<!--quoteo(post=2050933:date=Dec 25 2012, 04:25 PM:name=Sharp-Shooter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sharp-Shooter @ Dec 25 2012, 04:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050933"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i think ns2 color is too saturated, the colors just POP at you, while ns1 is very dull and "realistic" with the yellow tinge, another VERY HUGE part missing in ns2 is audio atmosphere for those if you saying ns2 is very atmospheric you are lucky, please do yourself a favor and do not go back to ns1 cause when you do you will realize ns2 looks like a childs version of ns1 when you compare<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
maps like ns_bast, ns_machina and ns_nothing in conjunction with the original ns1 soundtrack really gave us that creepy "alone in space" atmosphere. And that's exactly what NS2 is missing right now, the maps are simply "too clean".
I linked this video early in this thread and I'd like to link it again just to prove my point, this is ns_machina from ns1 days with the original soundtrack.
<!--quoteo(post=2050959:date=Dec 25 2012, 03:50 AM:name=Amb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Amb @ Dec 25 2012, 03:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050959"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->maps like ns_bast, ns_machina and ns_nothing in conjunction with the original ns1 soundtrack really gave us that creepy "alone in space" atmosphere. And that's exactly what NS2 is missing right now, the maps are simply "too clean".
I linked this video early in this thread and I'd like to link it again just to prove my point, this is ns_machina from ns1 days with the original soundtrack.
I really hope UWE would just put the NS1 soundtrack back in NS2 :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Maybe someone with some modding skills could put the NS1 soundtrack in NS2? Please? :)
In general I'd say a lot of the atmosphere comes from the gameplay rather than anything else. Hearing an onos running around (and having the ground shake) is more effective atmosphere wise in a fast paced shooter like NS than a few corpses lying around. If anything they would get seen once and then mentally ignored as not-a-skulk. If skulks could hide in the bodies then maybe, but thats far too campy.
What I wouldn't mind seeing is a map with a power core instead of a double res, where there is a big reactor type thing with either a giant power node or something. If the aliens hold it (room is full of infestation) lights start flickering around the rest of the map (apart from places with a command chair), and if the marines hold it they don't. To compensate it might want to be a slightly marine biased map, but with something a bit different to the common X rooms with RTs plus one double res.
<!--quoteo(post=2051061:date=Dec 25 2012, 12:30 PM:name=Tiomat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tiomat @ Dec 25 2012, 12:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051061"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In general I'd say a lot of the atmosphere comes from the gameplay rather than anything else. Hearing an onos running around (and having the ground shake) is more effective atmosphere wise in a fast paced shooter like NS than a few corpses lying around. ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have to agree. There's been several times where I've heard skulks running and I can't help but say to myself "Oh ######..." and start looking around nervously.
NS1 did have some nice atmosphere that wasn't dependent on players that gave the whole game that eerie feeling.
Right now the biggest atmosphere killer for me is the way the game handles sound. It feels like walls do not muffle sound enough and it's often hard to locate things happening solely on sound. Sometimes it sounds like a skulk is right next to me, when it's actually in a room on the other side of a 9 feet massive stone wall. Things like that should not happen, as they make the world feel "cheap" and "flimsy".
the general artwork is stuck between competitive and atmosphere.
from competitiveness: too many useless objects distracting focuses and attention, maps too fancy but no interaction with objects. its really just a fake eye candy.
from atmospthere: not scary enough at all but in ns 1.0 maps were way darker, maps a lot simplier and a lot less objects. yet it really does freak me off, even if i go back today. lightings is completely strange. i dunno how lava fall is bright as hell but other parts of refinery is relatively darker. dun make it like lava would make your night daytime please.
<!--quoteo(post=2051072:date=Dec 25 2012, 02:14 PM:name=rebirth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rebirth @ Dec 25 2012, 02:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051072"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Right now the biggest atmosphere killer for me is the way the game handles sound. It feels like walls do not muffle sound enough and it's often hard to locate things happening solely on sound. Sometimes it sounds like a skulk is right next to me, when it's actually in a room on the other side of a 9 feet massive stone wall. Things like that should not happen, as they make the world feel "cheap" and "flimsy".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> +1 biggest problem is the sound, i totally agree it has problems, it also lacks atmospherics sounds, like the subtle music in ns1, that made the game imersive and eerie feeling that feeling where your always wondering whats around the corner, also in ns1 i always had the feeling of being watched/stalked by a skulk somewhere
in ns2 im like who gives ill just sprint my way to alien hive and kill things, maybe crawl in a vent which i find is the safest place for a marine to be...when it shouldnt
i also find there is way too much light in a vent, ITS A VENT IT NEEDS TO BE DARK! dark to the point where a marine needs to have his flashlight on to navigate.
