I think it's a really good upgrade, and it might allow a skulk or gorge to save their life. But I doubt anyone chasing an onos or fade wouldn't start to do a double tap, justto be sure. It has saved my gorge a few times, but if my onos dies with it, there is always soo much shooting, that they get me anyway.
Secondly, most of the time, the marines want to take out the opponent to prevent them from killing them or structures. Even with Feign Death, the players are still taken out of action. While not as long as if they had to respawn and run back, they are still out of action for a short time, allowing the marines to take the area/survive or whatever the marine wanted.
Can you please specify what it is, that makes it OP or annoying. A one-liner isn't helpful at all. I haven't seen it much in the few games I had and only used it once, but died a second time right after it kicked in. So out of pure curiosity: What is wrong with it?
I'm not sold on it being OP, I think when the novelty wears off and people learn to become accustomed to it it will be fine. It takes the place of one of the other upgrades as well and gives you no combat advantage aside from the little gimmick when you "die"- Taking Feint when on 2-3 hive is a big sacrifice because you will not have regen and/or adrenaline/celerity. When rines' learn to listen for the sounds of a Feintlien after it's "death" and look for the score not popping up the upgrade is not going to be by any means a reliable way to survive. Granted the score thing isn't totally reliable in groups but if they ever refine the system to have assists and whatnot it would work well.
<b>Balance -</b> I dno. i see it more as a free instant combat cloak with invulnerability really. Its a free bite one way or another and really screws with shotgunners due to slow rof. Slow marine movement doesn't help here.
<b>Level of annoyance - </b> When i kill something i expect it to die or no longer be a threat. Redemption was ok in this regard.
I was really only asking the opinions of everyone else and not looking to do a big writeup myself hence my purposeful lack of specificity. I don't have the whole picture nor alot of experience with the upgrade other than a first impression of it being annoying with the <b>possibility</b> of being OP.
I've had my worries about it as well. From a conceptual standpoint it seems as if it can only be balanced to either be annoying or useless, but I've not yet had much first hand experience in games with or against the upgrade.
Than give it some time. I think no one can say so shortly after the patch, that it will be OP or not. Also the annoyance may be a personal thing. You just need to adapt to the possibility that the alien is not dead. The same way you adapted to the concept, that a single marine will most likely lose against a fade. (Imba-Lifeforms are usually not a working concept in most games. And just yesterday a noob raged about that on a server I was on.) I like the variation of game-play it can add. Redemption was way more annoying, when loading magazine after magazine into that onos and he just *plobs* back to the hive for healing. Feign Death is better, because I have the chance to actually kill the alien now.
<!--quoteo(post=1951236:date=Jul 13 2012, 04:33 AM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Jul 13 2012, 04:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1951236"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dno. i see it more as a free instant combat cloak with invulnerability really. Its a free bite one way or another and really screws with shotgunners due to slow rof. Slow marine movement doesn't help here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When "fiented" aliens cannot use any abilities (including bellyslide+shadowstep) and you get snared by like 50% as well. Seen plenty of skulks going for the "free bite" thing but if you just sprint away immediately it's pretty much a death sentence for them because they are so slow, when they come out of it you'll be standing several feet away and they will be sitting ducks with 5hp.
Pay ###### attention to your HUD-Minimap. U can see where the alien is "sliding" while faking death and shoot it when the effect is over. Its so damn easy to first: noticing its faking death and second: killing it afterwards.
I agree with rant about it not being necessarily OP, but feel it doesnt fit well with the game... Just seems like someone saw the dead ringer in TF2 and brought it into NS2. (For the record, I feel the same way about clog)
I also feel it can be very frustrating as a marine, which is something that should be avoided... e.g. say a marine is attacked by 2 skulks. He kills skulk A , turns around and kills skulk B. Now he is rewarded for his 2v1 by having Skulk A suddenly reappear (right when he is reloading) to kill him. Might be "fun" for the alien, but frustrating as marine.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2012
I like Feign, quite a lot. :P <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=116059" target="_blank">ideas ideas...</a>
Feign is the best direct combat upgrade from Shade tech, unlike Silence and Camouflage. Also, it is an upgrade which allows aliens to "tank" for a bit longer, improving alien lifespan significantly (which used to be dominated by Carapace).
