Can the Alien flashlight be amended?
Soul_Rider
Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
I really like the alien flashlight, but could we have a slight change to the behaviour.
I want to propose that there is a change in the colour when moving from unlit to lit areas. I keep finding myself walking through an alien area, into another alien area with the flashlight on, only to find the 2nd area has been repaired and is fully lit.
Can we just alter the colour slightly based on the powernode state of the location. In broken powernode areas, the flashlight takes on a slightly darker shade or something?
I know the flashlight is modified under the effect of cloaking, so I wouldn't imagine this would be too hard to implement, although what do I know :)
I want to propose that there is a change in the colour when moving from unlit to lit areas. I keep finding myself walking through an alien area, into another alien area with the flashlight on, only to find the 2nd area has been repaired and is fully lit.
Can we just alter the colour slightly based on the powernode state of the location. In broken powernode areas, the flashlight takes on a slightly darker shade or something?
I know the flashlight is modified under the effect of cloaking, so I wouldn't imagine this would be too hard to implement, although what do I know :)
Comments
with or without mod, i still use alien vision 99-100% (i might check if a room is black or not when not playing with the mod, thats it)
Give it disadvantages?
Lol, I'm all for it being slightly more transparent, so you can see textures, and being made mandatory. So aliens have to use it all the time. Alien by name, Alien by nature :)
I don't think alien vision should have any major disadvantage. Since darkness is a game feature, as well as a minor balancing factor, aliens need to be able to see in the dark. Otherwise aliens will be at a disadvantage, as they are mostly melee attackers.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=114172&st=0" target="_blank"><img src="http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/5880/ns2darkvision02.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Quick n Dirty Alien Vision Mod</a>
This was using 10% opacity, iirc.
And here was the original discussion thread:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=113819&view=findpost&p=1859407" target="_blank">Alien Sight</a>
If you go really fast across the map (getting to frontline), you have normal (marine vision). When you are traveling cautious at normal speed you get what you see in twiliteblue's vision mod, and when you camp you get full alien vision. (skulking, preparing for ambush)
This shouldnt change the instant your speed changes, but based on the average speed you have the last 20 seconds or something.
They would want to look through their gas, to spike marines, but they won't be able to tell if theyre covered by the gascloud anymore.
If you have it on all the time and are hiding in a shadowy area, the marines can <b>see your eyes glowing and target you</b>. Whenever I play skulk, I just add something to marine atmospheric vibe by turning it on while I attack. They then see me coming from the shadows and my eyes start glowing (I heard/saw people saying, OMG! glowing eyes, so cool), that's when I know I played my part :P
What do you mean? You change two numbers in the code. Currently those numbers say "1". You can change those numbers to say "0.1". It <b>is</b> UWE's version. Did you look at <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=114172&st=0" target="_blank">the thread</a>?
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Just... why?
Ehm, I just listed one that is already in. Not suggesting to add one...
I know it's UWEs code, I have made the changes here aswell =)
However I dont think they planned for transparancy when they made it (they have also said that it's just a first implementation).
So if they take this feedback to heart, basicly "We want to see the default textures and pretty much just get edges enhanced", maybe they can come up with a new even more awesome looking variant.
for "drawbacks", how about static object gets less enhanced, kinda like a motion detection thingy. won't screw up combat and won't clutter the enviroment.
wut?
I have been playing the game for about 6 months and had no idea that alien vision made your eyes glow. Perhaps that needs to be communicated better the the player using Alien Vision. I can imagine quite a few people like myself wondering/rageing about hacks because we keep getting shot when hiding in the shadows.
I have noticed that sometime other Alien eyes glow or not. I just never made the connection to Alien Vision.
Me neither, I just thought it was to do with the lighting :P
But UWE said it some time ago. So I am sure there will be atleast one, even if AV would use energy.
AV highlight anything that is marine even if there is no power, umbra and spores all the way, you just see the red glowing mine/marine. Plus it raises awareness (red/green contrast)and it is easier to track rines in combat, makes cloak more usefull and less distracting etc...
So atleast 4 pros against a smal contra that is only nteressting as a skulk.
Aliens cannot attack unless they're standing right next to marines, while marines can attack aliens at any distance.
Is that not disadvantage enough?
Just because UWE might have (I don't know if they ever did; in fact, I recall Charlie mentioning he wanted it to turn on automatically when you enter dark areas) in the past said AV needs a disadvantage doesn't mean they've completely made up their mind about it. Remember what happened to the Taser?
