<!--quoteo(post=1984911:date=Sep 30 2012, 10:23 AM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Sep 30 2012, 10:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984911"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also just looking at your feedback I'd say that it could be solved by simply preserving acquired momentum when entering blink. Now thats just an idea, idk if that truly is the only downside in your opinion<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't... now blinking actually requires more thinking ahead and skill. It is effective enough using one direction. Giving it more directions just make it easier to spam / exploit with. You can't just spam it and move around like a crazy idiot. Strafing while blinking was just buggy.
I actually think blink is easier now that it's one direction... it actually works in your favor if you use it right.
I can't remember any time they've done a nerf without going to absolutely absurd extremes. Something is perceived as OP (no matter if it's really OP or not), don't worry, next patch it will be completely useless!
They could have made initial blink energy cost higher instead of making it a bad mix between a leaping skulk with 100kgs of rocks and a lerk being played by a blind guy moving his mouse with his chin.
I almost feel like UWE listened to our feedback and changed things earlier in the beta to make us happy... but really just planned to revert everything on 1.0 to their liking.
I'm friends with a lot of beta testers and the general consensus I am hearing is that this game is going further and further into casual mode. This is the exact opposite that the most vocal and active have been pushing on the dev team for years now.
I personally want a game that is challenging on both sides, and I'm tired of wanting to be able to do something in the game that would feel <i>intuitive</i> only to have it nerfed or removed to soothe the casual crowd.... either that or the devs simply haven't had enough time to play their own game to see the problems. Things are working... but that doesn't mean it's ideal.
It's hard to take other peoples feedback seriously about your own creation. As a recording artist I would know. That's why I spend more time than anyone listening and thinking about my own creations. I trust the developers true and honest judgment on the game, but fear that they are being swayed over into a casual mode. Maybe I am missing the genius.
<!--quoteo(post=1984770:date=Sep 29 2012, 02:36 PM:name=HeatSurge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HeatSurge @ Sep 29 2012, 02:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984770"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Shadowstep is essential to fade gameplay, because you can use it with directions, unlike blink which only goes forward.
The fact that this thread even exists is surprising. To me the thread is equivalent to something like "Do marines need/want strafe?"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
^this completely
If you're a marine, you can TELL which direction a fade is going to blink. Watch where they face, snap your view to where they will come out of blink, and ignore trying to track them while they're right next to you. However, if the fade is using shadowstep, they can move in any direction without turning, which can mix up movement and throw off marine aim. Of course the downside is that you'll move a set distance in one of 8 directions, so it's possible for a marine to predict the point you'll reappear.
The no shadowstep implementation where blink research was a must plus blink gives no directional momentum so you can blink in any direction without being dragged forward is a lot harder for newer players and having shadowstep to use to dodge and it not needing upgrading was the perfect balance where it's something that is easier for newer players but still requires a lot of skill and maybe more so because it's another ability that increases the skill ceiling. Don't know if the devs just didn't realize it in time but they should now.
Shadowstep is great, however misplaced imo. Thought process behind last change was kinda hopeless, but maybe this is a good time for UWE to consider moving blink to first hive ability.
It would lessen the (over)cruciality of second hive, put more emphazine on RTs and open up new strategies on some maps other than fast hive. Most important thing would probably be the fact game would not turn hopeless if you lost your second hive before fades hatched or could not drop it for some reason.
Cant quickly think any downside to this, I suppose blink as it is on 221 would not be good enough could be one.
<!--quoteo(post=1984743:date=Sep 29 2012, 10:36 AM:name=comp_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (comp_ @ Sep 29 2012, 10:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984743"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't mind it being there, I dislike the fact they nerf blink for people to "use shadow step as well" (literally from the changelog).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> +1
They will also change (decrease) skulk bite and leap to bring Xenocide into the game. And they will change celerity and adrenaline again to give "Hypermutation" a right to exist. Thats innovation.
<!--quoteo(post=1984937:date=Sep 29 2012, 08:37 PM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ Sep 29 2012, 08:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984937"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't... now blinking actually requires more thinking ahead and skill. It is effective enough using one direction. Giving it more directions just make it easier to spam / exploit with. You can't just spam it and move around like a crazy idiot. Strafing while blinking was just buggy.
I actually think blink is easier now that it's one direction... it actually works in your favor if you use it right.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like multidirection. It messed up my fade movement ;/ Just blinking in 1 direction sucks lol.
<!--quoteo(post=1985152:date=Sep 30 2012, 11:20 AM:name=bLink`)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bLink` @ Sep 30 2012, 11:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985152"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like multidirection. It messed up my fade movement ;/ Just blinking in 1 direction sucks lol.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You could only blink in one direction in NS1... so I guess it feels normal to me, and I've had a lot of time to get used to it.
<!--quoteo(post=1985195:date=Sep 30 2012, 09:25 PM:name=Schleppy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Schleppy @ Sep 30 2012, 09:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985195"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With the adren change, I feel shadowstep should have no energy cost again like it used to...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While I don't really care about shadowstep costing energy or no, it would be easier to understand why it is there in the first place if it cost no energy.
<!--quoteo(post=1985195:date=Sep 30 2012, 11:25 AM:name=Schleppy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Schleppy @ Sep 30 2012, 11:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985195"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With the adren change, I feel shadowstep should have no energy cost again like it used to...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It requires TWO different buttons for movement mechanics. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but, like blink, it is not just a "press shift key" ability because it must aimed more precisely than sprinting. This actually makes it less accessible to new players because they have to learn 2 things instead of 1.
