The speed you guys can knock up maps is amazing and the fact you have time to do artwork too is insane! This map looks like it might get finished. I can't wait to see it. :)
and thank you a lot for the kind replies! They really keep me going, and I really, really, really want to finish the map, and to play some rounds and have fun on it. Still a long road to go, and actually i don't feel very fast. ;D I will have to see if i get new rooms done till the end of the week for new updates. Hopefully.
today I was quite in a rush, so I blocked three new rooms into shape. Hangar looks still a bit generic, there will come more stuff like rakes, crates and stuff. At first I liked the idea of having multiple rooms above each other, which can be accessed by an elevator. But in real, it feels somehow itchy... when I refain the different rooms, i think I will rework it quite a bit. Chapell is the last one. I really like the cathedral feeling of the room, though I had to change it several times due LoS problems. One issue was, that you could easily shot at an possible hive from the lower stairs. So I added some pillars and arcs to block the view.
So the last room of the marine base is the Weaponary remaining. After this, the Alien part of the map have to be done. Then comes occlusion geometry and lighting. Then playtesting. Then refining the map. Then individuel props.
FlaterectomyNetherlandistanJoin Date: 2005-02-03Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=2026932:date=Nov 17 2012, 06:26 PM:name=DarkBlueArt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DarkBlueArt @ Nov 17 2012, 06:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2026932"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><snip> At first I liked the idea of having multiple rooms above each other, which can be accessed by an elevator. But in real, it feels somehow itchy... <snip><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Rooms above each other are kind of a no-no, as the top rooms would block the commander's view of the lower rooms. Also, unfortunately there are no elevators in the game (yet). You're right to think it feels itchy. ;)
<!--quoteo(post=2026940:date=Nov 17 2012, 05:34 PM:name=Flaterectomy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flaterectomy @ Nov 17 2012, 05:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2026940"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Rooms above each other are kind of a no-no, as the top rooms would block the commander's view of the lower rooms. Also, unfortunately there are no elevators in the game (yet). You're right to think it feels itchy. ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh, haha, I think I phrased it wrong. The rooms actually are not accessible by players and will not be. It only should look like. Like stacked container-flats. And the elevators should not move, too.
I know about the problematic of the commander view. So I am avoiding such things left and right. ;D
I thought of reducing the pace I upload pictures, as there doesn't seem to be such a big interest in looking at some grey, slightly modeled pictures of an unfinished level. But I did some new stuff, for the most part the Weaponary with some stuff in it. And I started with The Gate, though I am not very happy with design of the room itself, as it seems very dull (just a rectangular room with an higher platform for the techpoint...).
And, what I don't have screenshots for, I thought about a concept for the Plain, which might come out cool, but would need a lots of props. The idea would be of some kind of lifeform... like the Cerberi (an concept idea for a alien trap somewhere in this forum), with a lots of tentacles and tendrils, which broke through the Gate (that would also explain why the gate is open!). So the plain would be a huge scrub of living ropes... sounds quite nice, I will have to see how it looks.
And I squeezed a nasty bug with the pathfinding in the Liquid Storage which prevent cyst connections or AI passage through certain parts of the room. That bug cost me a half day of work, as I had to rebuilt some parts.
just to show I wasn't lazy, here are some new screenshots showing the greyboxed alien-areas. I also did the occlusion geometry, so that the map runs rather smooth. But I met a problem, I thought it was eliminated already: In a specific part of the map, a room isn't accessible by AIs (like drifter and MACs) nor can I cyst there. There is nothing funky about the room, plane floors which are connected properly, but for some reason there seems to be a break (at least for pathing). I already remade this room once, which eliminated the problem, but suddenly it is back again. This makes me really a sad panda. :(
actually, the whips and stuff were meant as placeholders. But I really like the idea with the elderwhip, and I will include it to the map. =D
Other than that, I tested the layout with some friends and got some feedback. Some points were: - Map feels too standard with 5 techpoint / 10 resnodes - Match concentrates too much on "the gate" as battleground - Some rooms feel underused like "crew rooms" or "bioluminisence" - "Liquid storage" looks too important for a walk-through room - Some parts feel poorly connected like "crystal cave" or "boneyard" via long boring tubes
So i sat down on my arse, and redid the layout.
Now it's a 4 techpoint map with 1 in the middle and 3 around it. I am still thinking about the spawn-layout...
One way could be Marines always spawns in the middle, Aliens randomly on one of the others. The other way would be Marines and Aliens spawn outside and the middle techpoint remains free. Both give interesting options to play with...
And yeah, the always close spawn is actually intended. At the moment, I feel that close spawns need more tactical play and keeps a match interesting, instead of setting up some rts and maybe a second techpoint and then wait for tech. Maybe just my opinion... but we will see, when I am done with greyboxing the new parts (some parts I will recycle from the old version).
yeah, actually I build this quickly in a graphic programm, in Spark it is much closer. I measured the distances in "cysts" like Flaterectomy did, and it is nearly the same length to all resnodes and techpoints.
<!--quoteo(post=2050809:date=Dec 24 2012, 12:16 PM:name=Rudy.cz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rudy.cz @ Dec 24 2012, 12:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050809"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow, Marine start surrounded by Alien spawns. No idea how this will work, probably will be very though for marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Could be OK depending on the layout of MS. If there are only 2 entrances, it really wouldn't matter where the aliens spawn as they would always have to go through the same two spots.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2012
Actually with the dependency on cyst chains the aliens might be in more trouble, with the marine start being so close to the bottlenecks (any part outside the MS) of the map...
And thank you for your thoughts.... I can't really forsee, how this will play out either. On the one hand, marines could get rushed early, like for example in docking. But with only 2 entrances (and maybe a vent) it should be rather okay to be hold... On the other hand, cyst chains will be rather long from one hive to the other, while marines could break them. I think Aliens should be able to hold at least 2 resnodes left and right of the hive position without much trouble. Expanding to a second hive could become more difficult. But then marines have to defend 3 quite far spreaded locations. So I think overall this layout should lead to some 2 hive vs. 2 cc situations with 3-4 resnodes for every team. Maybe I am just damn wrong and this map will play horrible.... But I am a bit tired of the same 5 tech/10 res diamond- or star-layout maps.
finally, I get some time to get things done. So here are new pictures from the new SatCom and the upper Laboratories (the lower labs will be seen through the window on the left side).
Comments
and thank you a lot for the kind replies! They really keep me going, and I really, really, really want to finish the map, and to play some rounds and have fun on it. Still a long road to go, and actually i don't feel very fast. ;D I will have to see if i get new rooms done till the end of the week for new updates. Hopefully.
So long
today I was quite in a rush, so I blocked three new rooms into shape.
Hangar looks still a bit generic, there will come more stuff like rakes, crates and stuff.
At first I liked the idea of having multiple rooms above each other, which can be accessed by an elevator. But in real, it feels somehow itchy... when I refain the different rooms, i think I will rework it quite a bit.
Chapell is the last one. I really like the cathedral feeling of the room, though I had to change it several times due LoS problems. One issue was, that you could easily shot at an possible hive from the lower stairs. So I added some pillars and arcs to block the view.
So the last room of the marine base is the Weaponary remaining. After this, the Alien part of the map have to be done.
Then comes occlusion geometry and lighting. Then playtesting. Then refining the map. Then individuel props.
Still a lot work to be done. ;D
so long
edit: forgot the pictures o.O
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/qVvXY.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/h1FMp.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/q6lRr.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/n2lJ4.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/VSsMa.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
At first I liked the idea of having multiple rooms above each other, which can be accessed by an elevator. But in real, it feels somehow itchy...
<snip><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Rooms above each other are kind of a no-no, as the top rooms would block the commander's view of the lower rooms. Also, unfortunately there are no elevators in the game (yet). You're right to think it feels itchy. ;)
<!--quoteo(post=2026940:date=Nov 17 2012, 05:34 PM:name=Flaterectomy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flaterectomy @ Nov 17 2012, 05:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2026940"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Rooms above each other are kind of a no-no, as the top rooms would block the commander's view of the lower rooms. Also, unfortunately there are no elevators in the game (yet). You're right to think it feels itchy. ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh, haha, I think I phrased it wrong. The rooms actually are not accessible by players and will not be. It only should look like. Like stacked container-flats. And the elevators should not move, too.
I know about the problematic of the commander view. So I am avoiding such things left and right. ;D
so long
Wow, you are very eager, aren't you?
I thought of reducing the pace I upload pictures, as there doesn't seem to be such a big interest in looking at some grey, slightly modeled pictures of an unfinished level.
But I did some new stuff, for the most part the Weaponary with some stuff in it. And I started with The Gate, though I am not very happy with design of the room itself, as it seems very dull (just a rectangular room with an higher platform for the techpoint...).
And, what I don't have screenshots for, I thought about a concept for the Plain, which might come out cool, but would need a lots of props.
The idea would be of some kind of lifeform... like the Cerberi (an concept idea for a alien trap somewhere in this forum), with a lots of tentacles and tendrils, which broke through the Gate (that would also explain why the gate is open!). So the plain would be a huge scrub of living ropes... sounds quite nice, I will have to see how it looks.
And I squeezed a nasty bug with the pathfinding in the Liquid Storage which prevent cyst connections or AI passage through certain parts of the room. That bug cost me a half day of work, as I had to rebuilt some parts.
So I am still working on. :D
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/eQ5n2.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/flZQz.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/M73TA.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/IKuqr.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
it should be easier to duplicate a face and then use the displacement tool on it, leaving behind the original greybox for your occlusion.
just to show I wasn't lazy, here are some new screenshots showing the greyboxed alien-areas. I also did the occlusion geometry, so that the map runs rather smooth.
But I met a problem, I thought it was eliminated already:
In a specific part of the map, a room isn't accessible by AIs (like drifter and MACs) nor can I cyst there. There is nothing funky about the room, plane floors which are connected properly, but for some reason there seems to be a break (at least for pathing). I already remade this room once, which eliminated the problem, but suddenly it is back again.
This makes me really a sad panda. :(
Anyone got an idea?
Anyways, here the shots:
Woods
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/Q4eNc.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Crystal Cave
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/8jIV4.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Boneyard
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/SSnhx.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Remade The Gate
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/zLw18.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
actually, the whips and stuff were meant as placeholders. But I really like the idea with the elderwhip, and I will include it to the map. =D
Other than that, I tested the layout with some friends and got some feedback.
Some points were:
- Map feels too standard with 5 techpoint / 10 resnodes
- Match concentrates too much on "the gate" as battleground
- Some rooms feel underused like "crew rooms" or "bioluminisence"
- "Liquid storage" looks too important for a walk-through room
- Some parts feel poorly connected like "crystal cave" or "boneyard" via long boring tubes
So i sat down on my arse, and redid the layout.
Now it's a 4 techpoint map with 1 in the middle and 3 around it.
I am still thinking about the spawn-layout...
One way could be Marines always spawns in the middle, Aliens randomly on one of the others.
The other way would be Marines and Aliens spawn outside and the middle techpoint remains free.
Both give interesting options to play with...
And yeah, the always close spawn is actually intended. At the moment, I feel that close spawns need more tactical play and keeps a match interesting, instead of setting up some rts and maybe a second techpoint and then wait for tech.
Maybe just my opinion... but we will see, when I am done with greyboxing the new parts (some parts I will recycle from the old version).
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/JAZIE.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
So long
yeah, actually I build this quickly in a graphic programm, in Spark it is much closer. I measured the distances in "cysts" like Flaterectomy did, and it is nearly the same length to all resnodes and techpoints.
Could be OK depending on the layout of MS. If there are only 2 entrances, it really wouldn't matter where the aliens spawn as they would always have to go through the same two spots.
And thank you for your thoughts.... I can't really forsee, how this will play out either. On the one hand, marines could get rushed early, like for example in docking. But with only 2 entrances (and maybe a vent) it should be rather okay to be hold...
On the other hand, cyst chains will be rather long from one hive to the other, while marines could break them. I think Aliens should be able to hold at least 2 resnodes left and right of the hive position without much trouble. Expanding to a second hive could become more difficult. But then marines have to defend 3 quite far spreaded locations.
So I think overall this layout should lead to some 2 hive vs. 2 cc situations with 3-4 resnodes for every team.
Maybe I am just damn wrong and this map will play horrible....
But I am a bit tired of the same 5 tech/10 res diamond- or star-layout maps.
So long
finally, I get some time to get things done. So here are new pictures from the new SatCom and the upper Laboratories (the lower labs will be seen through the window on the left side).
so long
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/Fg4BD.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/3d0yT.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/IQRvo.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/hDFRt.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
And on that note... Please get us some better texture tools Steve, pretty please :P
some new pics for you:
Liquid Storage 2.0
Lower Lab
Waterfalls
so long
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/kimcS.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/vbwBK.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/6Uw9A.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/6xO5h.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/ndpD0.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/XnDhT.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />