why ruin all good in ns1
kalakuja
Join Date: 2012-09-11 Member: 159045Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter
Join Date: 2012-09-11 Member: 159045Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter
<div class="IPBDescription">wtf is this</div>Heard the game runs rather smooth so i decided to gfive it out to a spin.
Now i get that the game isn't ns1 but why the heck there are so ridicilous choices made.
wtf lerk no spores, makes lerk so damn useless. one pistol whip and he's gone
wtf no bunnyhop and this wallhop thing is useless in most of locations as youve decided to put so much ###### on the walls.
wtf is marine sprint. They move faster than regular aliens?
wtf is this personal res bull. Can't even gain more res from kills and seems to be very out of place.
wtf no fade blink in start. so damn bore.
i just can't see any way that these things have made ns2 a better game than ns1. Please help me understand.
Now i get that the game isn't ns1 but why the heck there are so ridicilous choices made.
wtf lerk no spores, makes lerk so damn useless. one pistol whip and he's gone
wtf no bunnyhop and this wallhop thing is useless in most of locations as youve decided to put so much ###### on the walls.
wtf is marine sprint. They move faster than regular aliens?
wtf is this personal res bull. Can't even gain more res from kills and seems to be very out of place.
wtf no fade blink in start. so damn bore.
i just can't see any way that these things have made ns2 a better game than ns1. Please help me understand.
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Comments
Now i get that the game isn't ns1 but why the heck there are so ridicilous choices made.
wtf lerk no spores, makes lerk so damn useless. one pistol whip and he's gone
wtf no bunnyhop and this wallhop thing is useless in most of locations as youve decided to put so much ###### on the walls.
wtf is marine sprint. They move faster than regular aliens?
wtf is this personal res bull. Can't even gain more res from kills and seems to be very out of place.
wtf no fade blink in start. so damn bore.
i just can't see any way that these things have made ns2 a better game than ns1. Please help me understand.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh dear where to start.
-Lerk spores are in the game, they require a 2nd hive and research - there is no pistol whip..
-Bunnyhopping was a product of the hl engine, not ns1. - wallhopping is currently broken.
-Without marine sprint it would be gg early as no one could get to rt's to save them
-Personal res is actually nice for pubs etc so new players don't get stuck as skulks forever, you also have more freedom.
-Fade blink being a resaerch is A, a good rez sink, and B it stops comms from dropping fade eggs early as they need a second hive.
I'd like to remark that your are either ignorant ( as your grammar etc shows ) or your a fail troll.
This is NS2. I welcome these changes as something different and new. With these new changes I've played some great matches, and some crap matches, welcome to online gaming.
Pistol whip a lerk? Then the lerk needs to learn not to idle for so long. If the person has such a good aim that he can pistol whip a great flying lerk then congrats to him.
Bunnyhop? I agree i miss bunnyhop, however it is definitely not necessary for being able to get around the map or take on a marine anymore.
Marine sprint doesnt last long. I like it, gives me a chance to retreat after an encounter with a skulk. Plus its not like you can shoot while sprinting.
Gaining res from kills has been discussed to death, i personally welcome this change away from NS1.
Ill admit, sometimes I do miss what NS1 was, hence why i still have it installed and play now and then, but I think NS2 is a great game and many here will agree.
wtf marine tech depending on 2CC
wtf artificial hard-cap on hydras
wtf glass sentries (thankfully getting better in 219)
wtf bilebomb range farther than GL
wtf expectedly energy-costing abilities costing RESOURCES
wtf armory heals armor
on the positive side there were MANY WTF:s that were fixed in the latest few patches, where I was like "OMG! I'M NOT CRAZY UWE AGREES!!"
I recommend you first peruse this google Doc on their Design: <a href="https://docs.google.com/a/unknownworlds.com/document/d/1hsm7f9baZPFETauqIoeWwN6hbaJVGMMZet2bUY24fGk/edit?pli=1" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/a/unknownworlds.com...4fGk/edit?pli=1</a>
As for most of your items, here's a few quick reasons off the top of my head.
<b>Bunnyhop removal:</b>
Removed since it was unintuitive for new players to learn. Wallhop instead added to provide Skulk skill-based movement. The arguments have been long and arduous, so I'll let others rehash them if you'd like.
<b>TRes (Ream Resources) and PRes (Personal Resources):</b>
This was changed to let the game's res system scale better with more players. Instead of in NS1 where aliens were disadvantaged with mroe players due to passive Res being split over more lifeforms, with the TRes and PRes you now have a stable tech progression (TRes) and a scaling player equipment system (PRes).
