<!--quoteo(post=2045145:date=Dec 13 2012, 04:49 PM:name=clankill3r)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clankill3r @ Dec 13 2012, 04:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045145"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would really love this to see in the next patch:
- delay before welding removed when powernode is down - gorge bile damage reduced by 20% for powernode's in a phase tech area - onos damage reduced by 30% for powernode's in a phase tech area - batterie can provide power for infantry portal, 1 baterie per IP, spawn time decrease by 3 seconds<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hidden bonuses are terrible.
Lets just remove powernodes requirement to power structures. Make them weak and turn the lights off, thats enough of a benefit that aliens will kill them.
Because after all, power nodes can't be nano-armored and it's impossible to block access to a power node with any high-HP marine structures like an armory or a factory in critical area's.
Oh...wait...
As to their merit as a game mechanic, I don't think it really matters. If it's swarmed by the entire Aliens team, including upgraded life forms, than it's game over one way or another. Kind of like how the entire Marines team shooting a hive is game over. It doesn't take long for either team to do this, but saying it's the only strategy that wins a map is an obvious fallacy if you've played the game.
And if it's just one or two players attacking...well I've knifed a hive down with one other player plenty of times. It relies on no response or an overly delayed response on either teams part along with no precautions guarding against it. (I.E. They didn't block the power node or never build crags.)
Right now a good player can take advantage of a crappy commander on either team being unprepared for a ninja assault by one or two players. I'd say that's working as intended.
EDIT: Also, it should be pointed out that both teams commanders have to pay for the protection they put on their critical area's. Crag heals cost T.Res, as does Nano armor and blocking structures. If anything Marines have an advantage, since they can both block the power node <i>and</i> provide a temporary massive boost to structure armor. I guess the on/off nature of crags balances it out with the active healing period being so short, but I'm not sure about that.
Would it be interesting to make it so killing a power node triggers a sort of count down?
Like after killing the power node, the power remains for 30 seconds, and then shuts off. this gives the marines a guaranteed 30 seconds to fend off the rush and restore power.
It makes it so a single skulk can still sneak in and maybe trigger the power down counter, but the marines have a better chance of preventing themselves from just losing right then.
At the same time, the reward for getting the power node down, is huge. Especially in fully upgraded marine bases, because it lets you effectively attack every structure in the base at once.
Powernodes should simply be light switches. Dead lights should fade in and out of darkness. Not this constantly on red lights. Arms labs when destroyed, the new arms lab should require researching.upgrades again (free), instead of the current auto lvl 3 upgrades. Duplicate arms labs require researching upgrades too. Give aliens a reason to kill arms labs.
<!--quoteo(post=2045209:date=Dec 13 2012, 06:04 PM:name=MisterNubs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MisterNubs @ Dec 13 2012, 06:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045209"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Powernodes should simply be light switches. Dead lights should fade in and out of darkness. Not this constantly on red lights. Arms labs when destroyed, the new arms lab should require researching.upgrades again (free), instead of the current auto lvl 3 upgrades. Duplicate arms labs require researching upgrades too. Give aliens a reason to kill arms labs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah this is a problem. Unless aliens destroy the entire base where an arms lab is, its very rare marines ever lose their tech. Too much health, and for good reason since its so vital.
Change it where comm chair can power everything except extractors & lights and leave powers nodes being able to power everything. This way, comm chair will serve as a redundant power node. The reason why you don't want to remove power nodes from tech points is setting up a forward base (phase gates, armory, etc.) without a comm chair. Also increase comm chair cost to 20-25 tRes.
I really think the power node idea isn't innately bad... but in it's current form it adds basically nothing of value to the game, and is the reason for a dozen broken subsystems or annoying mechanics in the game.
It's there already, it works, I don't want it to completely go away. But I'll be sorely disappointed if a "power node revamp" patch doesn't come down the line eventually. They are one of those things that just don't work well at all right now.
Power nodes should just have less HP and then take half a minute to power down the entire base. This means marines can still beacon and return to their base to defend it, but if aliens can hold out for half a minute then they can have claimed the entire base.
This is the only way to add anything to the game with power nodes, in my opinion at least; something you can hit so that if you can hold the area you can keep it, rather than just trying to take down one structure in there.
I don't really think power nodes should be required to power RTs though, at least not until harvesters stop getting resources when they're disconnected from infestation.
