<!--quoteo(post=1920204:date=Mar 31 2012, 01:01 PM:name=Molecule)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Molecule @ Mar 31 2012, 01:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920204"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lerks are a complete joke atm, like UWE are trolling us.
They're virtually un-hittable in flight even with 4+ marines shooting at them and when you do actually hit them they don't take any damage due to the pathetic hit reg we currently have. The fact that a lerk can fly into a group of marines and survive is laughable.
Lerks are so bad in fact that the lerk players have now taken to 1v1'ing marines head on.. spikes vs marine weapons and the lerks are winning.
I can solo a fade but I can't touch a lerk? It turns in my direction and I get instagibbed by spikes.
If you want to win any game you play, just all go Lerk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What are you talking about? Soloing a fade and not a lerk? As a marine I have never survived a fade on my own, nor have I seen anyone do so unless the fade is a newbie. As a lerk I've never been able to take on a marine on my own without hit and run tactics.
<!--quoteo(post=1920298:date=Mar 31 2012, 03:42 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Mar 31 2012, 03:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920298"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yep perch is one of those mechanics you should try to avoid using as a player<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not necessarily. I spent about 10 minutes last night perched in a corner of warehouse shooting spikes. It was the most fun and humorous 10 minutes of gameplay I've had so far. The marines could not find me at all, I just sat up there shooting them and structures and laughing my butt off. They were all running in circles and bickering on the open chat channel. I only managed to kill two marines, but the havoc and confusion I wreaked was probably worth it. Of course when they did finally find me I was unable to fly away in time.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited April 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1920477:date=Apr 1 2012, 01:03 PM:name=Argathor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Argathor @ Apr 1 2012, 01:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920477"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still believe the Lerk requires significant changes. The lerks are powerful against low-medium skilled (or in-game performance) marines and weak against high skilled (or in-game performance) marines. It wasn't so apparent in last nights matches as the best shooters were all on Fana's team while he was dominating as Lerk.
The only fix to this problem is making the Lerks attacks ranged. I think moving away from the NS1 Lerk in this manner has been a huge mistake that will eventually need to be addressed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hurr.
What you say is basically true though. No offense to the 420 and All-In guys, they're all decent players, but the only reason I was able to go on that rampage, 27-0 as lerk over two rounds, was because they didn't hit me much at all. Against skilled marines, I'm very rarely able to get many frags and sporing is quite dangerous because all it takes is one well-aimed shotgun shot. Take a look at how long 420's and All-In's lerks survived in the matches against .eu by comparison.
The flight model right now is quite good, although I think it's too easy to keep momentum through sharp turns. If you turn 180 on a dime, IMO you should lose most, if not all, of your "glide speed".
As I have said in threads concerning the lerk earlier, I'm not a fan of the crop duster spores. I understand all too well why UWE wants spores changed from the NS1 model, having played lerk a fair bit back then as well, but in my opinion crop duster spores cause more new problems than they solve. They're very potent once deployed, but it's too dangerous to use them against skilled marines. It also leads to very formulaic, almost binary, gameplay situations where the outcome of a confrontation is more or less decided by whether or not the lerk succeeds in his suicide mission.
<!--quoteo(post=1920477:date=Apr 1 2012, 07:03 AM:name=Argathor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Argathor @ Apr 1 2012, 07:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920477"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still believe the Lerk requires significant changes. The lerks are powerful against low-medium skilled (or in-game performance) marines and weak against high skilled (or in-game performance) marines. It wasn't so apparent in last nights matches as the best shooters were all on Fana's team while he was dominating as Lerk.
The only fix to this problem is making the Lerks attacks ranged. I think moving away from the NS1 Lerk in this manner has been a huge mistake that will eventually need to be addressed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This doesn't sound good at all. Think of all the complaints the marines will field when lerks sit in a vent and shoot ranged spores incessantly. It would be much easier for the lerk that way. It will also detract from the fun of being a lerk, removing the excitement of gliding through a marine base. I say decrease spore damage a tad and make it easier for marines to defend themselves from these glide attacks.
<!--quoteo(post=1920623:date=Apr 1 2012, 01:37 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Apr 1 2012, 01:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920623"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The flight model right now is quite good, although I think it's too easy to keep momentum through sharp turns. If you turn 180 on a dime, IMO you should lose most, if not all, of your "glide speed".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1920308:date=Mar 31 2012, 09:58 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Mar 31 2012, 09:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920308"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've found playing Lerk to be profoundly frustrating due to this(the delay, not roosting). I like making risky aggressive plays like in NS1, but for that to work you need to be able to react instantly when you start taking damage and right now you simply can't. It forces me to stick to very conservative tactics instead which isn't as fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you wait to react until you take damage, you are way too slow. You have to react to POSSIBLE damage.