This unhinging also frees up the Commander from buying and spamming equipment, giving the individual players more agency in selecting their loadout.
<b>Res-for-Kill Removed</b>
Mostly for two reasons. Primarily so that good players are not overvalued and snowball over newer players. This also makes it so the game isn't focused on kills and more about map control and winning objectives.
However, this decision is still hotly contested. Due to the lock-step res generation Aliens and Marines now have tech explosions. Aliens especially when several Fades suddenly all appear. To help mitigate this there is no res gain on death, which haven't completely solved the problem and has its own issues, namely AFK players can generate more res than active players who are dying. Coupled with long wave-spawns of Aliens this has been a major point of discussion. This also removes the ability for teams to lose map control (resource nodes) but still comeback via kills.
<b>Fades not starting with Blink</b>
Mostly because Hive1 Fades were ruining Marines in earlier testing, especially with the early iterations of teleportation. Instead it was locked into Hive2 Tech and a ShadowStep given for Hive1 to give fades mobility. People are still arguing over if this is the right idea, especially since you can now shoot Fades while they Blink.
<b>Lerks</b>
Spores being moves to crop-duster mechanics is becuase Charlie didn't like Lerks hiding int he vents and sporing from a distance. Counter arguments have been crop-dusting makes the Lerk too vulnerable to Shotguns. Hive1 spikes provide a safe ranged harass for the Lerk, but many int he forums are still <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=120054&view=findpost&p=1968891" target="_blank">discussing how to revise the Lerk</a> (yay Fana).
<b>Marine Sprint</b>
It's a limited mobility boost to help Marines. I'm not 100% sure on all of the reasons behind it, but it does give a tradeoff of lowering your weapon.
Hope that helps a bit. i'm sure others will help fill in some of the gaps.
or an alt
Spores are in but they are work more like a crop duster released from the lerk. You have to fly around while holding it. The alien commander has to research spores before the aliens can use it.
Also it was just recently buffed from 13hp a sec to 20hp a sec. I have not tested it yet because my last alien com didn't research it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->wtf no bunnyhop and this wallhop thing is useless in most of locations as youve decided to put so much ###### on the walls.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is being tweaked and may be currently broken in this build.
If you look at <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SLCGdD_VK0" target="_blank">this tutorial video</a> you can see that wall jumping is no joke if you can do it during that build.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->wtf is marine sprint. They move faster than regular aliens?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I play both teams fairly evenly and this hasn't been an issue for me at all. Marines still move much slower when backing up.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->wtf is this personal res bull. Can't even gain more res from kills and seems to be very out of place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They recently took out res for kills and I want it back in.
Right now when you die you do not gain personal resources for each res tick...
You have a much higher risk of dying when you are playing the game but the current system personally rewards players who are AFK more than those who are "in the thick" so to speak. I think RFK needs to be put back in.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->wtf no fade blink in start. so damn bore.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fade is really damn good as it is right now. It is supposed to be a skilled and strong class, and it most definitely is.
He moves very fast, can fly, and become close to invisible at the same time with Blink.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i just can't see any way that these things have made ns2 a better game than ns1. Please help me understand.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is different, that's for sure. Just play some more and try not to be too nostalgic.
Right now I am having a lot of fun with it. Try out spectator mode too, it is a hell of a lot more polished than in NS1.
But I agree on Res for Kill.
Maybe if he dumped all of his weapons beforehand...and then he can do it for the entire three seconds that Sprint lasts.
Lots of lurking to catch up on.
If you want the short-hand answer.....
Things are different in NS2 from NS1.
Some things are better, some things are worse.
Overall it feels fresh and works relatively well.
There are balance issues but clearly this game is heading in the right direction.
Play it some more and lurk and post around the forums some more too!
It may not be NS1 but I personally feel that it is just as good, but in its own way.
Actually you dont need to dump them, just take out axe and it near doubles your sprint speed.
Finally we meet, another fellow axe runner. I thought I was the only one dammit!
Is that it? Does that mean that dropping your weapons doesn't actually speed you up any?
It speeds you up to even faster speeds
wtf no bunnyhop and this wallhop thing is useless in most of locations as youve decided to put so much ###### on the walls.
wtf is marine sprint. They move faster than regular aliens?
wtf is this personal res bull. Can't even gain more res from kills and seems to be very out of place.
wtf no fade blink in start. so damn bore.
i just can't see any way that these things have made ns2 a better game than ns1. Please help me understand.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lerk without spores is diluted of his class role but it's an upgrade. If you can lerk a lot earlier then this may be a good change, just like early fade.
bunnyhop isn't there but there's wallhop. walljumping is like bunnyhopping but it counts a lot on map geometry. I don't like walljumping personally, bunnyhop was intuitive because it also made air control important and not clunky as it is now, and it doesn't count on wall geometry in order to work well.
