F4. And GG are very different, I have never seen a person call GG before hitting f4. People who f4 in my opinion are people who can't accept loosing and quit while blaming their team for the lose.
There are only 2 reasons to ever f4
1st -you have to leave the server/game. Dinner sleep homework work whatever.... 2nd- rines are in a serious turtle (multiple armorys blocking, macs, lvl3/3). Not everyone enjoys a good turtle but some people do....
If you f4 before a turtle situation you are insulting everyone who is playing, give the winning team the chance to enjoy their victory, and give the losing team a chance to pull off the impossible.
People GG in SC2 because the game is over and their is no satisfaction in small victories.... But in NS2 even after its clearly over every player has opportunity for a small win (even fighting 4 base aliens soloing a fade feels good, or ninjaing a hive for no reason other then satisfaction)
People who f4 in pubs are stating that its only fun to win, and that they don't need the practice fighting a better player.
I think the issue is the rine turtle. That they can actually hold off the aliens for so long after it is clearly over gives players that 'alamo' feeling and just draws it out.
I see alien teams regularly F4 when its clearly lost, but rine teams almost NEVER F4. I think I can count on my hand the number of times rine teams have thrown in the towel whereas alien teams almost always F4 once its over. This might be due to the egg lock being a ###### or that its very, very obvious when you've lost as aliens. Marines it always looks like you're 'holding them off' and you 'have a chance to win it' when clearly they are just outside the main base and you cant do ######.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->People who f4 in pubs are stating that its only fun to win, and that they don't need the practice fighting a better player.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats effing stupid. I F4 because I dont think its fun to spawn/get killed/repeat. The game is not fun for those last 5 - 15 minutes on the rine team when you've clearly lost.
My proposed solutions would be simple:
- Add finishing upgrades to both sides. For aliens have unlocks that double, then quadruple, health and attack damage for something stupid like 200 res a piece and require 3 hives. Marines would also get something similar when having 3 command chairs.
- Make A3/W3 require a second chair somewhere. The loss of A3/W3 would go a long ways towards stopping the endless turtle.
- Make the advanced armory weapons also require a second chair.
I dont even think all of those need to be implemented to fix this. Just one of them would go a long way towards stopping that effing stupid, useless rine turtle. I dont get people who think that alamo is fun. You know its over, whether as aliens or marines, and yet you just keep dragging it out instead of starting a new game where you can actually play.
When I first started playing I would get really irritated at Commanders who didn't or players not hitting F4. However, I find that the majority of players just want to play til the end. I'm starting to respect this. I'm starting to find Commanders who recycle without their team agreeing to be kind of ######y. I understand it can be boring if the other team controls the entire map, but they're taking forever to attack the last base. This can usually be combated by taunting they other team, which usually results in a swift base rush and the end of the round.
One thing that really P.O.s me is when admins restart the round if their team is losing. This has happened to me numerous times in Mavick's Server. If the other team has most of the nodes and applies constant pressure to his team he'll just reset the round. However, if he's on a team that's dominating he'll play the round til the last structure is destroyed. It's really cheap.
F4 is only for people who like giving up. There were so many games as aliens where marines were exo bashing all our hives. Half our teamed F4'd and we just ran to marine base and raped them. Even with 3 - 4 guys in our team in lobby begging us to F4.
Guess what happened? Aliens won. Why? Because those who F4 are wimps. If there is a chance in victory you fight to the bitter end like a man. There was one noteable game we lost. 2 against 6. 4 players were sitting in lobby begging to F4.
1 skulk fought to the bitter end, and took down 4 marines before he died and lost the hive. If I remembered his username I would have posted it. But deffinetly props to that guy.
<!--quoteo(post=2037874:date=Nov 30 2012, 09:37 AM:name=maD maX)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (maD maX @ Nov 30 2012, 09:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037874"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->F4. And GG are very different, I have never seen a person call GG before hitting f4. People who f4 in my opinion are people who can't accept loosing and quit while blaming their team for the lose.
There are only 2 reasons to ever f4
1st -you have to leave the server/game. Dinner sleep homework work whatever.... 2nd- rines are in a serious turtle (multiple armorys blocking, macs, lvl3/3). Not everyone enjoys a good turtle but some people do....
If you f4 before a turtle situation you are insulting everyone who is playing, give the winning team the chance to enjoy their victory, and give the losing team a chance to pull off the impossible.
People GG in SC2 because the game is over and their is no satisfaction in small victories.... But in NS2 even after its clearly over every player has opportunity for a small win (even fighting 4 base aliens soloing a fade feels good, or ninjaing a hive for no reason other then satisfaction)
People who f4 in pubs are stating that its only fun to win, and that they don't need the practice fighting a better player.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> There's only 1 reason to F4, and that reason is that you don't want to play the game on the team you're on any more. There are times when it's more appropriate, and times when it's less appropriate, but it's never absolutely taboo to F4 out of the game.
There's times when I've literally been shouting as the commander "PHASE TO X, PHASE TO X, PHASE TO X" and the entire team sits around doing nothing, and we lose some techpoint to something that was absolutely preventable just because the marines decided that sitting on their thumbs was more important than responding to an obviously pressing issue for 15 seconds or so. Sometimes I can stay contained, sometimes I can handle that and stick around anyways. I can do my best to take responsibility and move on from it and try to salvage what there is left.... Other times it's either I get out of that situation or I literally explode in the most disgusting horrible vitriol you can possibly imagine. At those times I f4 because logically I know this is just a game, and as much as I want to give people a piece of my mind for how terrible they were in that one moment, most of them did have good reasons not to listen to me, I'm really not cogent enough anymore to specifically blame the offenders that didn't, and we're all there to have fun. If they found sparring with a gorge in a vent they had no chance at killing more fun than winning the game, fine, who am I to call them out? In that moment I just have to not be on that team doing that thing any more so that everyone in the game is a little more capable of having a good time. I need to get out of the situation so that the emotions of the moment don't override the logical standards I know to be more true.
Likewise, sometimes I F4 because I'm on a team that has chosen to go down a strategic path that I just find really not entertaining. I really hate playing shade first in a 24 player server as aliens for example. I know that in 5 minutes we're going to be egg locked, I know that the alien comm has made the terrible decision to gamble on the marine comm's inability to scan intelligently, I know that I'm just going to be depressed and frustrated if I try to play out that situation. This is a game, I bought the game, I installed the game, I chose to boot up the game, so that ultimately I could have fun. It's one thing if I get stuck in a situation where I know we fought hard for the best, but it's a forgone conclusion that we're going to lose anyways, it's another thing entirely when someone just out right chooses to sabotage the game for me by doing something I do not want to play. At times I make the command decision that spectating the game, or finding another server, or in extreme cases occasionally switching teams (I consider it really bad form to F4 to switch teams in most cases, sometimes people ragequit cause they hate playing AGAINST cloakers and all of a sudden the marine team desperately needs players however), is what I need to do to have fun.
