<!--quoteo(post=2067713:date=Jan 28 2013, 01:44 AM:name=Flipper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flipper @ Jan 28 2013, 01:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2067713"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd love to see you get 6 and play either nxzl or all-in. I doubt you understand that strategies aren't as 'wild' in competitive play due to every res node usually being a battle to take and hold. Pub games don't see rez nodes getting chewed a lot, so rez is abundant for weird strats that cost a lot of rez. When your trying to hold onto 2 rez nodes as marines a stunning strategy is the last thing on your mind.
Comments like these just show your ignorance to the difference between pub and competitive strategies.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What pubs do you play on? Res chewing on random rts by pub aliens is absolutely commonplace. That's why experienced pub marine comms always end up getting mines.
When I play as marine comm or soldier, res is always in short supply. What a fantasy world you live in with your "abundant rez" comment.
My comment is based on my experience of pub play and my spectating experience of pro play. I am disgusted by the latter, and even more so for the elitist gibberish that comes out of those who constitute the "pro" scene. And I am clearly not alone in my revulsion.
<!--quoteo(post=2067827:date=Jan 28 2013, 07:45 AM:name=|strofix|)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (|strofix| @ Jan 28 2013, 07:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2067827"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your arrogance is most entertaining. Fair enough that you would call out someone whom you stomp 30-0 in a game for calling you bad, but you don't even know who we are. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, yet you feel so confident that you presumptuously assume that you must be better. All the while berating us for assuming that we know anything about competitive games. You are the ones that have killed this games competitive scene. Don't even try and put it on anyone else.
You see, when the competitive scene is booming, and you make remarks like you just did, it merely insights the desire to beat you in other competitive players. Unfortunately, NS2 has about 20 actively participating teams, so there isn't much to insight. Meanwhile everyone else that would compete merely thinks "wow, look at that jackass".
But that's fine, continue to preach your godliness for doing so well in such a limited community. Keep thinking that a group of counter strike players wouldn't decimate you with their superior aim in a matter of seconds, if they cared enough about this tiny little game. Keep glorifying your aim in this once strategic game. You're just turning the whole scene into COD.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As far as I know, there were players in that game that used to compete in Cal-p.
Interesting matches, i didnt expect to see so much siege usage tho. (but i didnt watch them all completely, its not that much fun watching the recording the next day with spoiled results)
Trolls aside, I'm a bit late to give my thanks for all of the fun I had watching Nexzil and All-In duke it out. (Just finished a 9 hour binge session of NS2.) I've had the good fortune to play with a bunch of you, and you're all good people, very fun to have as allies. I did feel bad watching that marathon game on Tram, though. I had Virsoul's stream going while I was watching the main stream, and I heard how tired everyone was getting.
I was impressed by All-In's wins, however. I wasn't expecting them at all, especially not that extremely lucky cloak rush. Just a second later and that wouldn't have worked. I mean no offense, but I've just come to expect stomp after stomp from Nexzil.
Can't wait for season 2. Hopefully the first content patch will have rolled out before then, and we'll see a lot of new things from everyone.
<!--quoteo(post=2067676:date=Jan 28 2013, 12:18 AM:name=Shino)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shino @ Jan 28 2013, 12:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2067676"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As a commander of the weaker team, I'm probably the weakest field player in the entire scrim. Every single field player there is probably better than me.
That said, I normally get ratios like 30 kills / 3 deaths in ######ty pubs. I have no doubt in my mind that every single player in that scrim could go 50-0 in a normal pub as an alien.
The reason why it seems like All-In marines cannot aim is because they're going against the best aliens in NA. Edakulous is the most notorious for being an aim-botter, capable of easily carrying a 12v12 marine team. And he's not even our best player.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You normally get 30-3 on "######ty pubs"? Nice. Way to help the community by degrading the vast majority of those who play the game. But both teams played worse than "######ty pubs" last night, so I don't really know what the point of that comment was. I've seen plenty of pub games where one or two players had better ratios than that, but that actually helped the team to win, something I'm sure someone like you doesn't do when they are on pubs, instead just score padding to ego-stroke. wp gg.
<!--quoteo(post=2067787:date=Jan 28 2013, 06:46 AM:name=Locklear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Locklear @ Jan 28 2013, 06:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2067787"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aliens won every game because they caught us by surprise with the camo rush, and then on Tram we just played like garbage tactically. Shooting was fantastic, lots of Fades and higher lifeforms dead, but no ground gained.
The funny thing though is how no one here can appreciate this scene at all, if we want the game to grow but we just sit around saying how garbage everyone is.. is that really a good thing for positive growth?
