210 isn't fun anymore
Floodinator
[HBZ] Member Join Date: 2005-02-22 Member: 42087Members, Reinforced - Shadow
[HBZ] Member Join Date: 2005-02-22 Member: 42087Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">No raging</div>After some rounds on the new Build I need to say, that I can't enjoy NS2 in this build. The direction it is going is good but some things need to be changed.
Some points I wan't to bring up:
1. Skulk feels very slow and les controlable now. The walljump can't be used as a good travel method now. Leap is to "weak", but since you can have it at 1min mark I think it needs to be so. Also the feedback for xeno is hard to understand (I can say when I am gona explode). The delay between leap and bite is to high.
2. Lerk is to slow to be a realy ambusher. Poison bite is nice if the Marine com sleeps but with the actual resincome the poison is usless it should corrode the Armor instead of hurting the health, Lerk has gas for this.
Umbra is ok and it will be changed anyway to be more usefull.
3. The Fade needs a lower delay from blink to swipe, it was changed some builds ago but since the armor ups are more effective now it should be removed again. The blink time should be increased by 2 or 3s, so he can escape better, but the delay between blinks should be increased as tradeoff. Vortex is ok and depends alot on the situation.
4. Gorge is ok, only the max of 3 Hydras and 10 clogs is a bit anoying sometimes, especially in bigger games or on small games. Maybe allow the com to research additional hydras/clogs on a mature hive. It's unfair that marines can spam longrange def and a Gorge can only place 3. It is the only realy def structures for the Aliens beside the melee range whip.
5. Onos feels alright, but there is still some major stuck problems sometimes when you evolve Onos.
6. Alien com is too stressfull. He needs to scout, mist, build, research, heal, disorient, replace cysts, move whips, microing Drifters/enzyme etc. Painfull gardening.
7. Resincome is very slow compared to Marines and also the number of total res used for ups is ways to big compared to the Marines. Make the researches cheaper but double the research time. The total res used to get all ups should be almost the same as Marines need and not almost twice as much.
8. Whips are usless as soon as 1 ARC is on the field even if it has bombard, the ARCs can be moved out of range and kill em, something a whip can not.
9. JP can fly way to long and are tooo fast to really be contered by any Alien, not sure if Spider will help.
10. ARCs are to powerfull. To high range too much DMG for a mobile unit. You need to get close with a whip and have LoS or a well organised geoup of Aliens, but as soon as the Marine com splits em in 2 or 3 groups Aliens can not deal with em. Also the AoE is to large. Most games are won by ARC spam.
11. Marines have a big advantage in getting res, they can have 4 or more RTs in a very short time with nanoconstruct, while Aliens need ages to cysts and build the RT. Do faster resticks for aliens but lower for marines, increase the harvester costs but extractorcosts stay where they are. Asymetry.
12. Overall resincome compared to used Tres to get all ups as Marines is to high and ends in spamfest of any kind. Lot of things need to be more expensive especially turrets and ARCs
13. There in no more early game and everything feels to fast. It is more rush for RTs in the beginning and the start spaming. Tacticas as Marines are almost inexistant and almost everything the Aliens do can be contered by spaming Meds, Shield, Turrets or ARCs. If the gorge has hard limits for his things the Marines also should have for ARCs and turrets. Aliens can't use the res to gain an advantage with buildings because of high mobile ARCs. 200 res are gone in 10s. While aliens can't do the same with bilebomb.
14. As Marine your only job is to get RTs, the rest does the com with ARCs and turrets, I often feel usless on the Field.
15. Marine shouldn't be able to sprint, they are more mobile than most Aliens. And with JP you can be linke a fly that avoids every slap.
16. The game performance is bad in this build because of the many res you have to use, ending in GL and ARC only playstyle.
There more points but I am to drunk to weite em all down. Build 210 feels like onslaught on UT 2k4. Hope you can change som estuff for 211 so it feels a bit slower and that the AI units lose on importance and the players are the key to win again.
Some points I wan't to bring up:
1. Skulk feels very slow and les controlable now. The walljump can't be used as a good travel method now. Leap is to "weak", but since you can have it at 1min mark I think it needs to be so. Also the feedback for xeno is hard to understand (I can say when I am gona explode). The delay between leap and bite is to high.
