With this two threads from new forum members that both demand NS1 with NS2-graphics I thought exactly the same. "Just make enough noise so the devs listen."
Anyway. There is a mod for you guys in development.
<!--quoteo(post=1976269:date=Sep 12 2012, 12:04 PM:name=Mr R0YB0T 0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr R0YB0T 0 @ Sep 12 2012, 12:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976269"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In fact it is not THAT different from NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I could actually see that as a weakness. NS1 is extremely tight, precise, fluent and functional in things it does. So far NS2 is a lot of the same, but it's spread into so many directions that it just doesn't have the polish to compete with the NS1 that has basic mechanics from a swiss pocket watch.
A lot comes down to how NS2 new features work and so far it's a bit iffy stuff. There's a lot of interesting in it, but a lot of the features are still 'not quite there yet'.
<!--quoteo(post=1976279:date=Sep 12 2012, 08:40 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Sep 12 2012, 08:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976279"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I could actually see that as a weakness. NS1 is extremely tight, precise, fluent and functional in things it does. So far NS2 is a lot of the same, but it's spread into so many directions that it just doesn't have the polish to compete with the NS1 that has basic mechanics from a swiss pocket watch.
A lot comes down to how NS2 new features work and so far it's a bit iffy stuff. There's a lot of interesting in it, but a lot of the features are still 'not quite there yet'.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS1 didn't become 3.2 overnight. It's a small team that makes NS2 and the game is still Beta. There aren't even decals yet.
I think more of us, myself included, need to keep beta testing to help fix bugs, exploits and broken game mechanics. This is not a finished product. It isn't even an open beta!
<!--quoteo(post=1975953:date=Sep 11 2012, 06:57 PM:name=Flipper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flipper @ Sep 11 2012, 06:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975953"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd like to remark that your are either ignorant ( as your grammar etc shows ) or your a fail troll.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry, I just can't stop and let this happen where you are correcting someones grammar but on two separate occasions you fail immensely. its you're not your.
<!--quoteo(post=1976297:date=Sep 12 2012, 09:39 AM:name=Dank McShwagger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dank McShwagger @ Sep 12 2012, 09:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976297"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The only feature of NS1 that I miss is devour. I'll show myself out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ns2 caters to people who enjoy CoD sort of games or NS combat generally. the classic mode we all fell in love with was ripped apart by charlie. Fanboys will cry (new generation fanboys) and older vets dont care anymore. bottom line, just wait for a mod from someone to adopt older ideas which charlie refuses to adopt. (no matter how much it worked great for many years, ideas that worked, in charlie eyes they cant work in ns2?!)
just take look at recent changes to the lerk. Slowly, and slowly we are adopting ns1 lerk ideas, but look what we had to go through to realize it. I'm sure other great ides he refused to adopt will end up in the game, or some people here will wake up again during gameplay.
<!--quoteo(post=1976198:date=Sep 12 2012, 06:56 PM:name=Reconomgwtfbbq)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Reconomgwtfbbq @ Sep 12 2012, 06:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976198"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It may just be me, and me alone.... but I would like NS1 with NS2 graphics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thankfully, and mercifully, you can have that. Meanwhile, I and many other people would appreciate you not spitting on those who wish to explore new and exciting concepts, mechanics and experiences.
<!--quoteo(post=1976545:date=Sep 12 2012, 10:19 PM:name=Strayan (NS2HD))--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Strayan (NS2HD) @ Sep 12 2012, 10:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976545"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thankfully, and mercifully, you can have that. Meanwhile, I and many other people would appreciate you not spitting on those who wish to explore new and exciting concepts, mechanics and experiences.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
new concepts don't work nor the mechanics. But you did create new experience, I give you that.
The biggest problem is simply ignoring what has worked for years, and replacing it with "exciting concepts" which doesn't work. And patching the issue (aka forcing it to work) isn't good idea. NS1 should have been better blueprint for charlie, but he chose to look the other way when making ns2. Sorry, but we're so close to release date, and we still have problems issues ns1 fixed, which has years of testing behind it but charlie chooses to explore ideas that only work in his head.