I don't usually F4 just because my team lost some hard fought engagement that puts us on the back foot. I don't usually F4 to get out of a turtle (at least not in a vacuum, I'll ask other people if they want to end the game or play it out first), I usually disconnect rather than F4 if I have a real life issue that needs to be attended to (unless it's a situation where I can be back in 5 minutes). I think it's a touchy issue in general, I think diplomacy is the way to go one way or another. Conceding the game is fine, but it really should be the majority agreeing to concede, as opposed to hammering F4 just because you personally believe the game is "over"
<!--quoteo(post=2037874:date=Nov 30 2012, 09:37 AM:name=maD maX)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (maD maX @ Nov 30 2012, 09:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037874"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->People who f4 in pubs are stating that its only fun to win, and that they don't need the practice fighting a better player.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is stupid...Same as the other guy said.
I personally F4 when I feel the other team isn't doing their job of ending the game. If all i am doing for 5-10 min is spawning and not even being able to take 1 step outside the base I will gladly F4 and wait for the next round if I feel there isn't any teamwork on my team or any effort to make a coordinated push to leave base. Hell just last night I f4ed on a game where they had turrets set up 15 feet outside aliens last bases with marines and exos standing behind them. Just sitting back and waiting for us skulks to come out and die.
Are you telling me a F4 is not warranted in that situation? Cmon..either end the game properly or people will F4 to end it for you.
I think there's two acceptable situations in which to F4.
One as marines when the aliens just can't break the final turtle but the marines can't break out, a good alien team can normally finish the game quickly at this point but some pub teams just end up sitting outside the marine base never letting them leave but never finishing the damn game either. That's not fun.
Secondly as aliens where marines are dominating the map but refuse to finish off the hive till they have exos and 300 arcs. This is basically the reverse of the other situation except that the delay is more on purpose and not due to lack of skill. At that point it's not fun any more, much better to F4 and start a fresh game.
What I do not like about the F4 technique is that by F4ing you are making matters even worst (face it, many players F4 for foolish reasons, such as failing a single push and just giving up when a win is still very viable). By F4ing, <i>sometimes</i> a player is guaranteeing a loss when a win could be pulled out due to having one less player. I would prefer a vote system, instead, so that if the rest of the team doesn't agree with your decision, it doesn't hurt the team as you play on. Otherwise, you leave the server which makes room for a new player to replace you.
With F4: So, what about when you are "in the right" about giving up and those other players keep playing? Well, your options are: 1. Recycle the base if you're the commander (see more on this below) 2. F4 and sit bored in the ready room 3. Leave the server 4. Continue playing
With option 1, you're violating a big rule about gaming - gaming is for fun. Although fighting to the final stand may not be fun for <i>you</i>, it might be fun for the other players. By forcing everyone to quit because you alone are not having fun, you are just being selfish and indirectly attacking other people's preference in fun. Some people actually enjoy last stands.
With option 2, well, you're bored. You could be helping your team but you're just sitting afk in the ready room taking up a server slot. You are not being productive in any form or fashion whatsoever. Remember, some players actually enjoy continuing a game, even if a loss is inevitable. Sometimes...those loss moments turn into wins with quick thinking of a few players.
With option 3, you state your position that you give up, but you leave the server which makes room for another player to replace you.
With option 4, you just keep on playing the game and supporting your team.
With a vote system, you have options 3 and 4 above which are the most favorable and honorable options there are, all while REMOVING the worst of the 4 options (1 and 2).
tldr; - With a vote system, you get the best of all the options on how to handle a losing situation. With F4, you include selfish and trollish options.
<!--quoteo(post=2037892:date=Nov 30 2012, 10:30 AM:name=current1y)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (current1y @ Nov 30 2012, 10:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037892"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That is stupid...Same as the other guy said.
I personally F4 when I feel the other team isn't doing their job of ending the game. If all i am doing for 5-10 min is spawning and not even being able to take 1 step outside the base I will gladly F4 and wait for the next round if I feel there isn't any teamwork on my team or any effort to make a coordinated push to leave base. Hell just last night I f4ed on a game where they had turrets set up 15 feet outside aliens last bases with marines and exos standing behind them. Just sitting back and waiting for us skulks to come out and die.
Are you telling me a F4 is not warranted in that situation? Cmon..either end the game properly or people will F4 to end it for you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Trolling is always acceptable use of F4. If your own comander trolls you, or the enemy is trolling you.
---
I am against people who F4 because they suck at the game and just give up when a win is viable
In NS1 it was like an epic last stand. It was a sport to see how long you could hold off a team that should had won 10 mins ago. By holding out for a long time even the loosing team had aquired a small victory. And for the other team the victory was achieved under enorm pressure and therefor more rewarding and satisfying. Just pressing F4 is kinda like stealing the victory from the other team, it is too easy, not as rewarding as killing even the last enemy player and building an RT at their last base (RT of shame).
I like a fight 'till the end and I am always disappointed when a team F4s. Why can 3-4 people decide for the other 5 left in the team that the round is over? At least start a surrender vote and live with the decision. The same goes for selling, ASK your god damn team before you sell. It shows respect to your fellow players. Everything else is just selfish.
I think the problem is that many players play to have fun as long as they can have with one round and many others just want to end a round to save 10 mins of a game <u>they </u>consider lost and start a new round. That are two positions that exist (sadly) and that can't be merged. Therefor it should be the best way to start a discussion in the team and not forcing a decision to the rest of the team.
An underlaying problem is that people who played NS1 expect other things than people who started with NS2. It is like two worlds are clashing into each other. But in the end, I would be happy if NS2 would add more fun and options to the gameplay. If you would have more options to win even in a disastrous situation and have a comeback or if you would have a lot of fun with NS2 even while your team is loosing, maybe people would start to play a round untill it is over than rather abandoning the team after loosing one RT. Anyways, everything could be much less frustrating with a bit more courtesy. At least that is what I think. Who knows, maybe we are all playing the classic mod in one year because it is more rewarding and this ain't an issue at all ;)
Far better to add a formalized, simple Concede Vote system.
Conceding is understood as a respectable practice in games -- randomly getting up and walking away from the gaming table is not. Plus with a concede vote you get to stay in and play rather than wait for enough players to F4 (which likely won't happen.)
I've been in situations that looked absolutely hopeless, but we were able to pull off wins despite overwhelming odds. It honestly looked like an F4 situation and we were all ready to call it quits.
on aliens (tram): We were pushed back to Warehouse and Server Room (literally just 2 res nodes), and an exo train was incoming to Server. They took way too long to get into Server, giving us time to get 4 or 5 pRes onos, some gorges and a lerk and hit shipping, making the exo train falter (a mistake on their part). While the marines were disorganized, we hit Repair Room next and the power node just went off like a light switch with 5 onos and gorge bile bombs. The exos went to server room and destroyed the hive, then fell back to Elevator Transfer, but our comm was quick to take advantage of the situation and cysted every available res node, redropping hives like mad. Some exos tried to push back to Shipping, but they were jumped by onos from around that tight corner in Observation. It was only a matter of time before we wore them down.
on marines (summit): We were down to Data Core, but some of us already had JPs. We somehow managed to sneak out to Crossroads (through pipe junction) and ninja a PG there (built the power with welders, got a PG up on a small part of the hive without infestation. All of us phased and shot the hive down with level 3 weapons. We managed to claw back Crossroads from them (due to a combination of luck, desperation and good timing) and got a second CC up. More pRes JPs followed, and we went from Crossroads to Flight Control, and destroyed that hive as well, cutting Atrium off from Sub Access. Then we had to wear their pRes onoses down one by one - it was exhilarating to see like 5 or 6 JPs chase after onoses and focus fire them with level 3 assault rifles.