you know what i wish was in ns2 for ns1? the sound the hive emits, the deep bast pulse <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKU4zAxupI4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKU4zAxupI4</a>
<!--quoteo(post=2051072:date=Dec 26 2012, 06:14 AM:name=rebirth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rebirth @ Dec 26 2012, 06:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051072"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Right now the biggest atmosphere killer for me is the way the game handles sound. It feels like walls do not muffle sound enough and it's often hard to locate things happening solely on sound. Sometimes it sounds like a skulk is right next to me, when it's actually in a room on the other side of a 9 feet massive stone wall. Things like that should not happen, as they make the world feel "cheap" and "flimsy".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is the necessary consequence of having sounds ignore geometry. It is the better of two options (ignore/blocked), both for gameplay and for atmosphere. There isn't a partially blocked option. At one point, Simon had them on blocked and the soundscape was unbalanced, too soft (something you can't fix by increasing volumes), transitions around corners were jarring, and you couldn't soundspot anything out of visual range. Skulks in vents, skulks just around the next corner etc. were completely silent.
*edit* And i don't think spark can actually tell the difference between 9 feet of void space between mapper walls, and 9 feet of legit space inside a room. Probably related to not needing your maps to be sealed.
Ns2 does have okay atmosphere, but dunno it feels like the is a "constant stream" of ambient sound in ns2... its like there was some crazy fear of not having enough sound going on all the time - it ended up beeing too much most of the time, in my opinion.
You basically never have a situation where its "silent"(only player and some ambient like water dropping from a pipe etc) in ns2, giving you this scifi alone (in space) vibe... which you had in ns1, since the ambient music(real music and not just ambient sounds that are musicish) has a lot of variation and fades in and out or goes silent for a bit etc.
edit: okay you do get this vibe in ns2 too at times, but somehow it doesnt feel as pleasent/strong as watching some ns1 footage. (maybe i just miss the old times?) Its really hard to pinpoint.
I feel the maps in NS1 were more random, there were sections you could actually feel lost in the 100th time you stumbled your way there, like the cockpit. Or the water tunnel, we don't have water tunnel combat now :( or a 60ft drop that would kill you now, (Descent?).
I think NS2 has a decent atmosphere right now, but it is indeed a bit lacking on sounds. I have noticed times and times again that one of the most important factors in immersion in video games is actually sound, not graphics nor gameplay. When I play ns_bast for NS1 I'm much more sucked-in by the clever use of the sound rather than the aesthetics, even if they are brilliant. I mean just <i>take a listen</i> to sections such as Atmospheric Processing, Refinery or that sewer tunnel. They are absolutely mindblowing as far as sound is concerned. Coupled with the creepy visuals and lighting they create a very memorable experience. NS1 also had quite a lot of really awesome ambient sounds (the forcefield ones, various machinery and more eerie stuff, etc), and 'equals' are yet to be found on NS2. I've always found the sound in NS2 to be really too quiet and not memorable enough, I guess. I think maps like Refinery have found that gritty atmosphere and immersion factor again though, which is a very good thing.
<!--quoteo(post=2058737:date=Jan 10 2013, 05:45 PM:name=Skacky)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Skacky @ Jan 10 2013, 05:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2058737"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS1 also had quite a lot of really awesome ambient sounds (the forcefield ones, various machinery and more eerie stuff, etc), and 'equals' are yet to be found on NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
which makes wonder why UWE can't just recycle the ns1 ambience? They've already done it for ns2_docking, in that courtyard area.
It was not essentially gloomy, but it gave you an effect of solitude. It made you get itchy feet. The world was not accommodating, but not respulsive either. Every NS1 Map was a living creature, you really felt that. Environments by humans for humans, in such strange ways of fiction and creativity, even the simplicity of the engine made you awe a lot. It suggested you possibilities of a home, alienated not just by aliens, but by the strange wondrous ways everything was designed. Every map had something beyond it. Sometimes you couldn't tell - if that door could be opened or not, it just made you think that there may be something entirely new to this, without you noticing. You felt like an adventurer, as alien in a human world, for both races. The sudden fade in of the soundtrack, so simple but yet so calmingly seductive. It fitted in every game process. You felt lost a lot, even after the 100th time playing. But it was a fine thing, cause you're supposed to get to. It made you want to survive, it even made you hide when there were too much danger coming at you. NS2 doesn't let you breath that in, it's much more fast paced. The moment you stand somewhere, sucking in the environment, you lose. Also it's straight forward. There is no more adventure to it. You are not anymore getting into touch with the alien, you just beat it up as badly as you can. No more extra rooms, without any meaning but atmossphere. No more space between battlefields for a quick realizing where you are. There is a red line to every hive and command station, everything is most effective, which is good. But you are forced to fight, wherever you are, you can't beat the opponent with creativity, leading them into an environment trap, leading them in an atmosspherical trap. Making a way by not fighting. You have your gun and teeth and that's it.
What this game lacks is a simple little space time continuum where you can explore the world and catch a breath, to get in touch with it by character not by machine A-B thinking, having a buffer, before moving on to the next battle. Beeing on the most absent place of the whole map, where you can still make a change to the whole game outcome, just by playing, because you find something there, not because it's a gameplay object or element, but because you find an idea there. The Idea that you can take another path, a path of creativity, and still contribute to the game.
