<!--quoteo(post=1883176:date=Nov 2 2011, 02:05 AM:name=Grizzy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Grizzy @ Nov 2 2011, 02:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883176"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Which I'm guessing is UWE caving into the demands of people wishing to be able to play the game already instead of acting like the testers they should be. Like in any big project, you take it one step at a time.
These small number fixes use up precious time of the devs and don't accomplish anything just like you said at the end of your post.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think anyone is saying "prioritize fixing the mac repair rate before anything else", just because it's not a priority doesn't mean that it can't be discussed. Sure, there are many things that are more important than this and there are also lots more balance changes that will be required before the game is finished. That doesn't mean that the mac repair rate isn't too fast though, or that it shouldn't be brought up on the forums.
I think 1 MAC repairing should be about the same speed as a gorge healing a structure.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1883176:date=Nov 2 2011, 03:05 AM:name=Grizzy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Grizzy @ Nov 2 2011, 03:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883176"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Which I'm guessing is UWE caving into the demands of people wishing to be able to play the game already instead of acting like the testers they should be. Like in any big project, you take it one step at a time.
These small number fixes use up precious time of the devs and don't accomplish anything just like you said at the end of your post.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is not a demand, this is one of the problems in the game I have come up with after playing this game for over 784 hours. I'm posting for the devs so they get some feedback on the problems in the game, not because I want to demand it for the next patch. This does help with the marine stalemates, as would changing Beacon to cost teamres. Several small things like this can definitly have a small effect on the overall balance of the game. Best thing is, they don't take up a lot of time to fix, it is as simple as changing a viable. Testing and reporting back to the developers is exactly what I am doing.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1883166:date=Nov 1 2011, 05:58 PM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Nov 1 2011, 05:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883166"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're wrong here, it is not a because of the stalemates this problem is present. It is the other way around. And it will definitly lead to less marine turtles. Same thing with making Distress Beacon have an economical cost. Less marine turtle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marines will still turtle, but turtling will be less effective (though marines will likely still be able to drag games out unnecessarily long). Marines turtles are effective because 1. All marine players are in one location 2. Marines can easily pickup dropped weapons 3. They can turret spam 4. They can MAC repair everything easily 5. They can beacon You could make marine turtling ineffective by massively nerfing all of these, but then the balance would be way out of whack and aliens would stomp marine in almost all cases.
The best solution I've seen to this is the same one that helped eliminate hydra farming as a problem: give aliens a very high anti-structure attack and/or class. I think the gorge bilebomb would be perfect for this (i.e. double or triple the damage ts does against structures), but it could also be an onos or lerk attack. If the aliens had an attack that could take down sentries and/or obs in 2-3 hits, the issue would basically become moot. Its because it takes about a dozen bites/swipes/bilebombs/spikes to kill even the weakest marine structures that this is a problem.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
Tried this on a public game today, I had two MACs, two turrets. I could hold back endless waves of aliens for a very long time just with this, kiting fades and skulks around the turrets range with two MACs, they either died or had to go heal before killing anything. And by the time the aliens was around the corner to heal at the gorge everything was at full health again. We eventually lost, when the two MACs got swarmed by 4 fades. They survived the four fades for about a minute, but I forgot to watch the health of one of my turrets, and that was the end of it. Fades could then tank the one turret and kill my MACs.
If MACs autorepaired eachother they would be invincible.
I'd prefer it if only one mac could build or repair a structure at once.
Reason being, either you would have to balance the rates around multiple macs, making solitary ones useless, or you would have multiple macs be horribly OP.
I would personally say, make macs cost twice as much, be three times tougher, and cut the repair rate a bit. As it stands they repair quite fast, but are ridiculously flimsy. I'd like to be able to recover them if possible, and have a reason to fix them back up at base, and use them in fights as that's sort of the point of having robots, you can build more of them.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1883351:date=Nov 3 2011, 01:23 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Nov 3 2011, 01:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883351"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd prefer it if only one mac could build or repair a structure at once.
Reason being, either you would have to balance the rates around multiple macs, making solitary ones useless, or you would have multiple macs be horribly OP.