Marine movement is really nerfed to make it more "tactical" and less movement skill-based by removing being able to jump more than once a second or being able to move backwards (or punishing for using the s key to the point where you're better off unbinding it to remind yourself to not use it). It is also my honest opinion that sprint does not fit this game at all, doesn't add anything other than make balancing issues worse, and remove skill from marine movement. Don't like this one bit because they are trying to balance marine speed around it and it is INCREDIBLY boring to have to use the same stupid strafe + jump once trick every encounter when it could be like this instead: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNai9Qg1Jb0&feature=player_detailpage#t=36s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNai9Qg1Jb0...etailpage#t=36s</a> it's a shame that they destroyed a lot of marine potential as the difference between a good marine and a bad one is just his aim and positioning which isn't obvious at first glance. Everything else is teamwork and commander stuff, not really what I would say makes a marine individually different from another.
Res from kill isn't that good/important mechanic to have.
you can still get fades with blink, you just have a choice of using fade earlier now with just shadowstep.
It's not so bad really. I feel like even if they don't improve on these mechanics NS2 is still a solid successor, they took a huge risk by making some choices that would appeal to an audience that does not yet exist (but that's what NS1 did, and what made it a success) or making some mechanics noob-friendly to a point that it's on the brink of being annoying or detrimental to the fun of better players, but nothing can be said for sure for now.
Also it doesn't even work right because I have seen guys with more deaths than others and yet they have more res because of the spawn wave timings.
WHAT DAFUQ????
Mate, this game is all about nostalgia. Try playing Zelda - Ocarina of time 2 and not be nostalgic? Of course you're gonna be nostalgic! And they removed all the nostalgia from NS2.
It may just be me, and me alone.... but I would like NS1 with NS2 graphics. Or NS2 with NS1 game mechanics. Either works fine.
You see, this is what I hate about sequels. They try to lure new generations or fanbases into their product rather than satisfying the old one. I'm sorry to say this, but the first time the CoD kid sits in the command chair or tries playing as alien, he is going to log out and say this isn't for me. You cannot lure the BF3 or MW3 noobcakes into this game, because it is a completely different game. They might enjoy playing as a marine for a couple of minutes before they start asking about vehicles and why there isn't a sniper rifle included in the game.
I am glad to see that the engine has been perfected a bit so most of the lag is gone, but a alien team winning and spamming structures still brings a lot of lag to the game.
Interested to see how lerk buff goes though, doubt it will change too much in the end since it is still fundamentally flawed.
And the devs seem to be avoiding the issue with skulk movement gah so frustrating...
WHAT DAFUQ????
Mate, this game is all about nostalgia. Try playing Zelda - Ocarina of time 2 and not be nostalgic? Of course you're gonna be nostalgic! And they removed all the nostalgia from NS2.
It may just be me, and me alone.... but I would like NS1 with NS2 graphics. Or NS2 with NS1 game mechanics. Either works fine.
You see, this is what I hate about sequels. They try to lure new generations or fanbases into their product rather than satisfying the old one. I'm sorry to say this, but the first time the CoD kid sits in the command chair or tries playing as alien, he is going to log out and say this isn't for me. You cannot lure the BF3 or MW3 noobcakes into this game, because it is a completely different game. They might enjoy playing as a marine for a couple of minutes before they start asking about vehicles and why there isn't a sniper rifle included in the game.
I am glad to see that the engine has been perfected a bit so most of the lag is gone, but a alien team winning and spamming structures still brings a lot of lag to the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Couldn't have said it better myself.
WHAT DAFUQ????
Mate, this game is all about nostalgia. Try playing Zelda - Ocarina of time 2 and not be nostalgic? Of course you're gonna be nostalgic! And they removed all the nostalgia from NS2.
It may just be me, and me alone.... but I would like NS1 with NS2 graphics. Or NS2 with NS1 game mechanics. Either works fine.
You see, this is what I hate about sequels. They try to lure new generations or fanbases into their product rather than satisfying the old one. I'm sorry to say this, but the first time the CoD kid sits in the command chair or tries playing as alien, he is going to log out and say this isn't for me. You cannot lure the BF3 or MW3 noobcakes into this game, because it is a completely different game. They might enjoy playing as a marine for a couple of minutes before they start asking about vehicles and why there isn't a sniper rifle included in the game.