The type of posts and content I've read here is either flat out negative or completely ignorant. It's just really sad to see this kind of feedback.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Congrats on the higher lifeforms dead... too bad it amounted to squat and gave aliens a victory in the end. What exactly was the point of that epic 15minute 4 floating marines with shotguns fade killing spree outside warehouse? Was it just to show the viewers how awesome the understanding of "game mechanics" are? Because it didn't lead anywhere. If they'd save up for 2-3 onoses after they lost the first 2 fades, they woulda won much easier. Yes that's what happens on pubs. It's called strategy, pls learn.
<!--quoteo(post=2067816:date=Jan 28 2013, 08:23 AM:name=ColtColt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ColtColt @ Jan 28 2013, 08:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2067816"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Regarding TSADrone/Strofix/Other Guy I can't Remember from Page 1 whose entire post collection is nothing but trolling and useless rants,
You're awful. We've all been laughing at your bad posts and totally ignorant attitudes for the duration of your existence on the forums. Continue amusing us as we (all of us, even Shino) go 30:0 on you in pubs, all day, all night, and get "Banned for hacking" for having one or two of any of us (Nxzl, inv, All-In, any other team you care to name) against you. By all means, write up some retort... it's useless, because your gameplay and attitude about "Pubs with Rookies Being > Competitive Scene" is just flatly hilarious, and most of us just giggle as you make yourselves look like total clowns.
Funny how he replies to so-called "rants" with a gigantic rant of his own.
And, look, someone (Locklear, the guy who said it's sad to see such feedback as on this thread, and wants everyone to stay calm and civil), even decided to send me a gloating, insult-laden PM:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--QuoteEnd-->Removed at request of author</div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Two-faced much? You can only guess how "sad" it must have made him feel to write out that message to me.
Let's look at some of the key, argument-winning, insightful phrases in these two messages: "you're awful, we laugh at you, you are clowns" in the first; then: childish play on my name - SupaDupaDumb (how long did it take you to come up with that one, brainiac?), "we troll public servers, we make whole servers quit, your <b>retard</b> post." (What great hobbies these pros have! You've been warned pubbers, you gonna get trolled if you don't bow down and respect these pros! Also isn't it great that he goes to pub servers and screws around, looking for the highest kd ratio possible instead of helping the team he's on to actually win? The other guy also had a similar confession. This seems to be a common streak with these "pros".)
It's great to know that the high and mighty of the ns2 competitive scene takes such time and pains to read what we pubbers have to say. How sad you must be to have time for that between being so great. You play so lackadaisically, and yet you have such arrogance and snobbery towards the rest of us. Where does the arrogance come from? When you are so rubbish.
From the two or three "pros" who have been commenting here, it appears that any crappy play they shamelessly display to the rest of the ns2 community is absolved of critcism because the team they are playing is also "pro" and therefore "pro x pro = nooby gameplay" is OK. What a ridiculous argument.
The simple fact is that your play is uninspiring, and certainly won't help ns2 in terms of publicity, gaining prominence or increasing sales.
But more than anything, what is most unbecoming is this hatred, this indignant rage that comes when criticized as if we must all fawn and praise your humiliating, embarrassing game-play, just because you have designated yourself "pros".
It's so different to sc2 where the pros actually are better than the pubbers, with better tactics, strategy and understanding of the game-mechanics. They actually deserve respect. You guys do not.
Despite your baseless demands for respect, despite your contemptuous attitude towards the majority of ns2 players, I will not yield, and I will not give you what you so sorely want, unadulterated obsequiousness. And neither will others who have the common sense to call what is rubbish, rubbish.
You may have time to read all the comments and engage in insulting rants against us, thinking you are high-school jocks who we must be scared of ever to criticize. No. I do not. And I will not. I will not be contributing anything more to this thread. Please improve your game.
Lol at super mad pubbies who are talking so much ######...then get upset when they get flamed back. Of course your going to get flamed, because what you are saying is just dead wrong and its insulting to players who have worked/practised hard...there were some strategic errors of course, but the mechanical play is simply excellent. If you think pros from sc2 don't make strategic errors, you are probably some gold league kid thinking he knows whats going on there as well.
You can't watch a stream and really comprehend the skill level of the players playing because their advantages get countered by the other team also being extremely good. It may appear to you that nexzil/allin are doing the same ###### a good group of pubbers would do, but from first hand experience I can tell you that once your on the ground facing them, you would probably get like 1 kill before losing the game. You may feel this is arrogance since we "dont know who you are", but the fact of the matter is, if you were good enough to compete with the likes of nexzil, this is such a small community that we would know who you are.
