Voogru, I have to admit, that first post of yours in this section cracked me up. Funny stuff man.
Personally, I don't think Natural Selection, post-patch, is balanced. Sure, I'm likely going to get flamed by a bunch of trolls for saying this, but my experience, which is a highly individual thing, backs up my claim.
I have never seen the marines win an even game (same number of players). In fact, in every case, there was usually an advantage of 2 players for the marine side for the majority of the game, especially in the crucial early times.
I've only played perhaps a little over 100 rounds of NS since the patch. Out of all of these, I've won as a marine 3 times, and been defeated as an alien 3 times. The rest were (obviously) either me winning as an alien, or losing as a marine.
This includes times when it seemed like my commanders were making excellent tactical decisions, securing hives, and doing what seemed right. It also, of course, included times when the commanders were not so good, or the marines didn't follow orders as well as they should have. A typical scene is a commander sending 5 soldiers to defend a location, and having all of them die by the jaws of 1 or 2 skulks.
So from this perspective, I'm really happy to see the marines get a very small boost. Sure, I think I can still mop up the marines as an alien on voogru's server, but perhaps it will be a little closer. Certainly as a marine, it's nice to think that you don't have to consistantly sacrifice yourself in spawn gear to get boosted back to full health, when the commander has decided that giving health to marines in normal armor is a waste of resources.
So thanks for the mod voogru, good work, and when I'm feeling like having a higher than my observed ~5% chance of winning as a marine, I'll be certain to head to your server. Those 3 times I've won as a marine were certainly much more rewarding than all the times I've won as an alien.
*Braces for the flood of comments claiming I must suck as a marine, etc*
[Edit: Note that all of this is in regards to NS 1.01 and 1.02. My time in 1.0 is seperate, and had different results. So no posts claiming that you've won as a marine won all the time, please, if you're referring to pre-patch rounds.]
You must suck as a marine <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Nighthawk+Nov 21 2002, 11:06 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nighthawk @ Nov 21 2002, 11:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So thanks for the mod voogru, good work, and when I'm feeling like having a higher than my observed 6% chance of winning as a marine, I'll be certain to head to your server. Those 3 times I've won as a marine were certainly much more rewarding than all the times I've won as an alien.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Or hey, maybe you could have faith in the actual dev team--Who, by the way, you <b>SHOULD</b> be thanking in your first post-- to fix their actual game, assuming it even has any problems and you don't just suck as a marine. Which is highly unlikely, it's more likely that your team sucks as a whole and you just contribute to the overall suckiness. I know it's nuts to think that anyone in the Half-Life community might actually have some morals, but is it so hard to believe that a group of people who were capable of implenting a working RTS-style component into a 4 year old FPS engine are also capable of balancing a game? And furthermore, does the game really need these gameplay altering server mods this early in it's life?
You don't necessarily suck as a marine, but you're definitely an unlucky one. The marines do need some tweaks to help them out, commander mode isn't very smooth and lacks a way to find and select groups of marines quickly, the HUD maps aren't working completely, couple other things are bugged, and guys with welders could really use the ability to see the armor level on their teammates. Once those changes are made, I think they'll wind up on a much more equal footing with the Kharaa. The commander is the big strength of the humans, and right now commanders are very hampered by their interface. Once they get the better controls that've been promised, it should make a huge difference.
When it comes to getting things properly balanced, though, my faith is in the developer team rather than third parties. Might take 'em a couple weeks, but they'll get there, and it'll all be good.
I must say that it angres me that the guy is so blatantly ignorant of the fact that hes down right trampeling the hard work of the ns team by this mod of his. While you can argue that it is nice to c the game deviate from its standard, well **obscenity** YOU! this is alrdy a mod, and does not need to be modded. They are making no money off off this game, and if you tamper and change things, and other ppl do this it will effectively negate all the hard work the team has put into the game. While you might argue that the text book definiots of cheating cannot be aplied to the situation a moral standard is what you should consider when judging the richeousnes of your decisions. If nothing else email, the dev team and ask them if they would have any opposition to your doing. I mean guy realize charles is out of a job, all he does is ns, its his "baby" brain child he put so much time and love into the game, and now you ignorantly change things because YOU think it might possibly make it better. **obscenity** if i added lazer weapons, and non visible marine mines the 12 year olds would thing that would be the coolest thing in teh world, but that does not mean it goes to improve the game in any positive manner. So think about it.
