img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/mappics/ns2_turtle.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

What do you guys think about that?

swalk

<!--quoteo(post=1889247:date=Dec 8 2011, 10:30 PM:name=Evil_bOb1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evil_bOb1 @ Dec 8 2011, 10:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1889247"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Im fixing a few bugs/issues that were apparent in the playtest, release imminent.

But... I am questioning the lockable door just above Marine spawn. Here is the current implementation. With two ideas, one where I just move the door so aliens can move around the corridor above MS but can only get in from Gate and Bridge. Or simply removing that door, allowing aliens to come from Gate, Hub and Bridge.

What do you guys think about that?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That door is kind of wierd I think, it is not being used much by marines.
But I think it's somewhat nessesary to restrict the flow of the aliens near MS.
I would say either keep the door, or(I like this option less) delete the path between marine start powernode and, generator?
If you keep the door, aliens would be able to destroy the door for more freedom near MS(most interesting imo).
Right now doors are very frustrating for aliens, as they can't do anything about them, but that change will change soon it seems.

Edit: Actually, after looking at the picture again, I think the moving of the door(to be towards hub) would be the best option. Good thinking.

Evil_bOb1

Yeah, it is the solution I like the most. Aliens can only get in MS from Gate or Bridge, but once they pass those points they have more freedom in MS. From the playtest it was obvious that the map has found a good balance and things are much more structured from b1, but a form of stalemate arises, something I wanted to avoid, that came from limiting the entry points aliens have into MS. It was also obvious that that door isn't at its place and this is something I want to address.

With this solution, when aliens are able to destroy locked doors, it will really give a new entrance into MS, and maybe give a situation parallel to the locked door between Loading and Engine, as aliens could 'sneakily' destroy that door and move massively into MS.

It will surely help marines in early game too as they know aliens can only come from two points, Generator is Marine territory and at the moment it can be hard for them to hold it because aliens can also come in there through Hub, so Marines post themselves in the corridor. Moving the door will still allow aliens to do that but they first have to get through Gate or Generator, so an organized team could avoid that.

Grizzy

Good idea putting the door towards hub, gotta see how destroyable doors end up working. Would make gate much more important room to secure so generator only has one entrance.

Evil_bOb1

<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=The Turtle Spacecraft)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Turtle Spacecraft)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->TSA Turtle, is a deepspace exploration spacecraft, a small ship designed for its inhabitants to be able to peacefully cruise around space, sampling minerals and charting unknown planets. Its thick structure, acting like the shell of a turtle, allows the ship to withstand the toughest environments. But the shell won't protect the crew members from an internal infestation.

A distress signal was received by the TSA from a distant sector beyond the border of colonized star systems. Turtle ships are expensive to manufacture due to their unique survival systems. The data they collect is an even more invaluable resource. It is essential that the TSA recovers Turtle_b2 from the infestation.

A TSA Arrow-Response Ship is now being dispatched and is expected to arrive shortly in Turtle_b2's sector.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Gameplay)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gameplay)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Turtle is a smaller, more maze-like map, divided into 7 main sectors, technical rooms and many access routes from sector to sector. It is very fast paced and action packed. Static spawns, 6 Tech points, 10 Resource points, 5 doors<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<a href="http://www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/maps/1/ns2_turtle/" target="_blank">Duplex Page</a>
<a href="http://www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/download.php?f=ns2_turtle_b2b.zip" target="_blank">Direct Download</a>

<b>ns2_turtle</b>, Layout
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/mappics/tb28.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/mappics/tb28t.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>

<b>Quarters</b>, Marine Spawn
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/mappics/tb21.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/mappics/tb21t.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>

<b>Bridge</b>
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/mappics/tb26.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/mappics/tb26t.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>

<b>Hub</b>
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/mappics/tb27.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/mappics/tb27t.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>

<b>Cargo</b>, Alien Spawn
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/mappics/tb22.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/mappics/tb22t.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>

<b>Engine</b>
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/mappics/tb25.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/mappics/tb25t.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>

<b>Reactor View</b>
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/mappics/tb24.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/mappics/tb24t.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>

<b>Loading</b>
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/mappics/tb23.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/mappics/tb23t.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>

Argathor

<!--quoteo(post=1889602:date=Dec 10 2011, 11:14 AM:name=Evil_bOb1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evil_bOb1 @ Dec 10 2011, 11:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1889602"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/download.php?f=ns2_turtle_b2.zip" target="_blank">ns2_turtle_b2</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Does this mean that we are now treated to the official release of turtle_b2?!?!

*cheers*

HadesDK

*downloading* :)

peregrinus

Downloading！

If you guys want a logo for the map this would fit well. It's an ancient Chinese character for turtle

<img src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/龜-bronze.svg/300px-龜-bronze.svg.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:%E9%BE%9C-bronze.svg" target="_blank">https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:%E9%BE%9C-bronze.svg</a>