<!--quoteo(post=1976548:date=Sep 12 2012, 03:28 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ Sep 12 2012, 03:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976548"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->new concepts don't work nor the mechanics. But you did create new experience, I give you that.
The biggest problem is simply ignoring what has worked for years, and replacing it with "exciting concepts" which doesn't work. And patching the issue (aka forcing it to work) isn't good idea. NS1 should have been better blueprint for charlie, but he chose to look the other way when making ns2. Sorry, but we're so close to release date, and we still have problems issues ns1 fixed, which has years of testing behind it but charlie chooses to explore ideas that only work in his head.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Natural Selection 2 will have a long development cycle so I think its fine that they try new ideas. They do make revisions(sentries, lerks) when they don't work out so well, and iterate revisions to improve gameplay though player feedback. The point of a new game is to explore new mechanics and try new concepts. You think NS1 concepts and mechanics worked on day 1? If you don't like something about the game you are free to mod it as you wish, Charlie is just a guy after all and awesome game design doesn't just spurt out of his pores.
<!--quoteo(post=1976545:date=Sep 12 2012, 06:19 PM:name=Strayan (NS2HD))--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Strayan (NS2HD) @ Sep 12 2012, 06:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976545"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thankfully, and mercifully, you can have that. Meanwhile, I and many other people would appreciate you not spitting on those who wish to explore new and exciting concepts, mechanics and experiences.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really like this thread. Somebody identified a bunch of obvious flaws in the game and some lazy idiots show up to go "YOU MUST BE NEW HERE LOL!!!!!!" and raise their postcounts.
1. New spores are 10x better than old spores 2. Bunnyhop was beyond stupid and I am glad it is gone, skulk movement still extremely skill based. 3. Marine sprint has a timer and they cannot shoot while doing it, it is crucial to holding res nodes and is a good addition to the game. 4. Pres is fine and is 1000x easier for newer people to understand, it also adds a new layer of strategy and cooperation 5. Honestly, only bad fades "need" blink, so I am assuming you are one of them.
<!--quoteo(post=1976603:date=Sep 12 2012, 07:35 PM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Sep 12 2012, 07:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976603"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ns1 vet here, let me explain a few things.
1. New spores are 10x better than old spores 2. Bunnyhop was beyond stupid and I am glad it is gone, skulk movement still extremely skill based. 3. Marine sprint has a timer and they cannot shoot while doing it, it is crucial to holding res nodes and is a good addition to the game. 4. Pres is fine and is 1000x easier for newer people to understand, it also adds a new layer of strategy and cooperation 5. Honestly, only bad fades "need" blink, so I am assuming you are one of them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ns1 vet here, let me disagree
<ol type='1'><li>you didn't explain this and I don't trust you because your posts always make me sad for humanity</li><li>again, your opinion of something as stupid or 'skill-based' with zero explanation is .. not useful</li><li>water is wet and the sky is blue. marine sprint is still a waste of cpu cycles and hard drive space.</li><li>it has also cost an enormous amount of development time and made everyone question all the fundamentals of NS and come out believing a bunch of incorrect ideas</li><li>show me the fades who aren't bad and don't need blink. show me videos of them playing. you can't do this, though, so hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm</li></ol>
<!--quoteo(post=1976603:date=Sep 12 2012, 11:35 PM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Sep 12 2012, 11:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976603"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ns1 vet here, let me explain a few things.
1. New spores are 10x better than old spores 2. Bunnyhop was beyond stupid and I am glad it is gone, skulk movement still extremely skill based. 3. Marine sprint has a timer and they cannot shoot while doing it, it is crucial to holding res nodes and is a good addition to the game. 4. Pres is fine and is 1000x easier for newer people to understand, it also adds a new layer of strategy and cooperation 5. Honestly, only bad fades "need" blink, so I am assuming you are one of them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Respectfully disagree with you. A fade without blink is a dead fade. It's obvious you are very passionate about NS2 and really like it, but when you say things like blink is a nice to have and not a must have you come across as a fanboy who thinks the devs poop gold bricks.
<!--quoteo(post=1976498:date=Sep 12 2012, 11:45 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ Sep 12 2012, 11:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976498"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ns2 caters to people who enjoy CoD sort of games or NS combat generally.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's quite a broad generalization about the NS2 fanbase. Less balant trollbait please.