"...if i added lazer weapons, and non visible marine mines..."
Adding ~3hp per second of health recharge while at ammo stations and night vision goggles (which if you've tried them don't really help all that much normally, and look ugly) is hardly the same things as lasers and invisible mines.
Regardless, I just played two rounds on voogru's server inbetween my two posts here, as an alien, and we won both. However, the second game lasted much longer than typical, and we didn't get the 3rd hive until nearly 80 minutes into the game. Of course, it was all over about 10 minutes after that.
Point is, it doesn't create any huge imbalance, nay, it doesn't even fix the current imbalance, but it helps a little. Sure, the dev team will hopefully balance things out some, and I'll be happy to see that happen. But until they do, voogru has a nice little set up here, for those who enjoy this kind of thing. If I enjoy playing <i>against</i> the team that has these advantages, what does that say? When you stop to think about it, <i>they're not big changes, and it still plays about the same.</i>
I understand that some of you don't like this server-side mod. That's perfectly fine if you feel it's unnecessary. But claiming that it's wrong to do, and flaming voogru for his efforts, is the kind of thing that destroys a community. NS has, in general, a much nicer community than say, CS. However, that could easily change if people continue to post these irrational flames full of emotionally charged language, with lots of opinion but no supporting facts.
And yes, I would think I must be a very unlucky marine. But, on the same note, that also means I'm a very lucky alien, hmm? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Take care all, and try to remember that there's plenty of room for dissenting opinions, but no room for rampant intolerance. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
My goodness at all of the opinions. I can't believe all of the negative comments! And btw - great comment about who is paying for server. If your not, you don't have much a right to complain about anything. Because if you enter a server that you're not paying for, your effectively entering someone elses HOME. They have rules, abide by them. If you don't like the rules, LEAVE. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Wasn't that easy?
Oh yeah; almost forgot. Lots of kids here. They think rules are for everyone except for them. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Last time I checked, everyone in this country has rights to their own opinions. Let us not forget however, that sharing them might get you introuble. Entering someone elses' server, and dictating the rules simply isn't a WISE thing to do. Notice I said WISE. There is a BIG difference in wisdom, and intelligence. You might think of yourself as a very SMART person; but be a fool.
I found lots of fools here today. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Your friend,
kInG kAhUnA
BTW - keep up the great work voogru. People come to voogru.com to play BECAUSE of the modz. Not my kick **obscenity** server, and it's pings. [QUOTE]
voogru: If you don't intend to remove it, at least balance it. Make it so it costs credits to extract health. Or make it so the commander can press a button to 'restock' the machien full of health for like 50 credits, or something. You're messing the balance up <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Brutus+Nov 21 2002, 11:07 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Brutus @ Nov 21 2002, 11:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is hilarious. I like all the lawyers replying. And the people saying 'You will kill NS with your plugin'.
Go away. If he wants to make plugins for NS so what, just don't play on those servers.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> exactly. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Lazysam+Nov 21 2002, 04:49 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lazysam @ Nov 21 2002, 04:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I must say that it angres me that the guy is so blatantly ignorant of the fact that hes down right trampeling the hard work of the ns team by this mod of his. While you can argue that it is nice to c the game deviate from its standard, well **obscenity** YOU! this is alrdy a mod, and does not need to be modded. They are making no money off off this game, and if you tamper and change things, and other ppl do this it will effectively negate all the hard work the team has put into the game. While you might argue that the text book definiots of cheating cannot be aplied to the situation a moral standard is what you should consider when judging the richeousnes of your decisions. If nothing else email, the dev team and ask them if they would have any opposition to your doing. I mean guy realize charles is out of a job, all he does is ns, its his "baby" brain child he put so much time and love into the game, and now you ignorantly change things because YOU think it might possibly make it better. **obscenity** if i added lazer weapons, and non visible marine mines the 12 year olds would thing that would be the coolest thing in teh world, but that does not mean it goes to improve the game in any positive manner. So think about it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why don't you let the NS team worry about their own feelings. People make mods and then people add to them.