I am glad to see that the engine has been perfected a bit so most of the lag is gone, but a alien team winning and spamming structures still brings a lot of lag to the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Except NS1, despite being a great game, had lots of flaws and copying them for nostalgia's sake is just retarded.
NS1 changed a lot through the years and some things worked, some didn't. That's evolution.
I've seen this reaction before with some crazy version 1.04 "purists" in NS1 that refused to play any version after that because it was "ruined".
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And they removed all the nostalgia from NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can't remove nostalgia from a thing, nostalgia is just your perception.
I got a lot of nostalgic feelings just from booting the alpha and playing around testing buildings, weapons and lifeforms.
That doesn't mean I didn't hate the idea of marines not being able to build, no plan to implemented phase gates etc., because those were good mechanics from NS1.
Devour, ultra strong walls of lame and silly endgame turtling were not and thus removed, good riddance.
The game maintains the core gameplay aspects, adds a lot of enhancements and more freedom to marines and aliens alike.
Some of you guys are overreacting like they've added perks or killstreaks in the game.
NS1 changed a lot through the years and some things worked, some didn't. That's evolution.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunately Flayra + dev team removed what they didn't like rather than what the community did not like. Alot of the lessons learned in NS1 have not been carried across to NS2. Time and time again through NS2 alpha we've seen numerous new ideas on how to do something eventually be reverted back to its NS1 version.
Debatable.
<!--quoteo(post=1976234:date=Sep 12 2012, 01:19 PM:name=male_fatalities)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (male_fatalities @ Sep 12 2012, 01:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976234"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Alot of the lessons learned in NS1 have not been carried across to NS2. Time and time again through NS2 alpha we've seen numerous new ideas on how to do something eventually be reverted back to its NS1 version.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True they tried a few new core concepts in the early alpha to see if they could improve.
Upon testing it turned out it wasn't very good and thus reverted back.
They didn't force it down your throat or "raped your childhood".
The "everything was better in NS1" mentality is highly illogical because NS1 was a game that usually changed from night and day with every big version update.
No one thinks everything was better in NS1 that isn't true but a lot of very good core things have be messed with in a bad way...
<a href="http://unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=118878&st=0&p=1942315&" target="_blank">http://unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index....;p=1942315&</a>
NS1.04 - 2.1 was quite a flawed game. They learnt lessons all the way through which culminated eventually into the super balanced, competitive and skill based game of 3.0 - 3.2. They are basically starting from scratch by implementing 'features' and completely changing the way the game is played in NS2.
* alien commander
* pres/tres resource model
* movement skill potential
I personally am FINE with this, as I consider NS2 the second best game out there (1st is NS1). HOWEVER, I know ALOT of NS1 vet/comp players that refuse to come back to the game cause of these drastic changes.
The real question is... would they make more $$$ off old vets coming back to NS2 or more $$$ attracting a new audience. We all know what direction they have gone and best of luck for them... but please understand the frustration the NS1 comp vets have.
WHAT DAFUQ????
Mate, this game is all about nostalgia. Try playing Zelda - Ocarina of time 2 and not be nostalgic? Of course you're gonna be nostalgic! And they removed all the nostalgia from NS2.
It may just be me, and me alone.... but I would like NS1 with NS2 graphics. Or NS2 with NS1 game mechanics. Either works fine.
You see, this is what I hate about sequels. They try to lure new generations or fanbases into their product rather than satisfying the old one. I'm sorry to say this, but the first time the CoD kid sits in the command chair or tries playing as alien, he is going to log out and say this isn't for me. You cannot lure the BF3 or MW3 noobcakes into this game, because it is a completely different game. They might enjoy playing as a marine for a couple of minutes before they start asking about vehicles and why there isn't a sniper rifle included in the game.
I am glad to see that the engine has been perfected a bit so most of the lag is gone, but a alien team winning and spamming structures still brings a lot of lag to the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What I meant was don't let the fact that it isn't a 100% clone with updated graphics stop you from enjoying the game. There are people working on a mod for NS2 to make it NS1 with updated graphics if that is what you are looking for.
This game still doesn't baby you, it's still just as complex and still has a high barrier to entry. In fact it is not THAT different from NS1.
Aliens have a commander now and a some things have been removed, added, tweaked.
This is shaping up to be a really good sequel and they are changing stuff for the better and sometimes the worse in this beta all the time.