<!--quoteo(post=1976498:date=Sep 12 2012, 11:45 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ Sep 12 2012, 11:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976498"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->just take look at recent changes to the lerk. Slowly, and slowly we are adopting ns1 lerk ideas, but look what we had to go through to realize it. I'm sure other great ides he refused to adopt will end up in the game, or some people here will wake up again during gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IIRC, it took till 3.0 for the NS1 lerk to even get bite, NS1 changed through the years way more than NS2 did since alpha.
<!--quoteo(post=1976606:date=Sep 12 2012, 04:38 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Sep 12 2012, 04:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976606"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ns1 vet here, let me disagree
<ol type='1'><li>you didn't explain this and I don't trust you because your posts always make me sad for humanity</li><li>again, your opinion of something as stupid or 'skill-based' with zero explanation is .. not useful</li><li>water is wet and the sky is blue. marine sprint is still a waste of cpu cycles and hard drive space.</li><li>it has also cost an enormous amount of development time and made everyone question all the fundamentals of NS and come out believing a bunch of incorrect ideas</li><li>show me the fades who aren't bad and don't need blink. show me videos of them playing. you can't do this, though, so hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm</li></ol><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Didn't have a good comp back in the day, but went back to catch up on ns1 as ns2 was going through early beta.
1) I do like new spores, makes area denial risky. You cant just sit back and make it so marines cant storm an area, you have to continuously put yourself at risk (and dodge bullets) to deny hallways.
2) Wall jumping is not overpowered, but allows a small speed boost (from 7base to ~11) if you possess the skill. Also you must know how to deal with marines. If u drop and dont kill him in 3sec, dont keep biting. Instead, scurry up the wall to avoid the reloaded rifle spray and drop again for a second go.
3) Early game marines need sprint, they are as slow as exos without it (slow being a tradeoff for the heavy guns/armor). Again, they have to stop to shoot, so I don't see the problem.
4) Pres allows players to play the way they want, a necessary step in broadening NS to the public. The recent inclusion of late game lifeforms/weapons with commander tres brings a much needed late-game element and focus on teamwork.
5) Uhh ill stream and u can watch me. Couple shadowstep with double jump and you can shift/space/shift/space/shift/space your way across the map in no time (no SS delay).
<!--quoteo(post=1976606:date=Sep 12 2012, 11:38 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Sep 12 2012, 11:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976606"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ns1 vet here, let me disagree
<ol type='1'><li>you didn't explain this and I don't trust you because your posts always make me sad for humanity</li><li>again, your opinion of something as stupid or 'skill-based' with zero explanation is .. not useful</li><li>water is wet and the sky is blue. marine sprint is still a waste of cpu cycles and hard drive space.</li><li>it has also cost an enormous amount of development time and made everyone question all the fundamentals of NS and come out believing a bunch of incorrect ideas</li><li>show me the fades who aren't bad and don't need blink. show me videos of them playing. you can't do this, though, so hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm</li></ol><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Old spores = sit back and shoot = boring unimaginative gameplay, new spores = flying into combat, dodging bullets, being pro and getting into the thick of battle. 2. And yet you have no explination as to why it is skill based, all "bunny hopping" is, is a simple rythem technique that anyone who knows INSTANTLY has a massive advantage over anyone who doesn't. Do you honestly think bunnyhopping is hard? Because it's not. So called "vets" only want it because it puts newer players at a disadvantage and allows them to stomp them and "pretend" they are good when they really aren't. 3. Again, your opinion of marine sprint as stupid or 'a waste of space' with zero explanation is .. not useful 4. Again, your opinion of something as stupid or 'a Waste of time' with zero explanation is .. not useful 5. I already linked you a video, you will see plenty of fade gameplay, it isn't hard if you arn't bad. But of course the baddies always want things to be dumbed down and easier "instant blink because they can't handle shadowstep"
<!--quoteo(post=1976642:date=Sep 12 2012, 08:12 PM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Sep 12 2012, 08:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976642"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. Old spores = sit back and shoot = boring unimaginative gameplay, new spores = flying into combat, dodging bullets, being pro and getting into the thick of battle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What a frighteningly silly bunch of generalizations. I can see why you're a professional game designer already.