How many of you Voogru bashers are running 3rd party Microsoft Windows tweaks or browser plugins? I'm guessing 100%. So STFU cause you obviously don't believe that the developers of software have sole discretion over deciding the absolute best way it ought to be run and have no problem running "mods" that change the software in ways you like.
If he wants to run his server this way he can, the dev team can do something about it if they av a problem, hes not going anything major to ns changing about 3 things isn't really that much now is it, if he had their code u would av to download another version of NS to actually play on his server these minor changez are only due to a mod plugin woteva he made of wot he thinks wil make his server beta, make his life easier, but he is obviously giving a major advantage to the marines which is kind of dodgy. his server he can do wot he wants end of story really isn't it? tho i must disagree with those 3 things he as made to make marines stronger u are clearly giving the marines too much of on advantage if u want people to stop uhh going on about shite like me then try and get feedback for the changez u can make which wil make it more lets say fun then giving the marines a totally unfair advantage -BTW i could not be botherd to read the last 3 pagez so flame me if u will coz i mite av said repeats of some other people or woteva
He's paying for the server, it's his right to tweak things. Face it, anything that's not hard-coded is fair game for the experienced modder, especially since NS is a mod of another game in the first place. And since he says he's not distributing it yet, that means *only* his server or servers have it installed. Out of the number of NS servers up at any given time, it shouldn't be a problem to find one that isn't running his mod. I haven't played on his servers, but I'm sure "raping the core of NS" is a bit of an exaggeration.
And about the changes... 1) If the marines don't look up when they enter a room, I'm still going to chomp their head off. And unless it reveals cloaked units, I don't think I'd have much of a problem taking out marines who think they can go rambo because they can see in the dark. 2) Once Xenocide and Bile Bomb are fixed, those marines standing around the armory getting health are gonna make really really nice targets. 3) gibs? Big deal. The dev team took it out for PC issues. If he wants to put it back in, who cares?
And this thread is six pages long. If Flayra really thought that voogru was destroying NS, I think he'd come in here and say so, eh?
Dont use that "he paid for server he does what he want" crap as an excuse.
It is his server, but it doesn't mean he has any right to do anything to NS. NS didn't come with a banner saying "mod me however you feel like it". Most people with common sense will at least ask the developer before making a public appearance of that edited mod.
Like I said, I would hate to see newbies getting used to this "plugin" and bash how the original Natural Selection "sucks" because it is "unbalancing" for the "marines.
Hell, with all these advantages the marines better win. This "plugin" favours the marines, obviously. I don't know why but most people seem to fall for marines, and I guess this is a bad sign.
My main point? Ask the developer for permission to edit or stuff. How would you feel if you spent some years dedicated to a game in the form of art, to have someone come and say "Ohhh this looks nice but I'll make it better in my image" and publicize this message? What would people think about Flayra and the dev team then? All their hard work altered by someone who thought the game was "unbalanced" making the public prasies the editor instead of the creator?
That is very disturbing.
And dont' say that "leave the developers' feeling to themselves and mind your own" thing. Are you really a fan of this mod or you're just looking to play some games which will satisfy your need of killing? Anyone who posts in this forum either like or love the game, if not, hate it. if you dont hate it, then you must like it to some extent. Then why not care for the creditors once in a while and empathize how they feel? How would you feel if you created a state of the art gamework and noone appreciates it because they're just looking to kill and stuff?
I'm starting to lose coherentness here. I better stop. But I still don't like the idea of modding a mod, because the way it was intented to be had been altered and all the hardwork go down the drain...
Its funny how many people think this is "their" server. It isnt your server, Voogru can do whatever the hell he wants, and if you don't like it you can go play on one of the other 299 or so servers out there.
If I want to paint my house pink and orange, and you don't like it, well thats your f00king problem now isnt it? Maybe you should go look at the other billion houses out there instead.