Of course the strategy is similar to what you see in pubs, there just isn't that much variation in strategy, mostly what you will see is variation of positioning, timing, scouting and different tactics. You saw an example of (in my opinion) poor strategy variation by Nexzil in game 4. When that fight in ore went on for ages I would have liked to see the addition of a couple of ARCs on that side of warehouse. Later during the warehouse pushes, I feel that a complete about face and JP rush to server would also have been effective just sacing 1-2 ARCs to distract. But in the heat of a very close match its easy to make a mistake, or get really attached to a certain game plan.
LOL, dat Locklear PM. 42:1 so hard against a clearly terribad alien team. You so good. There was a green marine at 17:5!!!!! That last pub i saw "nxzl.kerrigan" in he/she ragequit after getting stuck around 14:15 or so as marine. There were some decent non-clan guys playing aliens, and it was glorious. I was 36-0 or so as skulk and some other guys were up there too. I only wish I had screencapped it, just to show how these "pros" don't have some sort of magic pub iwin button.
First i think its obvious Competitive players are usually better than pub players, and you cant compare a pub match to a competitive one, for many obvious reasons.
Second i dont have any doubts a good player can turn the tide easily in a pub game, as a marine or an alien. Seen many times that happen, that one player in the marines that can easily kill 2 or 3 skulks alone, or that skulk that takes on 2 or 3 marines alone. 90% of the times the team where that player is wins, simply because on the other side usually there isnt an equally skilled player, and mainly, organization.
Third i like watching competitive matches, but i didnt liked this ones, it always felt unbalanced, and you had an idea who was going to win at about 3 min in game, and marine play was poor ( when compared to other competitive matches).
Im a pub only player, and im not defending anyone, just stating the obvious.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2013
I loved when Bitey was trying to do 360 kills.
Anyone who says that either of these teams are bad, I encourage you to find 5 other people and play them, you will very likely get smashed to bits.
<!--quoteo(post=2067902:date=Jan 28 2013, 03:57 PM:name=rantology)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rantology @ Jan 28 2013, 03:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2067902"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the NA competitive scene has always been severely underdeveloped when compared to EU. Dunno what you guys were expecting but it was clearly too much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> +1 It is the same in every single game afaik. Competetive gaming is just bigger in europe. I'm thinking it goes down to something as simple as culture.
Ugh, guys, quit it with the comp vs pub. We all play this game because we love it. The comp scene is small as it is, we don't need to deter more people from joining. If you feel like you can do better than these guys, then please make/join a team. We would seriously love it if you did. Not because any of us wants to prove anything, or boost our ego. We seriously want more people to play against.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2013
Congrats to nexzil for a well deserved S1 NA championship title, and kudos to All-In for putting up a good fight.
I have no idea what the peeps in this thread are whining about. Nexzil made a few mistakes during that never-ending fourth round, but the main reason why they couldn't end the game was solid fading by Colt and clever, patient, play by All-In.
Considering the "quality" of the posts in here, though, I guess I'm not surprised that many of the posters don't even have a basic understanding of how that game progressed or why it progressed as it did.
fter reading this thread, I feel one thing needs to be made clear to competitive players and pub players. I am by far the best NS2 player on this planet. This means that you are all bad because I am the best.
While I agree our tactics and strategy faltered in the Tram game, I do not agree with this negativity aimed at our skill individually or that our play is somehow worse than what you would experience in a public match. In a 8v8-12v12 there is not nearly as much individual skill required to win. In 6v6.. every player counts and if any one person fails it can make a big difference in the match.
Some of the strategies you saw were "powerplays" or "cheese" and that happens in matches when a team feels like they have to do it to take a round from their opponent within the first 2 minutes or so of the game. Like a 6pool in SC2.
Lastly,
I apologize for what was said to SupaDupa.. I wasn't representing my team when I said that but actually just being a drunk tard.
Also a bring thanks to all my All-In players even the one's that have left us. With out you guy's there would be no All-In.
Now for the 3 trolls, SupaDupaNoodle , TSADrone and |strofix|, if you guys feel you can do as good or better. I'm calling you guys out to a scrim. It can be streamed by Nexzil since they have a good fan base. You 3 should have no issues finding 3 more to make a team. And we will let you pick the maps. If you don't put up you might as well stop talking. And you guys will look like dip shats. So hope to hear back from one of you.
And again congrats to ALL the ENSL S1 teams. Hope to see you in S2.
Entertaining show for sure. Reminds me of the 50 minute nexzil vs Inversion game on Tram in the beta tournaments.
Grats to Nexzil on being the ENSL NA division 1 champs.
Those games... just like back in the day. All-In put quite a fight in all those games! I can't wait until season 2. I know everyone is going to be improving. I hope to see new faces too!
First of: I loved the matches. nexzil won, as they deserved to (based on the 5 matches I saw).
My review of the matches (some questions aswell). Keep in mind I only play pub when you read (and decide) to answer questions.
