NS2 ... blurry

zombiehellmonkey

<div class="IPBDescription">why is the game so blurry?</div>I've been looking at my screenshots of NS2 and comparing them with other games and noticed that NS2 is considerably ... blurry. At first I thought it was just the screenshot, so I went in-game to look around and confirmed that objects begin to look slightly fuzzy at near-medium distance. I don't know whether this will be eventually fixed, but as an experiment, I took a screenshot into photoshop and applied a sharpening filter - Game looks a hundred times better.

<img src="http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/16/2012072000013nofilter.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

<img src="http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/4992/2012072000013sharp.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<hr />
Oh yeah, my graphics card is a HD6970. All game graphic settings are maximum at 1680x1050, graphics card set to use application settings.

WasabiOne

is bloom on?

zombiehellmonkey

<!--quoteo(post=1953344:date=Jul 23 2012, 11:37 PM:name=WasabiOne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WasabiOne @ Jul 23 2012, 11:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1953344"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->is bloom on?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yes, everything is checked.

mushookees

it does look better, im assuming that UWE did this to improve performance temporarily, possibly many builds ago when graphics cards were the problem ??? i say this because i purposely bought a new graphics card for this game, but now graphics are really fast (i could have kept my old card :(

Pyromaniac

that filter does make it look a lot better. All the art assets and aliens being the same color doesn't help either. The game's art it cutting it close to UT3 style crippling artset.

zombiehellmonkey

I messed around with the Bloom setting but it doesn't really have much effect. Here are my screenshots using Mineshaft.


BLOOM ON
<img src="http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/9269/2012072400001bloomon.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

BLOOM OFF
<img src="http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1930/2012072400002bloomoff.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

SHARPENING IN PHOTOSHOP
<img src="http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/476/2012072400003sharpen.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

zombiehellmonkey

With the sharpening applied, the game graphics are comparable to Rage (PC).

elodea

Disable bloom, fog, aa. It looks sharper and more readable that way imo.

Raza.

NS2 uses FXAA which is known to slightly blur everything, but I'm not sure that is the main reason.
I suppose the high blurriness comes from the combination of FXAA + Bloom + Fog + Atmospherics (where existent).

Personally I play with Bloom, Fog and Atmospherics deactivated, because I can't stand the fuzzy look they create.

zombiehellmonkey

With bloom and atmospheric fog disabled, the objects aren't actually sharper (as you can compare with the last pic), the blacks just appear blacker which gives the impression it's sharper. If you look at the blue screen monitor and surrounding pipes in the central foreground, you can see that it is still fuzzy with bloom, fog, aa turned off.

ALL EFFECTS ON
<img src="http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8271/2012072400003allon.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

BLOOM, FOG, AA OFF
<img src="http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/2363/2012072400004bloomfogaa.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

PHOTOSHOP SHARPENING (ALL EFFECTS ON)
<img src="http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/5324/2012072400004sharpen.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

Soylent_green

Sharpening screenshots almost always looks better(try any game). But if you applied a sharpening filter in real time, you'd tend to get texture aliasing/shimmering

zombiehellmonkey

<!--quoteo(post=1953359:date=Jul 24 2012, 01:14 AM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soylent_green @ Jul 24 2012, 01:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1953359"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sharpening screenshots almost always looks better(try any game). But if you applied a sharpening filter in real time, you'd tend to get texture aliasing/shimmering<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Yes I know this, the sharpened image is to show how blurry the original is. If the original screenshot is sharp, then sharpening wouldn't have much effect on the image except blast the pixels. I'm not saying that post-processing should be applied in real-time, but the rendering should be looked into.


<a href="http://media.bestofmicro.com/1/4/278680/original/rage_vehiclecombat.jpg" target="_blank">Screenshot from Rage</a> - Can you tell me that NS2 is sharper than this?

Megahalo

You know it's possible to run a modified DirectX DLL to add post-processing sharpening to the game, right? No need to apply a Photoshop filter, when you can already have it in-game. :P

Not saying this completely fixes the issue, but you can try it out and see what you think.

<a href="http://www.assembla.com/spaces/fxaa-pp-inject/documents" target="_blank">http://www.assembla.com/spaces/fxaa-pp-inject/documents</a>

zombiehellmonkey

FXAA is the problem, not the solution, it's known for causing blurriness/fuzziness.

