wall jump worth anything yet?
spaceturtle
Join Date: 2012-08-03 Member: 154714Members
Join Date: 2012-08-03 Member: 154714Members
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Also, I like turtles q_q .
A seperate issue is whether wall jump is even effective against decent players. I'm beginning to believe that it is not effective, and that netcode factors causing skulk warping and other hard to predict movements are what causes walljumping skulks to be relatively difficult to track. I think as performance improves we'll see alot more dead skulks.
Not to mention it seems to be an important element to accelerating your skulk beyond typical max speeds. (Fall speed w/ bunnyhopping > typical movement speed)
So essentially it's been worth something since launch, and it's up to you to use it cleverly or be one of those easy-to-kill skulks.
I don't even think it's wall jumping anymore, if you drop from a height you gain a short speed boost that used to be kept up by jumping off walls and also to other walls, now you're better off simply jumping from height and into a marine? But you might as well just drop on top of him if he doesn't spot you.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNLHGSzXySU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNLHGSzXySU</a> is one of the videos.
Anyway I'll just go on record as saying I don't like bunnyhopping <i>at all</i>, in any game ever. Yes, even quake.
However, is it fun? Not really.
NS1 didn't have walljump? Am i missing something?
No it didn't have walljump, it had bunnyhop.
i know this. Davil doesn't seem to. playtester indeed?
Experience isn't required to get in
The key is that speed and predictability were inversely proportioned in NS1. NS2 has made a right hash of this important relationship. To make things worse, NS2 wallhopping is largely reliant on quite frankly atrocious animations. It's quite shocking that the primary mode of transport, proudly touted as the sequel to the hugely successful bhop, has been allowed to operate within such an underwhelming animation framework for so long. I would have thought this would have been an <i>actual</i> priority i.e. <b>already sorted</b>.
The skill ceiling and people playing right below it are a horrible measure. There's always something to do slightly better, but that doesn't mean it's even remotely meaningful or interesting gameplay. When you actually hit the skill cap, the game is already doomed.
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For example:
Has SC2 skill ceiling been hit? No.
Meanwhile SC2 has reached a point where the vast majority of top tier gamers execute the game to almost the same level and a lot of rounds are decided by players making mistakes or strategical gambles rather than someone playing better overall. Apart from the early seasons of SC2, there hasn't been anyone establishing any kind of dominance like Flash or <a href="http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=226236" target="_blank">Savior</a> in Brood War by being simply miles ahead of other amazingly good players. And SC2 is suffering from it, people are complaining about stale gameplay and even the more consistently succesful players feel kind of indifferent because the game doesn't allow them to be amazingly good at anything.
Being 5% more efficient at something than your opponent may make you win 60% of the games, but it's hardly a crowd pleaser or an exciting goal to pursue.
I can't for the life of me figure out how it's supposed to be helpful in combat. I get on far better just generally running in non-straight lines / bouncing around a bit.
Honestly I kinda figured it was either taken out or broken or nerfed into oblivion, or otherwise just irrelevant in the current build. It certainly doesn't seem to function as it did when all those videos got released of people doing circuits of mineshaft in 50 seconds or something.
it seems to me you dont even play this game,
now regardless of what some people in this thread might think: it is a priority for us to fix this issue.
I can't for the life of me figure out how it's supposed to be helpful in combat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're not noticing it because you're not chaining jumps together. Using it in combat keeps your skulk moving at 8-9 speed instead of 7, a pretty big difference to marines without good aim or sens too high
turn debugspeed on and practice it until you can stop your speed from dipping down to 6/7
turn debugspeed on and practice it until you can stop your speed from dipping down to 6/7<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can get that it is theoretically possible to chain jumps together to achieve a slight speed boost, but the amount of difficulty involved in figuring out how to do it, and finding places to to it in (given that it appears to be incredibly picky about where it wants to trigger the effect) means that overall, it's just going to get me killed more.
I have no difficulty closing range with marines in combat, I don't really see why going for extra style points is a helpful thing in that situation. The hard part of combat is managing to land hits when everyone is bouncing around like an idiot, you and the marine both, and everyone is spinning around and phasing through each other and skulks are barrel rolling everywhichway and marines are bunnyhopping and everything is just chaos. Walljump isn't going to help with that because I have to aim for the marine, not the wall.
Even with new players, combat is decided far more in the melee phase than in the closing to attack phase. I suppose theoretically surviving that with more HP would boost your chances in the melee phase, but generally you die to other marines shooting into the cartoonish cloud of body parts that is the average skulk vs marine fight than you do the actual person you're fighting against. Or you simply die to a mass of stray bullets because it takes too long to land solid hits on your target and marines have a lot of bullets to spray wildly.
Baiscally walljump seems to fill a niche that doesn't need filling. It's already easy to get close to marines and at the distances where you need help, trying to parkour off the environment is going to mean moving away from your target and giving it time to shoot you.
~11min
This is just mostly them going in a straight line but in combat you still want to be jumping off walls, jumping when you hit the ground into another wall to keep your speed up, and taking bites in between when you can. If there's more marines coming you either need to just leave and not fight on your own, or at least try to stay on the side of the marine not facing the incoming marines (like you said, their shots get blocked by the marine you're fighting, that helps you)