<!--quoteo(post=1952321:date=Jul 18 2012, 09:42 AM:name=Shaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shaker @ Jul 18 2012, 09:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1952321"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This blows my mind... A fade (especially with regen) can spam click shift and, if they have it, hold down blink - regen starts ticking while still feigned and then you are flying out of the room at 200 miles per hour. A gorge is by far the easiest thing to kill feigned as their escape is relatively slow and clumsy.
I really like the idea of lowering the invis time to counter the regen ticking - but then again, I like the idea of removing the upgrade completely =p<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Guess I just haven't noticed it. That does sound really broken though.
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
All kinds of hives should be viable first choice hives. That means that all kinds of hives need to have an upgrade that are as good as carapace. If FD is overpowered, we should see a lot of sensory-first runs with FD as the first upgrade, rather than the crag-hive/carapace standard. From what I can see, that isn't happening, which to me means that Carapace must be more OP than FD.
FD is going to be slightly useful, but its hard to see it beat a Carap/Regen, or Regen/Silence, or Carap/Celerity, or Camo/Silence combo.
<!--quoteo(post=1952372:date=Jul 18 2012, 01:34 PM:name=matso)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (matso @ Jul 18 2012, 01:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1952372"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If FD is overpowered, we should see a lot of sensory-first runs with FD as the first upgrade, rather than the crag-hive/carapace standard. From what I can see, that isn't happening, which to me means that Carapace must be more OP than FD.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your conclusion that FD is OP does not logically follow from the premise that whichever upgrade gets picked more as first hive/upgrade must be the overpowered upgrade. There could be a myriad of reasons at work other than power-level that determine why one upgrade is selected over another. Noob commanders, personal preference, familiarity, etc. could explain why crag hives get picked more than shift hives.
With that being said, I don't see a problem with FD at the pub level (I can't speak to organized play). The scientist in me had to object to the faulty reasoning though.
<!--quoteo(post=1952372:date=Jul 18 2012, 08:34 PM:name=matso)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (matso @ Jul 18 2012, 08:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1952372"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All kinds of hives should be viable first choice hives. That means that all kinds of hives need to have an upgrade that are as good as carapace. If FD is overpowered, we should see a lot of sensory-first runs with FD as the first upgrade, rather than the crag-hive/carapace standard. From what I can see, that isn't happening, which to me means that Carapace must be more OP than FD.
FD is going to be slightly useful, but its hard to see it beat a Carap/Regen, or Regen/Silence, or Carap/Celerity, or Camo/Silence combo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Feign death has been in the game for barely 7 days, it takes time until players adopt new build-orders and strategies, especially with NS2's tiny player base. 2. Whether other upgrades are (more) OP is irrelevant, none should be. 3. Whether FD makes Shade Hives a viable first choice is again irrelevant for the balance of FD, because the OP aspect might only show up in the mid/late game (e.g. on higher lifeforms). 4. OP or not, the mechanic behind FD is very questionable, for reasons mentioned in this thread.
<!--quoteo(post=1951279:date=Jul 13 2012, 05:34 AM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Jul 13 2012, 05:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1951279"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You do not have to re-evolve Feign after every time triggers. Feign "recharges" once the alien is fully healed (HP and armour). It also has a 10 second cooldown.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aah, I did not know this.
I really hope it stays. It's a pretty good upgrade. It changes the way I would play a class (Which is a good thing. It's good to have some variety). I would say it's on the same level as the other upgrades.
Feint doesnt bother me when it's on skulks because you actually have a chance at killing them... but against fades and lerks they get away nearly every time. It's super frustrating and the chance that it will happen on death is absurdly high I believe. You died... you deserved to die...
<!--quoteo(post=1952451:date=Jul 18 2012, 09:04 PM:name=MisterNubs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MisterNubs @ Jul 18 2012, 09:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1952451"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And feint is even less of a combat changer than <b>nanoshield + medpack spam.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know why this hasn't been changed yet. There needs to be diminishing returns on nanoshield + medpack spam. It gets really ridiculous.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited July 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1952406:date=Jul 18 2012, 03:19 PM:name=Locklear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Locklear @ Jul 18 2012, 03:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1952406"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm holding you to that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can. If you were able to see progress tracker you'd see:
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->(Finished) [ 3031 ] - Healing near hive/crag while feigning death impacts hive rushes by ironhorse<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
You cannot heal while in feign, as it defeats it's purpose: coming to life again as a <b>weak </b>lifeform. Its not nerfing, in this case it is bug fixing.
Regarding nanospam + medspam.. its been raised many times. Ideas bounced around. Long subject open to many opinions. But the issue is known at least? IF you guys compile a list of ideas of how to fix it besides simply removing it,<i> in another thread</i>, that'd be powerfully helpful and i can bring it to their attention for consideration?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Regarding nanospam + medspam.. its been raised many times. Ideas bounced around. Long subject open to many opinions. But the issue is known at least? IF you guys compile a list of ideas of how to fix it besides simply removing it, in another thread, that'd be powerfully helpful and i can bring it to their attention for consideration?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- Make it work only on structures. Implemented and tested in many games, it works well. - Give it some hp, so it can only take 1 or 2 bites. - More complicated things about making it covering only part of the body so it need some skill to use.
<!--quoteo(post=1952513:date=Jul 19 2012, 08:57 AM:name=MisterNubs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MisterNubs @ Jul 19 2012, 08:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1952513"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"- Give it some hp, so it can only take 1 or 2 bites."
And turn medpacks into a heal over time so it's less effective during combat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a good idea. But hopefully the marines are in a stronger state if something like that is implemented.