The first round:
I found the pg placement in system waypoint rather bad. Why was sw chosen over sub, sub is much ieasier to defend and more open then sw. Also all-in conintued retaking topo while in my opion sub would have been a better placement for the guy going topo all the time (but hey, who am I ).
Overal this game was pretty fast decided because aliens took nano, I wondered why all-in didn't build an arc to just start annoying nano from west junction, they where constantly walking over there so I doubt it would have gone down fast. It would atleast have taken some pressure of topo so they could gain some res.
The second round:
This round made me smile. At first i was like huh? Camo? But then I had a lulz for the fast round. Anyway I don't think that even if the camo rush was fended of the rines could have won. If you wanna win veil as rines you need to rush either pipe or sub fast (when nano is taken by gorges) if you wanna win, atleast that's my view on veil play. A recal (and fend of) of marines would just mean you get a sort - of delayed game start.
The third round:
Nothing special about this round. Just w/p.
The 4th round:
In my opinoin the alien com started rather slow. First harvester placement is at around 40 sec (crag evolve right away) and after that com (Shino) decides to go gorge and place some hydra's in north tunnels? At this point it's clear there are no marines in warehouse so this was kinda a "wth is he doing" moment for me. A alien com should always expand asap especially when the other team's main location is known.
Then when com has 40 res he's not dropping the hive until he get's like 65 res. Then after this he still has an abundand of res but doesn't decide to drop more then 1 crag. I start wondering if this is because of upgrades, but even after 2nd hive evolves his res amount stays at a steady 30-50 all the time.
If I heard correct the com was rather new, I wonder if he directed game or someone else on map did.
I loved the bilebomb edakulous managed to pull off at 21 mins ingame, that was a well played move from all-in there. From that point on tho they should just have saved up for 2 onos if you ask me tho. I also wondered if that armory actually did block camage at like 23:30. And if it didn't and camage decided not to progress further because he either would get killed or the armory would provide a to much of an advantage he could have known that 3-4 shotgunner where waiting behind it at that point.
The last round:
Why did the com stop scanning there? He had res for it and based on the fact that only a couple of crags where near the hive at the start of the arc attack he could have know it was pretty low. Or was he pre-surrendering because of the global map control?
To bad it wasn't a atrium vs sub game, would have made it a bit more tense I suppose.
I know alot of these comments are rather easy when watching from spectator mode so forgive me If I not know better . I'd still love to see some feedback and views of one or more of the players. I love new insights on tactics.
First of: I loved the matches. nexzil won, as they deserved to (based on the 5 matches I saw).
My review of the matches (some questions aswell). Keep in mind I only play pub when you read (and decide) to answer questions.
The first round:
I found the pg placement in system waypoint rather bad. Why was sw chosen over sub, sub is much ieasier to defend and more open then sw. Also all-in conintued retaking topo while in my opion sub would have been a better placement for the guy going topo all the time (but hey, who am I ).
Overal this game was pretty fast decided because aliens took nano, I wondered why all-in didn't build an arc to just start annoying nano from west junction, they where constantly walking over there so I doubt it would have gone down fast. It would atleast have taken some pressure of topo so they could gain some res.
The second round:
This round made me smile. At first i was like huh? Camo? But then I had a lulz for the fast round. Anyway I don't think that even if the camo rush was fended of the rines could have won. If you wanna win veil as rines you need to rush either pipe or sub fast (when nano is taken by gorges) if you wanna win, atleast that's my view on veil play. A recal (and fend of) of marines would just mean you get a sort - of delayed game start.
The third round:
Nothing special about this round. Just w/p.
The 4th round:
In my opinoin the alien com started rather slow. First harvester placement is at around 40 sec (crag evolve right away) and after that com (Shino) decides to go gorge and place some hydra's in north tunnels? At this point it's clear there are no marines in warehouse so this was kinda a "wth is he doing" moment for me. A alien com should always expand asap especially when the other team's main location is known.
Then when com has 40 res he's not dropping the hive until he get's like 65 res. Then after this he still has an abundand of res but doesn't decide to drop more then 1 crag. I start wondering if this is because of upgrades, but even after 2nd hive evolves his res amount stays at a steady 30-50 all the time.
If I heard correct the com was rather new, I wonder if he directed game or someone else on map did.
I loved the bilebomb edakulous managed to pull off at 21 mins ingame, that was a well played move from all-in there. From that point on tho they should just have saved up for 2 onos if you ask me tho. I also wondered if that armory actually did block camage at like 23:30. And if it didn't and camage decided not to progress further because he either would get killed or the armory would provide a to much of an advantage he could have known that 3-4 shotgunner where waiting behind it at that point.