In the same sense, <b>no ones forcing you to play on this server</b>.
Well lets see the dev team hasn't come in and said anything so i guess its ok or they cant be arsed these changez are only friggen tincy bits of woteva i dont see ur problem maybe coz someone else has tinkerd with ns or something but going on about how he cant do nothing to NS is stuipid its like saying u cant use metamod or adminmod wit ns either they do the same things hes just made tiny changez its not like hes added damagez or changed it so resources come in +1000 every second or something he hasn't totally ruined it just made life easier for marines harder for aliens as long as its balanced its alrite i guess yet i neva played on je server
Acrobad: The game <i>is</i> unbalanced in its current state - all of the weapons based on splash damage fail some, if not most, of the time. The game's been public for what? 3 weeks? There have already been two patches making pretty big changes, and at the absolute least there's a server patch 1.03 and a client patch 1.1 in the works. NS will <i>change</i>. It's inevitable. Maybe by the time the devs are done with it voogru's changes will be completely irrelevant, who knows?
"How would you feel if you spent some years dedicated to a game in the form of art, to have someone come and say 'Ohhh this looks nice but I'll make it better in my image' " Isn't that what every modder, including the dev team of NS, is doing in the first place?
<!--QuoteBegin--JHunz+Nov 21 2002, 11:59 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JHunz @ Nov 21 2002, 11:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Isn't that what every modder, including the dev team of NS, is doing in the first place?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> But halflife comes with custom game ability itself and Valve themselves supported them.
So Valve released the SDKs and allowed them to mod their game.
However, I just feel that it would be at least nice to ask the dev team for permission.
and again, I just can't stress this enough, if first-timers join voogru server's and believe NS was meant to be that way, then these newbies will be doomed for the later patched because they'll sooo not get use to the real NS.
With all due respect, Voogru is doing a nice job, out of a nice way, but I can see some downfall in this and I just doesnt' feel comfortable in it.
And the game <i>seems</i> unbalanced right now because of all the bugs... but out of all the games i played, the marines win once in a while with a good team, and loses many times because of a bad team.
Who is it to blame then? the dev team for having bad players on one team? The fact is that Aliens can be more independent but marines got to have real good teamworks in order to survive. This isn't unbalanced. Isn't this what NS was intented to be?
joevGiving grief... With a smile.Join Date: 2002-07-20Member: 977Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
Ok guys. Some points: 1. Calm down! Jeez.. you'd swear voogru had released a new mod under his name by stealing NS code the way you guys are bitching.
He's released (sorta) a modmod... so what? He and like minded people want to play it then that's their perogative. As has been said several times, you don't have to play it if you don't want to.
2. Excellent looking idea voogru. I look forward to the public release of it so I can see how it goes (and if it's my cup of tea).
NS is not designed to be a static never changing MOD... Subsequent releases of NS could well have features similar (or not) to this... Will you guys kick up such a ruckus then? (probably)
3. Don't speak for the dev team unless you are *on* the dev team. If Flayra was worried about voogru's adaptions I'm fairly sure he can speak for himself (at length.. jeez.. the guy never shuts up... no wait.. that's Monse!)
4. The changes that voogru has done do not look to me to be massively un-balancing. The only issue is the Armoury, and even at that I think that the original idea was to have a 'med station' in the game.. I'm not sure of that was scrapped or just set aside before V2.
The rest, it strikes me, are more about athmosphere (I'm ignoring the admins stuff here as that isn't the contentious point) than gameplay. (I love the idea of NV goggles.. I can imagine myself as Hudson crawling down a tunnel on a bug-hunt :>)
Basically, chill out dudes (and dudettes). As a person who has been playing NS 5 hours a day on average since july, I can tell you that nothing there 'offends' my sense of the NS experience. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--TenSix+Nov 21 2002, 04:53 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TenSix @ Nov 21 2002, 04:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If I want to paint my house pink and orange, and you don't like it, well thats your f00king problem now isnt it? Maybe you should go look at the other billion houses out there instead.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Do you mind if I come to your house and rearrange the furniture to my liking?