None of the above would have been possible without a great deal of luck, good timing, good team work and complacency on the part of the other team. These are some of the best moments in NS2~
<!--quoteo(post=2037881:date=Nov 30 2012, 02:58 PM:name=Bellicosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bellicosity @ Nov 30 2012, 02:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037881"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thats effing stupid. I F4 because I dont think its fun to spawn/get killed/repeat. The game is not fun for those last 5 - 15 minutes on the rine team when you've clearly lost.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
again F4ing is rage quitting!! If the winning team wants to wait 2 minutes to send in 20 arcs and 8 exo's thats fine, they earned it. Most "spawn killing occurs when their are only 1-3 mid level attackers in base (Ie SG/lerk/Fade/lmg) These Units are forced to kill spawned players or die, if you give it a minute the GL/Exo/onos/gorge will come in and kill the hive.
THis is a multiplayer game, with a supposedly tight community, If your not willing to get killed a few times so the other team can have the victory they deserved your only detracting from the game.
<!--quoteo(post=2037935:date=Nov 30 2012, 10:10 AM:name=maD maX)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (maD maX @ Nov 30 2012, 10:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037935"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->again F4ing is rage quitting!! If the winning team wants to wait 2 minutes to send in 20 arcs and 8 exo's thats fine, they earned it. Most "spawn killing occurs when their are only 1-3 mid level attackers in base (Ie SG/lerk/Fade/lmg) These Units are forced to kill spawned players or die, if you give it a minute the GL/Exo/onos/gorge will come in and kill the hive. THis is a multiplayer game, with a supposedly tight community, If your not willing to get killed a few times so the other team can have the victory they deserved your only detracting from the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
F4 when the game is lost has nothing to do with rage quitting. It's an effective surrender vote in the absence of a surrender vote system. I'd call someone who got killed by a marine/alien 5 times in a row early game (when there is still a chance to contend) and then left the server "rage quitting."
Leaving after 15+ minutes, and down to less than 3 RTs with no outlook for expansion is simply a surrender vote, which given the situation every sane and smart person should take.
There's little to nothing to be learned from repeatedly walking into stomping oni with AR, blocking off entrances with armories/robotics facs to troll the game, or going into camping exos or jetpackers with skulks without leap. The only thing you're doing if the game is effectively lost is at least providing entertainment for the opposing team with hopeless efforts, and at most going through motions without any chance to progress in the game. If that's fun for you, that's fine. You can stay to play it through. I'd rather move on to the next game where I can have a chance to learn something, improve, and actually contend, because that's where I have fun - not walking into the mouth of stomping oni around the corner of the only room I can spawn in, especially if that goes on for more than 2-3 minutes without a conclusion.
The only way you can hope to have a reversal from 1 tech point 15+ minutes into the game is: - if it was a close game to begin with (that should be readily apparent to the experienced player), and you still have resources and units or people powerful and skilled enough to secure a second TP rapidly - if half or more of the good people on the other team disconnect and are replaced by completely inane players
But anyway, all those issues where people seem to be confused about when someone has "rage quit" as opposed to "surrendered" would be disambiguated by a simple, configurable percentage (please), surrender vote.
I would accept a vote "surrender" IF the other team also has a vote "accept surrender"...
What I want to know is how many people who are winning sit there and think "man this sucks I keep killing them i wish this would be over" When a person is winning they are usually having FUN If the other team quits their FUN is over.
If you defend the righteousness of F4, think about those other games you play, the ones where you were winning. Would you want the other team to just quit or would you want to finish the game.
I would actually rather them accept defeat if I've won and if the game is clearly not going anywhere.
It's not fun for me to steamroll, or get steamrolled. I have the most fun when the game is close, whether I win or lose. And close means constant trading of RTs, and perhaps even trading tech points, not being sieged with 2 RTs on two chairs or hives.
The fun of destroying the last chair/hive is about the same fun that I receive from wiping my ass after a dump: it's a purely mechanical action, requiring no skill or thought except "oh, is it done yet? yep, it's done." It just has to be done, so I do it. It's a waste of time, especially if it doesn't happen fast.
Moreover, I don't play so others can have fun. I play so I can have fun :-D . The feelings of the other team are pretty much the least of my concerns when I join a game.
P.S. Actually, come to think of it, I think I have a lot more fun playing the early-, mid- game when there's no oni or exos. I feel like once they get out, the gameplay around them is pretty dull. They both have huge hitboxes and move pretty slowly, so there's no skill as far as aiming for them involved, except to know "when to run in a straight line." There are a few skills which can be developed around exos and oni, but they're not too much fun for me. That's OK, but it's not very exciting. But anyway, that's pretty much off topic here.
<!--quoteo(post=2037963:date=Nov 30 2012, 02:25 PM:name=HeatSurge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HeatSurge @ Nov 30 2012, 02:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037963"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would actually rather them accept defeat if I've won and if the game is clearly not going anywhere.
It's not fun for me to steamroll, or get steamrolled.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But what you find to be fun and what other people find to be fun is not necessarily the same thing, and if you're comm, recycling the base deprives everybody else from their potential fun.
I DGAF what the rest of my nub pub team thinks. When I'm the marine commander, I recycle when I know the game is done. If I'm on the ground, I try to convince my team to eject the commander if he won't recycle so that I can do it.
I honestly don't think very many people enjoy the 10 minute last stands. I do believe however that there are a ton of people who are complacent and are just like ohhh sure whattevver many lets just chill and be friends. That this is the case is really clear to me whenever I have tried asking my team what they think about me recycling. Sure occasionally it might be fun if your the one surviving EXO camped out on top of the CC, but generally its just a dumb waste of time.
I think that when people don't F4 its more that the majority of the server is just too nub to know the game is over, or to even know that f4ing can end the game more quickly. Or they are just spaced out and don't really know whats going on.
Obviously there are a few people around who think its super fun to crush the last 2 buildings the marines have or think its super fun to fling your skulk body into 5 3-3 marines who mow you down no matter how good you are, but they are definitely the minority.
<!--quoteo(post=2037994:date=Nov 30 2012, 03:30 PM:name=statikg)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (statikg @ Nov 30 2012, 03:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037994"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I DGAF what the rest of my nub pub team thinks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would rather not play with anybody who has such an attitude, nor do I want anyone with such an attitude to play on my server. If you don't have any respect for your fellow players, I'm not sure why you would play this kind of team-oriented game to begin with.
