<!--quoteo(post=1920543:date=Apr 1 2012, 12:45 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Apr 1 2012, 12:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920543"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am also an old NS1 player and I don't miss it, clearly being an old player adds more weight to my opinion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1920550:date=Apr 1 2012, 04:59 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Apr 1 2012, 04:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920550"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, you're only allowed to have an opinion on what's fun in NS1 if that opinion is 'everything, without question or qualification'?
What's the point in that?
NS1 as a game was pretty fun, NS1 as a collection of dumb gimmick tactics was stupid and annoying. Less time spent looking for the last alien after the hive dies, more time spent playing actual games where you fight stuff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
actually in number of your posts (many of them) you go on to say how NS1 is the same as NS2. This alone blows my mind, and how you tend to describe ns1 usually puts things to rest. you simply did not like ns1 or understood certain about the game which made is so important, which should of been the ground work of NS2. (which were ignored)
So yeah, whats fun may vary from person to person but played so many hours of ns1, i've never met anyone to dislike some of the basic "fun" things you just said as "cheap gimmicks".
oh how i miss playing on guns4backtschool servers, so many years of fun...funny how these cheap gimmicks tend to grow on you, wouldn't you say?
Perhaps when the game has more than 3 playable maps (mineshaft is debateable) the restriction will be less apparent, because there is more variety and every game won't seem exactly the same ..maybe.
yes I too am really missing the relos.... everything is far too predictable in NS2 games. In ns1 there was often a very high risk/reward payout for relocating. In ns2... well it's just risk for nothing really.
I also miss the ninja phase gates, so much more difficult now with power nodes added in. The only one that really works that I have found is just outside of cave. Apart from that it's pretty obvious when marines are putting down a PG (the lights turn on for one).
I must admit having the ability to relocate everywhere, in addition to the maps just generally being larger with more hive rooms could make things a lot more interesting, since it adds a whole array of possible new tactics. Sometimes a good reloc is essential for marines to win a game, this is even more apparent currently with random starting locations (where some are just horrible for marines but good for aliens and vice versa)
Though I do think they shouldn't be placeable in a vent, that's just stupid. (Not to mention that they probably wouldn't even fit in a vent)
As for ninja PGs, infestation giving map awareness also really screwed that up, it's pretty much IMPOSSIBLE now for marines to sneak in and ninja a PG somewhere since cysts will have spotted you for the entire team to see. And on top of that there's also power nodes you have to account for.
<!--quoteo(post=1920738:date=Apr 2 2012, 01:36 AM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Apr 2 2012, 01:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920738"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for ninja PGs, infestation giving map awareness also really screwed that up, it's pretty much IMPOSSIBLE now for marines to sneak in and ninja a PG somewhere since cysts will have spotted you for the entire team to see. And on top of that there's also power nodes you have to account for.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really don't see why this is a bad thing.
If I've spent ten or fifteen minutes playing a game, I don't want to have it abruptly end because someone build a phase gate and rushed the hive, possible only because the game has no decent information gathering system for commanders.
Taken in any sort of remotely in-universe sense, it should not be possible for marines to waltz into alien territory and drop a building without the aliens noticing. The only reason that IS possible is because the game does a poor job of giving you the information you would have if it were a real situation.
That's not a good thing for a game to do, if you go into a game thinking 'I am weaker than anyone not suffering from a serious disability would be in real life' it's not an enjoyable experience.
If I'm playing as an alien bacteria with a hive consciousness, I should know everything everyone else on my team knows, or at the very least, I should notice when a horrible monkey in big heavy boots and armor comes clomping into my hive room and opens a rift in the spacetime continuum to let all his horrible monkey friends in.
For example, today on Mineshaft I decided to relocate to Ore Processing by moving marines through Drill Repair, then Central Drilling, and into Ore. This caught the alien team completely off-guard because they all ran straight to Crushing Machine. That is where they expected our team to go. Because of this, I got a marine team established in Ore, and killed the Cave hive easily in one attempt. This kind of strategic maneuvering is NECESSARY to make NS2 as great as it deserves to be.
But the maps will STAGNATE and become OLD AND BORING if we are forced to play them the same way every time. Even 3 different choices are not enough. I believe that the players might require TOTAL freedom in establishing bases. This is perhaps the most important issue regarding changes from NS1 to NS2.
If NS2 maps are designed to offer enough variety of gameplay, then it can still work VERY well like this. So we will just have to see how the *hopefully* bigger, better maps play.