I would personally say, make macs cost twice as much, be three times tougher, and cut the repair rate a bit. As it stands they repair quite fast, but are ridiculously flimsy. I'd like to be able to recover them if possible, and have a reason to fix them back up at base, and use them in fights as that's sort of the point of having robots, you can build more of them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Definitly some limit to how many that can build/repair at once. Maybe 3 instead of 1? To make multiple MACs more viable. Give the feeling of "powerbuilding" with MACs, but more balanced.
Comments
These small number fixes use up precious time of the devs and don't accomplish anything just like you said at the end of your post.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think anyone is saying "prioritize fixing the mac repair rate before anything else", just because it's not a priority doesn't mean that it can't be discussed. Sure, there are many things that are more important than this and there are also lots more balance changes that will be required before the game is finished. That doesn't mean that the mac repair rate isn't too fast though, or that it shouldn't be brought up on the forums.
I think 1 MAC repairing should be about the same speed as a gorge healing a structure.
These small number fixes use up precious time of the devs and don't accomplish anything just like you said at the end of your post.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is not a demand, this is one of the problems in the game I have come up with after playing this game for over 784 hours.
I'm posting for the devs so they get some feedback on the problems in the game, not because I want to demand it for the next patch.
This does help with the marine stalemates, as would changing Beacon to cost teamres.
Several small things like this can definitly have a small effect on the overall balance of the game.
Best thing is, they don't take up a lot of time to fix, it is as simple as changing a viable.
Testing and reporting back to the developers is exactly what I am doing.
It is the other way around. And it will definitly lead to less marine turtles.
Same thing with making Distress Beacon have an economical cost. Less marine turtle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marines will still turtle, but turtling will be less effective (though marines will likely still be able to drag games out unnecessarily long). Marines turtles are effective because
1. All marine players are in one location
2. Marines can easily pickup dropped weapons
3. They can turret spam
4. They can MAC repair everything easily
5. They can beacon
You could make marine turtling ineffective by massively nerfing all of these, but then the balance would be way out of whack and aliens would stomp marine in almost all cases.
The best solution I've seen to this is the same one that helped eliminate hydra farming as a problem: give aliens a very high anti-structure attack and/or class. I think the gorge bilebomb would be perfect for this (i.e. double or triple the damage ts does against structures), but it could also be an onos or lerk attack. If the aliens had an attack that could take down sentries and/or obs in 2-3 hits, the issue would basically become moot. Its because it takes about a dozen bites/swipes/bilebombs/spikes to kill even the weakest marine structures that this is a problem.
And by the time the aliens was around the corner to heal at the gorge everything was at full health again. We eventually lost, when the two MACs got swarmed by 4 fades. They survived the four fades for about a minute, but I forgot to watch the health of one of my turrets, and that was the end of it. Fades could then tank the one turret and kill my MACs.
If MACs autorepaired eachother they would be invincible.
Reason being, either you would have to balance the rates around multiple macs, making solitary ones useless, or you would have multiple macs be horribly OP.
I would personally say, make macs cost twice as much, be three times tougher, and cut the repair rate a bit. As it stands they repair quite fast, but are ridiculously flimsy. I'd like to be able to recover them if possible, and have a reason to fix them back up at base, and use them in fights as that's sort of the point of having robots, you can build more of them.
I will also state that I think this should be later.
Lets get these two items:
1. Feature complete
2. Performance/Responsiveness
then move onto balance and polish.
Reason being, either you would have to balance the rates around multiple macs, making solitary ones useless, or you would have multiple macs be horribly OP.
I would personally say, make macs cost twice as much, be three times tougher, and cut the repair rate a bit. As it stands they repair quite fast, but are ridiculously flimsy. I'd like to be able to recover them if possible, and have a reason to fix them back up at base, and use them in fights as that's sort of the point of having robots, you can build more of them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Definitly some limit to how many that can build/repair at once. Maybe 3 instead of 1? To make multiple MACs more viable. Give the feeling of "powerbuilding" with MACs, but more balanced.