2. Lerk is to slow to be a realy ambusher. Poison bite is nice if the Marine com sleeps but with the actual resincome the poison is usless it should corrode the Armor instead of hurting the health, Lerk has gas for this.
Umbra is ok and it will be changed anyway to be more usefull.
3. The Fade needs a lower delay from blink to swipe, it was changed some builds ago but since the armor ups are more effective now it should be removed again. The blink time should be increased by 2 or 3s, so he can escape better, but the delay between blinks should be increased as tradeoff. Vortex is ok and depends alot on the situation.
4. Gorge is ok, only the max of 3 Hydras and 10 clogs is a bit anoying sometimes, especially in bigger games or on small games. Maybe allow the com to research additional hydras/clogs on a mature hive. It's unfair that marines can spam longrange def and a Gorge can only place 3. It is the only realy def structures for the Aliens beside the melee range whip.
5. Onos feels alright, but there is still some major stuck problems sometimes when you evolve Onos.
6. Alien com is too stressfull. He needs to scout, mist, build, research, heal, disorient, replace cysts, move whips, microing Drifters/enzyme etc. Painfull gardening.
7. Resincome is very slow compared to Marines and also the number of total res used for ups is ways to big compared to the Marines. Make the researches cheaper but double the research time. The total res used to get all ups should be almost the same as Marines need and not almost twice as much.
8. Whips are usless as soon as 1 ARC is on the field even if it has bombard, the ARCs can be moved out of range and kill em, something a whip can not.
9. JP can fly way to long and are tooo fast to really be contered by any Alien, not sure if Spider will help.
10. ARCs are to powerfull. To high range too much DMG for a mobile unit. You need to get close with a whip and have LoS or a well organised geoup of Aliens, but as soon as the Marine com splits em in 2 or 3 groups Aliens can not deal with em. Also the AoE is to large. Most games are won by ARC spam.
11. Marines have a big advantage in getting res, they can have 4 or more RTs in a very short time with nanoconstruct, while Aliens need ages to cysts and build the RT. Do faster resticks for aliens but lower for marines, increase the harvester costs but extractorcosts stay where they are. Asymetry.
12. Overall resincome compared to used Tres to get all ups as Marines is to high and ends in spamfest of any kind. Lot of things need to be more expensive especially turrets and ARCs
13. There in no more early game and everything feels to fast. It is more rush for RTs in the beginning and the start spaming. Tacticas as Marines are almost inexistant and almost everything the Aliens do can be contered by spaming Meds, Shield, Turrets or ARCs. If the gorge has hard limits for his things the Marines also should have for ARCs and turrets. Aliens can't use the res to gain an advantage with buildings because of high mobile ARCs. 200 res are gone in 10s. While aliens can't do the same with bilebomb.
14. As Marine your only job is to get RTs, the rest does the com with ARCs and turrets, I often feel usless on the Field.
15. Marine shouldn't be able to sprint, they are more mobile than most Aliens. And with JP you can be linke a fly that avoids every slap.
16. The game performance is bad in this build because of the many res you have to use, ending in GL and ARC only playstyle.
There more points but I am to drunk to weite em all down. Build 210 feels like onslaught on UT 2k4. Hope you can change som estuff for 211 so it feels a bit slower and that the AI units lose on importance and the players are the key to win again.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Let's take a look at everything that gets spammed -or basically things you're going to encounter in every engagement in the endgame of NS2 at the moment:
-jetpacks - without a counter
-Nano shield/construct - both of which are insanely OP
-out of control economy spam, 10 whips/turrets/endless structures in every room and hallway
-Arc trains (again, imba)
-Vortex (crowd control wheeee)
Every single one of those things severely detracts from the skill-based player VS player, it's basically a battle of artificial skill handicaps and static defense in the late game. And lag. Lots of lag. None of that is in any way shape or form fun for either side.
Needless to say I hope 211 improves upon many of these issues =P But I think they are at least aware of most of it.
Every point you raise boosts aliens or weakens marines. Two things I actually agree with are that ARCs and JP are overpowered.