The last round:
Why did the com stop scanning there? He had res for it and based on the fact that only a couple of crags where near the hive at the start of the arc attack he could have know it was pretty low. Or was he pre-surrendering because of the global map control?
To bad it wasn't a atrium vs sub game, would have made it a bit more tense I suppose.
I know alot of these comments are rather easy when watching from spectator mode so forgive me If I not know better . I'd still love to see some feedback and views of one or more of the players. I love new insights on tactics.
1) System Waypointing is actually a very good Phase Gate for controlling the left side of the map and also making attacks/defenses into NanoGrid while C-12 is hit from Topographical in conjunction with a Cargo attack. It's just a nice place for Marines to fight in defense of their forward base as well (sub-sector or whatever they have setup in system waypointing) - it's quite a marine favored room.
I agree that you can ARC out Nano when you hold System/West Junction.. but they failed to hold System. In our normal season matches versus All-in when I was Commanding I have us ARC out Nano to a great effect. Stalling their tech also with C-12 hits bringing their RT count down to 2 for the rest of the game. It can be effective if done right.
2) Camo can be effective but my team definitely dropped the ball in spotting it as well as the build order chosen to go 2nd Infantry Portal before the Observatory. Veil is a big map and you aren't reinforcing ANYWHERE fast except your naturals until you have a Phase Gate up anyways.
3) I agree, the Marines just weren't able to get anything going.
4) The Alien Commander actually expanded pretty much in the most standard way currently. 1 RT with quick Carapace. This is standard on any map besides Veil. By 3 minutes and by the time my team had two men in Ore Processing, Shino was planting the Harvester in Warehouse. Which would've been optimal for my team to hit once they hit Mezzanine with a 5skulk mass hit on the 3 Marines there. Unfortunately it didn't happen for us which was our first mistake that round.
An Alien Commander should not "always" expand right from the start. Expanding and blind dropping are the worst things you can do against good Marine teams. There are definitely choices and decisions to be made based on the amount of aliens you have on the field and the Marine head count you have and your knowledge of where they are.
Sometimes Hive drops are a little delayed to make sure they aren't dropping it into an incoming swarm of Marines. More of a communication/intel issue if anything.
5) The last round was a "powerplay" or "cheese" and I agree the execution was pretty poor.
The first round:
I found the pg placement in system waypoint rather bad. Why was sw chosen over sub, sub is much ieasier to defend and more open then sw. Also all-in conintued retaking topo while in my opion sub would have been a better placement for the guy going topo all the time (but hey, who am I ).
Overal this game was pretty fast decided because aliens took nano, I wondered why all-in didn't build an arc to just start annoying nano from west junction, they where constantly walking over there so I doubt it would have gone down fast. It would atleast have taken some pressure of topo so they could gain some res.
this is one of the most common mistakes pub marine teams make.
You want a phase gate in a position where it will help you hold your res nodes, and apply pressure to the alien's hive / res nodes.
A phase gate in sub, lets you hold sub res node.
A phase gate in system waypointing, lets you defend sub res node, pressure double, pressure cargo...
If the aliens have cargo or pipe, holding system makes it way harder for them to apply good pressure to overlook, west skylights, and sub. Basically you can hold 3 res nodes reasonably effectively from one room, AND you can stage attacks on alien res nodes and hives from the same room.
This applies in basically every map. Generally speaking, the rooms between tech points are a better place for a phase gate than the tech points themselves, because they allow you to exert pressure and defend res nodes and segment the map thus giving you a much better position.
Comments
Comments like these just show your ignorance to the difference between pub and competitive strategies.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What pubs do you play on? Res chewing on random rts by pub aliens is absolutely commonplace. That's why experienced pub marine comms always end up getting mines.
When I play as marine comm or soldier, res is always in short supply. What a fantasy world you live in with your "abundant rez" comment.
My comment is based on my experience of pub play and my spectating experience of pro play. I am disgusted by the latter, and even more so for the elitist gibberish that comes out of those who constitute the "pro" scene. And I am clearly not alone in my revulsion.
You see, when the competitive scene is booming, and you make remarks like you just did, it merely insights the desire to beat you in other competitive players. Unfortunately, NS2 has about 20 actively participating teams, so there isn't much to insight. Meanwhile everyone else that would compete merely thinks "wow, look at that jackass".
But that's fine, continue to preach your godliness for doing so well in such a limited community. Keep thinking that a group of counter strike players wouldn't decimate you with their superior aim in a matter of seconds, if they cared enough about this tiny little game. Keep glorifying your aim in this once strategic game. You're just turning the whole scene into COD.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As far as I know, there were players in that game that used to compete in Cal-p.
Gz nexzil! And great job all-in!
