Gorge can already heal, I'm fine with splitting between "support" and "damage" and not letting you do both simultaneously.
I'm inclined to agree with this. I feel that the ease with which one can hit a marine with spit, and the damage it causes (even 30) is a bit too high for something that is meant to be a support lifeform (at least in the early game it is). However, its the combination of ease and damage that is the problem. I would like to see the damage reduced even further to something like 10, have the speed of spit increased (travel speed) to make it slightly easier to hit, and have the blind duration reduced to around just under the time it takes a gorge to spit three times. In my mind, if a gorge isn't heal spraying, he should be blinding as many marines as he can, but he shouldn't be doing viable damage in either case. If he wants that he should drop Hydras mid combat.
I've got to agree with this. I think currently the spit damage is too high, but the blinding effect makes perfect sense.
One gorge alone should have way more trouble to kill a marine than now, but should also be able to get away much easier than now, blinding the marine so you can make your get away is a good counter. Likewise it means in combat gorges aren't dealing much damage but can support skulks allowing them to get in good damage.
Also I don't think that it's fair to compare spit to devour. Devour was near enough impossible to avoid and it totally took away control. Spit can be dodged and it only reduces your control, you can still make things out through the effect and carry on shooting. Hell it makes shotguns a great counter to gorge spit, big gorge shaped blobs can be tracked well enough when blinded that you can still run up and unload some buckshot into the fatty.
Funny how when the LMG melee swing was knocking skulks away, 'immersion' wasn't enough to save it from being removed.
Well, when a marine has time to shoot at a skulk coming at him, then knock him away (preventing damage) and further shooting him, it makes sense that it would seem imbalanced and thus removed.
I'm normally vehemently against screen altering and cluttering effects in games, especially FPS'. There can be exceptions though; one being the gorge spit.
There isn't some new strategy where gorges are use heavily to win engagements. Their use has been pretty consistent. If you can setup an effective attack and land some spits in the middle of combat, it will surely help. The same goes for lerk gas; it's very dangerous for them to gas marines by themselves, but if they have skulks distracting, it can do some good damage.
Their spit ROF and damage was even reduced last patch. Personally, I did find the spit annoying at first. After having your screen splattered for a couple seconds, it really makes you think if it's worth chasing that gorge down, and I think that's a good thing (especially when I'm the gorge!). Because let's be serious here, we all know how easy it is to kill a gorge (<1 lmg clip). If a gorge really wants to be effective, they'll need to abandon their hydra/clog fortress, and that leaves them very vulnerable. So it is practically necessary to have a deterrent like that so marines don't automatically charge a gorge for a free kill.
Lastly, the argument that marines are slow is directly applied to a gorge as well. They're not exactly hard to hit in combat.
Oh no, spit blinds you (kind of, not really), better remove silence from the game too.
There is no place for crowd control effects in a competitive FPS game.
NS2 is not a competitive FPS game only...... as with most games, the largest playerbase is the casual players. It is the reason why over the years games have removed features and systems that have catered toward the casuals.
You're right, NS2 isn't a competitive only game, but the game itself is about competition, be it casual or amateur/professional.
In regards to the OP, this is a similar topic I resurrected a while back about stomp; No one likes to feel that they have no control of their fate. Sure you can still shoot while blind, but I don't expect Ray Charles to be a master marksman anytime soon.
Blind could be mightily effective if it just had a slowing effect. It still offers the gorge defensive or offensive capability while not causing the marine to effectively be a free kill. It'll work well for escaping or controlling marines for hydras and/or skulk friends. I ain't talking NS1 web slow here, but slow enough that it sucks. What's so wrong with that?
Some of you keep asking us to defend our argument on why blind should be removed, in which most of us have the main argument that has perpetuated throughout a good portion of games. (No loss of control)
For you immersion fans, How many thousands/millions of dollars are spent on immersion in big titles that no one even cares about or turns off?
I think that if they're persistent on having some form of a blind, having a small blind that goes around the marines screen (to limit peripheral as he attacks the gorge) might not be an awful thing.
hahaha. Ironic coming from someone crying about gorge spit. Sounds like someones just angry.
FYI, using the word "pub" like it's a slur doesn't make you look better. Is that a lesson you teach in your education on NS program?
All of the late greats of NS1 are laughing at you. Adapt or die.
I'm not actually crying. It's just pointing out a silly mechanic that doesn't belong in the game. As you can see I put a humorous picture. It was aimed to be a somewhat "fun" discussion on gorge spit and why it's silly to blind people.
Everyone I know that was actually good at NS1 isn't laughing. They're in agreement. Idk what world you live in.
It's not a slur. It's just fact. What you experience in a pub isn't high level play typically. You started the "you're bad!" tone when you said you have an easy time tracking while blind with 50% of your screen green and that means everyone else should be able to as well. I personally don't have a problem at all against public players while being blinded but it gets pretty frustrating against skulks with great movement.
