ns2_Outpost
DarkBlueArt
Join Date: 2012-09-16 Member: 159584Members
Join Date: 2012-09-16 Member: 159584Members
in Mapping
<div class="IPBDescription">Visiting the Kharaa homeworld</div>Hello there folks,
To begin with, I love this game. I love the gameplay since NS1, the theme, the artwork, the soundtrack, the community. So at the moment it eats up a heavy chunk of my spare free time. And as I have other hobbies like drawing and 3D modeling, I thought why not combine that all in a map.
I already played around with the spark editor (with some minor differences, most editors work the same way anyway), and I am very capable of doing props and textures on my own. (At least, if I get them importet, haha.)
At the moment many community maps are growing, and most of them are really looking awesome.
But there are only two types of maps right now: remakes of NS1 maps and heavily Marine featured maps (like spacestations and -ships).
Nothing wrong about it, really not, but I wanted something moar. :D
So I decided to make somehow a map placed on a Kharaa homeworld planet. The map would feature some landscapes in a kind of open area.
But I am very aware of problems this might cause, gameplay- as well as technical-wise. So I will try my best to trick with the engine a bit.
Summit and Mineshaft are already showing, that you can create "open" and natural looking areas.
I didn't started yet to actually build the map itself, but started with a basic-map layout and some artwork to wrap my head around the look of the map.
Here is the first stuff. I would really like to hear your thoughts, especially about the layout, if this would work, and so on.
For those of you tl;dr:
Custom-map on Kharaa homeworld, any thoughts?
For your information: The map would be placed in a canyon. Marine-base spawns at the left side (north or south) in a human base. Caves are leading to open areas at the middle and the right side (where Aliens' Hive spawn north or south) In the upper left corner you can see the distibution of tech points and ressource points and the ways leading from one to the other.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/3X0sh.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Artwork for two places: hive location "woods" and "boneyard" in the middle.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/m2ni5.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/FyuPk.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I know, it is very ambitious, nuts and megalomaniac. Maybe I wont finish it. But I will have fun trying.
so long
To begin with, I love this game. I love the gameplay since NS1, the theme, the artwork, the soundtrack, the community. So at the moment it eats up a heavy chunk of my spare free time. And as I have other hobbies like drawing and 3D modeling, I thought why not combine that all in a map.
I already played around with the spark editor (with some minor differences, most editors work the same way anyway), and I am very capable of doing props and textures on my own. (At least, if I get them importet, haha.)
At the moment many community maps are growing, and most of them are really looking awesome.
But there are only two types of maps right now: remakes of NS1 maps and heavily Marine featured maps (like spacestations and -ships).
Nothing wrong about it, really not, but I wanted something moar. :D
So I decided to make somehow a map placed on a Kharaa homeworld planet. The map would feature some landscapes in a kind of open area.
But I am very aware of problems this might cause, gameplay- as well as technical-wise. So I will try my best to trick with the engine a bit.
Summit and Mineshaft are already showing, that you can create "open" and natural looking areas.
I didn't started yet to actually build the map itself, but started with a basic-map layout and some artwork to wrap my head around the look of the map.
Here is the first stuff. I would really like to hear your thoughts, especially about the layout, if this would work, and so on.
For those of you tl;dr:
Custom-map on Kharaa homeworld, any thoughts?
For your information: The map would be placed in a canyon. Marine-base spawns at the left side (north or south) in a human base. Caves are leading to open areas at the middle and the right side (where Aliens' Hive spawn north or south) In the upper left corner you can see the distibution of tech points and ressource points and the ways leading from one to the other.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/3X0sh.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Artwork for two places: hive location "woods" and "boneyard" in the middle.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/m2ni5.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/FyuPk.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I know, it is very ambitious, nuts and megalomaniac. Maybe I wont finish it. But I will have fun trying.
so long
Comments
Also do you want me to change your title to read "ns2_Outpost, Visiting the Kharaa homeworld"?
very nice concept keep it up :)
As far as the map goes, the layout is unusual and tough to judge. With the tech points the way they are, each team will quickly expand to their second tech point, and then battle over resource nodes in the middle of the map, kind of like a tug-of-war. You could consider a fifth (neutral, non-start) tech point in the center.
Keep it up, I'm looking forward to your progress. :)
I am glad you like the drawings. Thought they are not as stunning as Corys, but I do my best. :D
<!--quoteo(post=2007683:date=Nov 3 2012, 03:42 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Nov 3 2012, 03:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2007683"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Awesome artwork indeed, damn that skeleton is food for thought isn't it. A Kharaa creature bigger than the Onos... Can't comment on the layout yet, it sure is an interesting one as far as I can see. Maybe a bit hard for aliens to get three hives perhaps :)
Also do you want me to change your title to read "ns2_Outpost, Visiting the Kharaa homeworld"?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I thought the homeworld of an alienrace could be the place for something like that, more impressive than even an Onos.