<!--quoteo(post=2045310:date=Dec 13 2012, 10:28 PM:name=ktr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ktr @ Dec 13 2012, 10:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045310"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Change it where comm chair can power everything except extractors & lights and leave powers nodes being able to power everything. This way, comm chair will serve as a redundant power node. The reason why you don't want to remove power nodes from tech points is setting up a forward base (phase gates, armory, etc.) without a comm chair. Also increase comm chair cost to 20-25 tRes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agree with this solution. Now for part 2 of why powernodes are broken: They double the marine build time for RTS in the field compared to NS1. It's one of the big reasons for marines losing so frequently in NS2 in my personal opinion.
<!--quoteo(post=2045317:date=Dec 13 2012, 07:50 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Swiftspear @ Dec 13 2012, 07:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045317"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Agree with this solution. Now for part 2 of why powernodes are broken: They double the marine build time for RTS in the field compared to NS1. It's one of the big reasons for marines losing so frequently in NS2 in my personal opinion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A simple solution to this is that all rooms with light (or all rooms) have an active, fully operational power node, like they are in some parts of Mineshaft. Exception would be inactive, damaged power node at the main hive, which should be an dark room.
(Edit) Made the suggestion, vote on it: <a href="http://goo.gl/mod/ZqzL" target="_blank"> <a href="http://goo.gl/mod/ZqzL" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/mod/ZqzL</a></a>
I know I'm a little late to the thread but I would like to hear some feedback.
I think powernodes should be upgradable. not in HP or armor, but rather being able to electrify them. similar to how it was in NS1, with the whole damge over time thing by being near them, but I would like to take in a slightly different route.
So basically it's an extremely quick upgrade, maybe 3 seconds to complete at max, cost 10 Tres. What it would do is shock anything near it. To an onos it would be just another sentry turret, but to a skulk it would quickly kill them if they sat on the powernode munching it. This would really help to alleviate the beacon for a couple skulks, instead of spending 10 Tres to beacon Everyone to base, you would spend 10 Tres to electrify and it would quickly knock the skulks off the powernode.
But it wouldn't stop the onos gorge push onto the powernode. You would still have to beacon for that. (as well as the multiple gorge bile bomb push)
Remove nodes, see where that leads us to. This coming from a primary Alien player. I kind of agree that marines get way too heavily shafted and too many easy wins are claimed by destroying these power nodes and that may lead to stupid nerfs for aliens that weren't necessary but people felt that they were obligatory because of the consensus that probably gets thrown off by stuff like this.
Right now I'm really starting get seriously annoyed by this stupid power node function. I just played 2 games, one as alien and one as marine.
Both times marines were winning and in the process of rushing alien hives.
So what do aliens do?
1 onos, a groge and a skulk rush the ######ing marine mainbase power node. That thing is down before beacon finishes and there u have another ######ed up gg.
Isn't really fun when you are alien and kills the game when u are marine.
Every time I see this kind of gameending I really wonder who the hell thought of this stupid stupid lame ass idea...
<!--quoteo(post=2045152:date=Dec 13 2012, 05:02 PM:name=Gliss)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gliss @ Dec 13 2012, 05:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045152"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=125921&view=findpost&p=2044458" target="_blank">excellent quotes Yuuki</a> that demonstrate how the power node is flawed <i>fundamentally</i>, so it's a waste of time to discuss things like their HP or weld rate :/<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
without conversation nothing ever gets changed. :)
EDIT: and I forgot to mention I primarily am an alien player as well. We win faaaaar too many games because we simply rush a power node after getting our asses handed to us for the first 20 min. Its gotten to the point where I simply don't enjoy to win like that. I don't feel it was an earned victory and its feels like i'm exploting a flawed game mechanic.
It's clear from the majority of people posting don't agree with how power is being handed at martne tech points.
Perhaps the idea of what others said remove power nodes from tech point locations only and see where that goes? Is it possible to set up a build to test this out? I would love to play a few games like this.
I added the suggestion, please vote one way or another if you have an opinion. - <a href="http://goo.gl/mod/DZu5" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/mod/DZu5</a>
JektJoin Date: 2012-02-05Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
Pretty much the quotes that Yuuki pulled together, but that's only scratching the surface of how often the power node system has been dissected by the beta community. Not including the build iterations that were dedicated to making the mess as presentable as possible.