<!--quoteo(post=1976642:date=Sep 12 2012, 08:12 PM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Sep 12 2012, 08:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976642"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. And yet you have no explination as to why it is skill based, all "bunny hopping" is, is a simple rythem technique that anyone who knows INSTANTLY has a massive advantage over anyone who doesn't. Do you honestly think bunnyhopping is hard? Because it's not. So called "vets" only want it because it puts newer players at a disadvantage and allows them to stomp them and "pretend" they are good when they really aren't.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
is it easy to do what people are doing in these videos? are they pretending they're good? can you do these things?
<!--quoteo(post=1976642:date=Sep 12 2012, 08:12 PM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Sep 12 2012, 08:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976642"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3. Again, your opinion of marine sprint as stupid or 'a waste of space' with zero explanation is .. not useful<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1976642:date=Sep 12 2012, 08:12 PM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Sep 12 2012, 08:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976642"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->4. Again, your opinion of something as stupid or 'a Waste of time' with zero explanation is .. not useful<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
grats, you have unlocked forum parroting
<!--quoteo(post=1976642:date=Sep 12 2012, 08:12 PM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Sep 12 2012, 08:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976642"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->5. I already linked you a video, you will see plenty of fade gameplay, it isn't hard if you arn't bad. But of course the baddies always want things to be dumbed down and easier "instant blink because they can't handle shadowstep"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this is the funniest thing I've ever seen and I can't believe I don't play ns2
wooowwwww. this is seriously an enormous joke and I'm going to close my browser now because my head hurts. good luck with ns2, everybody!
<!--quoteo(post=1976658:date=Sep 12 2012, 08:22 PM:name={GGs} Chicken)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ({GGs} Chicken @ Sep 12 2012, 08:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976658"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That guy just reeled you in good under his bridge IE.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if he's trolling why does he have a 25 minute pub ns2 video on youtube that he unashamedly links to other humans?
You still avoid the responses to sprint and personal res since you are obviously wrong and instead must resort to meaningless "they are just bad" statements.
<!--quoteo(post=1976683:date=Sep 12 2012, 08:36 PM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Sep 12 2012, 08:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976683"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You still avoid the responses to sprint and personal res since you are obviously wrong and instead must resort to meaningless "they are just bad" statements.
Pretty typical from such an obvious troll.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1976690:date=Sep 12 2012, 08:40 PM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Sep 12 2012, 08:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976690"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just admit you are bad and got trashed when you tried to play NS2, and thus came to the forums to cry about how "imba" it is.
And thinking that bunny hopping = skill is laughable. You would have to be really bad to honestly believe that it is hard to do.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no, really, show me the specific posts you want me to address and I'll do it
3. Marine sprint has a timer and they cannot shoot while doing it, it is crucial to holding res nodes and is a good addition to the game. 4. Pres is fine and is 1000x easier for newer people to understand, it also adds a new layer of strategy and cooperation
Tried to rationally clear up all 5 of those points, apparently nobody gives a ###### and you'd rather troll each other. Gotta stop trying to use logic on NS2 forums...