<!--quoteo(post=1920705:date=Apr 1 2012, 01:44 PM:name=glimmerman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (glimmerman @ Apr 1 2012, 01:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920705"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yes I too am really missing the relos.... everything is far too predictable in NS2 games. In ns1 there was often a very high risk/reward payout for relocating. In ns2... well it's just risk for nothing really.
I also miss the ninja phase gates, so much more difficult now with power nodes added in. The only one that really works that I have found is just outside of cave. Apart from that it's pretty obvious when marines are putting down a PG (the lights turn on for one).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, the only real place a "ninja phase gate" works in NS2 is outside Cave, and even then it's difficult because as soon as a marine steps on a cyst in that area all the aliens know he is there anyway, plus he might have to even kill a couple to clear space for a phase gate, so it's not even "ninja" really.
Gameplay would have been more interesting if hive locations weren't pre-determined. Just find a room with enough space to plonk the beast down from the ceiling and go nuts.
Even having differrent 'forms' of hives. Ie: Instead of hanging from the ceiling, grow it from the ground or off the side of a wall.
Comments
Indubitably.
What's the point in that?
NS1 as a game was pretty fun, NS1 as a collection of dumb gimmick tactics was stupid and annoying. Less time spent looking for the last alien after the hive dies, more time spent playing actual games where you fight stuff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
actually in number of your posts (many of them) you go on to say how NS1 is the same as NS2. This alone blows my mind, and how you tend to describe ns1 usually puts things to rest. you simply did not like ns1 or understood certain about the game which made is so important, which should of been the ground work of NS2. (which were ignored)
So yeah, whats fun may vary from person to person but played so many hours of ns1, i've never met anyone to dislike some of the basic "fun" things you just said as "cheap gimmicks".
oh how i miss playing on guns4backtschool servers, so many years of fun...funny how these cheap gimmicks tend to grow on you, wouldn't you say?
I also miss the ninja phase gates, so much more difficult now with power nodes added in. The only one that really works that I have found is just outside of cave. Apart from that it's pretty obvious when marines are putting down a PG (the lights turn on for one).
Though I do think they shouldn't be placeable in a vent, that's just stupid. (Not to mention that they probably wouldn't even fit in a vent)
As for ninja PGs, infestation giving map awareness also really screwed that up, it's pretty much IMPOSSIBLE now for marines to sneak in and ninja a PG somewhere since cysts will have spotted you for the entire team to see. And on top of that there's also power nodes you have to account for.
I really don't see why this is a bad thing.
If I've spent ten or fifteen minutes playing a game, I don't want to have it abruptly end because someone build a phase gate and rushed the hive, possible only because the game has no decent information gathering system for commanders.
Taken in any sort of remotely in-universe sense, it should not be possible for marines to waltz into alien territory and drop a building without the aliens noticing. The only reason that IS possible is because the game does a poor job of giving you the information you would have if it were a real situation.
That's not a good thing for a game to do, if you go into a game thinking 'I am weaker than anyone not suffering from a serious disability would be in real life' it's not an enjoyable experience.
If I'm playing as an alien bacteria with a hive consciousness, I should know everything everyone else on my team knows, or at the very least, I should notice when a horrible monkey in big heavy boots and armor comes clomping into my hive room and opens a rift in the spacetime continuum to let all his horrible monkey friends in.
But the maps will STAGNATE and become OLD AND BORING if we are forced to play them the same way every time. Even 3 different choices are not enough. I believe that the players might require TOTAL freedom in establishing bases. This is perhaps the most important issue regarding changes from NS1 to NS2.
If NS2 maps are designed to offer enough variety of gameplay, then it can still work VERY well like this. So we will just have to see how the *hopefully* bigger, better maps play.
I also miss the ninja phase gates, so much more difficult now with power nodes added in. The only one that really works that I have found is just outside of cave. Apart from that it's pretty obvious when marines are putting down a PG (the lights turn on for one).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, the only real place a "ninja phase gate" works in NS2 is outside Cave, and even then it's difficult because as soon as a marine steps on a cyst in that area all the aliens know he is there anyway, plus he might have to even kill a couple to clear space for a phase gate, so it's not even "ninja" really.
Even having differrent 'forms' of hives. Ie: Instead of hanging from the ceiling, grow it from the ground or off the side of a wall.
But anyway, pipe dream.