<!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> The Children! Would somebody think about the Children?! [/moe]
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--DOOManiac+Nov 18 2002, 06:28 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DOOManiac @ Nov 18 2002, 06:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Resource nodes glow similar to the flag in TFC...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> tell me whats so freki´n bad about dat?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I had problem seeing resource nodes normally (i know they go all green when you have selected resource tower) but in general i could never quite find them alone. so i simply made them glow.
Again, Why do you people complain about a server which no one is forcing you to go play in? there is some 600 servers, i run ONE not all 600! So if you dont like my mod. dont play on my server.
well i can see newbies joining this server and then going back to cs /tfc cos frankly it ruins the game and WHO DO U THINK U R
1. your kill the game
2. Why feck whith someone elses work???
3. U only modded it cos u can't do your fecking own!!! you such a great coder wow u make it glow!!! w00t what about if the person is colour blind?? u going to make it glow black?
You a 133t i bown to j000 u pwned NS
You freak
hehe now i done WTF do u think u r doing?? WHAT GIves u the right to feck with such a great mod??
ok i have done.
i say he goes into our ban list <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Acrobad+Nov 21 2002, 11:50 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Acrobad @ Nov 21 2002, 11:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Dont use that "he paid for server he does what he want" crap as an excuse.
It is his server, but it doesn't mean he has any right to do anything to NS. NS didn't come with a banner saying "mod me however you feel like it". Most people with common sense will at least ask the developer before making a public appearance of that edited mod.
Like I said, I would hate to see newbies getting used to this "plugin" and bash how the original Natural Selection "sucks" because it is "unbalancing" for the "marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> One thing you won't worry about, I'm sure. This mod being shared with anyone. lol
One more thing.
Thanks for all the advertisement! It's great.
I checked today about 11 am EST; 350 servers about w/pings less then 100. 4 had someone playing in them. 1 was totally FULL. Guess which one was full?
since voogru and I put up NS, it has remained FULL. 24 hours / 7 days. Hardly ever has there been a time there was a slot open to get in.
You can say they come for the ping. Thanks, prolly they do. It's run off an OC48. You can say they come for the competetion. Thanks again, they prolly do. You can say they come for the mods. Thanks to voogru, they prolly do. You can say they come just to cause trouble. They do, and I'll be sure to take care of it. For what ever reason they do come; We Luv it. We have GREAT users, and AWE SOME sports men/women. We also have our bruised apples.
If you want to have a server on your own, it's simple. Just START yourself one. Just like the other 342 people did with no body playing in them. lol <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
If you don't want to start a server, come to play at ns.voogru.net IT'S FREE, NO LLAMAS ALLOWED.
<!--QuoteBegin--JHunz+Nov 21 2002, 11:46 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JHunz @ Nov 21 2002, 11:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2) Once Xenocide and Bile Bomb are fixed, those marines standing around the armory getting health are gonna make really really nice targets. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yep I see this all the time. Also if one of the aliens starts to kill the ammo despencer it DONT give health till it is welded/fiXed. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
Personally, I don't think Natural Selection, post-patch, is balanced. Sure, I'm likely going to get flamed by a bunch of trolls for saying this, but my experience, which is a highly individual thing, backs up my claim.
I have never seen the marines win an even game (same number of players). In fact, in every case, there was usually an advantage of 2 players for the marine side for the majority of the game, especially in the crucial early times.
I've only played perhaps a little over 100 rounds of NS since the patch. Out of all of these, I've won as a marine 3 times, and been defeated as an alien 3 times. The rest were (obviously) either me winning as an alien, or losing as a marine.
This includes times when it seemed like my commanders were making excellent tactical decisions, securing hives, and doing what seemed right. It also, of course, included times when the commanders were not so good, or the marines didn't follow orders as well as they should have. A typical scene is a commander sending 5 soldiers to defend a location, and having all of them die by the jaws of 1 or 2 skulks.