Something that might let Marines feel fear.
That would be really cool, didn't noticed the "2" slipped away. :D
Are you some kind of good fairy of the mapping forum? Also read your advice in the "open map thread". Thanks for that!
@Flaterectomy: I already thought of this possibilty, the bonyard would have enough room for this. I also thought of making a techpoint without a resnode...
But I liked the tug-of-war idea in this layout, mainly because it would play very different from the other maps.
We will see, I guess.
@Rudy.cz: Thank you a lot for offering me your help. Though I have to look first, how I might manage to get the map properly done. As I am not that experienced in Spark, I am very sure I will meet some problems on the road. If I can fall back to your experience then, that would be great. =D
Okay, enough of talking. I start Spark right now, and I will forge something. Watch out for upgrades. :D
so long
Are you some kind of good fairy of the mapping forum? Also read your advice in the "open map thread". Thanks for that!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LoL
Also if you're going to have lots of "open or rather outdoor areas", the <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=62266" target="_blank">NS1 Outdoor Mapping Guidelines/rules</a> might be a good read up. The NS(2) gameplay doesn't work very well with wide open areas as it favors marines with their ranged weaponry
I've had a go at experimenting a outdoors style map a few weeks ago and its definitely possible, but it needs some good tricks :)
1 tip I would have to share with you is that you should make a cylinder with a radius of 1578, with also a diagonal height of 1578 - then use this to measure your outdoor rooms.
The reason I say a cylinder is because the 1578 distance applies diagonally in all directions, even height.
This will seem quite limiting at first, and while the 1578 is the max view distance for entities(players, structures etc) the geometry and props however seems to have no view distance limit. so you could achieve the illusion of a vast landscape, but using a clever way to fence players in.
Invisible walls for the sky is no problem, but it will take some creativity to block players inside the restricted area without making it feel like giant walls are surrounding them.
I guess a 2-3metre high chainlink fence would look fine - backed up by a 1200~ high invisible wall that would reach the invisible wall in the sky.
tip2.
For the ground and wall geometry its sometimes faster to just make 2 displacement brushes, one that dips in, and one that bumps out - and then just reuse them and modify them as you go, its much faster than creating a new one each time.
Good luck can't wait to see it :)
thanks for the compliments. High expactations are the right pressure I need. :D
And thanks a lot for the tips and advice!
@schkorpio: that is a great idea with the cylinder, I tried it out, and it fits with my experience.
I built a fast and raw layout of the map, to check the functionality and the travelpaths between res points, if the height differences are fine to walk and so on.
My first impression: On the one hand, the map feels a bit small with too short distances and not enough room and paths to navigate (e.g. for the onos).
But on the other hand a major problem occured with entities like cysts and rts popping up and disappearing in the distance. So I already was over max distance...
Though I will try to keep the ideas for the locations, I think I have to come up with some other layout.
Back to the paper. :D
Screenshot of the map layout.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/ehFRb.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
so long
after recognizing some problems with the layout, I had to redo it. So instead of building one long canyon, I split it into several parts and hide the marine base a bit more under stone. Though I still have to test it with an actual map.
But I also did some artwork for another place, the Biolumiscence cave this time. I already like the cave in mineshaft, so I have to make my cave somehow different. I thought of a nice light setup of an open cave, with a lot of contrast between bright and dark areas.
@Shaker: Thanks. I thought about something like this, too. Another ideas are a chrashed container (a failed drop e.g.) or mobile batteries and lamps, which a previous expedtion left.
Here are now the map and the picture.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/PY6hU.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/j1pOr.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Yeah, the LOS definitely needs to be broken up on the left side of the map, theres three very long straight corridors. Some smaller rooms or turns could be added along the way to break the straight LOS along them.
@DarkBlueArt, are you going to be ok with all custom assets needed? I'm busy atm with my own giger themed map, but I could maybe give you a hand down the line a bit with the big plants if you needed help.
and thank you for your replys!
@killer monkey: Oh, yeah definitely! I will break the long hallways down. Just was too lazy to do it in the map layout. :P
And about the crystal: In the upper right Techpoint, a hive location called Crystal Cave, there I want to put a damn lot of big crystals. Thanks for your suggestion, I thought of this too. :D
@Reeke: Yeah, I know that this map will have a lot of custom made props. But I am experienced in 3D modeling, so this part wouldn't be the problem. Maybe I just underestimate the amount of work. :D
But the props will come last. First I need to layout the map, and therefor I will just use the available props. Then it gets into polishing I want to add some custom stuff. If you are still willing to help me then, I will gladly take your helping hand.