<!--quoteo(post=2037994:date=Nov 30 2012, 01:30 PM:name=statikg)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (statikg @ Nov 30 2012, 01:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037994"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I DGAF what the rest of my nub pub team thinks. When I'm the marine commander, I recycle when I know the game is done. If I'm on the ground, I try to convince my team to eject the commander if he won't recycle so that I can do it.
I honestly don't think very many people enjoy the 10 minute last stands. I do believe however that there are a ton of people who are complacent and are just like ohhh sure whattevver many lets just chill and be friends. That this is the case is really clear to me whenever I have tried asking my team what they think about me recycling. Sure occasionally it might be fun if your the one surviving EXO camped out on top of the CC, but generally its just a dumb waste of time.
I think that when people don't F4 its more that the majority of the server is just too nub to know the game is over, or to even know that f4ing can end the game more quickly. Or they are just spaced out and don't really know whats going on.
Obviously there are a few people around who think its super fun to crush the last 2 buildings the marines have or think its super fun to fling your skulk body into 5 3-3 marines who mow you down no matter how good you are, but they are definitely the minority.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you are the good player, but you have to rage quit all the time? LOL, that sure makes sense!
I love when bad players, who think they are good, turn into quitters. It just shows how much you get owned.
<!--quoteo(post=2037994:date=Dec 1 2012, 03:30 AM:name=statikg)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (statikg @ Dec 1 2012, 03:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037994"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I DGAF what the rest of my nub pub team thinks. When I'm the marine commander, I recycle when I know the game is done. If I'm on the ground, I try to convince my team to eject the commander if he won't recycle so that I can do it.
... Or they are just spaced out and don't really know whats going on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I almost like this attitude, although i wouldnt recycle if *most* of the team didnt want to...
I totally lost it though when you mention the team being 'spaced out'... ive joined several late night games with a bunch of stoners and rookies in a deadlock, all like "wtf cant get out of base..." (there being a whip army outside sitting there...), bloody hilarious :)
<!--quoteo(post=2037994:date=Nov 30 2012, 03:30 PM:name=statikg)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (statikg @ Nov 30 2012, 03:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037994"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I DGAF what the rest of my nub pub team thinks. When I'm the marine commander, I recycle when I know the game is done. If I'm on the ground, I try to convince my team to eject the commander if he won't recycle so that I can do it.
I honestly don't think very many people enjoy the 10 minute last stands. I do believe however that there are a ton of people who are complacent and are just like ohhh sure whattevver many lets just chill and be friends. That this is the case is really clear to me whenever I have tried asking my team what they think about me recycling. Sure occasionally it might be fun if your the one surviving EXO camped out on top of the CC, but generally its just a dumb waste of time.
I think that when people don't F4 its more that the majority of the server is just too nub to know the game is over, or to even know that f4ing can end the game more quickly. Or they are just spaced out and don't really know whats going on.
Obviously there are a few people around who think its super fun to crush the last 2 buildings the marines have or think its super fun to fling your skulk body into 5 3-3 marines who mow you down no matter how good you are, but they are definitely the minority.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So let's look at this the other way. You've had a good, close game as marine, you've managed to push back the aliens to their last hive, after some epic battles from 3 hives up. You gather people for the final push, jetpackers and a couple of exos, ready to take down that last hive.
Then before you can get in the door, 'marines win'.
That's the definition of anticlimax. The game would have been over in 30s, but the other team - with whom you'd had a really good game - decided for you that the final, short-lived but hard-earned victory would not be yours, just a 'yeah that's done, next.'
There are situations where a vote concede would be by far and away the best option for everyone - these are probably the overwhelming majority, and I'd like to see a vote concede function in the game. But you taking a unilateral decision to finish a game because you *think* it's over is not acceptable. If you discuss with your team and the majority agrees, well fair enough, but consider the other team carefully in this case.
The real problem is that with a game-closer, say uber 3-hive ability, those close-comeback games will get shut down, and some of those are the best games we all have IMHO. However, when it's really, REALLY over, like one team has the entire map bar the last tech point, then there should be a mechanism to boost up that last team for the final push (rather than needing a whole team of onos at the minute). The alien turtle almost never happens, to be fair - marines on the whole tend to be able to finish off the last hive.
It's a fine balance, and one that needs veyr careful tweaking, but the ability for a team to concede should definitely be there. Perhaps if the vote is successful, you can no longer attack or spawn, and a 1 minute timer is started for the other team to finish you off before auto-losing the game? That gets rid of the long wait, but allows the other team to finish it with a flourish...?
I think it really just depends on the person. Before this thread, I use to think commanders had the sole responsibility of recycling. The decision was his, and his alone. Now, I'm starting to think that asking my teammates would be better.
The real difference is that people have taken two different sides on the matter. You either enjoy the end game/tolerate it, or you value the early/mid game higher. There isn't a right or a wrong. In tourneys, we see people conceding defeat; games are rarely won by total elimination.
Your opinion that people should f4 or shouldn't f4 is wrong. The collective opinion of the players is what's actually right.
Had a sweet game the other day playing aliens on viel, we had cargo and double for a while and never got a second hive, we couldn't take sub or pipe... we had 2 players who kept saying "everyone F4" then they would F4 for 30 seconds rejoin and say "everyone F4" and repeat..... Anyway this was on a 9v9 game so we still had 7 players who worked together, we lost double, and 2 lerks managed to keep the exos out of cargo and pick off the JP for about 5 minutes (a well placed whip with bombard killed the one arc train).... anyway we held out and myself and 3 others managed to save onos pres... With the help of a gorge we swept the map starting in pipe (killed power killed CC and moved on) then went and rolled command 4 onos on the power got it off before the beacon.... meanwhile the remaining rines killed Cargo but not before we dropped Pipe and Command.... In the end we killed the CC in Sub and prevented them from finishing the CC they put in cargo.... our hives in command and pipe never finished and the 2 players who kept calling for us to F4 spent the last 2 minutes dead unable to spawn (my favorite part)
<!--quoteo(post=2037994:date=Nov 30 2012, 07:30 PM:name=statikg)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (statikg @ Nov 30 2012, 07:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037994"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I DGAF what the rest of my nub pub team thinks. When I'm the marine commander, I recycle when I know the game is done. If I'm on the ground, I try to convince my team to eject the commander if he won't recycle so that I can do it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First of your a D-bag... "I DGAF what the rest of my nub pub team thinks." WOW just WOW way to be a team player... Ejecting a commander for wanting to fight is lame... Second Rines can only turtle if the Commander enables them to. IE if your com you dont have to recycle to avoid a turtle, just dont spam macs, turrets, armoryies, and IP's....
You make me wish steam had an Anti-friend option so I could avoid playing with certain people.
i hate how you can't come back from a position with skilled play. It puts the entire game in the hands of the commander, and makes the players essentially upgradeable bodies.
<!--quoteo(post=2037676:date=Nov 29 2012, 10:29 PM:name=hakenspit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hakenspit @ Nov 29 2012, 10:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037676"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->People f4 too quickly and actually draw games out longer due to the autobalance kicking in (denying other team ability to respawn and assist in ending the game). f4'ing is not the solution, having aliens with some actual finishers would help (still stupidly easy to turtle last tech point as marines). Either that or for the love of god count people in ready room as still being on the team they last left, they are leaving as they believe the game is over...we dont need to try to balance team numbers when one side is f4'ing (could be left with a 1 v 3 game on a 24 player server) we need to allow the game to finish. Seeing as people often wont play out games we should not gimp the winning side due to one side trying to concede.
I have mentioned this ready room idea since the autobalance was first brought in...still we have not had any changes to how autobalance works. I see it cropping up every 5-6 games I play (might have something to do with me...but game design has to contribute too) where one side leaves as they are losing, not everyone leaves and some of the winning team who died in the final assault now have prolonged spawn time waits....this needs addressing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hate when people cry about this. Auto-balance doesn't "handicap" your team, you just spawn with the same amount of players. You still have all your advantages with the people spawned in i.e. probably a massive one if you're making the team F4. They don't need to change the auto-balance AT ALL, it's one of the best ones I've seen implemented. And breaking bases is not hard for the alien team as long as you have a comm that is smart enough to keep your team in onoses and have some competent gorges (read: don't think they have to just spam heals on onos and completely forget they have bile bomb). 2 gorges and 2 onos can rip a power node down in seconds, long before you lose more the one onos, it's just rare to see enough people on the team that are cognizant of this fact, most onos want to run in and just kill marines over and over until they get ran out or die.
When I F4 after our team is pent up in our last base, and I see some idiot from the alien team type out "join a team it will end faster with no auto-balance" I want to punch them and say "no it won't moron, because if I rejoin I'll keep killing your stupid gorges and onos that are too dumb to mass on the power node".
And on the note of admins being idiots about recycling, as an admin I've recycled bases myself when it gets to the point of no return. I will not subject half the server to playing with no reasonable expectation to succeed at anything but wasting their own leisure time. I've also told the alien team to end it quick or I'll just change the map if it drags out. I don't play the stupid turtle game on my server unless I happen to be on the marine team or spectating and it's clear to me most of the team actually wants to see how long they can hold out.
<!--quoteo(post=2037985:date=Nov 30 2012, 12:14 PM:name=Guspaz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Guspaz @ Nov 30 2012, 12:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037985"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But what you find to be fun and what other people find to be fun is not necessarily the same thing, and if you're comm, recycling the base deprives everybody else from their potential fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd <b>never</b> recycle as com. I'm not talking about recycling, I'm talking about pressing F4 above. The com shouldn't get to decide the outcome of the game. Percentage of players voted (by F4 or by a surrender vote when/if it gets implemented) should. (Democracy vs. dictatorship lulz?)
If I'm com and we've lost, I'll exit the com station, let the team know I'm surrendering, and vote for surrender by F4ing. If someone else wants to take over and continue the exercise in sheer stupidity after that, that's fine by me. I'll just wait for a game to play, i.e. people coming to their senses and surrendering so we can start a new, hopefully more balanced, round, while reading things in overlay, rather than waste my time.
Comments
There are only 2 reasons to ever f4
1st -you have to leave the server/game. Dinner sleep homework work whatever....
2nd- rines are in a serious turtle (multiple armorys blocking, macs, lvl3/3). Not everyone enjoys a good turtle but some people do....
If you f4 before a turtle situation you are insulting everyone who is playing, give the winning team the chance to enjoy their victory, and give the losing team a chance to pull off the impossible.
People GG in SC2 because the game is over and their is no satisfaction in small victories.... But in NS2 even after its clearly over every player has opportunity for a small win (even fighting 4 base aliens soloing a fade feels good, or ninjaing a hive for no reason other then satisfaction)
People who f4 in pubs are stating that its only fun to win, and that they don't need the practice fighting a better player.
I see alien teams regularly F4 when its clearly lost, but rine teams almost NEVER F4. I think I can count on my hand the number of times rine teams have thrown in the towel whereas alien teams almost always F4 once its over. This might be due to the egg lock being a ###### or that its very, very obvious when you've lost as aliens. Marines it always looks like you're 'holding them off' and you 'have a chance to win it' when clearly they are just outside the main base and you cant do ######.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->People who f4 in pubs are stating that its only fun to win, and that they don't need the practice fighting a better player.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats effing stupid. I F4 because I dont think its fun to spawn/get killed/repeat. The game is not fun for those last 5 - 15 minutes on the rine team when you've clearly lost.
My proposed solutions would be simple:
- Add finishing upgrades to both sides. For aliens have unlocks that double, then quadruple, health and attack damage for something stupid like 200 res a piece and require 3 hives. Marines would also get something similar when having 3 command chairs.
- Make A3/W3 require a second chair somewhere. The loss of A3/W3 would go a long ways towards stopping the endless turtle.
- Make the advanced armory weapons also require a second chair.
I dont even think all of those need to be implemented to fix this. Just one of them would go a long way towards stopping that effing stupid, useless rine turtle. I dont get people who think that alamo is fun. You know its over, whether as aliens or marines, and yet you just keep dragging it out instead of starting a new game where you can actually play.
One thing that really P.O.s me is when admins restart the round if their team is losing. This has happened to me numerous times in Mavick's Server. If the other team has most of the nodes and applies constant pressure to his team he'll just reset the round. However, if he's on a team that's dominating he'll play the round til the last structure is destroyed. It's really cheap.
There were so many games as aliens where marines were exo bashing all our hives. Half our teamed F4'd and we just ran to marine base and raped them. Even with 3 - 4 guys in our team in lobby begging us to F4.
Guess what happened? Aliens won.
Why? Because those who F4 are wimps. If there is a chance in victory you fight to the bitter end like a man.
There was one noteable game we lost. 2 against 6. 4 players were sitting in lobby begging to F4.
1 skulk fought to the bitter end, and took down 4 marines before he died and lost the hive. If I remembered his username I would have posted it.
But deffinetly props to that guy.
There are only 2 reasons to ever f4
1st -you have to leave the server/game. Dinner sleep homework work whatever....
2nd- rines are in a serious turtle (multiple armorys blocking, macs, lvl3/3). Not everyone enjoys a good turtle but some people do....
If you f4 before a turtle situation you are insulting everyone who is playing, give the winning team the chance to enjoy their victory, and give the losing team a chance to pull off the impossible.
People GG in SC2 because the game is over and their is no satisfaction in small victories.... But in NS2 even after its clearly over every player has opportunity for a small win (even fighting 4 base aliens soloing a fade feels good, or ninjaing a hive for no reason other then satisfaction)
People who f4 in pubs are stating that its only fun to win, and that they don't need the practice fighting a better player.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's only 1 reason to F4, and that reason is that you don't want to play the game on the team you're on any more. There are times when it's more appropriate, and times when it's less appropriate, but it's never absolutely taboo to F4 out of the game.
There's times when I've literally been shouting as the commander "PHASE TO X, PHASE TO X, PHASE TO X" and the entire team sits around doing nothing, and we lose some techpoint to something that was absolutely preventable just because the marines decided that sitting on their thumbs was more important than responding to an obviously pressing issue for 15 seconds or so. Sometimes I can stay contained, sometimes I can handle that and stick around anyways. I can do my best to take responsibility and move on from it and try to salvage what there is left.... Other times it's either I get out of that situation or I literally explode in the most disgusting horrible vitriol you can possibly imagine. At those times I f4 because logically I know this is just a game, and as much as I want to give people a piece of my mind for how terrible they were in that one moment, most of them did have good reasons not to listen to me, I'm really not cogent enough anymore to specifically blame the offenders that didn't, and we're all there to have fun. If they found sparring with a gorge in a vent they had no chance at killing more fun than winning the game, fine, who am I to call them out? In that moment I just have to not be on that team doing that thing any more so that everyone in the game is a little more capable of having a good time. I need to get out of the situation so that the emotions of the moment don't override the logical standards I know to be more true.
Likewise, sometimes I F4 because I'm on a team that has chosen to go down a strategic path that I just find really not entertaining. I really hate playing shade first in a 24 player server as aliens for example. I know that in 5 minutes we're going to be egg locked, I know that the alien comm has made the terrible decision to gamble on the marine comm's inability to scan intelligently, I know that I'm just going to be depressed and frustrated if I try to play out that situation. This is a game, I bought the game, I installed the game, I chose to boot up the game, so that ultimately I could have fun. It's one thing if I get stuck in a situation where I know we fought hard for the best, but it's a forgone conclusion that we're going to lose anyways, it's another thing entirely when someone just out right chooses to sabotage the game for me by doing something I do not want to play. At times I make the command decision that spectating the game, or finding another server, or in extreme cases occasionally switching teams (I consider it really bad form to F4 to switch teams in most cases, sometimes people ragequit cause they hate playing AGAINST cloakers and all of a sudden the marine team desperately needs players however), is what I need to do to have fun.
I don't usually F4 just because my team lost some hard fought engagement that puts us on the back foot. I don't usually F4 to get out of a turtle (at least not in a vacuum, I'll ask other people if they want to end the game or play it out first), I usually disconnect rather than F4 if I have a real life issue that needs to be attended to (unless it's a situation where I can be back in 5 minutes). I think it's a touchy issue in general, I think diplomacy is the way to go one way or another. Conceding the game is fine, but it really should be the majority agreeing to concede, as opposed to hammering F4 just because you personally believe the game is "over"
That is stupid...Same as the other guy said.
I personally F4 when I feel the other team isn't doing their job of ending the game. If all i am doing for 5-10 min is spawning and not even being able to take 1 step outside the base I will gladly F4 and wait for the next round if I feel there isn't any teamwork on my team or any effort to make a coordinated push to leave base. Hell just last night I f4ed on a game where they had turrets set up 15 feet outside aliens last bases with marines and exos standing behind them. Just sitting back and waiting for us skulks to come out and die.
Are you telling me a F4 is not warranted in that situation? Cmon..either end the game properly or people will F4 to end it for you.
One as marines when the aliens just can't break the final turtle but the marines can't break out, a good alien team can normally finish the game quickly at this point but some pub teams just end up sitting outside the marine base never letting them leave but never finishing the damn game either. That's not fun.
Secondly as aliens where marines are dominating the map but refuse to finish off the hive till they have exos and 300 arcs. This is basically the reverse of the other situation except that the delay is more on purpose and not due to lack of skill. At that point it's not fun any more, much better to F4 and start a fresh game.
With F4:
So, what about when you are "in the right" about giving up and those other players keep playing? Well, your options are:
1. Recycle the base if you're the commander (see more on this below)
2. F4 and sit bored in the ready room
3. Leave the server
4. Continue playing
With option 1, you're violating a big rule about gaming - gaming is for fun. Although fighting to the final stand may not be fun for <i>you</i>, it might be fun for the other players. By forcing everyone to quit because you alone are not having fun, you are just being selfish and indirectly attacking other people's preference in fun. Some people actually enjoy last stands.
With option 2, well, you're bored. You could be helping your team but you're just sitting afk in the ready room taking up a server slot. You are not being productive in any form or fashion whatsoever. Remember, some players actually enjoy continuing a game, even if a loss is inevitable. Sometimes...those loss moments turn into wins with quick thinking of a few players.
With option 3, you state your position that you give up, but you leave the server which makes room for another player to replace you.
With option 4, you just keep on playing the game and supporting your team.
With a vote system, you have options 3 and 4 above which are the most favorable and honorable options there are, all while REMOVING the worst of the 4 options (1 and 2).
tldr; - With a vote system, you get the best of all the options on how to handle a losing situation. With F4, you include selfish and trollish options.
I personally F4 when I feel the other team isn't doing their job of ending the game. If all i am doing for 5-10 min is spawning and not even being able to take 1 step outside the base I will gladly F4 and wait for the next round if I feel there isn't any teamwork on my team or any effort to make a coordinated push to leave base. Hell just last night I f4ed on a game where they had turrets set up 15 feet outside aliens last bases with marines and exos standing behind them. Just sitting back and waiting for us skulks to come out and die.
Are you telling me a F4 is not warranted in that situation? Cmon..either end the game properly or people will F4 to end it for you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Trolling is always acceptable use of F4.
If your own comander trolls you,
or the enemy is trolling you.
---
I am against people who F4 because they suck at the game and just give up when a win is viable
I like a fight 'till the end and I am always disappointed when a team F4s. Why can 3-4 people decide for the other 5 left in the team that the round is over? At least start a surrender vote and live with the decision. The same goes for selling, ASK your god damn team before you sell. It shows respect to your fellow players. Everything else is just selfish.
I think the problem is that many players play to have fun as long as they can have with one round and many others just want to end a round to save 10 mins of a game <u>they </u>consider lost and start a new round. That are two positions that exist (sadly) and that can't be merged. Therefor it should be the best way to start a discussion in the team and not forcing a decision to the rest of the team.
