MAC repair rate
swalk
Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<div class="IPBDescription">is way too fast</div>One MAC repairs faster, than any single alien can damage a structure.
With more than one MAC the repair rate is insane, and make frustrating gameplay.
This is really a big problem at the moment, but not getting alot of attention, even though it should be a quick thing to fix. Hence the reason for this topic.
My suggestion for a fix: Make MACs repair at the same rate they build buildings.
With more than one MAC the repair rate is insane, and make frustrating gameplay.
This is really a big problem at the moment, but not getting alot of attention, even though it should be a quick thing to fix. Hence the reason for this topic.
My suggestion for a fix: Make MACs repair at the same rate they build buildings.
Comments
But I agree the repairrate on buildings (not powernodes) should be lowered.
It is frustrating getting a building down to 2% and having 4 macs coming to repair it to 100% in 1 second!
Macs are only effective when the aliens don't have bilebomb.
But I agree the repairrate on buildings (not powernodes) should be lowered.
It is frustrating getting a building down to 2% and having 4 macs coming to repair it to 100% in 1 second!
Macs are only effective when the aliens don't have bilebomb.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah I agree with you for the most part.
But I think that a MAC should repair slower than a marine with a welder.
MACs repair rate on powernodes is just as insane as repairing buildings at the moment, so there I also disagree with you.
They repair it alot faster than marines do. It's the same problem as with repairing buildings.
While waiting for UWE to address the issue maybe this could be fixed to the balancemod too?
While waiting for UWE to address the issue maybe this could be fixed to the balancemod too?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong. 1 gorge can clear the situation, so the com stops using MACs. If they repair rate is to slow, coms wil just build 6 of them to compensate.
MACs are really powerfull when aliens don't have a 2. Hive. We could raise the cost of em so they won't be spamed and adjusting the healrate just a bit higher, like 10 more, than 1 skulk can deal damage. But increasing te build speed.
MACs major gameplay impact at the moment is prolonging games that marines are losing anyway. Which is not fun or productive for anyone.
Or make them have energy for repairs?
They are also pretty hard to hit as a skulk. I always felt that the MACs should be vulnerable units that the com needs to use carefully, but right now they aren't. They are also so cheap they are practically disposable.
they should be primary target for the skulk, mindlessly attacking structures is too easy and dump. instead we could add one simple rule to macs:
reduce mac movement speed to 10% during repairing and ~5 seconds longer after repair is done/cancelled. that will make them an easier target, but retains mobility. You can try to send in your mac and repair a structure that is under attack, but you will possibly sacrifice it.
in addition to that and already mentioned above: reduce the effectivity of multiple macs repairing the same target (diminishing returns) to keep mac count at a sane amount (depending on the size of marines' territory)
Also, I don't think the problem is with the MAC speed or repair rate (they don't need nerfed), but the fact that aliens don't have an end game. If the onos was in, or bile bomb damage increased vs structures, then this topic would be moot.
Nerfed to the max, I'd say worst case 2 MACs should overpower a chomping skulk. Otherwise I don't think this is necessary; we currently see alien dominance anyway.
They would still be a primary target even if the repair rate was less than the skulk damage rate. It would still significantly slow down the amount of damage the building would take.
+1
Also, I don't think the problem is with the MAC speed or repair rate (they don't need nerfed), but the fact that aliens don't have an end game. If the onos was in, or bile bomb damage increased vs structures, then this topic would be moot.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is not a direct stalemate problem, but probably adds to it.
Sentries and superfast repairing MACs are hard for aliens to get down.
Only the gorge does this well, and he is quite vulnerable.
Too many situations where you almost kill a structure, and then it has 100% 2 seconds after that. No chance for teammates to get in and finish it off, because one MAC will repair it in a matter of seconds.
MAC repair rate do need a nerf. Onos will not change this problem.
End game isn't here yet so its a problem for the future. This is something which should be addressed when all the features are in the game or when MACs really become game winners, which they really aren't right now. The onos will infact pretty much solve the case because it can tank up alot of damage, meanwhile fades take out marines and skulks/gorges take out their turrets. Or something like that.
End game isn't here yet so its a problem for the future. This is something which should be addressed when all the features are in the game or when MACs really become game winners, which they really aren't right now. The onos will infact pretty much solve the case because it can tank up alot of damage, meanwhile fades take out marines and skulks/gorges take out their turrets. Or something like that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you're misunderstanding something here, the change isn't really time consuming, it is just a number tweak afaik.