IronHorse

<!--quoteo(post=1953352:date=Jul 23 2012, 09:03 PM:name=zombiehellmonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zombiehellmonkey @ Jul 23 2012, 09:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1953352"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With the sharpening applied, the game graphics are comparable to Rage (PC).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
YOU TAKE THAT BACK! What an insult!
I still cant play that game because of the HORRID quality of textures! Even with all the config tricks and the "sharpening" filter released by them.. they just used terribly compressed images that wash out, so only the player models look decent. <b>The only time Rage textures look good are from far away.</b>
I mean.. there are like whole forums and threads dedicated to how ugly rage textures are... UWE has amazing attention to detail and i have a hard time finding an ugly texture. (the placeholder skyboxes and infestation might be about it)
I dont always "go fanboy".. <i>but when i do it's about quality of textures!</i>

Relevant image of Rage that sums up my experience, all settings maxed, 1080p:
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/wWrn0.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />


On topic: Yea you bring up a good point. Interesting. Wonder if a sharpening filter could be passed through the rendering..

rantology

There were problems with the RAGE engine/rendering, it was a huge problem for them on release (slow texture loading). Imo that game was gorgeous overall tho (I believe they eventually got it patched and the rendering problems were minimized).

On topic though, it is the Anti Aliasing that makes the game blurry.. Toggle it on/off and check out the difference. It might do it's job of smoothing the pixels out but it makes everything kinda blurry. Idk though, I've seen games do much worse..

Megahalo

These are just two shots I took with the FXAA injector. Not saying that the system is perfect, but just putting some screenshots of real-time sharpening out there.

<a href="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/CZpbZtjHoi4buQSvf4b_Ngxc_tqRbNyM3X9cNgwhoAv_cT5ohY4EPumThcTivp73znky3uhOfgE" target="_blank">1</a>
<a href="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/bv6vCQUcKrCfRmjeZOHN4mgJMAhZHbyg7ixiW5Ojca0ZZqoOg_l2c2Q_GsbBgYmxfyJ5EjjsXcg" target="_blank">2</a>

cake.

Never used bloom, atmospherics, fog. Atmospherics create a fog-like space that actually hurts gameplay. Basically the same thing goes for everything else. Not to mention the fps increase. So for me, there's absolutely no reason to turn on those features.

Yuuki

The game could benefit a lot from a bit of better post-processing, the black is not black, the fog makes dark areas to look bright (mineshaft screenshot), the blur in the bloom filter is not very good quality, and the bloom changes the overall brightness.

All of this in not very important though.

I think it should be very easy to do a post-processing mod, just look how alien vision is activated, and add a shader that is always on.

zombiehellmonkey

I did some experimentation with the settings - Initially, I tried to override the application settings but it causes a rendering problem where everything is pitch black, the next best I could do was set the AA to 'Enhance application setting'. Bumped my HD6970 catalyst settings to max with supersampling. Turned OFF ingame AA, AF, bloom, atmospherics ... well whaddaya know ... game looks very crisp and beautiful ...

Yeah, I know the settings may be over the top, but the framerate loss is not too bad, and besides I won't ever play a game like this, as this is just to demonstrate what NS2 COULD look like with a 'lil tweaking.

<img src="http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/7825/ns2settings2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3487/2012072400013.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/3157/2012072400012.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/4369/2012072400011.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/5084/2012072400010.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

Koruyo

<!--quoteo(post=1953366:date=Jul 24 2012, 07:40 AM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Jul 24 2012, 07:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1953366"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Relevant image of Rage that sums up my experience, all settings maxed, 1080p:
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/wWrn0.jpg" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/wWrn0.jpg</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I can remember that you could change the texture resolution in the config file which incredibly sharpened up the textures... tho you would need like 4gb graphic memory to make it run :P (which i, and i bet 99,99% out there dont have)

Even tho you had areas with such ugly resolutions, you cant really compare it with ns2 - there is no repeating or seamless textures - it looks like the complete world is painted by hand. I found this megatexture technology kinda cool.

Whatever.

Enough offtopic

TimMc

<!--quoteo(post=1953386:date=Jul 24 2012, 04:26 AM:name=zombiehellmonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zombiehellmonkey @ Jul 24 2012, 04:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1953386"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><img src="http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/3157/2012072400012.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That... that actually looks really nice.