So from this perspective, I'm really happy to see the marines get a very small boost. Sure, I think I can still mop up the marines as an alien on voogru's server, but perhaps it will be a little closer. Certainly as a marine, it's nice to think that you don't have to consistantly sacrifice yourself in spawn gear to get boosted back to full health, when the commander has decided that giving health to marines in normal armor is a waste of resources.
So thanks for the mod voogru, good work, and when I'm feeling like having a higher than my observed ~5% chance of winning as a marine, I'll be certain to head to your server. Those 3 times I've won as a marine were certainly much more rewarding than all the times I've won as an alien.
*Braces for the flood of comments claiming I must suck as a marine, etc*
[Edit: Note that all of this is in regards to NS 1.01 and 1.02. My time in 1.0 is seperate, and had different results. So no posts claiming that you've won as a marine won all the time, please, if you're referring to pre-patch rounds.]
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or hey, maybe you could have faith in the actual dev team--Who, by the way, you <b>SHOULD</b> be thanking in your first post-- to fix their actual game, assuming it even has any problems and you don't just suck as a marine. Which is highly unlikely, it's more likely that your team sucks as a whole and you just contribute to the overall suckiness. I know it's nuts to think that anyone in the Half-Life community might actually have some morals, but is it so hard to believe that a group of people who were capable of implenting a working RTS-style component into a 4 year old FPS engine are also capable of balancing a game? And furthermore, does the game really need these gameplay altering server mods this early in it's life?
When it comes to getting things properly balanced, though, my faith is in the developer team rather than third parties. Might take 'em a couple weeks, but they'll get there, and it'll all be good.
Adding ~3hp per second of health recharge while at ammo stations and night vision goggles (which if you've tried them don't really help all that much normally, and look ugly) is hardly the same things as lasers and invisible mines.
Regardless, I just played two rounds on voogru's server inbetween my two posts here, as an alien, and we won both. However, the second game lasted much longer than typical, and we didn't get the 3rd hive until nearly 80 minutes into the game. Of course, it was all over about 10 minutes after that.
Point is, it doesn't create any huge imbalance, nay, it doesn't even fix the current imbalance, but it helps a little. Sure, the dev team will hopefully balance things out some, and I'll be happy to see that happen. But until they do, voogru has a nice little set up here, for those who enjoy this kind of thing. If I enjoy playing <i>against</i> the team that has these advantages, what does that say? When you stop to think about it, <i>they're not big changes, and it still plays about the same.</i>
I understand that some of you don't like this server-side mod. That's perfectly fine if you feel it's unnecessary. But claiming that it's wrong to do, and flaming voogru for his efforts, is the kind of thing that destroys a community. NS has, in general, a much nicer community than say, CS. However, that could easily change if people continue to post these irrational flames full of emotionally charged language, with lots of opinion but no supporting facts.
And yes, I would think I must be a very unlucky marine. But, on the same note, that also means I'm a very lucky alien, hmm? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Take care all, and try to remember that there's plenty of room for dissenting opinions, but no room for rampant intolerance. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh yeah; almost forgot. Lots of kids here. They think rules are for everyone except for them. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Last time I checked, everyone in this country has rights to their own opinions. Let us not forget however, that sharing them might get you introuble. Entering someone elses' server, and dictating the rules simply isn't a WISE thing to do. Notice I said WISE. There is a BIG difference in wisdom, and intelligence. You might think of yourself as a very SMART person; but be a fool.
I found lots of fools here today. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Your friend,
kInG kAhUnA
BTW - keep up the great work voogru. People come to voogru.com to play BECAUSE of the modz. Not my kick **obscenity** server, and it's pings.
[QUOTE]
voogru: If you don't intend to remove it, at least balance it. Make it so it costs credits to extract health. Or make it so the commander can press a button to 'restock' the machien full of health for like 50 credits, or something. You're messing the balance up <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Go away. If he wants to make plugins for NS so what, just don't play on those servers.
Go away. If he wants to make plugins for NS so what, just don't play on those servers.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
exactly. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Why don't you let the NS team worry about their own feelings. People make mods and then people add to them.
his server he can do wot he wants end of story really isn't it? tho i must disagree with those 3 things he as made to make marines stronger u are clearly giving the marines too much of on advantage if u want people to stop uhh going on about shite like me then try and get feedback for the changez u can make which wil make it more lets say fun then giving the marines a totally unfair advantage
-BTW i could not be botherd to read the last 3 pagez so flame me if u will coz i mite av said repeats of some other people or woteva
And about the changes...