An underlaying problem is that people who played NS1 expect other things than people who started with NS2. It is like two worlds are clashing into each other. But in the end, I would be happy if NS2 would add more fun and options to the gameplay. If you would have more options to win even in a disastrous situation and have a comeback or if you would have a lot of fun with NS2 even while your team is loosing, maybe people would start to play a round untill it is over than rather abandoning the team after loosing one RT. Anyways, everything could be much less frustrating with a bit more courtesy. At least that is what I think. Who knows, maybe we are all playing the classic mod in one year because it is more rewarding and this ain't an issue at all ;)
Conceding is understood as a respectable practice in games -- randomly getting up and walking away from the gaming table is not. Plus with a concede vote you get to stay in and play rather than wait for enough players to F4 (which likely won't happen.)
on aliens (tram):
We were pushed back to Warehouse and Server Room (literally just 2 res nodes), and an exo train was incoming to Server. They took way too long to get into Server, giving us time to get 4 or 5 pRes onos, some gorges and a lerk and hit shipping, making the exo train falter (a mistake on their part). While the marines were disorganized, we hit Repair Room next and the power node just went off like a light switch with 5 onos and gorge bile bombs. The exos went to server room and destroyed the hive, then fell back to Elevator Transfer, but our comm was quick to take advantage of the situation and cysted every available res node, redropping hives like mad. Some exos tried to push back to Shipping, but they were jumped by onos from around that tight corner in Observation. It was only a matter of time before we wore them down.
on marines (summit):
We were down to Data Core, but some of us already had JPs. We somehow managed to sneak out to Crossroads (through pipe junction) and ninja a PG there (built the power with welders, got a PG up on a small part of the hive without infestation. All of us phased and shot the hive down with level 3 weapons. We managed to claw back Crossroads from them (due to a combination of luck, desperation and good timing) and got a second CC up. More pRes JPs followed, and we went from Crossroads to Flight Control, and destroyed that hive as well, cutting Atrium off from Sub Access. Then we had to wear their pRes onoses down one by one - it was exhilarating to see like 5 or 6 JPs chase after onoses and focus fire them with level 3 assault rifles.
None of the above would have been possible without a great deal of luck, good timing, good team work and complacency on the part of the other team. These are some of the best moments in NS2~
again F4ing is rage quitting!! If the winning team wants to wait 2 minutes to send in 20 arcs and 8 exo's thats fine, they earned it. Most "spawn killing occurs when their are only 1-3 mid level attackers in base (Ie SG/lerk/Fade/lmg) These Units are forced to kill spawned players or die, if you give it a minute the GL/Exo/onos/gorge will come in and kill the hive.
THis is a multiplayer game, with a supposedly tight community, If your not willing to get killed a few times so the other team can have the victory they deserved your only detracting from the game.
F4 when the game is lost has nothing to do with rage quitting. It's an effective surrender vote in the absence of a surrender vote system. I'd call someone who got killed by a marine/alien 5 times in a row early game (when there is still a chance to contend) and then left the server "rage quitting."
Leaving after 15+ minutes, and down to less than 3 RTs with no outlook for expansion is simply a surrender vote, which given the situation every sane and smart person should take.
There's little to nothing to be learned from repeatedly walking into stomping oni with AR, blocking off entrances with armories/robotics facs to troll the game, or going into camping exos or jetpackers with skulks without leap. The only thing you're doing if the game is effectively lost is at least providing entertainment for the opposing team with hopeless efforts, and at most going through motions without any chance to progress in the game. If that's fun for you, that's fine. You can stay to play it through. I'd rather move on to the next game where I can have a chance to learn something, improve, and actually contend, because that's where I have fun - not walking into the mouth of stomping oni around the corner of the only room I can spawn in, especially if that goes on for more than 2-3 minutes without a conclusion.
The only way you can hope to have a reversal from 1 tech point 15+ minutes into the game is:
- if it was a close game to begin with (that should be readily apparent to the experienced player), and you still have resources and units or people powerful and skilled enough to secure a second TP rapidly
- if half or more of the good people on the other team disconnect and are replaced by completely inane players
But anyway, all those issues where people seem to be confused about when someone has "rage quit" as opposed to "surrendered" would be disambiguated by a simple, configurable percentage (please), surrender vote.
What I want to know is how many people who are winning sit there and think "man this sucks I keep killing them i wish this would be over" When a person is winning they are usually having FUN If the other team quits their FUN is over.
If you defend the righteousness of F4, think about those other games you play, the ones where you were winning. Would you want the other team to just quit or would you want to finish the game.
It's not fun for me to steamroll, or get steamrolled. I have the most fun when the game is close, whether I win or lose. And close means constant trading of RTs, and perhaps even trading tech points, not being sieged with 2 RTs on two chairs or hives.
The fun of destroying the last chair/hive is about the same fun that I receive from wiping my ass after a dump: it's a purely mechanical action, requiring no skill or thought except "oh, is it done yet? yep, it's done." It just has to be done, so I do it. It's a waste of time, especially if it doesn't happen fast.
Moreover, I don't play so others can have fun. I play so I can have fun :-D . The feelings of the other team are pretty much the least of my concerns when I join a game.
P.S. Actually, come to think of it, I think I have a lot more fun playing the early-, mid- game when there's no oni or exos. I feel like once they get out, the gameplay around them is pretty dull. They both have huge hitboxes and move pretty slowly, so there's no skill as far as aiming for them involved, except to know "when to run in a straight line." There are a few skills which can be developed around exos and oni, but they're not too much fun for me. That's OK, but it's not very exciting. But anyway, that's pretty much off topic here.
It's not fun for me to steamroll, or get steamrolled.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But what you find to be fun and what other people find to be fun is not necessarily the same thing, and if you're comm, recycling the base deprives everybody else from their potential fun.
I honestly don't think very many people enjoy the 10 minute last stands. I do believe however that there are a ton of people who are complacent and are just like ohhh sure whattevver many lets just chill and be friends. That this is the case is really clear to me whenever I have tried asking my team what they think about me recycling. Sure occasionally it might be fun if your the one surviving EXO camped out on top of the CC, but generally its just a dumb waste of time.
I think that when people don't F4 its more that the majority of the server is just too nub to know the game is over, or to even know that f4ing can end the game more quickly. Or they are just spaced out and don't really know whats going on.
Obviously there are a few people around who think its super fun to crush the last 2 buildings the marines have or think its super fun to fling your skulk body into 5 3-3 marines who mow you down no matter how good you are, but they are definitely the minority.
I would rather not play with anybody who has such an attitude, nor do I want anyone with such an attitude to play on my server. If you don't have any respect for your fellow players, I'm not sure why you would play this kind of team-oriented game to begin with.
I honestly don't think very many people enjoy the 10 minute last stands. I do believe however that there are a ton of people who are complacent and are just like ohhh sure whattevver many lets just chill and be friends. That this is the case is really clear to me whenever I have tried asking my team what they think about me recycling. Sure occasionally it might be fun if your the one surviving EXO camped out on top of the CC, but generally its just a dumb waste of time.
I think that when people don't F4 its more that the majority of the server is just too nub to know the game is over, or to even know that f4ing can end the game more quickly. Or they are just spaced out and don't really know whats going on.
Obviously there are a few people around who think its super fun to crush the last 2 buildings the marines have or think its super fun to fling your skulk body into 5 3-3 marines who mow you down no matter how good you are, but they are definitely the minority.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you are the good player, but you have to rage quit all the time? LOL, that sure makes sense!
I love when bad players, who think they are good, turn into quitters. It just shows how much you get owned.
... Or they are just spaced out and don't really know whats going on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I almost like this attitude, although i wouldnt recycle if *most* of the team didnt want to...
