<!--quoteo(post=2030820:date=Nov 20 2012, 06:34 PM:name=MaximumSquid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaximumSquid @ Nov 20 2012, 06:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2030820"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Did anyone see if you can attack unbuilt power nodes?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Looks like you can't. You can see the 'life' it's at, so you can tell it has almost been built but attacking it won't effect it.
- Fixed skulk being able to move on floors.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Floor is lava mode! Needs a mod asap. :D
On a more serious note, my performance has just gone down the drain since this patch came out. Getting like 50ms waiting for render thread, when it used to be 0-5. Not really worth playing unless I want to gorge right now.
<!--quoteo(post=2030790:date=Nov 21 2012, 02:09 AM:name=grizzlyyy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (grizzlyyy @ Nov 21 2012, 02:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2030790"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yay more Alien nerfs! *barf*<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
since 230, aliens have still been winning 67% of the time on pub servers according to ns2stats.
but 230 really doesn't feel so imbalanced when i was playing it yesterday... i won most of my games, whichever team i was on, since i usually get pretty amazing KDR's compared to the other players. i figured that it was because i was able to make a larger impact on the game in 230 (before i would make a large impact and then become obsolete once the tres onos came out).
balance seems like it's in a good spot... maybe 231 found a couple of nasty bugs? seems the most logical reason to release a new patch so soon.
Why is updating the game 1 or 2 times a week made out to be such an inconvenience for some people?
Nowadays people just love to moan about something, it's almost as though people are complaining about them continuing to work on the game. And that's a bad thing how exactly?
<!--quoteo(post=2031075:date=Nov 21 2012, 01:08 PM:name=Dusteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dusteh @ Nov 21 2012, 01:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031075"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why is updating the game 1 or 2 times a week made out to be such an inconvenience for some people?
Nowadays people just love to moan about something, it's almost as though people are complaining about them continuing to work on the game. And that's a bad thing how exactly?
Quit yer moanin!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2031075:date=Nov 21 2012, 08:08 AM:name=Dusteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dusteh @ Nov 21 2012, 08:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031075"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why is updating the game 1 or 2 times a week made out to be such an inconvenience for some people?
Nowadays people just love to moan about something, it's almost as though people are complaining about them continuing to work on the game. And that's a bad thing how exactly?
Quit yer moanin!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
People need to play the builds and let new strats develop over a few days before they start crying. I bet most people cry before even playing a single game!!! I saw so much crying when build 230 was posted it was unreal. I played a few hrs last night and it seemed fine! Give it a few more days and well see how it really is. Let people adapt to it.
That said..I do hope the patches involving balance slow down a lot We don't need balance changes every week. I would much rather have the game as is (balance wise) for the next month and them test a few *small* balance changes over that period of time playing hundreds of games and how what they are doing really affects things. <b>Releasing a balance change you KNOW works well is way better then releasing a balance change you HOPE works well</b>...Baby steps plz.
I think a larger server sample size is needed for stat checking. These win/lose figures should be coming down, not going up. Especially with aliens getting all the nerfs.
Why not just get rid of the regen continuing until you are full health even if you are getting hit? Surely that's a bug. Would be a much better fix than nerfing regen in combat duration.
Patches without any release notes, release notes leaving out everything related to gameplay and balance, release notes with errors, release notes not being corrected or updated or completeness, release notes being published <i>after</i> the patch is rolled out, release notes not being consistently posted on Steam...
It takes time to document changes. Would I really want to postpone a patch, maybe a whole 2 hours to 2 days just for a complete and correct release note sent out on all the proper channels at the same time or slightly before the time of the release?
<!--quoteo(post=2031094:date=Nov 21 2012, 09:33 AM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Nov 21 2012, 09:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031094"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why not just get rid of the regen continuing until you are full health even if you are getting hit? Surely that's a bug. Would be a much better fix than nerfing regen in combat duration.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Have you actually seen that happen? I certainly never have.
<!--quoteo(post=2031106:date=Nov 21 2012, 09:59 AM:name=lwf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lwf @ Nov 21 2012, 09:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031106"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Patches without any release notes, release notes leaving out everything related to gameplay and balance, release notes with errors, release notes not being corrected or updated or completeness, release notes being published <i>after</i> the patch is rolled out, release notes not being consistently posted on Steam...
It takes time to document changes. Would I really want to postpone a patch, maybe a whole 2 hours to 2 days just for a complete and correct release note sent out on all the proper channels at the same time or slightly before the time of the release?