I dont really like Feign. Not becuase it anoyys becuse I would of liked to of killed the life form that used it, I tend to be aliens more often then not anyway, But I just dont have any use for it. Id rather use other upgrades which to me are more practical. If they took it out next build I wouldn't be bothered in the slightest by its removel
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1952375:date=Jul 18 2012, 08:52 PM:name=Deity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deity @ Jul 18 2012, 08:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1952375"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your conclusion that FD is OP does not logically follow from the premise that whichever upgrade gets picked more as first hive/upgrade must be the overpowered upgrade. There could be a myriad of reasons at work other than power-level that determine why one upgrade is selected over another. Noob commanders, personal preference, familiarity, etc. could explain why crag hives get picked more than shift hives.
With that being said, I don't see a problem with FD at the pub level (I can't speak to organized play). The scientist in me had to object to the faulty reasoning though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm ... I've always found gamers to be very good at picking up OP winning strategies. I thought that it was a widely accepted axiom that didn't need to be stated.
I stopped reading after about page two, so not sure how many people have spoken up about this, but fade + feint + blink does in fact equal near invincibility. I've died once as a fade this patch with feint, and I'm a terrible fade.
I was effectively able to lock down half a marine team by myself on docking moving in and out of their main base, getting 2-3 kills, harassing structures, and getting away every time. The few times I got overzealous, feint saved me and I easily blinked away to safety.
Downtime between strikes is under 10 seconds. Marines just cannot recover from that type of harassment and hold any other area on the map.
Seriously, only one Marine has effectively timed his shot to hit me as I was blinking away, and this appears consistent with other fades as well.
Comments
I really like the idea of lowering the invis time to counter the regen ticking - but then again, I like the idea of removing the upgrade completely =p<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Guess I just haven't noticed it. That does sound really broken though.
youre a beautiful person
that isn't happening, which to me means that Carapace must be more OP than FD.
FD is going to be slightly useful, but its hard to see it beat a Carap/Regen, or Regen/Silence, or Carap/Celerity, or Camo/Silence combo.
that isn't happening, which to me means that Carapace must be more OP than FD.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your conclusion that FD is OP does not logically follow from the premise that whichever upgrade gets picked more as first hive/upgrade must be the overpowered upgrade. There could be a myriad of reasons at work other than power-level that determine why one upgrade is selected over another. Noob commanders, personal preference, familiarity, etc. could explain why crag hives get picked more than shift hives.
With that being said, I don't see a problem with FD at the pub level (I can't speak to organized play). The scientist in me had to object to the faulty reasoning though.
that isn't happening, which to me means that Carapace must be more OP than FD.
FD is going to be slightly useful, but its hard to see it beat a Carap/Regen, or Regen/Silence, or Carap/Celerity, or Camo/Silence combo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Feign death has been in the game for barely 7 days, it takes time until players adopt new build-orders and strategies, especially with NS2's tiny player base.
2. Whether other upgrades are (more) OP is irrelevant, none should be.
3. Whether FD makes Shade Hives a viable first choice is again irrelevant for the balance of FD, because the OP aspect might only show up in the mid/late game (e.g. on higher lifeforms).
4. OP or not, the mechanic behind FD is very questionable, for reasons mentioned in this thread.
Aah, I did not know this.
I really hope it stays. It's a pretty good upgrade. It changes the way I would play a class (Which is a good thing. It's good to have some variety). I would say it's on the same level as the other upgrades.
I'm holding you to that.
I hope it wasn't completely butchered. Was only really useful on the fade and marginally on lerks and skulks, completely worthless on onos and gorges.
But leave it to marine tears to get anything that's useful to aliens nerfed.
It's still possibly to kill a fade as he's leaving feint, only bad players can't seem to figure out how.
And feint is even less of a combat changer than nanoshield + medpack spam.
I don't know why this hasn't been changed yet. There needs to be diminishing returns on nanoshield + medpack spam. It gets really ridiculous.
You can. If you were able to see progress tracker you'd see:
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->(Finished)
[ 3031 ] - Healing near hive/crag while feigning death impacts hive rushes
by ironhorse<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
You cannot heal while in feign, as it defeats it's purpose: coming to life again as a <b>weak </b>lifeform. Its not nerfing, in this case it is bug fixing.
Regarding nanospam + medspam.. its been raised many times. Ideas bounced around. Long subject open to many opinions. But the issue is known at least?
IF you guys compile a list of ideas of how to fix it besides simply removing it,<i> in another thread</i>, that'd be powerfully helpful and i can bring it to their attention for consideration?
IF you guys compile a list of ideas of how to fix it besides simply removing it, in another thread, that'd be powerfully helpful and i can bring it to their attention for consideration?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- Make it work only on structures. Implemented and tested in many games, it works well.
- Give it some hp, so it can only take 1 or 2 bites.
- More complicated things about making it covering only part of the body so it need some skill to use.
And turn medpacks into a heal over time so it's less effective during combat.
+1 to Misternubs
Oh wait.
And turn medpacks into a heal over time so it's less effective during combat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a good idea. But hopefully the marines are in a stronger state if something like that is implemented.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=119488" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=119488</a>
With that being said, I don't see a problem with FD at the pub level (I can't speak to organized play). The scientist in me had to object to the faulty reasoning though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm ... I've always found gamers to be very good at picking up OP winning strategies. I thought that it was a widely accepted axiom that didn't need to be stated.
I was effectively able to lock down half a marine team by myself on docking moving in and out of their main base, getting 2-3 kills, harassing structures, and getting away every time. The few times I got overzealous, feint saved me and I easily blinked away to safety.
Downtime between strikes is under 10 seconds. Marines just cannot recover from that type of harassment and hold any other area on the map.
Seriously, only one Marine has effectively timed his shot to hit me as I was blinking away, and this appears consistent with other fades as well.