EDIT: and I forgot to mention I primarily am an alien player as well. We win faaaaar too many games because we simply rush a power node after getting our asses handed to us for the first 20 min. Its gotten to the point where I simply don't enjoy to win like that. I don't feel it was an earned victory and its feels like i'm exploting a flawed game mechanic.
It's clear from the majority of people posting don't agree with how power is being handed at martne tech points.
Perhaps the idea of what others said remove power nodes from tech point locations only and see where that goes? Is it possible to set up a build to test this out? I would love to play a few games like this.
I added the suggestion, please vote one way or another if you have an opinion. - <a href="http://goo.gl/mod/DZu5" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/mod/DZu5</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Power at the tech points is the only real gameplay justification for power nodes in the first place. The ones at RTs are just busywork for both teams. If it's decided that power being killed at the base is a bad thing, then there's no purpose to keeping that mechanic at all.
<!--quoteo(post=2045704:date=Dec 14 2012, 09:55 AM:name=current1y)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (current1y @ Dec 14 2012, 09:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045704"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->without conversation nothing ever gets changed. :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> there's a difference between conversation and people literally wasting their time
it's obvious that there is a fundamental issue with the way the system is implemented, and tossing around random numbers (NS2-style of balance) is not going to fix that.
<!--quoteo(post=2045704:date=Dec 14 2012, 09:55 AM:name=current1y)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (current1y @ Dec 14 2012, 09:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045704"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->EDIT: and I forgot to mention I primarily am an alien player as well. We win faaaaar too many games because we simply rush a power node after getting our asses handed to us for the first 20 min. Its gotten to the point where I simply don't enjoy to win like that. I don't feel it was an earned victory and its feels like i'm exploting a flawed game mechanic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> yup this is exactly it and it hurts gameplay. no one is opposed to well-executed comebacks. it's an essential part of any game. but when the comeback feels like more of a cheese and relies on the lapse of attention of the marines, that isn't good gameplay. comebacks should be executed because you outplayed them, not because the commander interface doesn't alert you when power goes down.
so what do we have after the introduction of that box?
1. ninja phase becomes almost not doable 2. big red win button in base 3. additional time to build your rt, which is boring 4. oh. that thing doesnt support power for turrets 5. marine turtling becomes harder, a bit. if the pg is down before the box the outpost is gone anyway. 6. dun even bother to mention more.
basically #1 is enough to make the node GTFO. but there are just, sadly, too much more to argue against the node. yet another not-well-thought new game mechanic.
<!--quoteo(post=2045813:date=Dec 14 2012, 03:38 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Dec 14 2012, 03:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045813"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Power at the tech points is the only real gameplay justification for power nodes in the first place. The ones at RTs are just busywork for both teams. If it's decided that power being killed at the base is a bad thing, then there's no purpose to keeping that mechanic at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The only purpose for it is to show off the games lighting.
Well I've quickly throw together a mod that makes all the marine structures power independent. <a href="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=113584717" target="_blank">Link</a>. Would be interesting to see how it plays, but limits to what me and my 3-4 mates can really test.
Decided if they weren't useful then had to start with lights off if mapper didn't place the node already, and that they should be weaker so aliens have a reason to kill them.
<!--quoteo(post=2046339:date=Dec 15 2012, 01:31 PM:name=havok?)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (havok? @ Dec 15 2012, 01:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2046339"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The only purpose for it is to show off the games lighting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Make the buildings self powered. 2. Make the power node more easily destroyed/repaired. 3. Make the darkness last longer before emergency lights come on (maybe). 3a. If the darkness is set to a longer lasting duration, perhaps allow a cheap power node upgrade that enables quicker emergency lighting. 4. Remove the delay between destruction and being able to be repaired.
Make the lighting a tactical choice to take out during an assault. A more dynamic combat environment with changing light modes combined with more Marine flexibility and less slow down on tactical expansion. Not sure whats to lose.
<!--quoteo(post=2046370:date=Dec 15 2012, 04:53 PM:name=havok?)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (havok? @ Dec 15 2012, 04:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2046370"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->rt's and pg's should probably take a little longer to build than usual to compensate for not having to build nodes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Probably a good idea yes. I would like to see it in action though. Not putting up lighting may be a poor choice, so marines end up putting up the node anyway.
I am expecting though that with power only affecting the lights, and the node being weak (same hp as sentry node), that skulks will kill the node first if they intend to kill the RT - since any marine that comes in will be faced with darkness giving the advantage in escape or fighting to the skulk.
<!--quoteo(post=2046404:date=Dec 15 2012, 06:13 PM:name=SpaceJew)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SpaceJew @ Dec 15 2012, 06:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2046404"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are any servers actually running that at the moment?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No because I did it an hour ago and don't own a server. Would be sweet if someone could try it.
Edit:
A few more thoughts on the mod atm: <ul><li>Its nice for aliens to start in a dark room. I imagine that would make early game rushes harder on marines.</li><li>Lights start off to encourage marines to turn them on, as there is no point if aliens can break them once built. Means alien commander searching for marine base find it instantly, as its the only light room.</li><li>Sentries still require the batteries as I didn't want to go ripping apart how that all worked. Thoughts? 3 per room limit is something I would prefer to keep. Perhaps just remove the battery and allow placement anywhere, but keep the number limit.</li><li>Players cannot take the initiative and turn on sockets the first time, which I imagine would be annoying if your comm was dense and you wanted the lights on.</li><li>Placing structures still tries to build the socket, even though its not used. I will remove that once I allow players to build.</li><li>Perhaps needs to initially build faster? Weld is quicker since lower hp, just build rate that hasn't scaled.</li></ul>
<!--quoteo(post=2046408:date=Dec 15 2012, 06:21 PM:name=TimMc)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TimMc @ Dec 15 2012, 06:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2046408"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No because I did it an hour ago and don't own a server. Would be sweet if someone could try it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah, I figured since you did the mod you had a server. Ah well, I'll check back later.
When Flayra initially conceived of power, he had this glorious Company of Heroes style vision with territories linking to each other with modifiers and whatnot. Once he realised that wasn't such a smart/viable idea, he shoehorned power into the game with two functions - to provide a "win button" and to create light/dark gameplay. The "win button" is a poor cover-up of a wider problem to do with ending games and subtracts from the interesting decisions about what to structures to go for et cetera. The light/dark gameplay never really got going because the opportunity cost of chewing powernodes down has always been too large.
What we're left with is a watered down mechanic which is a waste of time except for the odd explosive, sudden and often cheesy impact on a game. We've discussed this ad nauseum in the beta stages and have seen a million iterations of power, each with its own set of problems. First the HP is too low, then it's too high, then it needs tweaking for the onos attack, then it needs welders to repair, then it needs to be built slower, then it needs to be built faster, then a 18sec cooldown needs to be introduced for rebuilding, then it needs to be adjusted for different damage types, then they need to be on to begin with, then they need clearer boundary delineation, then mappers have to play with area zones, then we need to invent powerpacks, then powerpacks need to be removed again... Basically, power has a set of fundamental problems and disadvantages that haven't been properly acknowledged and each response has failed to address the problem or created a new one instead. The only solution that kept power in the game without having a huge negative or broken effect on the game has been to marginalise them more and more.
Comments
- delay before welding removed when powernode is down
- gorge bile damage reduced by 20% for powernode's in a phase tech area
- onos damage reduced by 30% for powernode's in a phase tech area
- batterie can provide power for infantry portal, 1 baterie per IP, spawn time decrease by 3 seconds<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hidden bonuses are terrible.
Lets just remove powernodes requirement to power structures. Make them weak and turn the lights off, thats enough of a benefit that aliens will kill them.
Oh...wait...
As to their merit as a game mechanic, I don't think it really matters. If it's swarmed by the entire Aliens team, including upgraded life forms, than it's game over one way or another. Kind of like how the entire Marines team shooting a hive is game over. It doesn't take long for either team to do this, but saying it's the only strategy that wins a map is an obvious fallacy if you've played the game.
And if it's just one or two players attacking...well I've knifed a hive down with one other player plenty of times. It relies on no response or an overly delayed response on either teams part along with no precautions guarding against it. (I.E. They didn't block the power node or never build crags.)
Right now a good player can take advantage of a crappy commander on either team being unprepared for a ninja assault by one or two players. I'd say that's working as intended.
EDIT: Also, it should be pointed out that both teams commanders have to pay for the protection they put on their critical area's. Crag heals cost T.Res, as does Nano armor and blocking structures. If anything Marines have an advantage, since they can both block the power node <i>and</i> provide a temporary massive boost to structure armor. I guess the on/off nature of crags balances it out with the active healing period being so short, but I'm not sure about that.
Like after killing the power node, the power remains for 30 seconds, and then shuts off. this gives the marines a guaranteed 30 seconds to fend off the rush and restore power.
It makes it so a single skulk can still sneak in and maybe trigger the power down counter, but the marines have a better chance of preventing themselves from just losing right then.
At the same time, the reward for getting the power node down, is huge. Especially in fully upgraded marine bases, because it lets you effectively attack every structure in the base at once.
It might be a little too complex thought....
Yeah this is a problem. Unless aliens destroy the entire base where an arms lab is, its very rare marines ever lose their tech. Too much health, and for good reason since its so vital.
It's there already, it works, I don't want it to completely go away. But I'll be sorely disappointed if a "power node revamp" patch doesn't come down the line eventually. They are one of those things that just don't work well at all right now.
This is the only way to add anything to the game with power nodes, in my opinion at least; something you can hit so that if you can hold the area you can keep it, rather than just trying to take down one structure in there.
I don't really think power nodes should be required to power RTs though, at least not until harvesters stop getting resources when they're disconnected from infestation.
Agree with this solution. Now for part 2 of why powernodes are broken: They double the marine build time for RTS in the field compared to NS1. It's one of the big reasons for marines losing so frequently in NS2 in my personal opinion.
A simple solution to this is that all rooms with light (or all rooms) have an active, fully operational power node, like they are in some parts of Mineshaft. Exception would be inactive, damaged power node at the main hive, which should be an dark room.
(Edit) Made the suggestion, vote on it: <a href="http://goo.gl/mod/ZqzL" target="_blank"> <a href="http://goo.gl/mod/ZqzL" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/mod/ZqzL</a></a>
I think powernodes should be upgradable. not in HP or armor, but rather being able to electrify them. similar to how it was in NS1, with the whole damge over time thing by being near them, but I would like to take in a slightly different route.
So basically it's an extremely quick upgrade, maybe 3 seconds to complete at max, cost 10 Tres. What it would do is shock anything near it. To an onos it would be just another sentry turret, but to a skulk it would quickly kill them if they sat on the powernode munching it. This would really help to alleviate the beacon for a couple skulks, instead of spending 10 Tres to beacon Everyone to base, you would spend 10 Tres to electrify and it would quickly knock the skulks off the powernode.
But it wouldn't stop the onos gorge push onto the powernode. You would still have to beacon for that. (as well as the multiple gorge bile bomb push)
I just played 2 games, one as alien and one as marine.
Both times marines were winning and in the process of rushing alien hives.
So what do aliens do?
1 onos, a groge and a skulk rush the ######ing marine mainbase power node. That thing is down before beacon finishes and there u have another ######ed up gg.
Isn't really fun when you are alien and kills the game when u are marine.
Every time I see this kind of gameending I really wonder who the hell thought of this stupid stupid lame ass idea...
I think I'm quitting Marines until this is fixed.
without conversation nothing ever gets changed. :)
EDIT: and I forgot to mention I primarily am an alien player as well. We win faaaaar too many games because we simply rush a power node after getting our asses handed to us for the first 20 min. Its gotten to the point where I simply don't enjoy to win like that. I don't feel it was an earned victory and its feels like i'm exploting a flawed game mechanic.
It's clear from the majority of people posting don't agree with how power is being handed at martne tech points.
Perhaps the idea of what others said remove power nodes from tech point locations only and see where that goes? Is it possible to set up a build to test this out? I would love to play a few games like this.
I added the suggestion, please vote one way or another if you have an opinion. - <a href="http://goo.gl/mod/DZu5" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/mod/DZu5</a>
EDIT: and I forgot to mention I primarily am an alien player as well. We win faaaaar too many games because we simply rush a power node after getting our asses handed to us for the first 20 min. Its gotten to the point where I simply don't enjoy to win like that. I don't feel it was an earned victory and its feels like i'm exploting a flawed game mechanic.
It's clear from the majority of people posting don't agree with how power is being handed at martne tech points.
Perhaps the idea of what others said remove power nodes from tech point locations only and see where that goes? Is it possible to set up a build to test this out? I would love to play a few games like this.
I added the suggestion, please vote one way or another if you have an opinion. - <a href="http://goo.gl/mod/DZu5" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/mod/DZu5</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Power at the tech points is the only real gameplay justification for power nodes in the first place. The ones at RTs are just busywork for both teams. If it's decided that power being killed at the base is a bad thing, then there's no purpose to keeping that mechanic at all.