<!--quoteo(post=1976694:date=Sep 12 2012, 08:42 PM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Sep 12 2012, 08:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976694"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3. Marine sprint has a timer and they cannot shoot while doing it, it is crucial to holding res nodes and is a good addition to the game. 4. Pres is fine and is 1000x easier for newer people to understand, it also adds a new layer of strategy and cooperation<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<ul><li>I told you, water is wet and the sky is blue. Anyone who has played the game knows that there is a timer and they can't shoot while doing it. That doesn't mean it's okay. In my experience, it rarely impacts gameplay because it's so brutally easy to turn sprinting off in time. The net result (again, in my experience) is that marines get an incredibly easy "movement skill" that benefits them in virtually all situations. It's not interesting, and it doesn't solve a problem that couldn't be solved 500 other ways that were ignored or belittled. It's not worth my time to argue with you about whether sprinting is easy to use or not, but I assure you there are many unique posts on the forums by people who noticed that it is.</li><li>It's crucial to holding res nodes because the game has been designed around it. The engine in the back of the Ford Pinto was crucial to that car being able to move, but it wasn't a good idea :) Back to NS2 - the walljump is crucial to succeeding as the skulk, but that doesn't justify it being in the game. I could do this for ages with NS2 mechanics. There were and still are other ways to let marines move and defend res towers without putting a namby-pamby xbox 'pres butan to run faster' ability in the game.</li><li>You can't prove something is "1000x easier" or "10x better" and you know you can't. No one has actually shown which res system is 'easier to understand' because the entire development of this game has been based off of anecdotes in forum posts, who can yell the loudest and so on. That there is still (really long-winded) debate about pres/tres tells me it's fundamentally not satisfying a lot of people. The people who don't say anything about it are still affected by it (for better or for worse). Again, personal preference doesn't speak to whether something is truly a good design.</li><li>I don't see how pres adds strategy or cooperation. You have more decisions to make as an individual, but they're always extremely obvious because half the tech in the game is bad. There's very little cooperation because, again, half the tech in the game is bad. There's no notion of "splitting pres between players by choosing complementary roles" because classes like the gorge and lerk flat-out <b>suck</b>. The alternative (only tres) still has players ultimately making all the same choices. The buttons are just pushed by different people.</li></ul>
When real software companies develop something and want to make claims about whether it really works or not, they do large-scale studies. For example, Microsoft gets more people in a room than actively play this beta, and asks them if they like where the 'underline text' button is. They ask if it's easy to find, easy to understand, and so on. They treat each response equally instead of sitting in an echo chamber with fanboys.
I forget where I was going with this, but there's absolutely no point in me replying to a statement like "a is 1000x easier than b!" If you don't understand that, I won't convince you.
<!--quoteo(post=1976704:date=Sep 12 2012, 05:48 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Sep 12 2012, 05:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976704"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When real software companies develop something and want to make claims about whether it really works or not, they do large-scale studies. For example, Microsoft gets more people in a room than actively play this beta, and asks them if they like where the 'underline text' button is. They ask if it's easy to find, easy to understand, and so on. They treat each response equally instead of sitting in an echo chamber with fanboys.
I forget where I was going with this, but there's absolutely no point in me replying to a statement like "a is 1000x easier than b!" If you don't understand that, I won't convince you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sure UWE has the time and manpower to do large-scale studies. IMO the suggestions taken into consideration from the forum are more than I could have asked for.
Comments
With this two threads from new forum members that both demand NS1 with NS2-graphics I thought exactly the same. "Just make enough noise so the devs listen."
Anyway. There is a mod for you guys in development.
I could actually see that as a weakness. NS1 is extremely tight, precise, fluent and functional in things it does. So far NS2 is a lot of the same, but it's spread into so many directions that it just doesn't have the polish to compete with the NS1 that has basic mechanics from a swiss pocket watch.
A lot comes down to how NS2 new features work and so far it's a bit iffy stuff. There's a lot of interesting in it, but a lot of the features are still 'not quite there yet'.
A lot comes down to how NS2 new features work and so far it's a bit iffy stuff. There's a lot of interesting in it, but a lot of the features are still 'not quite there yet'.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS1 didn't become 3.2 overnight. It's a small team that makes NS2 and the game is still Beta.
There aren't even decals yet.
I think more of us, myself included, need to keep beta testing to help fix bugs, exploits and broken game mechanics.
This is not a finished product. It isn't even an open beta!
I'm sorry, I just can't stop and let this happen where you are correcting someones grammar but on two separate occasions you fail immensely. its you're not your.
I'm with you on that.
just take look at recent changes to the lerk. Slowly, and slowly we are adopting ns1 lerk ideas, but look what we had to go through to realize it. I'm sure other great ides he refused to adopt will end up in the game, or some people here will wake up again during gameplay.
Thankfully, and mercifully, you can have that. Meanwhile, I and many other people would appreciate you not spitting on those who wish to explore new and exciting concepts, mechanics and experiences.
new concepts don't work nor the mechanics. But you did create new experience, I give you that.