Now, let's discuss why always-on-AV is a good idea.
1- It highlights geometries. Aliens need to have good environmental awareness simply to be effective as highly-mobile units - and AV helps tremendously with that, it sets a baseline for competence. It's a tool that every alien should have and use.
2- It highlights players. Aliens need to have good situational awareness to be effective as melee units - and AV helps tremendously with that, it sets a baseline for competence. It's a tool that every alien should have and use.
3- A lot of people play with AV always (or 95% of the time) on anyway.
Now, let's discuss why twiliteblue's mod (or something like it) is ideal.
4- A corollary to 3 above, if a lot of people play with it always on anyway, you get an Arkham Asylum situation, where all the effort that went into textures/etc. is ignored for the sake of effective play. With transparency, you get the best of both worlds.
5- It allows players to much more easily differentiate between dark and light areas. Players are no longer dark/light-blind.
6- It looks different to marine vision, further accentuating the difference between the two sides, without being arbitrarily (i.e. serves no other purpose) different.
7- It doesn't look like Tron.
8- It looks cool.
What about why giving AV any sort of disadvantage is a bad idea?
9- As discussed in 1 and 2, it is an effective, and necessary, tool for effective alien play. Giving it a penalty is like giving players a penalty for playing aliens. We've been given a weapon to use against an enemy, so why shouldn't we use it?
10- It divides the playerbase as to what constitutes "the right way to play the game".
And if we do go with transparency, then there would be no reason not to always use AV, so even more players would just keep it on all the time anyway. Which brings us back to 3, in a way:
11- There is no reason not to always use AV, so we should just have AV always-on.
12- By establishing a standard (always-on), you keep the playerbase undivided as to what constitutes "the right way to play the game".
The main point in all this, is that AV <b>isn't</b> about giving alien players an <i>advantage</i>, but about <b>mitigating</b> their <u>inherent</u> <i>disadvantages</i> and <b>enabling</b> them to play the way they are <i>designed</i> to.
Twiliteblue's vision mod is a good compromise between the two vision modes, but suffers the similar problem that I will still always have it on. This is still a problem because you miss out on the games true visuals as you will always play in cell shaded Tron mode as aliens. Whats needed is a good compromise between Twiliteblue's vision mod and normal view.
Make it temporary. You tap 'F' and it emits a sonar like visual like seen in the <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0txpeJUsbCw" target="_blank">AV experiment video</a>. For the next 10 secs or so your view is that of Twiliteblue's mod and it slowly fades back into normal view during that time. The drawback could simply be the fact you need to tap f every 10 secs...or also add a small energy cost to it (counter macros). This way you don't miss out on the visuals during the vast majority of your time playing aliens ...and you have a good AV mode when you need it. Also like this AV is not a complete no-brainer alien ability as you need to know and predict when to start activating it.
I'm saying let's take twiliteblue's vision mod, tweak it as necessary, and make it <b>permanent</b>. So <b>of course</b> you'd have it on <u>all the time</u> - you aren't given any other option (and it should be such that there should be no reason for you to ever want it turned off).
There are two main features of alien vision that make it so useful:
- It highlights edges: adding sharp contrast between edges and surfaces.
- It differentiates entities from geometry by colour/shade, and homogenises the textures of entities (creating almost a silhouette): adding sharp contrast between entities and geometry, and making entities visually striking. * In twiliteblue's mod, this is somewhat more subtle because of transparency, but none of the contrast is really lost.
Any implementation that kept these two features would retain AV's utility, no matter how subtle the actual visual effects are.
A natural consequence of twiliteblue's mod is that the effect is more noticeable (and therefore more useful) in darker areas and less noticeable in lighter areas - this is, I would say, working as intended.
@Kurrine: Yeah, I don't know what it would take to make particles transparent - I don't know if transparency is in the game/engine yet, but I know that it was definitely forthcoming, for the models at the very least. Would model transparency and particle transparency operate on the same system, once that's been implemented, I wonder?
For gameplay, however, I feel it should be simliar to the flashlight -- you switch it on and it kills everyone's FPS!
Really though, it's not too shabby the way it is. Most of the time, I flick it on and off to place the lerk clouds (the name escapes me) and effectively use them as cover. If this is to be a full-on, balls-to-the-wall advantageous vision, then it should highlight marines (like in Predator movies, IR) and it should show an outline (or filled shape) where clouds are.