This has nothing to do with endgame, and is not a problem of the future, it is a problem of the present.
This has nothing to do with endgame, and is not a problem of the future, it is a problem of the present.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is hardly a problem actually, having no milk in the fridge in the morning for your fruitloops is more of a problem than this.
There are far bigger ''niggles'' that need to be sorted but even those are a waste of time right now.
The only time I see this problem is when marines are turtling in marine start with MACs/sentries/ARCs/etc. Its fairly trivial to kill MACs in pretty much every other situation and I frequently see MACs die when trying to out repair a skulk or lerk (because the skulk/lerk quickly attacks the MACs, then goes back to destroying the structure it was attacking).
The MAC stacking/nearly insta-repairing is largely a symptom of the fact that aliens can't break through late-game marine turtles. Nerfing MAC repair rate would make the balance favor aliens even more and likely lead to more late-game marine turtles.
they should be primary target for the skulk, mindlessly attacking structures is too easy and dump. instead we could add one simple rule to macs:
reduce mac movement speed to 10% during repairing and ~5 seconds longer after repair is done/cancelled. that will make them an easier target, but retains mobility. You can try to send in your mac and repair a structure that is under attack, but you will possibly sacrifice it.
in addition to that and already mentioned above: reduce the effectivity of multiple macs repairing the same target (diminishing returns) to keep mac count at a sane amount (depending on the size of marines' territory)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Another possible way to address this issue is to make MACs more expensive, 10 res perhaps. Leave the other mechanics alone. Now it is a very dangerous move to send a MAC to repair a structure under attack. you could easily sacrifice 10 teamres and a useful unit just to save a single extractor. This would force comms to protect their MACs and clear out threats before repairs would be safe to begin.
Naturally a higher cost also reduces the number of MACs that a team can afford.
Excluding those never ending games where you end up swimming in team res.
Even if 1000 macs are stacked 4 bilebOmb hit and all 1000 are gone. Macs are easy to kill by lerks also. Only the Skulk/Fade has problem killing a speed upgraded MAC.
It is fun to play catch me with a skulk or fade keeping em distracted, giving them a chance to hit it twice so they got motivated then retreat repair the MAC and the fun goes on.
You can keep 2-4 Aliens busy hunting MACs and that is a really cool minigame for me. I'm such a sadist.
A minion is leaving your dungeon, he is fed up with MACs kiting him :P
There are far bigger ''niggles'' that need to be sorted but even those are a waste of time right now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hardly a problem? Either it's a problem, or it is not. I see this as a problem.
One turret and two MACs can keep fades and skulks away with a bit of micro management. MACs can repair each other at a higer rate than an alien can kill them(now the same problem again). Basicly it is just a matter of the marine comm to fail his micro, or for the MACs to be litterally swarmed by aliens.
I'm not saying that this is the biggest problem of NS2 at the moment, I'm simply stating that the repair rate is too fast.
Now with this "wasting time" again? Tweaking a number or two is hardly time consuming.
<!--quoteo(post=1883100:date=Nov 1 2011, 08:32 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Nov 1 2011, 08:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883100"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The only time I see this problem is when marines are turtling in marine start with MACs/sentries/ARCs/etc. Its fairly trivial to kill MACs in pretty much every other situation and I frequently see MACs die when trying to out repair a skulk or lerk (because the skulk/lerk quickly attacks the MACs, then goes back to destroying the structure it was attacking).
The MAC stacking/nearly insta-repairing is largely a symptom of the fact that aliens can't break through late-game marine turtles. Nerfing MAC repair rate would make the balance favor aliens even more and likely lead to more late-game marine turtles.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're wrong here, it is not a because of the stalemates this problem is present.
It is the other way around. And it will definitly lead to less marine turtles.
Same thing with making Distress Beacon have an economical cost. Less marine turtle.
Also amount of commanders that can micro that well right now can be counted on the fingers of 1 hand so this really wouldn't fix anything.
As has been stated before, all the different areas of the game (including simple balance changes) are constantly worked on by the team. Since they are not going to all solely work on implementing major features this type of feedback is useful. This problem can be resolved by a simple change. The overall marine/alien balance problem is a bigger kettle of fish and this wont make any difference.
Which I'm guessing is UWE caving into the demands of people wishing to be able to play the game already instead of acting like the testers they should be. Like in any big project, you take it one step at a time.
These small number fixes use up precious time of the devs and don't accomplish anything just like you said at the end of your post.