The biggest problem is simply ignoring what has worked for years, and replacing it with "exciting concepts" which doesn't work. And patching the issue (aka forcing it to work) isn't good idea. NS1 should have been better blueprint for charlie, but he chose to look the other way when making ns2. Sorry, but we're so close to release date, and we still have problems issues ns1 fixed, which has years of testing behind it but charlie chooses to explore ideas that only work in his head.
The biggest problem is simply ignoring what has worked for years, and replacing it with "exciting concepts" which doesn't work. And patching the issue (aka forcing it to work) isn't good idea. NS1 should have been better blueprint for charlie, but he chose to look the other way when making ns2. Sorry, but we're so close to release date, and we still have problems issues ns1 fixed, which has years of testing behind it but charlie chooses to explore ideas that only work in his head.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Natural Selection 2 will have a long development cycle so I think its fine that they try new ideas. They do make revisions(sentries, lerks) when they don't work out so well, and iterate revisions to improve gameplay though player feedback. The point of a new game is to explore new mechanics and try new concepts. You think NS1 concepts and mechanics worked on day 1? If you don't like something about the game you are free to mod it as you wish, Charlie is just a guy after all and awesome game design doesn't just spurt out of his pores.
AMEN
You'll reap what you sow, folks :)
<!--quoteo(post=1975952:date=Sep 11 2012, 06:55 PM:name=Fen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fen @ Sep 11 2012, 06:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975952"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><img src="http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/you-must-be-new-here-willy-wonka.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seriously, posts like this are shameful. You didn't even type any words.
1. New spores are 10x better than old spores
2. Bunnyhop was beyond stupid and I am glad it is gone, skulk movement still extremely skill based.
3. Marine sprint has a timer and they cannot shoot while doing it, it is crucial to holding res nodes and is a good addition to the game.
4. Pres is fine and is 1000x easier for newer people to understand, it also adds a new layer of strategy and cooperation
5. Honestly, only bad fades "need" blink, so I am assuming you are one of them.
1. New spores are 10x better than old spores
2. Bunnyhop was beyond stupid and I am glad it is gone, skulk movement still extremely skill based.
3. Marine sprint has a timer and they cannot shoot while doing it, it is crucial to holding res nodes and is a good addition to the game.
4. Pres is fine and is 1000x easier for newer people to understand, it also adds a new layer of strategy and cooperation
5. Honestly, only bad fades "need" blink, so I am assuming you are one of them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ns1 vet here, let me disagree
<ol type='1'><li>you didn't explain this and I don't trust you because your posts always make me sad for humanity</li><li>again, your opinion of something as stupid or 'skill-based' with zero explanation is .. not useful</li><li>water is wet and the sky is blue. marine sprint is still a waste of cpu cycles and hard drive space.</li><li>it has also cost an enormous amount of development time and made everyone question all the fundamentals of NS and come out believing a bunch of incorrect ideas</li><li>show me the fades who aren't bad and don't need blink. show me videos of them playing. you can't do this, though, so hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm</li></ol>
1. New spores are 10x better than old spores
2. Bunnyhop was beyond stupid and I am glad it is gone, skulk movement still extremely skill based.
3. Marine sprint has a timer and they cannot shoot while doing it, it is crucial to holding res nodes and is a good addition to the game.
4. Pres is fine and is 1000x easier for newer people to understand, it also adds a new layer of strategy and cooperation
5. Honestly, only bad fades "need" blink, so I am assuming you are one of them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Respectfully disagree with you. A fade without blink is a dead fade. It's obvious you are very passionate about NS2 and really like it, but when you say things like blink is a nice to have and not a must have you come across as a fanboy who thinks the devs poop gold bricks.
That's quite a broad generalization about the NS2 fanbase.
Less balant trollbait please.
<!--quoteo(post=1976498:date=Sep 12 2012, 11:45 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ Sep 12 2012, 11:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976498"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->just take look at recent changes to the lerk. Slowly, and slowly we are adopting ns1 lerk ideas, but look what we had to go through to realize it. I'm sure other great ides he refused to adopt will end up in the game, or some people here will wake up again during gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IIRC, it took till 3.0 for the NS1 lerk to even get bite, NS1 changed through the years way more than NS2 did since alpha.