It doesn't go up. So there is now no way to quickly move vertically. Well, that takes fade play from 3d down to 2d.
It is a single press ability. There is no finesse to it, no slight gradations, no analog nature. Hard to master? Not in a fun way.
All of the design failures on movement mechanics in NS2 are based on assumptions that good players move the same way as bad players do, only "better" or more precisely. But that's not true, good players actually move <b>differently</b>.
Less accessible, lower skill ceiling, sounds like all ns2 movement. No thanks.
Last but not least, shadowstep is actually <b>broken</b>. Shadowstep often fails to work. You press it, it does nothing. Also it gets stuck on ground geometry because you can't aim it up. And it doesn't play well with jump. How can this possibly be a fundamental movement mechanic of the fade. It's supposed to replace blink for quick acceleration, but instead just leaves you walking around like a tool.
Why didn't you use the blink code for shadowstep code instead of retracing all the failures previously inherent in blink?! This is an unfortunate theme.
Comments
Or don't fix what an't broke
I don't... now blinking actually requires more thinking ahead and skill. It is effective enough using one direction. Giving it more directions just make it easier to spam / exploit with. You can't just spam it and move around like a crazy idiot. Strafing while blinking was just buggy.
I actually think blink is easier now that it's one direction... it actually works in your favor if you use it right.
They could have made initial blink energy cost higher instead of making it a bad mix between a leaping skulk with 100kgs of rocks and a lerk being played by a blind guy moving his mouse with his chin.
I'm friends with a lot of beta testers and the general consensus I am hearing is that this game is going further and further into casual mode. This is the exact opposite that the most vocal and active have been pushing on the dev team for years now.
I personally want a game that is challenging on both sides, and I'm tired of wanting to be able to do something in the game that would feel <i>intuitive</i> only to have it nerfed or removed to soothe the casual crowd.... either that or the devs simply haven't had enough time to play their own game to see the problems. Things are working... but that doesn't mean it's ideal.
It's hard to take other peoples feedback seriously about your own creation. As a recording artist I would know. That's why I spend more time than anyone listening and thinking about my own creations. I trust the developers true and honest judgment on the game, but fear that they are being swayed over into a casual mode. Maybe I am missing the genius.
The fact that this thread even exists is surprising. To me the thread is equivalent to something like "Do marines need/want strafe?"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
^this completely
If you're a marine, you can TELL which direction a fade is going to blink. Watch where they face, snap your view to where they will come out of blink, and ignore trying to track them while they're right next to you.
However, if the fade is using shadowstep, they can move in any direction without turning, which can mix up movement and throw off marine aim. Of course the downside is that you'll move a set distance in one of 8 directions, so it's possible for a marine to predict the point you'll reappear.
All about the mind games.
It would lessen the (over)cruciality of second hive, put more emphazine on RTs and open up new strategies on some maps other than fast hive. Most important thing would probably be the fact game would not turn hopeless if you lost your second hive before fades hatched or could not drop it for some reason.
Cant quickly think any downside to this, I suppose blink as it is on 221 would not be good enough could be one.
Reduced the velocity of Blink to encounrage Shadow Step to be used as a Blink acceleration? Or did I get that wrong?
I thought the idea was to encourage the use of ShadowStep to create the additional acceleration for blink?
Although I must admit ShadowStep and Blink are a very powerful combination if you know what you are doing!!
+1
They will also change (decrease) skulk bite and leap to bring Xenocide into the game. And they will change celerity and adrenaline again to give "Hypermutation" a right to exist. Thats innovation.
I actually think blink is easier now that it's one direction... it actually works in your favor if you use it right.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like multidirection. It messed up my fade movement ;/ Just blinking in 1 direction sucks lol.
You could only blink in one direction in NS1... so I guess it feels normal to me, and I've had a lot of time to get used to it.
While I don't really care about shadowstep costing energy or no, it would be easier to understand why it is there in the first place if it cost no energy.
So people can continue to spam it?
It requires TWO different buttons for movement mechanics. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but, like blink, it is not just a "press shift key" ability because it must aimed more precisely than sprinting. This actually makes it less accessible to new players because they have to learn 2 things instead of 1.
It doesn't go up. So there is now no way to quickly move vertically. Well, that takes fade play from 3d down to 2d.
It is a single press ability. There is no finesse to it, no slight gradations, no analog nature. Hard to master? Not in a fun way.
All of the design failures on movement mechanics in NS2 are based on assumptions that good players move the same way as bad players do, only "better" or more precisely. But that's not true, good players actually move <b>differently</b>.
Less accessible, lower skill ceiling, sounds like all ns2 movement. No thanks.
Last but not least, shadowstep is actually <b>broken</b>. Shadowstep often fails to work. You press it, it does nothing. Also it gets stuck on ground geometry because you can't aim it up. And it doesn't play well with jump. How can this possibly be a fundamental movement mechanic of the fade. It's supposed to replace blink for quick acceleration, but instead just leaves you walking around like a tool.
Why didn't you use the blink code for shadowstep code instead of retracing all the failures previously inherent in blink?! This is an unfortunate theme.
*Edit* Original as in pre nerf not point and click teleport mechanic.