Because... of the texture work (which is mitigated by transparency), or something else?
<!--quoteo(post=1896757:date=Jan 23 2012, 09:50 AM:name=Krizzen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Krizzen @ Jan 23 2012, 09:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1896757"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For gameplay, however, I feel it should be simliar to the flashlight -- you switch it on and it kills everyone's FPS!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol
<!--quoteo(post=1896757:date=Jan 23 2012, 09:50 AM:name=Krizzen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Krizzen @ Jan 23 2012, 09:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1896757"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If this is to be a full-on, balls-to-the-wall advantageous vision, then it should highlight marines (like in Predator movies, IR)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this is kind of how it works already.
<!--quoteo(post=1896757:date=Jan 23 2012, 09:50 AM:name=Krizzen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Krizzen @ Jan 23 2012, 09:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1896757"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and it should show an outline (or filled shape) where clouds are.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What do you mean by this?
<!--quoteo(post=1896715:date=Jan 23 2012, 05:48 AM:name=robownz7)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (robownz7 @ Jan 23 2012, 05:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1896715"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm against it being on all the time. I want to see the map clearly and regularly and opt in to alien vision when necessary. Would you have marines have flashlight or night vision on all the time too? Doesn't make sense.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To be clear, my suggestion is that we use twiliteblue's vision mod (or *<u>something like it</u>*) as the default mode. You can see the map clearly and regularly - actually, you can see it more clearly thanks to the outlined edges.
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There are *<u>two main features</u>* of alien vision that make it so useful:
- It highlights edges: adding sharp contrast between edges and surfaces.
- It differentiates entities from geometry by colour/shade, and homogenises the textures of entities (creating almost a silhouette): adding sharp contrast between entities and geometry, and making entities visually striking. * In twiliteblue's mod, this is somewhat more subtle because of transparency, but none of the contrast is really lost.
Any implementation that kept these two features would retain AV's utility, no matter how subtle the actual visual effects are.
A natural consequence of twiliteblue's mod is that the effect is more noticeable (and therefore more useful) in darker areas and less noticeable in lighter areas - this is, I would say, working as intended.<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please read my reasoning:
<!--quoteo(post=1896333:date=Jan 21 2012, 05:28 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Jan 21 2012, 05:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1896333"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let's see.
Aliens cannot attack unless they're standing right next to marines, while marines can attack aliens at any distance.
Is that not disadvantage enough?
Now, let's discuss why always-on-AV is a good idea.
1- It highlights geometries. Aliens need to have good environmental awareness simply to be effective as highly-mobile units - and AV helps tremendously with that, it sets a baseline for competence. It's a tool that every alien should have and use.
2- It highlights players. Aliens need to have good situational awareness to be effective as melee units - and AV helps tremendously with that, it sets a baseline for competence. It's a tool that every alien should have and use.
3- A lot of people play with AV always (or 95% of the time) on anyway.
Now, let's discuss why twiliteblue's mod (or something like it) is ideal.
4- A corollary to 3 above, if a lot of people play with it always on anyway, you get an Arkham Asylum situation, where all the effort that went into textures/etc. is ignored for the sake of effective play. With transparency, you get the best of both worlds.
5- It allows players to much more easily differentiate between dark and light areas. Players are no longer dark/light-blind.
6- It looks different to marine vision, further accentuating the difference between the two sides, without being arbitrarily (i.e. serves no other purpose) different.
7- It doesn't look like Tron.
8- It looks cool.
What about why giving AV any sort of disadvantage is a bad idea?
9- As discussed in 1 and 2, it is an effective, and necessary, tool for effective alien play. Giving it a penalty is like giving players a penalty for playing aliens. We've been given a weapon to use against an enemy, so why shouldn't we use it?
10- It divides the playerbase as to what constitutes "the right way to play the game".
And if we do go with transparency, then there would be no reason not to always use AV, so even more players would just keep it on all the time anyway. Which brings us back to 3, in a way:
11- There is no reason not to always use AV, so we should just have AV always-on.
12- By establishing a standard (always-on), you keep the playerbase undivided as to what constitutes "the right way to play the game".
The main point in all this, is that AV <b>isn't</b> about giving alien players an <i>advantage</i>, but about <b>mitigating</b> their <u>inherent</u> <i>disadvantages</i> and <b>enabling</b> them to play the way they are <i>designed</i> to.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i think the AV should make only the models brighter