I was impressed by All-In's wins, however. I wasn't expecting them at all, especially not that extremely lucky cloak rush. Just a second later and that wouldn't have worked. I mean no offense, but I've just come to expect stomp after stomp from Nexzil.
Can't wait for season 2. Hopefully the first content patch will have rolled out before then, and we'll see a lot of new things from everyone.
That said, I normally get ratios like 30 kills / 3 deaths in ######ty pubs. I have no doubt in my mind that every single player in that scrim could go 50-0 in a normal pub as an alien.
The reason why it seems like All-In marines cannot aim is because they're going against the best aliens in NA. Edakulous is the most notorious for being an aim-botter, capable of easily carrying a 12v12 marine team. And he's not even our best player.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You normally get 30-3 on "######ty pubs"? Nice. Way to help the community by degrading the vast majority of those who play the game. But both teams played worse than "######ty pubs" last night, so I don't really know what the point of that comment was. I've seen plenty of pub games where one or two players had better ratios than that, but that actually helped the team to win, something I'm sure someone like you doesn't do when they are on pubs, instead just score padding to ego-stroke. wp gg.
<!--quoteo(post=2067787:date=Jan 28 2013, 06:46 AM:name=Locklear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Locklear @ Jan 28 2013, 06:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2067787"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aliens won every game because they caught us by surprise with the camo rush, and then on Tram we just played like garbage tactically. Shooting was fantastic, lots of Fades and higher lifeforms dead, but no ground gained.
The funny thing though is how no one here can appreciate this scene at all, if we want the game to grow but we just sit around saying how garbage everyone is.. is that really a good thing for positive growth?
The type of posts and content I've read here is either flat out negative or completely ignorant. It's just really sad to see this kind of feedback.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Congrats on the higher lifeforms dead... too bad it amounted to squat and gave aliens a victory in the end. What exactly was the point of that epic 15minute 4 floating marines with shotguns fade killing spree outside warehouse? Was it just to show the viewers how awesome the understanding of "game mechanics" are? Because it didn't lead anywhere. If they'd save up for 2-3 onoses after they lost the first 2 fades, they woulda won much easier. Yes that's what happens on pubs. It's called strategy, pls learn.
<!--quoteo(post=2067816:date=Jan 28 2013, 08:23 AM:name=ColtColt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ColtColt @ Jan 28 2013, 08:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2067816"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Regarding TSADrone/Strofix/Other Guy I can't Remember from Page 1 whose entire post collection is nothing but trolling and useless rants,
You're awful. We've all been laughing at your bad posts and totally ignorant attitudes for the duration of your existence on the forums. Continue amusing us as we (all of us, even Shino) go 30:0 on you in pubs, all day, all night, and get "Banned for hacking" for having one or two of any of us (Nxzl, inv, All-In, any other team you care to name) against you. By all means, write up some retort... it's useless, because your gameplay and attitude about "Pubs with Rookies Being > Competitive Scene" is just flatly hilarious, and most of us just giggle as you make yourselves look like total clowns.
...
Sincerely,
All-In | Colt<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Funny how he replies to so-called "rants" with a gigantic rant of his own.
And, look, someone (Locklear, the guy who said it's sad to see such feedback as on this thread, and wants everyone to stay calm and civil), even decided to send me a gloating, insult-laden PM:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--QuoteEnd-->Removed at request of author</div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Two-faced much? You can only guess how "sad" it must have made him feel to write out that message to me.
Let's look at some of the key, argument-winning, insightful phrases in these two messages: "you're awful, we laugh at you, you are clowns" in the first; then: childish play on my name - SupaDupaDumb (how long did it take you to come up with that one, brainiac?), "we troll public servers, we make whole servers quit, your <b>retard</b> post." (What great hobbies these pros have! You've been warned pubbers, you gonna get trolled if you don't bow down and respect these pros! Also isn't it great that he goes to pub servers and screws around, looking for the highest kd ratio possible instead of helping the team he's on to actually win? The other guy also had a similar confession. This seems to be a common streak with these "pros".)
It's great to know that the high and mighty of the ns2 competitive scene takes such time and pains to read what we pubbers have to say. How sad you must be to have time for that between being so great. You play so lackadaisically, and yet you have such arrogance and snobbery towards the rest of us. Where does the arrogance come from? When you are so rubbish.
From the two or three "pros" who have been commenting here, it appears that any crappy play they shamelessly display to the rest of the ns2 community is absolved of critcism because the team they are playing is also "pro" and therefore "pro x pro = nooby gameplay" is OK. What a ridiculous argument.
The simple fact is that your play is uninspiring, and certainly won't help ns2 in terms of publicity, gaining prominence or increasing sales.