ÒŗăNģёJoin Date: 2012-02-09Member: 144437Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
There is always the editor tools to use, if you have a good vision on what a map should be please try to make one or collaborate with others.
IMO this game does have influences from Alien as do all genres benifit from those of the same type, but its hardly the same. Aliens vs marines that's about it. It's merely a genre of sci-fi like many others and the way the devs want to build around that genre is up to them. I for one think they are doing a fine job in making an "atmosphere" of aliens vs marines.
just watched some old beta footage and realised that features such as blood splat and marine screaming were both removed. Why is that? for the sake of being more PG friendly?
Comments
maps like ns_bast, ns_machina and ns_nothing in conjunction with the original ns1 soundtrack really gave us that creepy "alone in space" atmosphere. And that's exactly what NS2 is missing right now, the maps are simply "too clean".
I linked this video early in this thread and I'd like to link it again just to prove my point, this is ns_machina from ns1 days with the original soundtrack.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88bg7xofroo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88bg7xofroo</a>
I really hope UWE would just put the NS1 soundtrack back in NS2 :(
I linked this video early in this thread and I'd like to link it again just to prove my point, this is ns_machina from ns1 days with the original soundtrack.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88bg7xofroo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88bg7xofroo</a>
I really hope UWE would just put the NS1 soundtrack back in NS2 :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe someone with some modding skills could put the NS1 soundtrack in NS2? Please? :)
What I wouldn't mind seeing is a map with a power core instead of a double res, where there is a big reactor type thing with either a giant power node or something. If the aliens hold it (room is full of infestation) lights start flickering around the rest of the map (apart from places with a command chair), and if the marines hold it they don't. To compensate it might want to be a slightly marine biased map, but with something a bit different to the common X rooms with RTs plus one double res.
I have to agree. There's been several times where I've heard skulks running and I can't help but say to myself "Oh ######..." and start looking around nervously.
NS1 did have some nice atmosphere that wasn't dependent on players that gave the whole game that eerie feeling.
from competitiveness: too many useless objects distracting focuses and attention, maps too fancy but no interaction with objects. its really just a fake eye candy.
from atmospthere: not scary enough at all but in ns 1.0 maps were way darker, maps a lot simplier and a lot less objects. yet it really does freak me off, even if i go back today. lightings is completely strange. i dunno how lava fall is bright as hell but other parts of refinery is relatively darker. dun make it like lava would make your night daytime please.
+1
biggest problem is the sound, i totally agree it has problems, it also lacks atmospherics sounds, like the subtle music in ns1, that made the game imersive and eerie feeling that feeling where your always wondering whats around the corner, also in ns1 i always had the feeling of being watched/stalked by a skulk somewhere
in ns2 im like who gives ill just sprint my way to alien hive and kill things, maybe crawl in a vent which i find is the safest place for a marine to be...when it shouldnt
i also find there is way too much light in a vent, ITS A VENT IT NEEDS TO BE DARK! dark to the point where a marine needs to have his flashlight on to navigate.
you know what i wish was in ns2 for ns1? the sound the hive emits, the deep bast pulse
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKU4zAxupI4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKU4zAxupI4</a>
This is the necessary consequence of having sounds ignore geometry. It is the better of two options (ignore/blocked), both for gameplay and for atmosphere. There isn't a partially blocked option. At one point, Simon had them on blocked and the soundscape was unbalanced, too soft (something you can't fix by increasing volumes), transitions around corners were jarring, and you couldn't soundspot anything out of visual range. Skulks in vents, skulks just around the next corner etc. were completely silent.
*edit* And i don't think spark can actually tell the difference between 9 feet of void space between mapper walls, and 9 feet of legit space inside a room. Probably related to not needing your maps to be sealed.
You basically never have a situation where its "silent"(only player and some ambient like water dropping from a pipe etc) in ns2, giving you this scifi alone (in space) vibe... which you had in ns1, since the ambient music(real music and not just ambient sounds that are musicish) has a lot of variation and fades in and out or goes silent for a bit etc.
edit: okay you do get this vibe in ns2 too at times, but somehow it doesnt feel as pleasent/strong as watching some ns1 footage. (maybe i just miss the old times?)
Its really hard to pinpoint.
which makes wonder why UWE can't just recycle the ns1 ambience? They've already done it for ns2_docking, in that courtyard area.
What this game lacks is a simple little space time continuum where you can explore the world and catch a breath, to get in touch with it by character not by machine A-B thinking, having a buffer, before moving on to the next battle. Beeing on the most absent place of the whole map, where you can still make a change to the whole game outcome, just by playing, because you find something there, not because it's a gameplay object or element, but because you find an idea there. The Idea that you can take another path, a path of creativity, and still contribute to the game.
IMO this game does have influences from Alien as do all genres benifit from those of the same type, but its hardly the same. Aliens vs marines that's about it. It's merely a genre of sci-fi like many others and the way the devs want to build around that genre is up to them. I for one think they are doing a fine job in making an "atmosphere" of aliens vs marines.