Feign may be powerful, however, here are plenty of ways for a player to counter it, such as keeping a safe distance from "corpses", and staying vigilant for 3 additional seconds.
Play with Feign for a few weeks and see how it goes. :)
<!--quoteo(post=1951266:date=Jul 13 2012, 03:03 PM:name=Kasperle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kasperle @ Jul 13 2012, 03:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1951266"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Pay ###### attention to your HUD-Minimap. U can see where the alien is "sliding" while faking death and shoot it when the effect is over. Its so damn easy to first: noticing its faking death and second: killing it afterwards.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While it certainly is very obvious when theyre faking the death, its just a delay for killing them making it very annoying. And then theres the cases where you manage to kill that lerk/fade right before they make it around that corner, only this time they get new free lifeform behind the cover. Or that base biling gorge you chase down and kill in the endless field of cloaked whips, only to see it respawn for no loss or any delay while you sacrifice yourself to "kill" it. It just takes out any rewarding feel you get when killing the lifeforms when you have to kill that same one multiple times for it to actually finally die.
AngeluszHarmonic entropistJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18072Members, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
<!--quoteo(post=1951271:date=Jul 13 2012, 02:17 PM:name=Nakorson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nakorson @ Jul 13 2012, 02:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1951271"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I haven't used it with a fade. But wouldn't it be easy to escape as a fade after you have been revived? Blink out?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can definitely imagine the fade being one of the better suited lifeforms to use this upgrade with, yes. That's actually something I like. It's viable for all lifeforms to some extent, but depending on your role, playstyle etc. you can choose a good 'build'.
<!--quoteo(post=1951274:date=Jul 13 2012, 03:23 PM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Jul 13 2012, 03:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1951274"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How does feign works exactly, is it automatically triggered when you reach a health threshold ? does it work all the time?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When you die, you respawn with x amount of health. It works every single time when you have the upgrade selected, but only once i guess. You can de+re-evolve it though so...
AngeluszHarmonic entropistJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18072Members, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
<!--quoteo(post=1951275:date=Jul 13 2012, 02:27 PM:name=elmo9000)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elmo9000 @ Jul 13 2012, 02:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1951275"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When you die, you respawn with x amount of health. It works every single time when you have the upgrade selected, but only once i guess. You can de+re-evolve it though so...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> To be precise it actually prevents you from taking lethal damage. When you do, you keep 10% of your health and 'phase out'. Your actual character becomes invisible, while your ragdoll looks dead. After a few seconds you regain full control of your body.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1951275:date=Jul 13 2012, 04:27 AM:name=elmo9000)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elmo9000 @ Jul 13 2012, 04:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1951275"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When you die, you respawn with x amount of health. It works every single time when you have the upgrade selected, but only once i guess. You can de+re-evolve it though so...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Feign triggers when the alien falls below 10% of maximum total health (HP + armour), and prevents death from fatal damage.
You do not have to re-evolve Feign after every time triggers. Feign "recharges" once the alien is fully healed (HP and armour). It also has a 10 second cooldown.
<!--quoteo(post=1951279:date=Jul 13 2012, 03:34 PM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Jul 13 2012, 03:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1951279"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Feign triggers when the alien falls below 10% of maximum total health (HP + armour), and prevents death from fatal damage.
You do not have to re-evolve Feign after every time triggers. Feign "recharges" once the alien is fully healed (HP and armour). It also has a 10 second cooldown.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That doesn't sounds very interesting and a bit complicated.
What about letting the player play the death animation himself? So that you need to "act" a minimum to simulate a real death. Then remove cloak and all that jazz and delay the disappearance of real dead bodies, so it's not so clear which ones are really dead or pretending to be.
I guess it would be hard to use efficiently, but having a skulk doing a badly feint death sounds much more fun to me.
Redemption was a bit silly as well, I don't know if anybody has a better idea, something simple and elegant.
I think it's actually quite well-implemented - once you have it happen once, you figure it out and understand it for future uses. The text on the screen "feigning death" helps alot.