<ol type='1'><li>you didn't explain this and I don't trust you because your posts always make me sad for humanity</li><li>again, your opinion of something as stupid or 'skill-based' with zero explanation is .. not useful</li><li>water is wet and the sky is blue. marine sprint is still a waste of cpu cycles and hard drive space.</li><li>it has also cost an enormous amount of development time and made everyone question all the fundamentals of NS and come out believing a bunch of incorrect ideas</li><li>show me the fades who aren't bad and don't need blink. show me videos of them playing. you can't do this, though, so hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm</li></ol><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Didn't have a good comp back in the day, but went back to catch up on ns1 as ns2 was going through early beta.
1) I do like new spores, makes area denial risky. You cant just sit back and make it so marines cant storm an area, you have to continuously put yourself at risk (and dodge bullets) to deny hallways.
2) Wall jumping is not overpowered, but allows a small speed boost (from 7base to ~11) if you possess the skill. Also you must know how to deal with marines. If u drop and dont kill him in 3sec, dont keep biting. Instead, scurry up the wall to avoid the reloaded rifle spray and drop again for a second go.
3) Early game marines need sprint, they are as slow as exos without it (slow being a tradeoff for the heavy guns/armor). Again, they have to stop to shoot, so I don't see the problem.
4) Pres allows players to play the way they want, a necessary step in broadening NS to the public. The recent inclusion of late game lifeforms/weapons with commander tres brings a much needed late-game element and focus on teamwork.
5) Uhh ill stream and u can watch me. Couple shadowstep with double jump and you can shift/space/shift/space/shift/space your way across the map in no time (no SS delay).
<ol type='1'><li>you didn't explain this and I don't trust you because your posts always make me sad for humanity</li><li>again, your opinion of something as stupid or 'skill-based' with zero explanation is .. not useful</li><li>water is wet and the sky is blue. marine sprint is still a waste of cpu cycles and hard drive space.</li><li>it has also cost an enormous amount of development time and made everyone question all the fundamentals of NS and come out believing a bunch of incorrect ideas</li><li>show me the fades who aren't bad and don't need blink. show me videos of them playing. you can't do this, though, so hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm</li></ol><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Old spores = sit back and shoot = boring unimaginative gameplay, new spores = flying into combat, dodging bullets, being pro and getting into the thick of battle.
2. And yet you have no explination as to why it is skill based, all "bunny hopping" is, is a simple rythem technique that anyone who knows INSTANTLY has a massive advantage over anyone who doesn't. Do you honestly think bunnyhopping is hard? Because it's not. So called "vets" only want it because it puts newer players at a disadvantage and allows them to stomp them and "pretend" they are good when they really aren't.
3. Again, your opinion of marine sprint as stupid or 'a waste of space' with zero explanation is .. not useful
4. Again, your opinion of something as stupid or 'a Waste of time' with zero explanation is .. not useful
5. I already linked you a video, you will see plenty of fade gameplay, it isn't hard if you arn't bad. But of course the baddies always want things to be dumbed down and easier "instant blink because they can't handle shadowstep"
What a frighteningly silly bunch of generalizations. I can see why you're a professional game designer already.
<!--quoteo(post=1976642:date=Sep 12 2012, 08:12 PM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Sep 12 2012, 08:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976642"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. And yet you have no explination as to why it is skill based, all "bunny hopping" is, is a simple rythem technique that anyone who knows INSTANTLY has a massive advantage over anyone who doesn't. Do you honestly think bunnyhopping is hard? Because it's not. So called "vets" only want it because it puts newer players at a disadvantage and allows them to stomp them and "pretend" they are good when they really aren't.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9jJjeNDl5A" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9jJjeNDl5A</a>
<a href="http://video.alienwarearena.com/movie/1619/Celestia/" target="_blank">http://video.alienwarearena.com/movie/1619/Celestia/</a>
is it easy to do what people are doing in these videos? are they pretending they're good? can you do these things?
<!--quoteo(post=1976642:date=Sep 12 2012, 08:12 PM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Sep 12 2012, 08:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976642"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3. Again, your opinion of marine sprint as stupid or 'a waste of space' with zero explanation is .. not useful<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1976642:date=Sep 12 2012, 08:12 PM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Sep 12 2012, 08:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976642"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->4. Again, your opinion of something as stupid or 'a Waste of time' with zero explanation is .. not useful<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
grats, you have unlocked forum parroting
<!--quoteo(post=1976642:date=Sep 12 2012, 08:12 PM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Sep 12 2012, 08:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976642"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->5. I already linked you a video, you will see plenty of fade gameplay, it isn't hard if you arn't bad. But of course the baddies always want things to be dumbed down and easier "instant blink because they can't handle shadowstep"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this is the funniest thing I've ever seen and I can't believe I don't play ns2
wooowwwww. this is seriously an enormous joke and I'm going to close my browser now because my head hurts.
good luck with ns2, everybody!
if he's trolling why does he have a 25 minute pub ns2 video on youtube that he unashamedly links to other humans?
Pretty typical from such an obvious troll.
Pretty typical from such an obvious troll.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
which ones?
And thinking that bunny hopping = skill is laughable. You would have to be really bad to honestly believe that it is hard to do.
And thinking that bunny hopping = skill is laughable. You would have to be really bad to honestly believe that it is hard to do.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no, really, show me the specific posts you want me to address and I'll do it
4. Pres is fine and is 1000x easier for newer people to understand, it also adds a new layer of strategy and cooperation
4. Pres is fine and is 1000x easier for newer people to understand, it also adds a new layer of strategy and cooperation<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<ul><li>I told you, water is wet and the sky is blue. Anyone who has played the game knows that there is a timer and they can't shoot while doing it. That doesn't mean it's okay. In my experience, it rarely impacts gameplay because it's so brutally easy to turn sprinting off in time. The net result (again, in my experience) is that marines get an incredibly easy "movement skill" that benefits them in virtually all situations. It's not interesting, and it doesn't solve a problem that couldn't be solved 500 other ways that were ignored or belittled. It's not worth my time to argue with you about whether sprinting is easy to use or not, but I assure you there are many unique posts on the forums by people who noticed that it is.</li><li>It's crucial to holding res nodes because the game has been designed around it. The engine in the back of the Ford Pinto was crucial to that car being able to move, but it wasn't a good idea :) Back to NS2 - the walljump is crucial to succeeding as the skulk, but that doesn't justify it being in the game. I could do this for ages with NS2 mechanics. There were and still are other ways to let marines move and defend res towers without putting a namby-pamby xbox 'pres butan to run faster' ability in the game.</li><li>You can't prove something is "1000x easier" or "10x better" and you know you can't. No one has actually shown which res system is 'easier to understand' because the entire development of this game has been based off of anecdotes in forum posts, who can yell the loudest and so on. That there is still (really long-winded) debate about pres/tres tells me it's fundamentally not satisfying a lot of people. The people who don't say anything about it are still affected by it (for better or for worse). Again, personal preference doesn't speak to whether something is truly a good design.</li><li>I don't see how pres adds strategy or cooperation. You have more decisions to make as an individual, but they're always extremely obvious because half the tech in the game is bad. There's very little cooperation because, again, half the tech in the game is bad. There's no notion of "splitting pres between players by choosing complementary roles" because classes like the gorge and lerk flat-out <b>suck</b>. The alternative (only tres) still has players ultimately making all the same choices. The buttons are just pushed by different people.</li></ul>
When real software companies develop something and want to make claims about whether it really works or not, they do large-scale studies.
For example, Microsoft gets more people in a room than actively play this beta, and asks them if they like where the 'underline text' button is. They ask if it's easy to find, easy to understand, and so on. They treat each response equally instead of sitting in an echo chamber with fanboys.
I forget where I was going with this, but there's absolutely no point in me replying to a statement like "a is 1000x easier than b!" If you don't understand that, I won't convince you.
For example, Microsoft gets more people in a room than actively play this beta, and asks them if they like where the 'underline text' button is. They ask if it's easy to find, easy to understand, and so on. They treat each response equally instead of sitting in an echo chamber with fanboys.
I forget where I was going with this, but there's absolutely no point in me replying to a statement like "a is 1000x easier than b!" If you don't understand that, I won't convince you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sure UWE has the time and manpower to do large-scale studies. IMO the suggestions taken into consideration from the forum are more than I could have asked for.