But more than anything, what is most unbecoming is this hatred, this indignant rage that comes when criticized as if we must all fawn and praise your humiliating, embarrassing game-play, just because you have designated yourself "pros".
It's so different to sc2 where the pros actually are better than the pubbers, with better tactics, strategy and understanding of the game-mechanics. They actually deserve respect. You guys do not.
Despite your baseless demands for respect, despite your contemptuous attitude towards the majority of ns2 players, I will not yield, and I will not give you what you so sorely want, unadulterated obsequiousness. And neither will others who have the common sense to call what is rubbish, rubbish.
You may have time to read all the comments and engage in insulting rants against us, thinking you are high-school jocks who we must be scared of ever to criticize. No. I do not. And I will not. I will not be contributing anything more to this thread. Please improve your game.
You can't watch a stream and really comprehend the skill level of the players playing because their advantages get countered by the other team also being extremely good. It may appear to you that nexzil/allin are doing the same ###### a good group of pubbers would do, but from first hand experience I can tell you that once your on the ground facing them, you would probably get like 1 kill before losing the game. You may feel this is arrogance since we "dont know who you are", but the fact of the matter is, if you were good enough to compete with the likes of nexzil, this is such a small community that we would know who you are.
Of course the strategy is similar to what you see in pubs, there just isn't that much variation in strategy, mostly what you will see is variation of positioning, timing, scouting and different tactics. You saw an example of (in my opinion) poor strategy variation by Nexzil in game 4. When that fight in ore went on for ages I would have liked to see the addition of a couple of ARCs on that side of warehouse. Later during the warehouse pushes, I feel that a complete about face and JP rush to server would also have been effective just sacing 1-2 ARCs to distract. But in the heat of a very close match its easy to make a mistake, or get really attached to a certain game plan.
I KNOW PUBBERS THAT CAN KICK YOUR ASS
That last pub i saw "nxzl.kerrigan" in he/she ragequit after getting stuck around 14:15 or so as marine. There were some decent non-clan guys playing aliens, and it was glorious. I was 36-0 or so as skulk and some other guys were up there too. I only wish I had screencapped it, just to show how these "pros" don't have some sort of magic pub iwin button.
Also inb4 fascist mod lock.
Just read some post and want to say some things
First i think its obvious Competitive players are usually better than pub players, and you cant compare a pub match to a competitive one, for many obvious reasons.
Second i dont have any doubts a good player can turn the tide easily in a pub game, as a marine or an alien. Seen many times that happen, that one player in the marines that can easily kill 2 or 3 skulks alone, or that skulk that takes on 2 or 3 marines alone. 90% of the times the team where that player is wins, simply because on the other side usually there isnt an equally skilled player, and mainly, organization.
Third i like watching competitive matches, but i didnt liked this ones, it always felt unbalanced, and you had an idea who was going to win at about 3 min in game, and marine play was poor ( when compared to other competitive matches).
Im a pub only player, and im not defending anyone, just stating the obvious.
Anyone who says that either of these teams are bad, I encourage you to find 5 other people and play them, you will very likely get smashed to bits.
<!--quoteo(post=2067902:date=Jan 28 2013, 03:57 PM:name=rantology)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rantology @ Jan 28 2013, 03:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2067902"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the NA competitive scene has always been severely underdeveloped when compared to EU. Dunno what you guys were expecting but it was clearly too much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
It is the same in every single game afaik. Competetive gaming is just bigger in europe.
I'm thinking it goes down to something as simple as culture.
And oh! Congrats on the championship nexzil! <3
jk
but I would like to thank both teams for the match, I was hoping to see more marine pwnage from edak though :/
I have no idea what the peeps in this thread are whining about. Nexzil made a few mistakes during that never-ending fourth round, but the main reason why they couldn't end the game was solid fading by Colt and clever, patient, play by All-In.
Considering the "quality" of the posts in here, though, I guess I'm not surprised that many of the posters don't even have a basic understanding of how that game progressed or why it progressed as it did.
Now that this has been cleared up, what do I win?
Some of the strategies you saw were "powerplays" or "cheese" and that happens in matches when a team feels like they have to do it to take a round from their opponent within the first 2 minutes or so of the game. Like a 6pool in SC2.
Lastly,
I apologize for what was said to SupaDupa.. I wasn't representing my team when I said that but actually just being a drunk tard.
Also a bring thanks to all my All-In players even the one's that have left us. With out you guy's there would be no All-In.
Now for the 3 trolls, SupaDupaNoodle , TSADrone and |strofix|, if you guys feel you can do as good or better. I'm calling you guys out to a scrim. It can be streamed by Nexzil since they have a good fan base. You 3 should have no issues finding 3 more to make a team. And we will let you pick the maps. If you don't put up you might as well stop talking. And you guys will look like dip shats. So hope to hear back from one of you.
