Expanding on that idea, make it a slot two weapon that replaces pistol and welders. up it to 3 per buy. Maybe have it not like a demolition-type item, but more like an anti-alien type item. 2.5 ft isn't a huge blast radius so maybe make it an explode on enemy contact/bounce on miss type of grenade designed for punishing sloppy and predictable alien attackers, while still not being useful for area of denial attacks.
GL spam is annoying enough already. :P Marines should have to put themselves at risk to advance. More grenades just means less ability for aliens to hide in corners waiting to ambush or leap out of vents, like they should be doing.
They were a powerful, but sparse commodity. And the windup time meant you had to have the jump on the Aliens to lob them. But man, if you landed them, Skulks lost a decent chunk of health. And once you used the 2, you're done.
The biggest thing though was how it rounded out your arsenal, providing more variety imo.
<!--quoteo(post=2013438:date=Nov 6 2012, 06:15 PM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (schkorpio @ Nov 6 2012, 06:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2013438"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->they were great for vent clearing in ns1.
if you made it so you had to buy 1 grenade for say 5 res it would be cool<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Carrying just one grenade that goes out in a flash wouldn't be very good on it's own. I've seen a similar thread requesting to reduce the number of mines you get. Personally, I don't think that's a bad idea, but it shouldn't be so restrictive either.
Let's say you get 1 grenade for 5 res, but can buy up to three for a total of 15 res. What about that?
<!--quoteo(post=2013493:date=Nov 6 2012, 06:59 PM:name=Squishpoke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squishpoke @ Nov 6 2012, 06:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2013493"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The GL is good enough, having hand grenades would be redundant<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2013493:date=Nov 6 2012, 06:59 PM:name=Squishpoke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squishpoke @ Nov 6 2012, 06:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2013493"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The GL is good enough, having hand grenades would be redundant<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Having a pistol and a rifle is redundant with that logic...
The idea is to have clear roles between players, to foster teamwork.
I don't know about you, but I'd think having hand grenades AND a shotgun or MG would be too good to pass up. I'd never use GL again. You get a lot more flexibility with that, and I'm sure many players would agree. As a result, you'd probably have generic "flexible loadouts" for everyone, and thus put less focus on teamwork. You'd no longer have to worry about a good mix of weapons in your unit, or worry about making sure your GL guy is in the proper position to respond to threats, or worry about having MG/SG backup for your GL guys during a push. Basically, fights will become a matter of just sending some generic marines to the front lines until you get Exos.
I mean, we might as well ask for underbarrel shotguns/ attachable flamethrowers while we are at it.
regarding anyone that says GL makes this useless, you are wrong. There is a clear economical difference between a entire tech tree to GL and one research from the start default armory.
Secondly the hand grenades are essential however no one would purchase them if they costed something. They should cost 20 research and give a marine two each life regardless of what they buy. Make it slot 4 (same with mines) Grenades should do 150 (in ns1 they did 120) and have a smaller radius than the GL nades.
This research is great as it supports marines doing early pushes preventing aliens from over expanding if they got greedy. If this doesnt get put in it basically forces the marines to play turtle mode and never attack untill they get exo, GL and jetpacks. (which is currently the game's status)
<!--quoteo(post=2013868:date=Nov 7 2012, 02:57 AM:name=Squishpoke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squishpoke @ Nov 7 2012, 02:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2013868"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The idea is to have clear roles between players, to foster teamwork.
I don't know about you, but I'd think having hand grenades AND a shotgun or MG would be too good to pass up. I'd never use GL again. You get a lot more flexibility with that, and I'm sure many players would agree. As a result, you'd probably have generic "flexible loadouts" for everyone, and thus put less focus on teamwork. You'd no longer have to worry about a good mix of weapons in your unit, or worry about making sure your GL guy is in the proper position to respond to threats, or worry about having MG/SG backup for your GL guys during a push. Basically, fights will become a matter of just sending some generic marines to the front lines until you get Exos.
I mean, we might as well ask for underbarrel shotguns/ attachable flamethrowers while we are at it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You never answered me. Basically you're saying NS1 is a redundant unbalanced turd.
As long as they're on the advanced armory and cost an appreciable amount of res. to unlock, I'm not opposed to the idea, although I don't really see the appeal.
<!--quoteo(post=2013900:date=Nov 7 2012, 10:12 PM:name=SurviveToGame)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SurviveToGame @ Nov 7 2012, 10:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2013900"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What about like a STUN GRENADE Stuns the onus stomp and slows the fades blinks<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> its called the mac emp it saps energy
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2012
Hand Grenades were OP in NS1.
There is a clear separation in NS2. If every marine was equipped with HG's, then GL's would not be used. A squad of four marines armed with up to 3 grenades each, doing 275 damage (2.1x the damage of a single grenade) all armed with SG's. That would be like having 4 SG's and 2 GL's among 4 people, that is way OP, and people would not bother with GL's.
To the nubs who use the HG's were in NS1 so they should be in NS2 argument - Focus was in NS1, but it broke NS2 completely, so it was removed. NS1 is not NS2, NS2 is not NS1.
If you can't work out how unbalancing HG's would be in NS2, then I suggest you go and sit down and play with the numbers, figure out the tech tree's and all it's costs, and come up with a solution that doesn't make HG's OP. If you do that, you will realise you actually need to make them worthless to fit them into NS2. I played NS1 from 2003, just in case you were wondering, although I must point out, just because you say you played a game, doesn't mean you have the faintest clue about how game design and balance works..
Honestly my only memories of hand grenades being used commonly in NS1 was in CO (since you'd get one everytime you spawned). In CA you'd only "need" them to kill defensive blockades...and thats not hard to deal with without them
<!--quoteo(post=2014690:date=Nov 7 2012, 05:17 PM:name=Soul_Rider)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soul_Rider @ Nov 7 2012, 05:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2014690"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hand Grenades were OP in NS1.
There is a clear separation in NS2. If every marine was equipped with HG's, then GL's would not be used. A squad of four marines armed with up to 3 grenades each, doing 275 damage (2.1x the damage of a single grenade) all armed with SG's. That would be like having 4 SG's and 2 GL's among 4 people, that is way OP, and people would not bother with GL's.
To the nubs who use the HG's were in NS1 so they should be in NS2 argument - Focus was in NS1, but it broke NS2 completely, so it was removed. NS1 is not NS2, NS2 is not NS1.
If you can't work out how unbalancing HG's would be in NS2, then I suggest you go and sit down and play with the numbers, figure out the tech tree's and all it's costs, and come up with a solution that doesn't make HG's OP. If you do that, you will realise you actually need to make them worthless to fit them into NS2. I played NS1 from 2003, just in case you were wondering, although I must point out, just because you say you played a game, doesn't mean you have the faintest clue about how game design and balance works..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If so much has changed since NS2 from NS1, than how is 'hand grenades will not work because they were in NS1' a sound argument? That's the exact same as 'hand grenades will work because they were in NS1' as well.
If the developers agreed that it was a good idea, they could make it work. It's their project after all. It's not impossible.
<!--quoteo(post=2014602:date=Nov 7 2012, 03:12 PM:name=grizzlyyy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (grizzlyyy @ Nov 7 2012, 03:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2014602"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm talking to you. Have you even played NS1? Or are you just another noob coming onto the forums to try and make NS2 casual.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have never even mentioned NS1. I stated my reasons of why I think hand grenades won't fit into NS2.
Instead of tossing off ad-hominem and red-herring fallacies, why don't you actually use logic and form a coherent argument?
You can start by explaining the positive aspects of hand grenades in NS1 and how they can apply to NS2. You know, rather than firing off petty insults like a child.
<!--quoteo(post=2014916:date=Nov 7 2012, 08:20 PM:name=Squishpoke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squishpoke @ Nov 7 2012, 08:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2014916"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have never even mentioned NS1. I stated my reasons of why I think hand grenades won't fit into NS2.
Instead of tossing off ad-hominem and red-herring fallacies, why don't you actually use logic and form a coherent argument?
You can start by explaining the positive aspects of hand grenades in NS1 and how they can apply to NS2. You know, rather than firing off petty insults like a child.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But why must it be the NS1 hand grenade? Why not think of something new that works for NS2 instead of trying to look back at old ideas?
<!--quoteo(post=2014926:date=Nov 7 2012, 08:30 PM:name=Blindga)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blindga @ Nov 7 2012, 08:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2014926"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But why must it be the NS1 hand grenade? Why not think of something new that works for NS2 instead of trying to look back at old ideas?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Someone mentioned a stun grenade, and I think that could be interesting.