Waiting for the damage indicator to light up before you dodge is a sure-fire way of spending most of your time waiting for your next egg to spawn.
ArgathorJoin Date: 2011-07-18Member: 110942Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1920589:date=Apr 1 2012, 06:39 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Apr 1 2012, 06:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920589"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How would you make spores ranged?
NS1-style? Dropping with momentum and floating into place? Something else?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Im not sure, perhaps similar to the flame thrower. Giving the Lerk the ability to have some control of where the spores go but also capable of being out of sight, the range would be the key though.
What you say is basically true though. No offense to the 420 and All-In guys, they're all decent players, but the only reason I was able to go on that rampage, 27-0 as lerk over two rounds, was because they didn't hit me much at all. Against skilled marines, I'm very rarely able to get many frags and sporing is quite dangerous because all it takes is one well-aimed shotgun shot. Take a look at how long 420's and All-In's lerks survived in the matches against .eu by comparison.
The flight model right now is quite good, although I think it's too easy to keep momentum through sharp turns. If you turn 180 on a dime, IMO you should lose most, if not all, of your "glide speed".
As I have said in threads concerning the lerk earlier, I'm not a fan of the crop duster spores. I understand all too well why UWE wants spores changed from the NS1 model, having played lerk a fair bit back then as well, but in my opinion crop duster spores cause more new problems than they solve. They're very potent once deployed, but it's too dangerous to use them against skilled marines. It also leads to very formulaic, almost binary, gameplay situations where the outcome of a confrontation is more or less decided by whether or not the lerk succeeds in his suicide mission.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1920314:date=Mar 31 2012, 04:10 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Mar 31 2012, 04:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920314"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hahaha, this is my favourite part about being a 400ms lagger. I can empty an entire lmg clip and pistol clip into a lerk before hes even seen me come around the corner.
DIVINE JUSTICEEEEEE<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yea, but I'm usually at 60-80ms and I can still kill a lerk camping in a vent or through an arch-way with ease. It's just when they're in the air that I have difficulty :<
There is definitely something up with the lerk hitbox. I'm not sure why or when it started, but I can basically run into a marine base with 5 of them in there as a lerk, and circle stafe / bile bomb 3-4 times, and run out without worry. I'd love to say they can't aim, but I know for a fact there were a few on there who were actually really good shooters. I asked them and they said the hits didn't seem to reg or it looked like I was just eating a ton of bullets. I've been playing it extensively lately to test it out, and I don't pretend to be "good", but the amount of damage I'm doing as a hive 2 lerk is almost game breaking at times. It requires half the marine team to stay at home to try to deal with me, and I will still manage to take out 3-4 buildings in a few minutes.
I am also noticing a lot more people going lerk lately as well, which could indicate something is up, as people are catching on.
<!--quoteo(post=1921001:date=Apr 2 2012, 02:14 PM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Apr 2 2012, 02:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1921001"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That isn't actually how it is at all in game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah it's more like:
Skulk: High DPS, low health, very fast
Gorge: Healer, builder
Lerk: Unhittable, long range medium dps, base destroyer, super fast
Fade: High DPS, Medium tank, fast (due to blink + shadow)
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited April 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1920908:date=Apr 2 2012, 02:51 PM:name=xorex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xorex @ Apr 2 2012, 02:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920908"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you're a good lerk, I think we all get it bro<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, that isn't what I was saying at all. Try reading it again.
The Lerk is infact the most powerfull unit in the game. If we take a look at the numbers:
Sipkes, 12shots per secon, min. DMG 20, max. DMG 24, Damagetype light (4 DMG = 1 armorpoint)
A marine with lvl 3 armor has 100HP und 75 AP, so a lerk needs 20 hits to kill the marine --> around 2s.
Now we take bilebomb into this. BB does 8 DMG for 5 seconds to the armor, thats 40 armor DMG to a group of marines (BB has a big AoE). So if the Lerk launches 2 BBs at the marines he can be sure all are down to 100HP and 0AP! So a Lerk need now only 5 hits to kill a marine and that faster than he can react (0,4s).
So as soon as the 2. Hive is up the lerk is the most powerfull and dangerous alien in the game. Just by the fact they can keep the rines at 0AP.
<!--quoteo(post=1921061:date=Apr 2 2012, 05:30 PM:name=Floodinator)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Floodinator @ Apr 2 2012, 05:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1921061"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A marine with lvl 3 armor has 100HP und 75 AP, so a lerk needs 20 hits to kill the marine --> around 2s.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, you can kill a marine in 2 seconds<i> if you sit at point blank and he doesn't kill you in half a second</i>. Oh, and he has to never get a medpack or nanoshield, and he has to have unupgraded armor. So...maybe that's why I don't see this happen often.
You raise a good point, though - the incredibly lame accuracy spread on spikes is probably the only thing preventing lerks ripping a lot of stuff apart reliably. I really don't like designs like that, because it's so boring to play lerk before bile bomb is unlocked and find out your primary weapon is a cheap joke. Ah well.
For anyone who wants to understand spikes' accuracy spread, 1v1 a rifle marine from the very far corner of Crevice on ns2_summit (at the top), with the marine at the far opposite end of the room. Have both of you aim at the other player and just spray bullets/spikes - tell me if it feels fair to you as the lerk.
<!--quoteo(post=1921073:date=Apr 2 2012, 06:11 PM:name=LV426-Colonist)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LV426-Colonist @ Apr 2 2012, 06:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1921073"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The spores are very situational.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How so? They basically work in every situation. Sure, you have to commit suicide in every situation worth using them, but they always create their extremely one-sided effect.
<!--quoteo(post=1921085:date=Apr 2 2012, 05:30 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Apr 2 2012, 05:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1921085"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How so? They basically work in every situation. Sure, you have to commit suicide in every situation worth using them, but they always create their extremely one-sided effect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have to know when to use them and when to keep your distance.
<!--quoteo(post=1920204:date=Mar 31 2012, 03:01 PM:name=Molecule)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Molecule @ Mar 31 2012, 03:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920204"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lerks are a complete joke atm, like UWE are trolling us.
They're virtually un-hittable in flight even with 4+ marines shooting at them and when you do actually hit them they don't take any damage due to the pathetic hit reg we currently have. The fact that a lerk can fly into a group of marines and survive is laughable.
Lerks are so bad in fact that the lerk players have now taken to 1v1'ing marines head on.. spikes vs marine weapons and the lerks are winning.
I can solo a fade but I can't touch a lerk? It turns in my direction and I get instagibbed by spikes.
If you want to win any game you play, just all go Lerk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
They're virtually un-hittable in flight even with 4+ marines shooting at them and when you do actually hit them they don't take any damage due to the pathetic hit reg we currently have. The fact that a lerk can fly into a group of marines and survive is laughable.
Lerks are so bad in fact that the lerk players have now taken to 1v1'ing marines head on.. spikes vs marine weapons and the lerks are winning.
I can solo a fade but I can't touch a lerk? It turns in my direction and I get instagibbed by spikes.
If you want to win any game you play, just all go Lerk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What are you talking about? Soloing a fade and not a lerk? As a marine I have never survived a fade on my own, nor have I seen anyone do so unless the fade is a newbie. As a lerk I've never been able to take on a marine on my own without hit and run tactics.
Not necessarily. I spent about 10 minutes last night perched in a corner of warehouse shooting spikes. It was the most fun and humorous 10 minutes of gameplay I've had so far. The marines could not find me at all, I just sat up there shooting them and structures and laughing my butt off. They were all running in circles and bickering on the open chat channel. I only managed to kill two marines, but the havoc and confusion I wreaked was probably worth it. Of course when they did finally find me I was unable to fly away in time.
The only fix to this problem is making the Lerks attacks ranged. I think moving away from the NS1 Lerk in this manner has been a huge mistake that will eventually need to be addressed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hurr.
What you say is basically true though. No offense to the 420 and All-In guys, they're all decent players, but the only reason I was able to go on that rampage, 27-0 as lerk over two rounds, was because they didn't hit me much at all. Against skilled marines, I'm very rarely able to get many frags and sporing is quite dangerous because all it takes is one well-aimed shotgun shot. Take a look at how long 420's and All-In's lerks survived in the matches against .eu by comparison.
The flight model right now is quite good, although I think it's too easy to keep momentum through sharp turns. If you turn 180 on a dime, IMO you should lose most, if not all, of your "glide speed".
As I have said in threads concerning the lerk earlier, I'm not a fan of the crop duster spores. I understand all too well why UWE wants spores changed from the NS1 model, having played lerk a fair bit back then as well, but in my opinion crop duster spores cause more new problems than they solve. They're very potent once deployed, but it's too dangerous to use them against skilled marines. It also leads to very formulaic, almost binary, gameplay situations where the outcome of a confrontation is more or less decided by whether or not the lerk succeeds in his suicide mission.
The only fix to this problem is making the Lerks attacks ranged. I think moving away from the NS1 Lerk in this manner has been a huge mistake that will eventually need to be addressed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This doesn't sound good at all. Think of all the complaints the marines will field when lerks sit in a vent and shoot ranged spores incessantly. It would be much easier for the lerk that way. It will also detract from the fun of being a lerk, removing the excitement of gliding through a marine base. I say decrease spore damage a tad and make it easier for marines to defend themselves from these glide attacks.
I second this.
If you wait to react until you take damage, you are way too slow. You have to react to POSSIBLE damage.