I think khammanders new to the abilities really need the explanatory tool-tips though, for feign and adrenaline, so they can explain to players what they do.
Fade + blink + feign death = immortal. It HAS to be changed.
For the people saying "oh just shoot them again", let me remind you that they are now <b>invisible</b> and <b>invincible</b> while they escape. For a fade, this means you make it 10+ feet away toward a door/corner and blink back to safety. Even a skulk can leap out 95% of the time, but generally if I die with it, I just crawl up to their leg and spam bite. Then you come out of invis/invinc and bite finish them off. It's stupid and broken.
Now, the ability to shoot the dead body that magically spawns when they feign to finish them off would bring this ability back into the realm of the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1951291:date=Jul 13 2012, 03:18 PM:name=Shaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shaker @ Jul 13 2012, 03:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1951291"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fade + blink + feign death = immortal. It HAS to be changed.
For the people saying "oh just shoot them again", let me remind you that they are now <b>invisible</b> and <b>invincible</b> while they escape. For a fade, this means you make it 10+ feet away toward a door/corner and blink back to safety. Even a skulk can leap out 95% of the time, but generally if I die with it, I just crawl up to their leg and spam bite. Then you come out of invis/invinc and bite finish them off. It's stupid and broken.
Now, the ability to shoot the dead body that magically spawns when they feign to finish them off would bring this ability back into the realm of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why do you argue without even trying it? The fade gets so slow for the 3 seconds he is "dead" that he even moves 1 meter from its dead body. Even a skulk cant move much. And you get full damage while blinking so who is the problem killing a fade with 10% left? You really should actually play the build before going havoc on a topic.
<!--quoteo(post=1951292:date=Jul 13 2012, 05:21 AM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Jul 13 2012, 05:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1951292"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why do you argue without even trying it? The fade gets so slow for the 3 seconds he is "dead" that he even moves 1 meter from its dead body. Even a skulk cant move much. And you get full damage while blinking so who is the problem killing a fade with 10% left? You really should actually play the build before going havoc on a topic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Maybe I missed it, but where did he say he hasn't played the build? I was playing with him last night....
I'm not a good fade. Only time I have died with it in 214 is when I got stuck on geometry when feigning.
<!--quoteo(post=1951270:date=Jul 13 2012, 08:14 AM:name=elmo9000)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elmo9000 @ Jul 13 2012, 08:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1951270"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->While it certainly is very obvious when theyre faking the death, its just a delay for killing them making it very annoying. And then theres the cases where you manage to kill that lerk/fade right before they make it around that corner, only this time they get new free lifeform behind the cover. Or that base biling gorge you chase down and kill in the endless field of cloaked whips, only to see it respawn for no loss or any delay while you sacrifice yourself to "kill" it. It just takes out any rewarding feel you get when killing the lifeforms when you have to kill that same one multiple times for it to actually finally die.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1951266:date=Jul 13 2012, 07:03 AM:name=Kasperle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kasperle @ Jul 13 2012, 07:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1951266"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Pay ###### attention to your HUD-Minimap. U can see where the alien is "sliding" while faking death and shoot it when the effect is over. Its so damn easy to first: noticing its faking death and second: killing it afterwards.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
The Feign death might be better suited for the Fade but using as a Gorge has been a guarentee second death. Once you die the first time, you move so slow especially as a gorge that you can't get more than a foot away before you re-appear. Which of course you're already low on health so one more shot and your dead for real this time. Kind of annoying actually and will never use it again w/ Gorge and probably not skulk either.
I also have to point out on what Kasperle said about the minimap showing your location while in Feign death. I haven't actually seen it playing as a marine yet but as aliens I know it must be true. I had a couple marines kill me and while I was faking death, they literally followed me as if they could see me clear as day and shot me the instant I re-appeared. I feel this is kind of an exploit.
<!--quoteo(post=1951292:date=Jul 13 2012, 09:21 AM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Jul 13 2012, 09:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1951292"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why do you argue without even trying it? The fade gets so slow for the 3 seconds he is "dead" that he even moves 1 meter from its dead body. Even a skulk cant move much. And you get full damage while blinking so who is the problem killing a fade with 10% left? You really should actually play the build before going havoc on a topic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ive played it for several hours the past 2 nights. I have died once as a fade. I realize that this is all anecdotal as can be, but it was a consistent theme over both nights of playing. Marines only won by stacking a team/outnumbering and dominating the map within the first 5 minutes. If that didn't happen it was always a guaranteed alien win.
I agree with howie here that is isn't that great as a gorge (I said this in the other thread) because you are so slow and have no real fast escape. But classes with leap/blink can easily escape every single time - Or just walk TOWARD you and finish you off when they pop out. I mean really, where is this dead body materializing from? Why are they invisible AND invincible? Its just silly as ######.
Comments
I dont like players getting rewarded with a new free lifeform upon death.
I dont like players getting rewarded with a new free lifeform upon death.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you see the movie "Zombieland"? Double Tap!
But i also think it is really powerful. Became my new favorite first hive upgrade.
Secondly, most of the time, the marines want to take out the opponent to prevent them from killing them or structures. Even with Feign Death, the players are still taken out of action. While not as long as if they had to respawn and run back, they are still out of action for a short time, allowing the marines to take the area/survive or whatever the marine wanted.
Can you please specify what it is, that makes it OP or annoying. A one-liner isn't helpful at all. I haven't seen it much in the few games I had and only used it once, but died a second time right after it kicked in. So out of pure curiosity: What is wrong with it?
I dno. i see it more as a free instant combat cloak with invulnerability really. Its a free bite one way or another and really screws with shotgunners due to slow rof. Slow marine movement doesn't help here.
<b>Level of annoyance - </b>
When i kill something i expect it to die or no longer be a threat. Redemption was ok in this regard.
I was really only asking the opinions of everyone else and not looking to do a big writeup myself hence my purposeful lack of specificity. I don't have the whole picture nor alot of experience with the upgrade other than a first impression of it being annoying with the <b>possibility</b> of being OP.
Enjoyed reading your post as usual rant.
Also the annoyance may be a personal thing. You just need to adapt to the possibility that the alien is not dead. The same way you adapted to the concept, that a single marine will most likely lose against a fade. (Imba-Lifeforms are usually not a working concept in most games. And just yesterday a noob raged about that on a server I was on.) I like the variation of game-play it can add.
Redemption was way more annoying, when loading magazine after magazine into that onos and he just *plobs* back to the hive for healing. Feign Death is better, because I have the chance to actually kill the alien now.
When "fiented" aliens cannot use any abilities (including bellyslide+shadowstep) and you get snared by like 50% as well. Seen plenty of skulks going for the "free bite" thing but if you just sprint away immediately it's pretty much a death sentence for them because they are so slow, when they come out of it you'll be standing several feet away and they will be sitting ducks with 5hp.
I also feel it can be very frustrating as a marine, which is something that should be avoided... e.g. say a marine is attacked by 2 skulks. He kills skulk A , turns around and kills skulk B. Now he is rewarded for his 2v1 by having Skulk A suddenly reappear (right when he is reloading) to kill him. Might be "fun" for the alien, but frustrating as marine.
Feign is the best direct combat upgrade from Shade tech, unlike Silence and Camouflage. Also, it is an upgrade which allows aliens to "tank" for a bit longer, improving alien lifespan significantly (which used to be dominated by Carapace).
Feign may be powerful, however, here are plenty of ways for a player to counter it, such as keeping a safe distance from "corpses", and staying vigilant for 3 additional seconds.
Play with Feign for a few weeks and see how it goes. :)
While it certainly is very obvious when theyre faking the death, its just a delay for killing them making it very annoying. And then theres the cases where you manage to kill that lerk/fade right before they make it around that corner, only this time they get new free lifeform behind the cover. Or that base biling gorge you chase down and kill in the endless field of cloaked whips, only to see it respawn for no loss or any delay while you sacrifice yourself to "kill" it. It just takes out any rewarding feel you get when killing the lifeforms when you have to kill that same one multiple times for it to actually finally die.
I can definitely imagine the fade being one of the better suited lifeforms to use this upgrade with, yes. That's actually something I like. It's viable for all lifeforms to some extent, but depending on your role, playstyle etc. you can choose a good 'build'.