<!--quoteo(post=2014958:date=Nov 7 2012, 08:56 PM:name=Squishpoke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squishpoke @ Nov 7 2012, 08:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2014958"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Someone mentioned a stun grenade, and I think that could be interesting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
how about something like this? " <b>Concussion Grenade (Requires Armory research).</b> These small, round, explode on contact hand grenades were originally designed for anti-riot purposed back on earth, but they have been re-designed and re-worked to combat the Kharaa threat. These miniature charges have been fitted with a powerful concussive shockwave generator capable of staggering even the sturdiest of beasts.
Stats: Cost- 15 res Number- 2 per purchase (Additional purchase required for more ammo) Damage- 0/concussion (non-lethal, stuns enemies.) Stun on blast- 2.5s (hit by blast radius.) Stun on contact- 5s (direct hit with thrown grenade.) Radius- 3 meters (A little less than a GL grenade by my guess.) Rate of Fire- 1 every 2.5s Delay- 0.5s
When thrown, these grenades generate a ear shattering burst of force that stuns Kharaa life forms and leaves them dazed and slowed. It's not capable of dealing damage on it's own, but it slows enemies and paves the way for attacks. Even the mighty Onos or agile Fade can be stopped in their tracks with one of these. But if used carelessly, it will leave you open. With half a second in which you are defenseless after a throw and another two seconds to push the button and wind up another toss, good aim and careful timing are needed for the best effect. " What about that?
Comments
They were a powerful, but sparse commodity. And the windup time meant you had to have the jump on the Aliens to lob them. But man, if you landed them, Skulks lost a decent chunk of health. And once you used the 2, you're done.
The biggest thing though was how it rounded out your arsenal, providing more variety imo.
if you made it so you had to buy 1 grenade for say 5 res it would be cool
if you made it so you had to buy 1 grenade for say 5 res it would be cool<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Carrying just one grenade that goes out in a flash wouldn't be very good on it's own. I've seen a similar thread requesting to reduce the number of mines you get. Personally, I don't think that's a bad idea, but it shouldn't be so restrictive either.
Let's say you get 1 grenade for 5 res, but can buy up to three for a total of 15 res. What about that?
Then NS1 is redundant?
Having a pistol and a rifle is redundant with that logic...
What's wrong with more boom?
I don't know about you, but I'd think having hand grenades AND a shotgun or MG would be too good to pass up. I'd never use GL again. You get a lot more flexibility with that, and I'm sure many players would agree. As a result, you'd probably have generic "flexible loadouts" for everyone, and thus put less focus on teamwork. You'd no longer have to worry about a good mix of weapons in your unit, or worry about making sure your GL guy is in the proper position to respond to threats, or worry about having MG/SG backup for your GL guys during a push. Basically, fights will become a matter of just sending some generic marines to the front lines until you get Exos.
I mean, we might as well ask for underbarrel shotguns/ attachable flamethrowers while we are at it.
Secondly the hand grenades are essential however no one would purchase them if they costed something. They should cost 20 research and give a marine two each life regardless of what they buy. Make it slot 4 (same with mines) Grenades should do 150 (in ns1 they did 120) and have a smaller radius than the GL nades.
This research is great as it supports marines doing early pushes preventing aliens from over expanding if they got greedy. If this doesnt get put in it basically forces the marines to play turtle mode and never attack untill they get exo, GL and jetpacks. (which is currently the game's status)
Stuns the onus stomp and slows the fades blinks
I don't know about you, but I'd think having hand grenades AND a shotgun or MG would be too good to pass up. I'd never use GL again. You get a lot more flexibility with that, and I'm sure many players would agree. As a result, you'd probably have generic "flexible loadouts" for everyone, and thus put less focus on teamwork. You'd no longer have to worry about a good mix of weapons in your unit, or worry about making sure your GL guy is in the proper position to respond to threats, or worry about having MG/SG backup for your GL guys during a push. Basically, fights will become a matter of just sending some generic marines to the front lines until you get Exos.
I mean, we might as well ask for underbarrel shotguns/ attachable flamethrowers while we are at it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You never answered me. Basically you're saying NS1 is a redundant unbalanced turd.
I wasn't talking to you.