And again congrats to ALL the ENSL S1 teams. Hope to see you in S2.
GG's
Grats to Nexzil on being the ENSL NA division 1 champs.
Those games... just like back in the day. All-In put quite a fight in all those games! I can't wait until season 2. I know everyone is going to be improving. I hope to see new faces too!
Grats bros
My review of the matches (some questions aswell). Keep in mind I only play pub when you read (and decide) to answer questions.
The first round:
I found the pg placement in system waypoint rather bad. Why was sw chosen over sub, sub is much ieasier to defend and more open then sw. Also all-in conintued retaking topo while in my opion sub would have been a better placement for the guy going topo all the time (but hey, who am I
Overal this game was pretty fast decided because aliens took nano, I wondered why all-in didn't build an arc to just start annoying nano from west junction, they where constantly walking over there so I doubt it would have gone down fast. It would atleast have taken some pressure of topo so they could gain some res.
The second round:
This round made me smile. At first i was like huh? Camo? But then I had a lulz for the fast round. Anyway I don't think that even if the camo rush was fended of the rines could have won. If you wanna win veil as rines you need to rush either pipe or sub fast (when nano is taken by gorges) if you wanna win, atleast that's my view on veil play. A recal (and fend of) of marines would just mean you get a sort - of delayed game start.
The third round:
Nothing special about this round. Just w/p.
The 4th round:
In my opinoin the alien com started rather slow. First harvester placement is at around 40 sec (crag evolve right away) and after that com (Shino) decides to go gorge and place some hydra's in north tunnels? At this point it's clear there are no marines in warehouse so this was kinda a "wth is he doing" moment for me. A alien com should always expand asap especially when the other team's main location is known.
Then when com has 40 res he's not dropping the hive until he get's like 65 res. Then after this he still has an abundand of res but doesn't decide to drop more then 1 crag. I start wondering if this is because of upgrades, but even after 2nd hive evolves his res amount stays at a steady 30-50 all the time.
If I heard correct the com was rather new, I wonder if he directed game or someone else on map did.
I loved the bilebomb edakulous managed to pull off at 21 mins ingame, that was a well played move from all-in there. From that point on tho they should just have saved up for 2 onos if you ask me tho. I also wondered if that armory actually did block camage at like 23:30. And if it didn't and camage decided not to progress further because he either would get killed or the armory would provide a to much of an advantage he could have known that 3-4 shotgunner where waiting behind it at that point.
The last round:
Why did the com stop scanning there? He had res for it and based on the fact that only a couple of crags where near the hive at the start of the arc attack he could have know it was pretty low. Or was he pre-surrendering because of the global map control?
To bad it wasn't a atrium vs sub game, would have made it a bit more tense I suppose.
I know alot of these comments are rather easy when watching from spectator mode so forgive me If I not know better
1) System Waypointing is actually a very good Phase Gate for controlling the left side of the map and also making attacks/defenses into NanoGrid while C-12 is hit from Topographical in conjunction with a Cargo attack. It's just a nice place for Marines to fight in defense of their forward base as well (sub-sector or whatever they have setup in system waypointing) - it's quite a marine favored room.
I agree that you can ARC out Nano when you hold System/West Junction.. but they failed to hold System. In our normal season matches versus All-in when I was Commanding I have us ARC out Nano to a great effect. Stalling their tech also with C-12 hits bringing their RT count down to 2 for the rest of the game. It can be effective if done right.
2) Camo can be effective but my team definitely dropped the ball in spotting it as well as the build order chosen to go 2nd Infantry Portal before the Observatory. Veil is a big map and you aren't reinforcing ANYWHERE fast except your naturals until you have a Phase Gate up anyways.
3) I agree, the Marines just weren't able to get anything going.
4) The Alien Commander actually expanded pretty much in the most standard way currently. 1 RT with quick Carapace. This is standard on any map besides Veil. By 3 minutes and by the time my team had two men in Ore Processing, Shino was planting the Harvester in Warehouse. Which would've been optimal for my team to hit once they hit Mezzanine with a 5skulk mass hit on the 3 Marines there. Unfortunately it didn't happen for us which was our first mistake that round.
An Alien Commander should not "always" expand right from the start. Expanding and blind dropping are the worst things you can do against good Marine teams. There are definitely choices and decisions to be made based on the amount of aliens you have on the field and the Marine head count you have and your knowledge of where they are.
Sometimes Hive drops are a little delayed to make sure they aren't dropping it into an incoming swarm of Marines. More of a communication/intel issue if anything.
5) The last round was a "powerplay" or "cheese" and I agree the execution was pretty poor.