Yes. This is incredibly sloppy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree, this is getting ridiculous. 229 comes out missing an entire portion of the changelog, which is never fixed. 230 comes out listing erroneous false changes, and at least one undocumented change(walljump), never fixed. 231 comes out without even an announcement all night. What is going on with this stuff? It's just plain unprofessional, something needs to change.
<!--quoteo(post=2031121:date=Nov 21 2012, 09:16 AM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Nov 21 2012, 09:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031121"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree, this is getting ridiculous. 229 comes out missing an entire portion of the changelog, which is never fixed. 230 comes out listing erroneous false changes, and at least one undocumented change(walljump), never fixed. 231 comes out without even an announcement all night. What is going on with this stuff? It's just plain unprofessional, something needs to change.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. I work for a hardware and software company and we release new buiilds of software about every month (or less) that contain bug fixes or new features and to release software changes with what appears to be such little testing and documentation on what changed is driving me nuts.
Zek or any other person involved in testing about how many games are played on total that contain finalized balance changes that make it into the game on average?
<!--quoteo(post=2031126:date=Nov 21 2012, 09:23 AM:name=current1y)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (current1y @ Nov 21 2012, 09:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031126"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Agreed. I work for a hardware and software company and we release new buiilds of software about every month (or less) that contain bug fixes or new features and to release software changes with what appears to be such little testing and documentation on what changed is driving me nuts.
Zek or any other person involved in testing about how many games are played on total that contain finalized balance changes that make it into the game on average?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Zek can speak from his own experience, but it seems this post has suddenly become relevant. It, unfortunately, will not make you feel any better.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am really curious to know how they go about writing the changelogs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think Hugh has said in the past that he goes by everyone's office - after the patch is out - and asks them to remember what they fixed.
<!--quoteo(post=2031127:date=Nov 21 2012, 09:27 AM:name=RedDragon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RedDragon @ Nov 21 2012, 09:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031127"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Zek can speak from his own experience, but it seems this post has suddenly become relevant. It, unfortunately, will not make you feel any better.
bullets 1, 2, 4, and 6 if true are scary and quite frankly Insane. With the Regen and crag buff we got I kinda wouldn't doubt some of them being true. It also makes sense why a well documented list of <i></i>correct<i></i> patch notes haven't been released at time of actual release. If some of those are true (particularity the first one) it would make sense why stuff is simply incorrect or omitted.
to the devs..once you feel you have a semi stable balanced build please just slow down on balance changes. Delaying a fix simply a couple weeks to allow for proper testing will benefit every one in the long run. You just create more work for yourself in the end if things are rushed. I really like NS2 even as it is now and I am really looking forward for what is to come. I've put 100 hrs into the game since release (sad i know) lol.
<!--quoteo(post=2031162:date=Nov 21 2012, 11:02 AM:name=Cee Colon Slash)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cee Colon Slash @ Nov 21 2012, 11:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031162"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think Hugh has said in the past that he goes by everyone's office - after the patch is out - and asks them to remember what they fixed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's pretty much what I suspect is the case(though they don't have offices), which is the worst changelog-writing process I've ever heard of. Developers should be responsible for documenting their changes as they make them. Then compiling them into a single user-friendly list is a simple matter. Hell, just throw up a google doc and have everybody edit it, it's trivially easy.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited November 2012
Anywhere I've ever written code ( including for NS1 ) the changelog was simply compiled from the source-control commit history. Sure, someone with a grasp of the english language is required to translate the geek-heavy commit log into reasonable English, but if developers aren't documenting the changes properly in their commits then the opportunity to document a change most accurately has been lost.
you guys have never heard of ninja changes before?
i think every notable developer has made ninja changes in the past.
the problem with ns2 patchnotes is that we get beta/charlie balance mod notes which don't necessarily correspond to the follow up release patch notes... kinda confusing.
it's not such a big deal though, as the notable changes are either super obvious (walljump, camo) or listed in the notes (regen, tres onos).
<!--quoteo(post=2031291:date=Nov 21 2012, 05:57 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Nov 21 2012, 05:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031291"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's pretty much what I suspect is the case(though they don't have offices), which is the worst changelog-writing process I've ever heard of. Developers should be responsible for documenting their changes as they make them. Then compiling them into a single user-friendly list is a simple matter. Hell, just throw up a google doc and have everybody edit it, it's trivially easy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Couldn't agree more with you. There's a lot of gameplay changes and map changes that haven't been mentioned, such as skulk's movement and that horribly placed stalagmite in Mineshaft.
If there's just a slight change then note it. It makes it easier for us, the community, to check out these changes and create a discussion around it.
Dunno what they changed, but I was experiencing FPS drops whenever people start firing weapons. Exos in particular, my FPS tanks to ~30. Also experiencing some kind of micro-lag or hitching when I fire a shotgun.
Anyone else experiencing similar or am I just going nuts?
<!--quoteo(post=2031351:date=Nov 21 2012, 06:07 PM:name=rantology)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rantology @ Nov 21 2012, 06:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031351"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Dunno what they changed, but I was experiencing FPS drops whenever people start firing weapons. Exos in particular, my FPS tanks to ~30. Also experiencing some kind of micro-lag or hitching when I fire a shotgun.
Anyone else experiencing similar or am I just going nuts?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i definitely noticed a framerate drop when firing an exo weapon today... instant 60 fps down to 20.
BUT i haven't used exo for like 2 weeks before that, so can't confirm whether it was introduced in a later patch.
I'm surprised there is still no news of b231 going out, even though it's nearly noon over there..
Delayed changelog, okay. But no announcement of b231 until after everyone's been playing it for 12+ hours? o.O
Otherwise, I did notice a few changes in the maps, which was a nice bonus. I have no idea if that shipped with 230 or 231, though. Particularly, it seems Mineshaft lost a res node or two, which is great, because that map is ridiculous with something like 13 nodes. I was holding 4 as a khamm (which is normally not a bad place to be for aliens) and wondering how the heck the marines kept throwing exo's at us. Then I went and counted the nodes on the map. Ugh.
Our change logs are gathered from our SVN commits, which we tag in special ways if we want them to show up in the change log. I didn't make a change log post because 231 was a hot fix patch for a small issue with ns2_tram that was introduced in 230.
Our change logs are gathered from our SVN commits, which we tag in special ways if we want them to show up in the change log. I didn't make a change log post because 231 was a hot fix patch for a small issue with ns2_tram that was introduced in 230. It's not a very interesting patch.
Comments
Looks like you can't. You can see the 'life' it's at, so you can tell it has almost been built but attacking it won't effect it.
Did anyone see if you can attack unbuilt power nodes?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You still can't. Seeing marine coms just socket every power node right away now, since there's not really any downside.
<!--quoteo(post=2030878:date=Nov 20 2012, 09:57 PM:name=NeoRussia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoRussia @ Nov 20 2012, 09:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2030878"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>B231 Changes</b>
<u>Fix</u>
- Fixed skulk being able to move on floors.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Floor is lava mode! Needs a mod asap. :D
On a more serious note, my performance has just gone down the drain since this patch came out. Getting like 50ms waiting for render thread, when it used to be 0-5. Not really worth playing unless I want to gorge right now.
since 230, aliens have still been winning 67% of the time on pub servers according to ns2stats.
but 230 really doesn't feel so imbalanced when i was playing it yesterday... i won most of my games, whichever team i was on, since i usually get pretty amazing KDR's compared to the other players. i figured that it was because i was able to make a larger impact on the game in 230 (before i would make a large impact and then become obsolete once the tres onos came out).
balance seems like it's in a good spot... maybe 231 found a couple of nasty bugs? seems the most logical reason to release a new patch so soon.
Workshop mod plz.
Nowadays people just love to moan about something, it's almost as though people are complaining about them continuing to work on the game. And that's a bad thing how exactly?
Quit yer moanin!
228 53% (2000)
229 61% (3500)
230 63% (350)
231 67% (200)
Stats from <a href="http://ns2stats.org/" target="_blank">http://ns2stats.org/</a>
Nowadays people just love to moan about something, it's almost as though people are complaining about them continuing to work on the game. And that's a bad thing how exactly?
Quit yer moanin!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol indeed.
"why are you moaning?"
"BECAUSE PATCH!!!!!!!!!!"
Where are the modders hiding?!?
Nowadays people just love to moan about something, it's almost as though people are complaining about them continuing to work on the game. And that's a bad thing how exactly?
Quit yer moanin!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
People need to play the builds and let new strats develop over a few days before they start crying. I bet most people cry before even playing a single game!!! I saw so much crying when build 230 was posted it was unreal. I played a few hrs last night and it seemed fine! Give it a few more days and well see how it really is. Let people adapt to it.
That said..I do hope the patches involving balance slow down a lot We don't need balance changes every week. I would much rather have the game as is (balance wise) for the next month and them test a few *small* balance changes over that period of time playing hundreds of games and how what they are doing really affects things. <b>Releasing a balance change you KNOW works well is way better then releasing a balance change you HOPE works well</b>...Baby steps plz.
It takes time to document changes. Would I really want to postpone a patch, maybe a whole 2 hours to 2 days just for a complete and correct release note sent out on all the proper channels at the same time or slightly before the time of the release?
Yes. This is incredibly sloppy.
Have you actually seen that happen? I certainly never have.
It takes time to document changes. Would I really want to postpone a patch, maybe a whole 2 hours to 2 days just for a complete and correct release note sent out on all the proper channels at the same time or slightly before the time of the release?
Yes. This is incredibly sloppy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, this is getting ridiculous. 229 comes out missing an entire portion of the changelog, which is never fixed. 230 comes out listing erroneous false changes, and at least one undocumented change(walljump), never fixed. 231 comes out without even an announcement all night. What is going on with this stuff? It's just plain unprofessional, something needs to change.
Agreed. I work for a hardware and software company and we release new buiilds of software about every month (or less) that contain bug fixes or new features and to release software changes with what appears to be such little testing and documentation on what changed is driving me nuts.
Zek or any other person involved in testing about how many games are played on total that contain finalized balance changes that make it into the game on average?
Zek or any other person involved in testing about how many games are played on total that contain finalized balance changes that make it into the game on average?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Zek can speak from his own experience, but it seems this post has suddenly become relevant. It, unfortunately, will not make you feel any better.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=124550&view=findpost&p=2027982" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...t&p=2027982</a>
I think Hugh has said in the past that he goes by everyone's office - after the patch is out - and asks them to remember what they fixed.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=124550&view=findpost&p=2027982" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...t&p=2027982</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
bullets 1, 2, 4, and 6 if true are scary and quite frankly Insane. With the Regen and crag buff we got I kinda wouldn't doubt some of them being true. It also makes sense why a well documented list of <i></i>correct<i></i> patch notes haven't been released at time of actual release. If some of those are true (particularity the first one) it would make sense why stuff is simply incorrect or omitted.
to the devs..once you feel you have a semi stable balanced build please just slow down on balance changes. Delaying a fix simply a couple weeks to allow for proper testing will benefit every one in the long run. You just create more work for yourself in the end if things are rushed. I really like NS2 even as it is now and I am really looking forward for what is to come. I've put 100 hrs into the game since release (sad i know) lol.
That's pretty much what I suspect is the case(though they don't have offices), which is the worst changelog-writing process I've ever heard of. Developers should be responsible for documenting their changes as they make them. Then compiling them into a single user-friendly list is a simple matter. Hell, just throw up a google doc and have everybody edit it, it's trivially easy.
i think every notable developer has made ninja changes in the past.
the problem with ns2 patchnotes is that we get beta/charlie balance mod notes which don't necessarily correspond to the follow up release patch notes... kinda confusing.
it's not such a big deal though, as the notable changes are either super obvious (walljump, camo) or listed in the notes (regen, tres onos).
Couldn't agree more with you. There's a lot of gameplay changes and map changes that haven't been mentioned, such as skulk's movement and that horribly placed stalagmite in Mineshaft.
If there's just a slight change then note it. It makes it easier for us, the community, to check out these changes and create a discussion around it.
Anyone else experiencing similar or am I just going nuts?
Anyone else experiencing similar or am I just going nuts?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i definitely noticed a framerate drop when firing an exo weapon today... instant 60 fps down to 20.
BUT i haven't used exo for like 2 weeks before that, so can't confirm whether it was introduced in a later patch.
Delayed changelog, okay. But no announcement of b231 until after everyone's been playing it for 12+ hours? o.O
Otherwise, I did notice a few changes in the maps, which was a nice bonus. I have no idea if that shipped with 230 or 231, though.
Particularly, it seems Mineshaft lost a res node or two, which is great, because that map is ridiculous with something like 13 nodes.
I was holding 4 as a khamm (which is normally not a bad place to be for aliens) and wondering how the heck the marines kept throwing exo's at us. Then I went and counted the nodes on the map. Ugh.