I'm talking to you. Have you even played NS1? Or are you just another noob coming onto the forums to try and make NS2 casual.
Stuns the onus stomp and slows the fades blinks<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
its called the mac emp it saps energy
There is a clear separation in NS2. If every marine was equipped with HG's, then GL's would not be used. A squad of four marines armed with up to 3 grenades each, doing 275 damage (2.1x the damage of a single grenade) all armed with SG's. That would be like having 4 SG's and 2 GL's among 4 people, that is way OP, and people would not bother with GL's.
To the nubs who use the HG's were in NS1 so they should be in NS2 argument - Focus was in NS1, but it broke NS2 completely, so it was removed. NS1 is not NS2, NS2 is not NS1.
If you can't work out how unbalancing HG's would be in NS2, then I suggest you go and sit down and play with the numbers, figure out the tech tree's and all it's costs, and come up with a solution that doesn't make HG's OP. If you do that, you will realise you actually need to make them worthless to fit them into NS2. I played NS1 from 2003, just in case you were wondering, although I must point out, just because you say you played a game, doesn't mean you have the faintest clue about how game design and balance works..
There is a clear separation in NS2. If every marine was equipped with HG's, then GL's would not be used. A squad of four marines armed with up to 3 grenades each, doing 275 damage (2.1x the damage of a single grenade) all armed with SG's. That would be like having 4 SG's and 2 GL's among 4 people, that is way OP, and people would not bother with GL's.
To the nubs who use the HG's were in NS1 so they should be in NS2 argument - Focus was in NS1, but it broke NS2 completely, so it was removed. NS1 is not NS2, NS2 is not NS1.
If you can't work out how unbalancing HG's would be in NS2, then I suggest you go and sit down and play with the numbers, figure out the tech tree's and all it's costs, and come up with a solution that doesn't make HG's OP. If you do that, you will realise you actually need to make them worthless to fit them into NS2. I played NS1 from 2003, just in case you were wondering, although I must point out, just because you say you played a game, doesn't mean you have the faintest clue about how game design and balance works..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If so much has changed since NS2 from NS1, than how is 'hand grenades will not work because they were in NS1' a sound argument? That's the exact same as 'hand grenades will work because they were in NS1' as well.
If the developers agreed that it was a good idea, they could make it work. It's their project after all. It's not impossible.
I have never even mentioned NS1. I stated my reasons of why I think hand grenades won't fit into NS2.
Instead of tossing off ad-hominem and red-herring fallacies, why don't you actually use logic and form a coherent argument?
You can start by explaining the positive aspects of hand grenades in NS1 and how they can apply to NS2. You know, rather than firing off petty insults like a child.
Instead of tossing off ad-hominem and red-herring fallacies, why don't you actually use logic and form a coherent argument?
You can start by explaining the positive aspects of hand grenades in NS1 and how they can apply to NS2. You know, rather than firing off petty insults like a child.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But why must it be the NS1 hand grenade? Why not think of something new that works for NS2 instead of trying to look back at old ideas?
Someone mentioned a stun grenade, and I think that could be interesting.
how about something like this?
"
<b>Concussion Grenade (Requires Armory research).</b> These small, round, explode on contact hand grenades were originally designed for anti-riot purposed back on earth, but they have been re-designed and re-worked to combat the Kharaa threat. These miniature charges have been fitted with a powerful concussive shockwave generator capable of staggering even the sturdiest of beasts.
Stats:
Cost- 15 res
Number- 2 per purchase (Additional purchase required for more ammo)
Damage- 0/concussion (non-lethal, stuns enemies.)
Stun on blast- 2.5s (hit by blast radius.)
Stun on contact- 5s (direct hit with thrown grenade.)
Radius- 3 meters (A little less than a GL grenade by my guess.)
Rate of Fire- 1 every 2.5s
Delay- 0.5s
When thrown, these grenades generate a ear shattering burst of force that stuns Kharaa life forms and leaves them dazed and slowed. It's not capable of dealing damage on it's own, but it slows enemies and paves the way for attacks. Even the mighty Onos or agile Fade can be stopped in their tracks with one of these. But if used carelessly, it will leave you open. With half a second in which you are defenseless after a throw and another two seconds to push the button and wind up another toss, good aim and careful timing are needed for the best effect.
"
What about that?