Waiting for the damage indicator to light up before you dodge is a sure-fire way of spending most of your time waiting for your next egg to spawn.
NS1-style? Dropping with momentum and floating into place? Something else?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im not sure, perhaps similar to the flame thrower. Giving the Lerk the ability to have some control of where the spores go but also capable of being out of sight, the range would be the key though.
What you say is basically true though. No offense to the 420 and All-In guys, they're all decent players, but the only reason I was able to go on that rampage, 27-0 as lerk over two rounds, was because they didn't hit me much at all. Against skilled marines, I'm very rarely able to get many frags and sporing is quite dangerous because all it takes is one well-aimed shotgun shot. Take a look at how long 420's and All-In's lerks survived in the matches against .eu by comparison.
The flight model right now is quite good, although I think it's too easy to keep momentum through sharp turns. If you turn 180 on a dime, IMO you should lose most, if not all, of your "glide speed".
As I have said in threads concerning the lerk earlier, I'm not a fan of the crop duster spores. I understand all too well why UWE wants spores changed from the NS1 model, having played lerk a fair bit back then as well, but in my opinion crop duster spores cause more new problems than they solve. They're very potent once deployed, but it's too dangerous to use them against skilled marines. It also leads to very formulaic, almost binary, gameplay situations where the outcome of a confrontation is more or less decided by whether or not the lerk succeeds in his suicide mission.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you're a good lerk, I think we all get it bro
DIVINE JUSTICEEEEEE<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea, but I'm usually at 60-80ms and I can still kill a lerk camping in a vent or through an arch-way with ease. It's just when they're in the air that I have difficulty :<
I am also noticing a lot more people going lerk lately as well, which could indicate something is up, as people are catching on.
Gorge= Healer
Lerk= High sustained DPS
Fade=High burst DPS
Onos= Tank
Gorge= Healer
Lerk= High sustained DPS
Fade=High burst DPS
Onos= Tank<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That isn't actually how it is at all in game.
Yeah it's more like:
Skulk: High DPS, low health, very fast
Gorge: Healer, builder
Lerk: Unhittable, long range medium dps, base destroyer, super fast
Fade: High DPS, Medium tank, fast (due to blink + shadow)
Onos: Super high dps, super heavy tank, slow
No, that isn't what I was saying at all. Try reading it again.
If we take a look at the numbers:
Sipkes, 12shots per secon, min. DMG 20, max. DMG 24, Damagetype light (4 DMG = 1 armorpoint)
A marine with lvl 3 armor has 100HP und 75 AP, so a lerk needs 20 hits to kill the marine --> around 2s.
Now we take bilebomb into this. BB does 8 DMG for 5 seconds to the armor, thats 40 armor DMG to a group of marines (BB has a big AoE). So if the Lerk launches 2 BBs at the marines he can be sure all are down to 100HP and 0AP! So a Lerk need now only 5 hits to kill a marine and that faster than he can react (0,4s).
So as soon as the 2. Hive is up the lerk is the most powerfull and dangerous alien in the game. Just by the fact they can keep the rines at 0AP.
Yes, you can kill a marine in 2 seconds<i> if you sit at point blank and he doesn't kill you in half a second</i>. Oh, and he has to never get a medpack or nanoshield, and he has to have unupgraded armor. So...maybe that's why I don't see this happen often.
You raise a good point, though - the incredibly lame accuracy spread on spikes is probably the only thing preventing lerks ripping a lot of stuff apart reliably. I really don't like designs like that, because it's so boring to play lerk before bile bomb is unlocked and find out your primary weapon is a cheap joke. Ah well.
For anyone who wants to understand spikes' accuracy spread, 1v1 a rifle marine from the very far corner of Crevice on ns2_summit (at the top), with the marine at the far opposite end of the room. Have both of you aim at the other player and just spray bullets/spikes - tell me if it feels fair to you as the lerk.
<!--quoteo(post=1921073:date=Apr 2 2012, 06:11 PM:name=LV426-Colonist)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LV426-Colonist @ Apr 2 2012, 06:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1921073"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The spores are very situational.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How so? They basically work in every situation. Sure, you have to commit suicide in every situation worth using them, but they always create their extremely one-sided effect.
You have to know when to use them and when to keep your distance.
Committing suicide is just a waste of RES.
They're virtually un-hittable in flight even with 4+ marines shooting at them and when you do actually hit them they don't take any damage due to the pathetic hit reg we currently have. The fact that a lerk can fly into a group of marines and survive is laughable.
Lerks are so bad in fact that the lerk players have now taken to 1v1'ing marines head on.. spikes vs marine weapons and the lerks are winning.
I can solo a fade but I can't touch a lerk? It turns in my direction and I get instagibbed by spikes.
If you want to win any game you play, just all go Lerk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i feel the same