1) If the marines don't look up when they enter a room, I'm still going to chomp their head off. And unless it reveals cloaked units, I don't think I'd have much of a problem taking out marines who think they can go rambo because they can see in the dark.
2) Once Xenocide and Bile Bomb are fixed, those marines standing around the armory getting health are gonna make really really nice targets.
3) gibs? Big deal. The dev team took it out for PC issues. If he wants to put it back in, who cares?
And this thread is six pages long. If Flayra really thought that voogru was destroying NS, I think he'd come in here and say so, eh?
It is his server, but it doesn't mean he has any right to do anything to NS. NS didn't come with a banner saying "mod me however you feel like it". Most people with common sense will at least ask the developer before making a public appearance of that edited mod.
Like I said, I would hate to see newbies getting used to this "plugin" and bash how the original Natural Selection "sucks" because it is "unbalancing" for the "marines.
Hell, with all these advantages the marines better win. This "plugin" favours the marines, obviously. I don't know why but most people seem to fall for marines, and I guess this is a bad sign.
My main point? Ask the developer for permission to edit or stuff. How would you feel if you spent some years dedicated to a game in the form of art, to have someone come and say "Ohhh this looks nice but I'll make it better in my image" and publicize this message? What would people think about Flayra and the dev team then? All their hard work altered by someone who thought the game was "unbalanced" making the public prasies the editor instead of the creator?
That is very disturbing.
And dont' say that "leave the developers' feeling to themselves and mind your own" thing. Are you really a fan of this mod or you're just looking to play some games which will satisfy your need of killing? Anyone who posts in this forum either like or love the game, if not, hate it. if you dont hate it, then you must like it to some extent. Then why not care for the creditors once in a while and empathize how they feel? How would you feel if you created a state of the art gamework and noone appreciates it because they're just looking to kill and stuff?
I'm starting to lose coherentness here. I better stop. But I still don't like the idea of modding a mod, because the way it was intented to be had been altered and all the hardwork go down the drain...
If I want to paint my house pink and orange, and you don't like it, well thats your f00king problem now isnt it? Maybe you should go look at the other billion houses out there instead.
In the same sense, <b>no ones forcing you to play on this server</b>.
End of story.
these changez are only friggen tincy bits of woteva i dont see ur problem maybe coz someone else has tinkerd with ns or something but going on about how he cant do nothing to NS is stuipid its like saying u cant use metamod or adminmod wit ns either they do the same things
hes just made tiny changez its not like hes added damagez or changed it so resources come in +1000 every second or something he hasn't totally ruined it just made life easier for marines harder for aliens as long as its balanced its alrite i guess yet i neva played on je server
"How would you feel if you spent some years dedicated to a game in the form of art, to have someone come and say 'Ohhh this looks nice but I'll make it better in my image' "
Isn't that what every modder, including the dev team of NS, is doing in the first place?
But halflife comes with custom game ability itself and Valve themselves supported them.
So Valve released the SDKs and allowed them to mod their game.
However, I just feel that it would be at least nice to ask the dev team for permission.
and again, I just can't stress this enough, if first-timers join voogru server's and believe NS was meant to be that way, then these newbies will be doomed for the later patched because they'll sooo not get use to the real NS.
With all due respect, Voogru is doing a nice job, out of a nice way, but I can see some downfall in this and I just doesnt' feel comfortable in it.
And the game <i>seems</i> unbalanced right now because of all the bugs... but out of all the games i played, the marines win once in a while with a good team, and loses many times because of a bad team.
Who is it to blame then? the dev team for having bad players on one team? The fact is that Aliens can be more independent but marines got to have real good teamworks in order to survive. This isn't unbalanced. Isn't this what NS was intented to be?
Some points:
1. Calm down!
Jeez.. you'd swear voogru had released a new mod under his name by stealing NS code the way you guys are bitching.