<!--quoteo(post=1946323:date=Jun 25 2012, 03:43 AM:name=Floodinator)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Floodinator @ Jun 25 2012, 03:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1946323"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->6. Alien com is too stressfull<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I got to here before I realised you were trolling...
13. There in no more early game and everything feels to fast. It is more rush for RTs in the beginning and the start spaming. Tacticas as Marines are almost inexistant and almost everything the Aliens do can be contered by spaming Meds, Shield, Turrets or ARCs. If the gorge has hard limits for his things the Marines also should have for ARCs and turrets. Aliens can't use the res to gain an advantage with buildings because of high mobile ARCs. 200 res are gone in 10s. While aliens can't do the same with bilebomb.
...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1 : /
They've made losses for both sides incredibly frustrating making playing as a player pointless for me.
They've made commanding for both sides incredibly frustrating, the weight of the buildings feels too heavy and the game seems to be more about spamming RTs than anything else.
New gameplay favors lopsided games more, it's often a steam roll vs. stream roll instead of a tightly fought game.
I think the energy removal really killed the game for me.
Every point you raise boosts aliens or weakens marines. Two things I actually agree with are that ARCs and JP are overpowered.
I got to here before I realised you were trolling...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure I am trolling.... Instead of accusing me to be banana and a Troll and going of topic you could write why you think I am nuts, your post was very usefull, not! Youre a Marine player only as I understand your post, play Skulk only for a match, or play the Skulk from 207.
And read my post again and all of it before posting a nonesens comment like this. You were very helpfull, not!
You don't know me so you can't know that I am not a troll but still a human.
And the Aliens com, if you do it right, by f.e. using the blackscout and keeping the team uptodate is stressfull, if you don't think so go back and play build 160 to know what non stress as kham means.
Well another player for my ignore list.
<!--quoteo(post=1946342:date=Jun 24 2012, 09:00 PM:name=Dusteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dusteh @ Jun 24 2012, 09:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1946342"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->More than ever before I've noticed people leaving mid game and it's all due to the fact one team totally dominates the other now, and there is pretty much no way of turning it around.
Agree with majority of what floodinator/rantology have said here.
Looking forward to see what happens with 211.
Need more early game!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well that is another important point!
Agree with majority of what floodinator/rantology have said here.
Looking forward to see what happens with 211.
Need more early game!
As to the Gorge; fix him! I'm still hoping the Gorge gets improved both structure-wise and hopefully a small buff in his armour. The fact that a marine can still keep up to his slide-movement and take him out with a single lvl.0 clip whilst heal-spraying makes him a terrible defense-unit and a horrific glass cannon on the marine base when bio-bomb is available.
Finally towards the Lerk I think it's slightly better in B210 (especially since it's high-damage quick RoF bite was nerfed.) Making it any faster in the upcoming builds could just be an even worse experience for marines. I do like the idea of bite dealing armour damage, though then spikes are a needed must for Lerks to deal any real damage unless bite deals heavy poison damage after its armour is completely gone.
And read my post again and all of it before posting a nonesens comment like this. You were very helpfull, not!
You don't know me so you can't know that I am not a troll but still a human.
And the Aliens com, if you do it right, by f.e. using the blackscout and keeping the team uptodate is stressfull, if you don't think so go back and play build 160 to know what non stress as kham means.
Well another player for my ignore list.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hm... ok. I didn't mean it to be taken so seriously but I do disagree with a lot of the changes you're asking for. It is true that all of your comments were about buffing aliens (6 points) and nerfing marines (5 points). Some specific, hopefully thoughtful responses:
I think skulks move too fast in general. It's not a balance problem so much as the current speeds tips the game too much towards twitch gaming for my liking (much more so than NS1). I would slow the skulk movement speed down a bit and then reconsider balance stuff like damage and HP. Skulks should be able to hide and wait for marines, ambushing them, and not succeed at a frontal assault. That by design is a more interesting game to play.