I totally lost it though when you mention the team being 'spaced out'... ive joined several late night games with a bunch of stoners and rookies in a deadlock, all like "wtf cant get out of base..." (there being a whip army outside sitting there...), bloody hilarious :)
I honestly don't think very many people enjoy the 10 minute last stands. I do believe however that there are a ton of people who are complacent and are just like ohhh sure whattevver many lets just chill and be friends. That this is the case is really clear to me whenever I have tried asking my team what they think about me recycling. Sure occasionally it might be fun if your the one surviving EXO camped out on top of the CC, but generally its just a dumb waste of time.
I think that when people don't F4 its more that the majority of the server is just too nub to know the game is over, or to even know that f4ing can end the game more quickly. Or they are just spaced out and don't really know whats going on.
Obviously there are a few people around who think its super fun to crush the last 2 buildings the marines have or think its super fun to fling your skulk body into 5 3-3 marines who mow you down no matter how good you are, but they are definitely the minority.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So let's look at this the other way. You've had a good, close game as marine, you've managed to push back the aliens to their last hive, after some epic battles from 3 hives up. You gather people for the final push, jetpackers and a couple of exos, ready to take down that last hive.
Then before you can get in the door, 'marines win'.
That's the definition of anticlimax. The game would have been over in 30s, but the other team - with whom you'd had a really good game - decided for you that the final, short-lived but hard-earned victory would not be yours, just a 'yeah that's done, next.'
There are situations where a vote concede would be by far and away the best option for everyone - these are probably the overwhelming majority, and I'd like to see a vote concede function in the game. But you taking a unilateral decision to finish a game because you *think* it's over is not acceptable. If you discuss with your team and the majority agrees, well fair enough, but consider the other team carefully in this case.
The real problem is that with a game-closer, say uber 3-hive ability, those close-comeback games will get shut down, and some of those are the best games we all have IMHO. However, when it's really, REALLY over, like one team has the entire map bar the last tech point, then there should be a mechanism to boost up that last team for the final push (rather than needing a whole team of onos at the minute). The alien turtle almost never happens, to be fair - marines on the whole tend to be able to finish off the last hive.
It's a fine balance, and one that needs veyr careful tweaking, but the ability for a team to concede should definitely be there. Perhaps if the vote is successful, you can no longer attack or spawn, and a 1 minute timer is started for the other team to finish you off before auto-losing the game? That gets rid of the long wait, but allows the other team to finish it with a flourish...?
The real difference is that people have taken two different sides on the matter. You either enjoy the end game/tolerate it, or you value the early/mid game higher. There isn't a right or a wrong. In tourneys, we see people conceding defeat; games are rarely won by total elimination.
Your opinion that people should f4 or shouldn't f4 is wrong. The collective opinion of the players is what's actually right.
Had a sweet game the other day playing aliens on viel, we had cargo and double for a while and never got a second hive, we couldn't take sub or pipe... we had 2 players who kept saying "everyone F4" then they would F4 for 30 seconds rejoin and say "everyone F4" and repeat..... Anyway this was on a 9v9 game so we still had 7 players who worked together, we lost double, and 2 lerks managed to keep the exos out of cargo and pick off the JP for about 5 minutes (a well placed whip with bombard killed the one arc train).... anyway we held out and myself and 3 others managed to save onos pres... With the help of a gorge we swept the map starting in pipe (killed power killed CC and moved on) then went and rolled command 4 onos on the power got it off before the beacon.... meanwhile the remaining rines killed Cargo but not before we dropped Pipe and Command.... In the end we killed the CC in Sub and prevented them from finishing the CC they put in cargo.... our hives in command and pipe never finished and the 2 players who kept calling for us to F4 spent the last 2 minutes dead unable to spawn (my favorite part)
<!--quoteo(post=2037994:date=Nov 30 2012, 07:30 PM:name=statikg)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (statikg @ Nov 30 2012, 07:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037994"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I DGAF what the rest of my nub pub team thinks. When I'm the marine commander, I recycle when I know the game is done. If I'm on the ground, I try to convince my team to eject the commander if he won't recycle so that I can do it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First of your a D-bag... "I DGAF what the rest of my nub pub team thinks." WOW just WOW way to be a team player... Ejecting a commander for wanting to fight is lame... Second Rines can only turtle if the Commander enables them to. IE if your com you dont have to recycle to avoid a turtle, just dont spam macs, turrets, armoryies, and IP's....
You make me wish steam had an Anti-friend option so I could avoid playing with certain people.
i hate how you can't come back from a position with skilled play. It puts the entire game in the hands of the commander, and makes the players essentially upgradeable bodies.
essentially.
f4'ing is not the solution, having aliens with some actual finishers would help (still stupidly easy to turtle last tech point as marines).
Either that or for the love of god count people in ready room as still being on the team they last left, they are leaving as they believe the game is over...we dont need to try to balance team numbers when one side is f4'ing (could be left with a 1 v 3 game on a 24 player server) we need to allow the game to finish.
Seeing as people often wont play out games we should not gimp the winning side due to one side trying to concede.
I have mentioned this ready room idea since the autobalance was first brought in...still we have not had any changes to how autobalance works.
I see it cropping up every 5-6 games I play (might have something to do with me...but game design has to contribute too) where one side leaves as they are losing, not everyone leaves and some of the winning team who died in the final assault now have prolonged spawn time waits....this needs addressing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hate when people cry about this. Auto-balance doesn't "handicap" your team, you just spawn with the same amount of players. You still have all your advantages with the people spawned in i.e. probably a massive one if you're making the team F4. They don't need to change the auto-balance AT ALL, it's one of the best ones I've seen implemented. And breaking bases is not hard for the alien team as long as you have a comm that is smart enough to keep your team in onoses and have some competent gorges (read: don't think they have to just spam heals on onos and completely forget they have bile bomb). 2 gorges and 2 onos can rip a power node down in seconds, long before you lose more the one onos, it's just rare to see enough people on the team that are cognizant of this fact, most onos want to run in and just kill marines over and over until they get ran out or die.
When I F4 after our team is pent up in our last base, and I see some idiot from the alien team type out "join a team it will end faster with no auto-balance" I want to punch them and say "no it won't moron, because if I rejoin I'll keep killing your stupid gorges and onos that are too dumb to mass on the power node".
I'd <b>never</b> recycle as com. I'm not talking about recycling, I'm talking about pressing F4 above. The com shouldn't get to decide the outcome of the game. Percentage of players voted (by F4 or by a surrender vote when/if it gets implemented) should. (Democracy vs. dictatorship lulz?)
If I'm com and we've lost, I'll exit the com station, let the team know I'm surrendering, and vote for surrender by F4ing. If someone else wants to take over and continue the exercise in sheer stupidity after that, that's fine by me. I'll just wait for a game to play, i.e. people coming to their senses and surrendering so we can start a new, hopefully more balanced, round, while reading things in overlay, rather than waste my time.