Give techpoint's powernode any form of defence against lone rusher.
there's a difference between conversation and people literally wasting their time
it's obvious that there is a fundamental issue with the way the system is implemented, and tossing around random numbers (NS2-style of balance) is not going to fix that.
<!--quoteo(post=2045704:date=Dec 14 2012, 09:55 AM:name=current1y)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (current1y @ Dec 14 2012, 09:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045704"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->EDIT: and I forgot to mention I primarily am an alien player as well. We win faaaaar too many games because we simply rush a power node after getting our asses handed to us for the first 20 min. Its gotten to the point where I simply don't enjoy to win like that. I don't feel it was an earned victory and its feels like i'm exploting a flawed game mechanic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yup this is exactly it and it hurts gameplay. no one is opposed to well-executed comebacks. it's an essential part of any game. but when the comeback feels like more of a cheese and relies on the lapse of attention of the marines, that isn't good gameplay. comebacks should be executed because you outplayed them, not because the commander interface doesn't alert you when power goes down.
1. ninja phase becomes almost not doable
2. big red win button in base
3. additional time to build your rt, which is boring
4. oh. that thing doesnt support power for turrets
5. marine turtling becomes harder, a bit. if the pg is down before the box the outpost is gone anyway.
6. dun even bother to mention more.
basically #1 is enough to make the node GTFO. but there are just, sadly, too much more to argue against the node. yet another not-well-thought new game mechanic.
The only purpose for it is to show off the games lighting.
Decided if they weren't useful then had to start with lights off if mapper didn't place the node already, and that they should be weaker so aliens have a reason to kill them.
1. Make the buildings self powered.
2. Make the power node more easily destroyed/repaired.
3. Make the darkness last longer before emergency lights come on (maybe).
3a. If the darkness is set to a longer lasting duration, perhaps allow a cheap power node upgrade that enables quicker emergency lighting.
4. Remove the delay between destruction and being able to be repaired.
Make the lighting a tactical choice to take out during an assault. A more dynamic combat environment with changing light modes combined with more Marine flexibility and less slow down on tactical expansion. Not sure whats to lose.
Probably a good idea yes. I would like to see it in action though. Not putting up lighting may be a poor choice, so marines end up putting up the node anyway.
I am expecting though that with power only affecting the lights, and the node being weak (same hp as sentry node), that skulks will kill the node first if they intend to kill the RT - since any marine that comes in will be faced with darkness giving the advantage in escape or fighting to the skulk.
No because I did it an hour ago and don't own a server. Would be sweet if someone could try it.
Edit:
A few more thoughts on the mod atm:
<ul><li>Its nice for aliens to start in a dark room. I imagine that would make early game rushes harder on marines.</li><li>Lights start off to encourage marines to turn them on, as there is no point if aliens can break them once built. Means alien commander searching for marine base find it instantly, as its the only light room.</li><li>Sentries still require the batteries as I didn't want to go ripping apart how that all worked. Thoughts? 3 per room limit is something I would prefer to keep. Perhaps just remove the battery and allow placement anywhere, but keep the number limit.</li><li>Players cannot take the initiative and turn on sockets the first time, which I imagine would be annoying if your comm was dense and you wanted the lights on.</li><li>Placing structures still tries to build the socket, even though its not used. I will remove that once I allow players to build.</li><li>Perhaps needs to initially build faster? Weld is quicker since lower hp, just build rate that hasn't scaled.</li></ul>
Ah, I figured since you did the mod you had a server. Ah well, I'll check back later.
What we're left with is a watered down mechanic which is a waste of time except for the odd explosive, sudden and often cheesy impact on a game. We've discussed this ad nauseum in the beta stages and have seen a million iterations of power, each with its own set of problems. First the HP is too low, then it's too high, then it needs tweaking for the onos attack, then it needs welders to repair, then it needs to be built slower, then it needs to be built faster, then a 18sec cooldown needs to be introduced for rebuilding, then it needs to be adjusted for different damage types, then they need to be on to begin with, then they need clearer boundary delineation, then mappers have to play with area zones, then we need to invent powerpacks, then powerpacks need to be removed again... Basically, power has a set of fundamental problems and disadvantages that haven't been properly acknowledged and each response has failed to address the problem or created a new one instead. The only solution that kept power in the game without having a huge negative or broken effect on the game has been to marginalise them more and more.