He's released (sorta) a modmod... so what? He and like minded people want to play it then that's their perogative. As has been said several times, you don't have to play it if you don't want to.
2. Excellent looking idea voogru. I look forward to the public release of it so I can see how it goes (and if it's my cup of tea).
NS is not designed to be a static never changing MOD... Subsequent releases of NS could well have features similar (or not) to this... Will you guys kick up such a ruckus then? (probably)
3. Don't speak for the dev team unless you are *on* the dev team. If Flayra was worried about voogru's adaptions I'm fairly sure he can speak for himself (at length.. jeez.. the guy never shuts up... no wait.. that's Monse!)
4. The changes that voogru has done do not look to me to be massively un-balancing. The only issue is the Armoury, and even at that I think that the original idea was to have a 'med station' in the game.. I'm not sure of that was scrapped or just set aside before V2.
The rest, it strikes me, are more about athmosphere (I'm ignoring the admins stuff here as that isn't the contentious point) than gameplay. (I love the idea of NV goggles.. I can imagine myself as Hudson crawling down a tunnel on a bug-hunt :>)
Basically, chill out dudes (and dudettes). As a person who has been playing NS 5 hours a day on average since july, I can tell you that nothing there 'offends' my sense of the NS experience. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
joev.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you mind if I come to your house and rearrange the furniture to my liking?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--DOOManiac+Nov 18 2002, 06:28 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DOOManiac @ Nov 18 2002, 06:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Resource nodes glow similar to the flag in TFC...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
tell me whats so freki´n bad about dat?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I had problem seeing resource nodes normally (i know they go all green when you have selected resource tower) but in general i could never quite find them alone. so i simply made them glow.
Again, Why do you people complain about a server which no one is forcing you to go play in? there is some 600 servers, i run ONE not all 600! So if you dont like my mod. dont play on my server.
Simple as that.
1. your kill the game
2. Why feck whith someone elses work???
3. U only modded it cos u can't do your fecking own!!! you such a great coder wow u make it glow!!! w00t what about if the person is colour blind?? u going to make it glow black?
You a 133t i bown to j000 u pwned NS
You freak
hehe now i done WTF do u think u r doing?? WHAT GIves u the right to feck with such a great mod??
ok i have done.
i say he goes into our ban list <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
It is his server, but it doesn't mean he has any right to do anything to NS. NS didn't come with a banner saying "mod me however you feel like it". Most people with common sense will at least ask the developer before making a public appearance of that edited mod.
Like I said, I would hate to see newbies getting used to this "plugin" and bash how the original Natural Selection "sucks" because it is "unbalancing" for the "marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
One thing you won't worry about, I'm sure. This mod being shared with anyone. lol
One more thing.
Thanks for all the advertisement! It's great.
I checked today about 11 am EST; 350 servers about w/pings less then 100. 4 had someone playing in them. 1 was totally FULL. Guess which one was full?
since voogru and I put up NS, it has remained FULL. 24 hours / 7 days. Hardly ever has there been a time there was a slot open to get in.
You can say they come for the ping. Thanks, prolly they do. It's run off an OC48. You can say they come for the competetion. Thanks again, they prolly do. You can say they come for the mods. Thanks to voogru, they prolly do. You can say they come just to cause trouble. They do, and I'll be sure to take care of it. For what ever reason they do come; We Luv it. We have GREAT users, and AWE SOME sports men/women. We also have our bruised apples.
If you want to have a server on your own, it's simple. Just START yourself one. Just like the other 342 people did with no body playing in them. lol <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
If you don't want to start a server, come to play at ns.voogru.net IT'S FREE, NO LLAMAS ALLOWED.
<!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
As you join the server, the console explains that this is an altered version of NS, so new players will go back to CS/TFC. This erases any confusion.
There's no need for all this flaming just because you don't like what he did. If you don't like it, don't play it.
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/uploads/post-1-1037597265.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
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Yep I see this all the time. Also if one of the aliens starts to kill the ammo despencer it DONT give health till it is welded/fiXed. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->