Runteh

It is the form of anti-aliasing they are using currently, it doesn't look great imo.

Koruyo

After googling around...

There is
- FXAA
- MLAA (performance/quality hit seems to be not as good especially under dx9)
- <a href="http://www.iryoku.com/smaa/" target="_blank">SMAA </a>(im not sure if this project is still alive, i tried out the smaa 1x injector and it does look similar to the current fxaa in ns2 with less blur, tho injectors suck -wonder how T2x looks)


Wish i had a nvidia kepler gpu... wonder how TXAA looks.

Soylent_green

<!--quoteo(post=1953360:date=Jul 24 2012, 12:23 AM:name=zombiehellmonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zombiehellmonkey @ Jul 24 2012, 12:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1953360"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes I know this, the sharpened image is to show how blurry the original is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I don't think you're achieving your goal. See below.

<!--quoteo(post=1953360:date=Jul 24 2012, 12:23 AM:name=zombiehellmonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zombiehellmonkey @ Jul 24 2012, 12:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1953360"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If the original screenshot is sharp, then sharpening wouldn't have much effect on the image except blast the pixels.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

But that's just not true. Sharpening tends to look better in stills EVEN if the screenshot is already sharp. Sharpening ups the contrast, and makes lines look more defined and concept-arty and specular pops out a little more clearly, which is needed in stills.

There is some blurriness on edges in NS2 because of the way AA is implemented(edge detection AA in post process). Short of super-sampling, it's either this or no AA in a deferred renderer.

On your sharpened shot I see some aliasing on edges(you've undone some of the AA) and I see some hints at moiré patterns on the floor(the floor is too sharp and would shimmer in real time, you're "blasting the pixels" as you say).

<!--quoteo(post=1953360:date=Jul 24 2012, 12:23 AM:name=zombiehellmonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zombiehellmonkey @ Jul 24 2012, 12:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1953360"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://media.bestofmicro.com/1/4/278680/original/rage_vehiclecombat.jpg" target="_blank">Screenshot from Rage</a> - Can you tell me that NS2 is sharper than this?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Can you tell me it's not already sharpened? I see more aliasing in there than I'd except at 6x or 8x AA.

The textures are horribly blurry, but that's just a texture quality issue.

blujay

<!--quoteo(post=1953352:date=Jul 23 2012, 08:03 PM:name=zombiehellmonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zombiehellmonkey @ Jul 23 2012, 08:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1953352"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With the sharpening applied, the game graphics are comparable to Rage (PC).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


That's an opinion.

I think it looks retarded.

It's like the classic "brown = realistic".

I don't think the "sharper" style looks better at all. It ruins the atmosphere.

countbasie

Yeah, FXAA + strong bloom + strong atmospherics is a rather blurry experience. I switched everything off, for performance and better sight (can't see anything through third person flashlights).

blujay

Real life gets pretty blurry sometimes, too.

It's not like the game is being gaussed, christ. You're still going to have no problem picking out a moving skulk.

countbasie

<!--quoteo(post=1953543:date=Jul 25 2012, 01:12 AM:name=blujay)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blujay @ Jul 25 2012, 01:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1953543"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Real life gets pretty blurry sometimes, too.

It's not like the game is being gaussed, christ. You're still going to have no problem picking out a moving skulk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't shoot aliens in reallife. If I had to, I would tell my mates not to light smoke but use normal flashlights, because I couldn't see anything. I know what the atmosphere is aiming for, but you can blur everything over the top.

EDIT: I mean it's cool when you like it. The best way would be to add another form of AA sometime, so you could choose, right?

blujay

That may be an engine limitation. I think you're exaggerating how "blurry" it is.

Run those same screen-caps through Photoshop's Gaussian blur with the default low setting. That's blurry. Saying you "can't see" makes you seem pretty weak, considering you'd have to be, say, not wearing your glasses. It's not nearly as blurry as this thread makes it out to be.

kabab

You cannot compare a still image to moving images it just doesn't work..

A still image can have a lot of sharpness its fine but when things move if things are overly sharp you get a massive amount of noise and lower temporal cohesion.

To see a perfect example of this just look a frame from any film on its own it looks very blurry but in motion it looks great, same thing applies here.