Exploitation. Here we go.
|strofix|
Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165453Members
Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165453Members
I've taken enough heat over this that I think it requires its own thread. If for nothing else than to simply try and save what little face I had left on this forum, in some misguided and pointless way.
So, what do you consider an exploit?
Here are some things that I consider exploits:
Multiple speed boosts off the same wall as skulk
Running up near vertical surfaces as marine
Hiding inside the hives model as marine
Locking yourself inside the command station as a skulk
Note: By no stretch of the imagination do I view these as cheats. If I did, I would clearly label them as "cheats", or possibly "hacks". Exploits are not cheats, nor are they hacks. A good example of a widely accepted exploit in a game is bunny hopping in the goldsource engine. While this exploit was widely accepted and used by almost all players, it was still, none the less, an exploit, and should continue to be labeled as such. This does not mean that I view myself as superior to players who use these exploits, nor does it mean that I myself do not make liberal use of them. It simply means that they are exploits in the games intended mechanisms.
So, what do you consider an exploit?
Here are some things that I consider exploits:
Multiple speed boosts off the same wall as skulk
Running up near vertical surfaces as marine
Hiding inside the hives model as marine
Locking yourself inside the command station as a skulk
Note: By no stretch of the imagination do I view these as cheats. If I did, I would clearly label them as "cheats", or possibly "hacks". Exploits are not cheats, nor are they hacks. A good example of a widely accepted exploit in a game is bunny hopping in the goldsource engine. While this exploit was widely accepted and used by almost all players, it was still, none the less, an exploit, and should continue to be labeled as such. This does not mean that I view myself as superior to players who use these exploits, nor does it mean that I myself do not make liberal use of them. It simply means that they are exploits in the games intended mechanisms.
Comments
Play the game, use what's available to you, and if it's really that bad either the game will die or be fixed. It's not that complicated.
Surely such a standpoint ignores emergence?
Bunnyhopping was all but encorporated into NS1. Dare I say the game may have been balanced around it in some cases. That is an example of an exploit not strictly requiring a "fix" or for the game to die. In fact one could probably say that a vast percentage of all cases of gameplay emergence are exploits in one form or another. Denying in dota is another example that comes to mind.
Speed boosts of the same wall? Maybe I'm not getting the picture but that seems fine to me? Jump off wall -> speed boost -> well timed second jump that maintains speed back to wall -> Jump off again for more speed? If that what you're describing, sounds fine.
With the exception of the skylights vent on veil, marine mountain climbing is fairly useless beyond amusement. Heck, I think its intentional or at least acceptable on veil since it been known forever and never fixed.
Hiding under the hive I assume? Annoying from the khamm's perspective since its hard to figure out where the hive is being hit from. Once spotted, skulk food.
Getting a skulk inside the CC is pretty bad, but thankfully rare. It requires some degree of either skulk badassery and timing, marine incompetence, or luck. The comm can always get out, though sometimes they don't realize they need to until the CC is rather farked.
OT, back in beta, the CC would kill any aliens it closed on. Just like how it kills marines. No idea why it went away. One of my favorite memories was when we were getting our asses kicked on veil. Nobody was in the CC, everyone was fighting. One onos started after me. I ran to the CC and hit log in then jumped over the front. It was the worlds biggest bear trap.
What really bugs me is scripts and macros. I don't like em, not one bit. I can live with one's that are feasible to do w/o the script/macro. But when I see scripts and macros that obviously do more/faster things than any person could do, they bug the shit outta me.
I feel less like I'm playing against a person and more like a robot with a bunch of "I win" buttons.
I think most of that can be classified as a hack. For example, emptying a pistol clip in under half a second with a click macro is essentially modifying the users input using software. That's about as clear cut a definition of a hack as they come.
I'm not going to use a different language simply because some word definitions in English offend people.
Well the topic did state that you should state whatever you view as an exploit. Why not give your input?
What needs to be asked *before* you ask whether something is an exploit, is whether someone is using a game mechanic in a manner not intended by the developer/mapper.
The developers have fixed this before, so it is reasonable to assume this is indeed not an intended game mechanic.
I assume you're talking about places like Crevice on Summit and Elevator Transfer in Tram? This is a bit of a grey area imho. If it is something that has been around a while, then I would think the mappers are aware of it. In that case, if they are aware of it (and multiple map fixes have been released) then either they don't consider it a big issue, or it is working as intended.
I'm going to disagree here, since if a marine can get under a hive, so can a skulk. This is another example of asking the question, did developers intend this? Well, seeing as they made the collision box, and the mapper made the map, then I think both knew exactly what they were doing. They could have made it higher or lower, but they didn't. Why? Clearly this is not an issue they are concerned with.
This seems to be more silliness than anything. I've never actually seen it first hand, so I'm not sure why it's a big deal. If a comm enters the chair and a skulk comes with him, he can log out. If he is somehow dying *inside* the command chair, and the chair isn't opening back up, then this is a bug, not an exploit. (frankly the comm shouldn't be getting out of the chair in such a case, but that's another matter entirely.)
In the end, I would only consider the skulk speed boost to be an 'exploit' imho.
I think we need to be careful in throwing the 'exploit' word around, since it is a pejorative term.
Look at my posts, then look at yours, and ask yourself who is trying to start what.
You can learn a lot about yourself and others, if you just take the time.
I have seen skulks get entirely inside the CC such that no part was exposed to be shot. The only way to get the skulk out is for the comm to log out so it can be killed. Otherwise your CC gets chewed to death from the inside.
Thankfully, skulks getting even partially in the CC is incredibly rare.
I notice you guys didn't mention Veil/Skylights. I take it that is working as intended then? Sorry to badger the point, I simply don't know and I am curious.
It's similar to the room east of Flow Control on the way to Transit in Refinery. You'll see a pile of crates on the north wall to enable a marine to enter the vent.
It's actually possible for mappers to make vents that are 'marine proof', since a crouching marine is 2 units taller than a skulk. So if they really want to prevent marines from getting into vents, they can do so without blocking skulks from using it.
Being able to climb things like the rocks in crevice for example are the engine physics issues. Skylights may apply here but I'm not certain as I don't even know who is mapping Veil anymore
Then remove the map.
For example, in BF3 you get a thing called a MAV, which is basically meant to be this little flying reconnaissance vehicle that lets you see whats going on in the game. After not to much time had passed, a number of people realized that if you collided with a player hard enough, you could kill them. Eventually I was getting more kills with my MAV than players were getting with their guns.
So, after an extensive open beta period, and months of gameplay after official release, the ability to do this was, for all intents and purposes, removed.
So at what point did it become an exploit?
It was more than obvious that, for quite a long time, the devs expressly did not view it as an exploit, as it remained in the game time and time again. Then all of a sudden it was removed.