Fades have a very high survivability already without needing a blink boost. It only becomes a problem if you expect to get a kill every time you blink into combat, meaning you stand adjacent to a marine and do several swipes. If you go in solo against 3 marines all bearing shotguns you should expect to die. If you go one on one vs shotgun you should survive fairly easily but use some skill. In a big fight with lots of players on both teams you should always be able to get one swipe in before blinking out. I think Fades do feel a little ineffective against level 3 armour marines though. One too many swipes required?
Khammanding has definately become more involved but it used to be downright procedural. It's still the easiest, most relaxing job you can do on the alien team, with the possible exception of a particularly lazy gorge.
I play both sides pretty evenly and I command(or khammand) probably once every 4 rounds or so. Skulking is the most fun I can have on either team, Fade is probably my best lifeform in terms of skill but I keep trying to get better at lerking. So you're way off when you suggest I'm always a marine player. I don't need to make any assumptions about how you play to see that your post was verrrry pro-alien. Fair enough?
I also disagree on your number 6 in regards to the fact that this game is attempting to be an e-sport, and playing any race in starcraft is more stressful then comming either side in NS.
The game is largely boring. As if the developers' goal was to make the most frustrating and boring FPS possible, but failed spectacularly at some points.
Babysitting arcs while they slowly crush the aliens is boring. It requires no skill and it's a foregone conclusion.
Grenade launchers are boring. The require nor allow any skill.
Onos are boring. The only reason you can kill marines with it is because of the hilariously overpowered stomp. When jetpack appear you're reduced to hit and runs trying to keep marines busy or mass cc/power node rushes because you can't hit anything.
Shooting at onos is usually boring. They are a big and slow target that require no skill to hit. When you have a jetpack you're largely immune to them except in very small and cramped rooms, and unless they overextend you know you won't have the chance to kill them before they retreat to safety.
And all of those mechanics are also extremely frustrating to aliens since once the marines teach up, they're left without any non-mass-onos-rush counter. Instead of futilely attacking the untouchable, nanoshielded marines swimming in medpacks or trying to munch on the pile of rock hard arcs under a rain of grenades the players might as well quit. As they usually do at the 10-15 minute mark.
That is excessively critical of the game. I made a snide comment at the end of a particularly frustrating game a few days ago that "this build lets you skip past the early game so you can get straight to the late game grind".
<!--quoteo(post=1946358:date=Jun 25 2012, 06:45 AM:name=Rowen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rowen @ Jun 25 2012, 06:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1946358"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Babysitting arcs while they slowly crush the aliens is boring. It requires no skill and it's a foregone conclusion.
Grenade launchers are boring. The require nor allow any skill.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, in the current build jetpacks are a ticket to immunity-land, ARC trains are without counter and grenades are spammable. It's important to note that none of these things were true 5 builds ago.
<!--quoteo(post=1946358:date=Jun 25 2012, 06:45 AM:name=Rowen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rowen @ Jun 25 2012, 06:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1946358"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Onos are boring. The only reason you can kill marines with it is because of the hilariously overpowered stomp. When jetpack appear you're reduced to hit and runs trying to keep marines busy or mass cc/power node rushes because you can't hit anything.
Shooting at onos is usually boring. They are a big and slow target that require no skill to hit. When you have a jetpack you're largely immune to them except in very small and cramped rooms, and unless they overextend you know you won't have the chance to kill them before they retreat to safety.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's true that stomp is overpowered, I'm pretty sure the devs have acknowledged it. I don't know why it hasn't been addressed yet. As for Onos being boring to play or fight against, I think it's a non-issue. If you don't want to go Onos, don't. It does fulfil a vital role and some people really enjoy playing that role. Not everyone is going to be a super-awesome twitch player. NS is a team game and a team of aliens is made stronger with a variety of lifeforms. If you're 1 on 1 Onos with a JP marine in a corridor somewhere you're doing it wrong, getting distracted by KDR & deathmatch mentality when in fact Onos is a siege unit.