When you die, you respawn with x amount of health. It works every single time when you have the upgrade selected, but only once i guess. You can de+re-evolve it though so...
To be precise it actually prevents you from taking lethal damage. When you do, you keep 10% of your health and 'phase out'. Your actual character becomes invisible, while your ragdoll looks dead. After a few seconds you regain full control of your body.
Feign triggers when the alien falls below 10% of maximum total health (HP + armour), and prevents death from fatal damage.
You do not have to re-evolve Feign after every time triggers. Feign "recharges" once the alien is fully healed (HP and armour). It also has a 10 second cooldown.
You do not have to re-evolve Feign after every time triggers. Feign "recharges" once the alien is fully healed (HP and armour). It also has a 10 second cooldown.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok so its even more ridiculous than i thought.
What about letting the player play the death animation himself? So that you need to "act" a minimum to simulate a real death. Then remove cloak and all that jazz and delay the disappearance of real dead bodies, so it's not so clear which ones are really dead or pretending to be.
I guess it would be hard to use efficiently, but having a skulk doing a badly feint death sounds much more fun to me.
Redemption was a bit silly as well, I don't know if anybody has a better idea, something simple and elegant.
I think khammanders new to the abilities really need the explanatory tool-tips though, for feign and adrenaline, so they can explain to players what they do.
For the people saying "oh just shoot them again", let me remind you that they are now <b>invisible</b> and <b>invincible</b> while they escape. For a fade, this means you make it 10+ feet away toward a door/corner and blink back to safety. Even a skulk can leap out 95% of the time, but generally if I die with it, I just crawl up to their leg and spam bite. Then you come out of invis/invinc and bite finish them off. It's stupid and broken.
Now, the ability to shoot the dead body that magically spawns when they feign to finish them off would bring this ability back into the realm of the game.
For the people saying "oh just shoot them again", let me remind you that they are now <b>invisible</b> and <b>invincible</b> while they escape. For a fade, this means you make it 10+ feet away toward a door/corner and blink back to safety. Even a skulk can leap out 95% of the time, but generally if I die with it, I just crawl up to their leg and spam bite. Then you come out of invis/invinc and bite finish them off. It's stupid and broken.
Now, the ability to shoot the dead body that magically spawns when they feign to finish them off would bring this ability back into the realm of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why do you argue without even trying it? The fade gets so slow for the 3 seconds he is "dead" that he even moves 1 meter from its dead body. Even a skulk cant move much. And you get full damage while blinking so who is the problem killing a fade with 10% left? You really should actually play the build before going havoc on a topic.
Also, remember mines, grenades, flamethrowers, sentries... they all make it exceedingly difficult to escape after a feigned death.
Maybe I missed it, but where did he say he hasn't played the build? I was playing with him last night....
I'm not a good fade. Only time I have died with it in 214 is when I got stuck on geometry when feigning.
Annoying but certainly not overpowered.
+1
The Feign death might be better suited for the Fade but using as a Gorge has been a guarentee second death. Once you die the first time, you move so slow especially as a gorge that you can't get more than a foot away before you re-appear. Which of course you're already low on health so one more shot and your dead for real this time. Kind of annoying actually and will never use it again w/ Gorge and probably not skulk either.
I also have to point out on what Kasperle said about the minimap showing your location while in Feign death. I haven't actually seen it playing as a marine yet but as aliens I know it must be true. I had a couple marines kill me and while I was faking death, they literally followed me as if they could see me clear as day and shot me the instant I re-appeared.
I feel this is kind of an exploit.
Ive played it for several hours the past 2 nights. I have died once as a fade. I realize that this is all anecdotal as can be, but it was a consistent theme over both nights of playing. Marines only won by stacking a team/outnumbering and dominating the map within the first 5 minutes. If that didn't happen it was always a guaranteed alien win.
I agree with howie here that is isn't that great as a gorge (I said this in the other thread) because you are so slow and have no real fast escape. But classes with leap/blink can easily escape every single time - Or just walk TOWARD you and finish you off when they pop out. I mean really, where is this dead body materializing from? Why are they invisible AND invincible? Its just silly as ######.