Which map is it? Do you have a thread here in the forum? Maybe I can steal.... erm I mean get inspired by some of your stuff. :D
Today I will try out the new map version in Spark. Upgrade maybe this evening.
so long
I believe you might need more of them.
As for tech points, I feel like having a faceoff "2-2" seems like a boring map (or non-creative placement; don't mean to be mean). Moving one for both team a little bit forward (i.e. crystal cave more to the left, and Crew or Sat more to the right) would be needed.
Otherwise, I like the fact that you seem to got an important part already done. Keep it up !
EDIT : Like swap Saw Communications Techpoint with Liquid Storage Ressource point, and add a high vent between the two (with a long detour, like from high-north Liquid Storage (in the corridor) to high-north Sat Communications. By high I mean a ventilation placed high, near the ceiling.
and thank you very much for the comments!
I was really hoping, I could start with the real map actually, but instead I am still lost in planning. It's already the 5th overhaul, and I am still being busy to set the right path lengths and distribution for techpoints and ressource nodes.
@Magneto: Thanks for the kind words. Yeah, I wanted to do something extraordinary (aside the whole hallway and vent thing), so i came up with this. I will try my best!
@Xender: While I overhauled the map several times, I also thought that it has too much "Marine" and too few "Alien" places. Right now I am changing it. Hopefully the LoS wont kill it...
@Redsword: Thank you very much for your suggestions! At the start, I thought the "2-2" situation may be interesting, but you are right, it is not. What should the Marines fight for when they have 2 techpoints and 4 rts easlily defended. Same goes for Aliens.
So right now I am overworking the layout like crazy and will try your suggestions, too.
Up to now, I even didn't thought about vents. I wanted to include them later, after I got a feeling where vents might become usefull.
And what is the "important part" you are talking? At the moment I have the feeling that I haven't done ANYTHING yet. The map is basically still just some lines on the paper. o.O
I hopefully find a solution soon, as I want to finally start the map. :/
so long
so... I hope, I don't annoy anyone by posting random useless stuff. haha
But, I reached a milestone today, so I felt the urge to post it:
The finalized version of the maplayout (lol):
After redesigning especially the alien side of the map, I now came across with this (thx to RedSword for his suggestion).
Techpoint and res nodes are now distributed similiar to summit. With some minor differences. The expansions north/south of both sides are a bit closer together, so that this will be more of a natural expansion. But because every side has only 3 resnodes, expanding towards the 3 middle rts is crucial. This 3 aren't connected to each other on purpose, to avoid heavy map domination by sitting in the center at "The Gate".
I tested the pathlength with cysts and the LoS. Most parts of the map work fine, the other parts need some props for hiding, but this is already planned. For "Woods" I plan to make the place a bit bigger, this is only the main path shown. Vents will come later, although I have some ideas where to place them.
Hopefully tomorrow I can finally do the first rooms. Pictures will follow then.
so long
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/aIAFq.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I prefer your new map looks (but I did prefer your old <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=123190&view=findpost&p=2011592" target="_blank">Liquid Storage</a>, as I think that wall formation was nice; just my opinion)
Red
Also might I suggest you make The Gate more neutral, have the "dirt" spill in alot and have "plant" on walls and stuff so it looks both alien and marine.
thanks for commenting. I finally started blocking parts of the map, thought it is still very raw. Detailed geometry, textures and then props will follow, when I have the the map completly build. Screens down below (First Landing Pad from outside, second Refectory, third SatCom).
@RedSword: For Liquid Storage I have a big round tank in mind, with a catwalk over the water and pipes droping water everywhere. The additional paths got kicked due to scale down the marine "part" of the map. But I hope to get it interesting for you in the new version. ;D
@killer monkey: Yeah, sightblocking for the Hangar is planed, something like Cargo in ns2_veil or Courtyard of ns2_docking. For Plains, I have to admit I don't have quite the idea how to block the sight. Rocks sounds very boring and generic, big trees shall be resevered for Woods. So at the moment, this place is rather plain in my mind, I don't have quite a concept for this... Someone has an idea?
And for The Gate, I thought of this, too. So you get the feeling the environment is slowly creeping into the marine base.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/kV4sr.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/NvEQU.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/awzj8.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
@ Idleray: Thanks a lot, cheering is highly welcomed. :D I definitely need it for getting the map done!
Here are just two signs I am still on it, though not quite as fast as I hoped due to a busy week.
1st: Liquid Storage
2nd: Bioluminescence Cave
so long
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/RF8fs.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/UASV8.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />