Vortex and You
Davil
Florida, USA Join Date: 2012-08-14 Member: 155602Members, Constellation
Florida, USA Join Date: 2012-08-14 Member: 155602Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Another instructional video</div>Alright so I made a quick video showing off how vortex can be used in a useful way. After the changes that were made to it recently it's become actually less useful if you can believe it, but it still can do some cool things.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWLr0fNsqbU&feature=youtu.be" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWLr0fNsqbU...eature=youtu.be</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWLr0fNsqbU&feature=youtu.be" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWLr0fNsqbU...eature=youtu.be</a>
Comments
Also,I was a victim of phase gate vortex.Annoying as hell.
Vortex is still really bad.. . I'll be aiming right at a Sentry battery from about 5 feet away and it hits one of the sentries instead
It also consumes energy when you hit nothing and has a huge cooldown before you can do anything else after using it
The coordination needed is on par with trying to use parasite mid fight when you got guys dodging around shooting you
I like the skills potential to wipe out obs / phase / arms lab, but as a 3 hive skill it gets some of the least play of any of the abilities
Vortex is still really bad.. . I'll be aiming right at a Sentry battery from about 5 feet away and it hits one of the sentries instead
It also consumes energy when you hit nothing and has a huge cooldown before you can do anything else after using it
The coordination needed is on par with trying to use parasite mid fight when you got guys dodging around shooting you
I like the skills potential to wipe out obs / phase / arms lab, but as a 3 hive skill it gets some of the least play of any of the abilities<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's why I refer to it as an obscure weapon that you will rarely if ever see. However it is something that can be used if done properly. If you are attacking the marine main with at least one other person and they're all away or dead you can vortex the ip or observatory to buy some time to do a lot more damage than you normally would. Also I wouldn't bother using it on sentries, they're weak enough as is.
the problem with the old vortex was that you could never select a specific unit to take out of the game. for example, you have 3 marines staying at an armory. they are under constant pressure from skulks and you, and you probably play the fade hit&run style. the marines are constantly healed by the armory -> take the armory out and the picture changes
or, 2 exos pressure your hive with marine / mac weld support. i guess everyone of you knows how difficult it can be. in that situation you can either take out a marine which reduces the healing the exos receive (and maybe bilebombs can do their thing then) or if you make a coordinated push, simply take out one exosuit and effectively cut their fire power by 50%. combine that with umbra, enzyme cloud, gorge heal
previously, vortex took out every unit in one area, which did not really give you a tactical advantage. it was simply prolonging a fight (by adding a down time for both sides since nobody could attack or be attacked). it had its use back then as well. you could disable a whole squad, to give your gorges / crags the time they need to heal something up, and "vortexed" grenades dealt no damage. however, the fade is a surgical striker and being able to take out one specific unit, gives you combined with other alien abilities more tactical options and is able to create opportunities to kill / destroy units, which the old vortex did not.
the problem with the old vortex was that you could never select a specific unit to take out of the game. for example, you have 3 marines staying at an armory. they are under constant pressure from skulks and you, and you probably play the fade hit&run style. the marines are constantly healed by the armory -> take the armory out and the picture changes
or, 2 exos pressure your hive with marine / mac weld support. i guess everyone of you knows how difficult it can be. in that situation you can either take out a marine which reduces the healing the exos receive (and maybe bilebombs can do their thing then) or if you make a coordinated push, simply take out one exosuit and effectively cut their fire power by 50%. combine that with umbra, enzyme cloud, gorge heal
previously, vortex took out every unit in one area, which did not really give you a tactical advantage. it was simply prolonging a fight (by adding a down time for both sides since nobody could attack or be attacked). it had its use back then as well. you could disable a whole squad, to give your gorges / crags the time they need to heal something up, and "vortexed" grenades dealt no damage. however, the fade is a surgical striker and being able to take out one specific unit, gives you combined with other alien abilities more tactical options and is able to create opportunities to kill / destroy units, which the old vortex did not.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I never found vortex to be particularly useful against players, really it was pretty awesome when a comm would put all their stuff in one spot so I could vortex it all. Being able to vortex the obs and phase while a gorge biled the power was pretty sweet.
Except that blinking in to vortex an armory with a group of marines makes you more of a support role, risking your life and 50 pres instead of "hit and run" .. <i>because guess what that group of marines will do to that fade?</i>
I.e. This 3rd tier ability used in this instance is only useful if used in combination with other lifeforms and does not fit the fade's role.
Would much rather have something that fits the fade's role and allows the fade to fight marines still.. like vortex allowing the fade to fight in the vortex with only 1 marine out of a group.
I would also like to see the return of the acid rocket limb for the Fade, with acid rocket replaced with a ball that vortexes whatever it hits.
Nice vid, Davil, maybe I won't be the only fade who asks for vortex now... and maybe I won't have to keep yelling at teammates to stop attacking the vortexed PG and hit the power instead. :-)
I would also like to see the return of the acid rocket limb for the Fade, with acid rocket replaced with a ball that vortexes whatever it hits.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Losing the armory doesn't automatically drop the marine armor to the default 30 so that would explain it. The more important thing about it is ones that spawn won't have the armor right away and most importantly their weapons won't be upgraded. That itself buys every lifeform a few extra hits.
Then I, again, put forth the idea that the acid rocket limb be put back on the Fade's shoulder, and it shoots an orb that vortexes whatever it hits.
Then you get a new layer of play where marines are jumping into vortex orbs to prevent IPs from getting locked or comm chairs being trolled.
if you're at 3 hives then marines are either gonna be gearing up for an all or nothing attack or get stomped by oni.
you won't have to time or resources to get such a gimmicky upgrade; unless it's the latter situation where you can do almost anything and still win.
Instead of vortexing the arms lab, go gorge and bilebomb it down. 100 times more productive.
I disagree that shooting them at arms labs is worthwhile... when I com marines, I often have 2 of them to prevent sniping and, occasionally, for upgrading both weps and armor at the same time. Yeah, I know thats expensive, but if the map control issue is in hand, I usually have the res for it.
Anyway, PG's, Obs and the primary command chair seem to be the best targets (since you cant hit the power node) but also IP's because it cripples marine spawn time in a siege about as good as you can hope for with the power still up.
I agree with Iron horse though, the Fade isn't a tank, and blinking in for a cheeky vortex on something seems very risky unless its part of a combined effort, and then I think vortex is really the only thing a fade generally contributes to a base-bust... because the fade kills too slowly and dies too quickly due to his size for him to participate in the actual fight... but that's just my experience.
I did use the vortex on the primary CC twice and both times the commander popped out. Not sure if thats because the chair ejects them when vortexed or if he was just pissed.
Acid Rocket or some sort of ranged equivalent would be great for jetpacks; I say this not even having played NS or developed an obsession with its features.
On the other hand, some tool to isolate a Marine or two from the pack would make him viable against heavy pushes of upgraded Marines. Some sort of reverse Vortex, offensive teleport-target, or knockback would work.
Come to think of it, a teleport-target ability would work well for both Jetpacks and Crowds, if used correctly. Plus, it has quite a bit of skill involved vis-a-vis where you set the teleport to come out. Do you set it near the enemy base to force them to traverse the map? Maybe in your own hive so they'll be killed quickly?
Vortex isn't a bad ability to have in the game, though. It's great for fighting Exosuits or GLs. Maybe it could replace Xenocide as a Skulk ability? That might make it a bit too common and powerful.
The problem is it can't be <i>too</i> good an ability, or the fade will be unstoppable. It has to be just good enough that it provides some form of additional support to the team; nothing that allows the fade to kill or escape better than it already does. So vortex comes pretty close to filling that category, but as evidenced by the lack of players that call for it, it's not worth using at this point.
I.e. This 3rd tier ability used in this instance is only useful if used in combination with other lifeforms and does not fit the fade's role.
<b>Would much rather have something that fits the fade's role and allows the fade to fight marines still.. like vortex allowing the fade to fight in the vortex with only 1 marine out of a group.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow, that is a really cool idea. I'd love to see UW implement this on the beta server and see how it works out.
I thought of this idea too. But wasn't it the initial idea of UWE? Anyway I'd like to see it in action.
What I could think of is that while structures are vortexed they are immaterialized so aliens, like onos, could walk through it. There we have a counterattack for armory walls and a reason to also use fades instead of just onos spam. What do you think? Is it OP or just right or does this idea need some tweaking?
Cast it before combat to make your next attack to cause Vortex to one target, or it triggers by itself a few seconds later with no cast-time as bonus. Or take from DotA where an ability sets a waypoint where the ability was used, and after a few seconds the player and any target around him (alternatively target struck with basic attack) would be teleported back to that previously placed waypoint.
Vortex is cool on paper, but it could use a bit of redesigning, especially with <a href="http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/counter-play" target="_blank">Counter-Play</a> in mind. How engaging/tactical is it really to be or potentially be Vortexed?
Sounds like a minor counter beacon. ^^ But that's interesting too. I can imagine 2 Fades or more starting scattering the team around the map denying group ups for strong pushes. Or even worse if they are randomly ported into a skulk rush. NOM NOM time. On the other side marines could be ported to a nearly dead hive and therefor destroy it quickly.
I'd hate to vortex someone and have them set up a sneaky second base.
Upvote for this gentleman to get Squad Five status.