<!--quoteo(post=1946358:date=Jun 25 2012, 06:45 AM:name=Rowen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rowen @ Jun 25 2012, 06:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1946358"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And all of those mechanics are also extremely frustrating to aliens since once the marines teach up, they're left without any non-mass-onos-rush counter. Instead of futilely attacking the untouchable, nanoshielded marines swimming in medpacks or trying to munch on the pile of rock hard arcs under a rain of grenades the players might as well quit. As they usually do at the 10-15 minute mark.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think there's a problem here except for that endgame stalemate where the aliens have the whole map and the marines are surrounded. This has been a problem on and off since NS1 (man, getting tired of writing that over and over). Anyway there are other options, mainly economic attrition with bile bomb, but that does require some advanced teamwork (like having an onos protect the gorge from counter-attack).
But on the whole you're judging NS on some of the newest changes which haven't had a chance to be addressed yet.
Possibly. I normally tend to the hyperbole, it's a defect of mine. Feeling is not far what I thought after some games, though.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's true that stomp is overpowered, I'm pretty sure the devs have acknowledged it. I don't know why it hasn't been addressed yet. As for Onos being boring to play or fight against, I think it's a non-issue. If you don't want to go Onos, don't. It does fulfil a vital role and some people really enjoy playing that role. Not everyone is going to be a super-awesome twitch player. NS is a team game and a team of aliens is made stronger with a variety of lifeforms. If you're 1 on 1 Onos with a JP marine in a corridor somewhere you're doing it wrong, getting distracted by KDR & deathmatch mentality when in fact Onos is a siege unit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Overpoweredness of stomp or not, I didn't care about it in my last post because it was or wasn't but because it's part of what makes the onos so dull. I'm ok with having a tank unit. What makes me sigh is the dynamic of showing your nose - hail of fire - retreat that ends when the onos player goes a bit too far. I don't really believe a game should test your <i>patience</i>, we already have jobs for that.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think there's a problem here except for that endgame stalemate where the aliens have the whole map and the marines are surrounded. This has been a problem on and off since NS1 (man, getting tired of writing that over and over). Anyway there are other options, mainly economic attrition with bile bomb, but that does require some advanced teamwork (like having an onos protect the gorge from counter-attack).
But on the whole you're judging NS on some of the newest changes which haven't had a chance to be addressed yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's a problem also when the marines are attacking. The usual strategy is to place an armory and phase gate, park the arcs and shoot the hive from a comfortable distance while spamming grenades. Nothing can get near without being blown to bits except, again, onos. It by some miracle you get near and do some damage, it's actually inconsequential since everything gets repaired and marines arive in seconds with their 10 pres jetpacks. Endgame with the aliens feels a game of waiting for 75 res, then it's playing peekaboo with the marines until a well intentioned gorge blocks you, then it's waiting again.
Although economy has turned the game for Kharaa into a weird "kill marine rt's 1/1min or a threshold is passed and you can no longer kill rt's faster than they are built" -game.
Yep, I agree. I just don't think the problem has anything to do with the Onos per se. It's an upstream problem. Namely the late game stalemate where marines are bottled up in their base with nowhere else to go. The mechanics of the game dictate that the marines are at their strongest when they're all grouped together with their guns pointed at the two or so entrances to their base; close to the armoury for resupply; not far from their spawn point with the commander having nowhere else to oversee. It's also their most desperate moment because there's nowhere else to go, so they defend it hard.
The problem has been around for so long and yet I don't know what has been done to even try and address it. Maybe removing the res point in tech locations would do it - force an economic collapse. Having one extractor there does seem to prolong it. In any case, I'm really glad Onos can't single-handedly just wade in and end it. That would be even more dull.
<!--quoteo(post=1946373:date=Jun 25 2012, 08:39 AM:name=Rowen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rowen @ Jun 25 2012, 08:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1946373"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's a problem also when the marines are attacking. The usual strategy is to place an armory and phase gate, park the arcs and shoot the hive from a comfortable distance while spamming grenades. Nothing can get near without being blown to bits except, again, onos. It by some miracle you get near and do some damage, it's actually inconsequential since everything gets repaired and marines arive in seconds with their 10 pres jetpacks. Endgame with the aliens feels a game of waiting for 75 res, then it's playing peekaboo with the marines until a well intentioned gorge blocks you, then it's waiting again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eh, I'm not sure there's a problem there. A concentrated assault by marines ends the game with a relative degree of certainty. If the aliens are down to 1 hive and the marines have the rest of the map, what do you want to happen? At what point during the game does it become inevitable and then how long do you want to keep playing until it's resolved? Now, if you each have half the map and your talking about the marines sieging there, well then the aliens have options. If the aliens can't repel the siege, they should counter-attack a marine tech point. Then it's up to the marines to decide: trade a hive for a base or becon and repel the alien attack.
Every point you raise boosts aliens or weakens marines. Two things I actually agree with are that ARCs and JP are overpowered.
I got to here before I realised you were trolling...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Everything i wanted to say.
The problem has been around for so long and yet I don't know what has been done to even try and address it. Maybe removing the res point in tech locations would do it - force an economic collapse. Having one extractor there does seem to prolong it. In any case, I'm really glad Onos can't single-handedly just wade in and end it. That would be even more dull.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is difficult due to the Aliens needing to spend Res on cysts and waiting for the harvester to build on its own (Or get a Gorge to slowly build it slower than a nano'd marine;) even with the use of energy the aliens would be put at a slight disadvantage early-on and would need balancing towards that.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Eh, I'm not sure there's a problem there. A concentrated assault by marines ends the game with a relative degree of certainty. If the aliens are down to 1 hive and the marines have the rest of the map, what do you want to happen? At what point during the game does it become inevitable and then how long do you want to keep playing until it's resolved? Now, if you each have half the map and your talking about the marines sieging there, well then the aliens have options. If the aliens can't repel the siege, they should counter-attack a marine tech point. Then it's up to the marines to decide: trade a hive for a base or becon and repel the alien attack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem here is that it could be 50/50 map control; or even 65/45, etc (Alien/Marines) and the Marines can pump out ARCs and Sentries, as well as marines mustering up enough Res to survive and attack from afar with JPs and usually Wps 2/3. This isn't the case of, 'Aliens are getting horribly destroyed' but both teams stalemating or marines being pushed back to where they're concentrating on defending the few points they have left. Docking is sadly the best-case when aliens could have Generator and Locker Rooms with the marines setup in Terminal and Cafeteria where the marines can basically take both hives out by Arcing Locker and JP-barraging Generator (Though this is mainly the fault of map-design.)
Late-games can be annoying to beat marines with compared to the jet packers that can fly over Alien-defenses and directly to their base with ranged weaponry. Usually this ends up with the Gorge/Onos/Fade barrage into the marines base to kill the power and Vortex 'OP' marines into raging over how it's a useless ability.
Makes sense. Any other ideas?
<!--quoteo(post=1946389:date=Jun 25 2012, 12:03 PM:name=Banzai¥)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Banzai¥ @ Jun 25 2012, 12:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1946389"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The problem here is that it could be 50/50 map control; or even 65/45, etc (Alien/Marines) and the Marines can pump out ARCs and Sentries, as well as marines mustering up enough Res to survive and attack from afar with JPs and usually Wps 2/3. This isn't the case of, 'Aliens are getting horribly destroyed' but both teams stalemating or marines being pushed back to where they're concentrating on defending the few points they have left. Docking is sadly the best-case when aliens could have Generator and Locker Rooms with the marines setup in Terminal and Cafeteria where the marines can basically take both hives out by Arcing Locker and JP-barraging Generator (Though this is mainly the fault of map-design.)
Late-games can be annoying to beat marines with compared to the jet packers that can fly over Alien-defenses and directly to their base with ranged weaponry. Usually this ends up with the Gorge/Onos/Fade barrage into the marines base to kill the power and Vortex 'OP' marines into raging over how it's a useless ability.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry can you be more clear? What is the actual problem? Are you saying that stalemates can happen where the map is evenly divided? I haven't seen that.
They are making changes to docking to keep hives safer from ARCs.
They are making changes to docking to keep hives safer from ARCs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Problem is that the Marines suddenly become heavily OP late-game with aliens having less of a chance attacking or even defending. You get some stalemates occasionally but even when marines are forced to defend their main-base they can slowly push out if the aliens aren't focusing an entire simulated base around their point to keep them from volleying out (Which like I said is even difficult when jet packers can evade most of the Khamms defenses.) I also heard that Docking isn't being moved around much but the ARCs are getting a range reduction.
Now I'm not saying the Marines need to be heavily nerfed but at the current-state aliens need to be able to counter Marines late-game tech (Not to mention the Exo isn't out yet.)
Now I'm not saying the Marines need to be heavily nerfed but at the current-state aliens need to be able to counter Marines late-game tech (Not to mention the Exo isn't out yet.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah. If JP and ARCs are addressed I think this issue will evaporate. But there's also a factor where I don't think alien team strategies have adapted to new mid-game stuff yet, at least in pub games. It feels a bit like "hey we're doing what we've always done, why aren't we winning?". And then the aliens don't work together until they see that their individual efforts aren't working, by which time the marines are entrenched. So I'm less worried that there's a balance problem for the part of the game where each side controls a decent chunk of the map. Conversely, aliens have to work very hard indeed just to keep the marines locked in their base, let alone finish the game.
2. I think I prefer your idea of corroding armour instead of health. Medspam is too easy for damaging health to be useful.
3. Removing blink delay is problematic since marines will start dying without ever seeing a fade.
4. I like the Gorge currently. He just needs webs or some second unlockable.
5. Yes being stuck is so annoying considering the investment.
6. I love playing alien comm, so I don't know what you are talking about. Its only now starting to become more involving. I do find marine comm too stressful.
7. Consdering how much more aliens have to structure spam, I would almost say that aliens should get all ups for cheaper than marines.
8. Problem is that whips need direct LOS to shoot the arcs with bombard. ARCS 90% of the time just kill the whips and hive from behind a wall.
9. Yes JP needs a counter.
10. I like the idea of marines needing to setup ARCs. ARCs do need some work though.
11. Or aliens could just start healing the harvesters with a gorge to speed up the process? It would be nice if aliens could mist their structures though to build faster.
12. This is a problem endgame for both sides. Aliens spam whips, crags and shades. Marines spam turrets and arcs. Only difference is that alien structures are ultimately useless against ARCS.
13. I agree that the early game needs to be extended. I love playing skulk vs LMG.
14. Hm there is some truth to this. I've seen so many games with terrible marine players who hold out until arcs arrive. Marines can kill harvesters and nano-construct their own, giving them a good income while constantly debilitating the aliens.
15. I disagree, simply because it feels weird to not be able to sprint.
16. What?
I cant really look at the other things in 210 as long as the 1/5 income ruins the whole thing anyway. Like the lerk bite, MAYBE its to weak now but maybe not....i think its worst problem right now is the medspam/nano spam which is again due to the extremly high res income.
Also JP seem OP but i THINK (dont nail me on it...) its due to the fact that Jetpacks are almost a default equipment after the 5 minute mark.
So i have come to the conclusion that The Devs are Blind as bat, and if nothing is solved soon, my money back, i shall be wanting.
we've given them the benifit of the doubt but, when its quite obvious something new is a problem, they still havent been fixing it (in some cases just expanding the problem, or "Dumbing it down", hydras anyone?)
Rifle vs. skulk
Shotgun as marine
Lerk spikes
Evolving in the ceiling and bile-bombing a base
Relocations
Acrobatic fights, like jumping from something a killing a skulk at the same time
Mines
<b>Not super fun</b>
Fade (movement a bit limited)
Onos
GL
Flamethrower
Lerk bite
Gorge
<b>Annoying</b>
Turrets :(
Too many static targets as marine (cysts, hydras, whips, rts, ...)
Personally I find Ns2 quite 'messy' in caparison.
It just feels like it is missing an 'X' factor that will turn a great game into and outstanding game... but I can't for the life of me put my finger on what that is.
It does feel like it's not as "epic" as NS1 in some ways, maybe everything is too cluttered? Too many "stuff" make those "stuff" not as much of an amazing sight/experience. And when there's too many of everything, the "everything" can't be as strong.. further adding to the "non-epicness".
Slowing down everything could have undesired effects though.. Not sure exactly what is cause this feeling, and how to fix it:/
I'll have to think about it some time I believe.