I'm not going to follow your poor logic train and let you drag this down to no you said this first nonsense, the fact of the matter is THERE ARE VERY VERY FEW ACTUALLY DECENT PLAYERS IN THIS GAME. I won't speculate why this is, but your tone was that of one of superiority, and using an image macro does not make your supposition correct. If you ionwant discourse on a topic like, whether vision obscuring is okay, next time try not to be so arrogant. I'm not sure where your ego came from, but not only is it detracting from a potentially good thread, it's unfounded. That said...
Vision obscuring is fine by me, as long as it is relevant, and balanced into the obscuring sources abilities. Gorge spit was broken as hell, and I was one of those who agreed it needed EITHER A DAMAGE TONE or REMOVE BLINDING, the devs decided with damage reduction.
The only thing you and I agree on, is that UI clutter is obnoxious as hell, but as minstrel said in a thread (Either this one or a different I can't remember)
Ol' Charlie's got a blindfold fetish. Back in NS1 the command to removing the viewmodel for weapons was disabled and locked, and that game had way worse vision obscuring than NS2.
Either way, it isn't going anywhere, and as I am sure you are aware, back when I did vet playtesting in NS1, he will listen to ideas, but if it isn't in line with what HE WANTS, it ain't happening. I'd get used to that idea now before trying to change anything else.
Its amusing how little you people realize about balance in this game... Marines are winning 40% of the games atm, gorge and gorge spit especially now that you can hit it reliably is a balance issue. I have no possible clue how you can think that NS1 had more vision blocking mechanics, unless your one of those people that couldnt aim with the LMG muzzle flash. I don't think Minstrel has posted on here in a while, I think he actually gave up trolling shortly after the release, but I'm pretty sure him and others would agree that gorge spit blinding is a bad mechanic, and needs to go along with a host of others (rupture is like #1). I could go ask him and countless other NS1 vets what they think, would that make this post more valid? No, its best to take feedback from the players actually playing the game currently.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
Seriously people? There are complaints in this topic about not being able to kill skulks when your vision is obscured by spit.
REALLY?
If 2 aliens attack a lone marine, you should die. Its that simple. If you managed to track and dodge both the gorge and the skulk, well done. Points to you.
If you are not alone as a marine.. what the heck are your teammates doing then? That gorge cant keep everyone vision blocked, especially if you are not standing still.
And if the gorge is alone.. cover the distance by use of your map, and put your clips into the big bugger.
Its amusing how little you people realize about balance in this game... Marines are winning 40% of the games atm, gorge and gorge spit especially now that you can hit it reliably is a balance issue. I have no possible clue how you can think that NS1 had more vision blocking mechanics, unless your one of those people that couldnt aim with the LMG muzzle flash. I don't think Minstrel has posted on here in a while, I think he actually gave up trolling shortly after the release, but I'm pretty sure him and others would agree that gorge spit blinding is a bad mechanic, and needs to go along with a host of others (rupture is like #1). I could go ask him and countless other NS1 vets what they think, would that make this post more valid? No, its best to take feedback from the players actually playing the game currently.
Maybe. It doesn't make them right. High level play used to be about being the best that you can with what you are given and persevering, not whining about things not being fair. Marines are weak, I get it, but it doesn't mean gorges need further neutering. Keep in mind that I was railing HARD for a nerf to spit.
Funny how when the LMG melee swing was knocking skulks away, 'immersion' wasn't enough to save it from being removed.
Well, when a marine has time to shoot at a skulk coming at him, then knock him away (preventing damage) and further shooting him, it makes sense that it would seem imbalanced and thus removed.
Really?
So it's not OK for a marine to prevent a skulk from damaging him while he deals out damage, but it is OK for a gorge to blind a marine (preventing damage) while dealing damage and everything is hunky dorey?
You realize how hypocritical you sound, right?
There is no difference between the two. The LMG knockback did the same thing *AND* it paid for that advantage by requiring the marine to stop shooting bullets while doing it. It's not like the blind effect on the gorge was on a different weapon that the gorge had to switch to in order to use. It's actually part of the same weapon.
To continue with our comparison, it would be like the LMG being able to knockback the skulk *WHILE* still shooting bullets.
The LMG knockback was indeed balanced since it required the marine to be in melee range of the skulk, which is death territory. The knockback also had pros/cons. (the con being you lose the ability to shoot bullets during this time.)
Gorge spit has none of this. It gets a free blind effect with every hit. Or in comparison it would be like putting knockback on EVERY bullet the marine fired that landed on the target.
Funny how when the LMG melee swing was knocking skulks away, 'immersion' wasn't enough to save it from being removed.
Well, when a marine has time to shoot at a skulk coming at him, then knock him away (preventing damage) and further shooting him, it makes sense that it would seem imbalanced and thus removed.
Really?
So it's not OK for a marine to prevent a skulk from damaging him while he deals out damage, but it is OK for a gorge to blind a marine (preventing damage) while dealing damage and everything is hunky dorey?
Are you admitting to all the upstanding people in this thread that you struggle to 1v1 a gorge as marine?
If you are, then that is a very brave and humble thing to do, and I respect that.
Spit doesn't prevent damage, it obscures vision. It will affect aim probably based on how far away you are. If you're blinded up close, realistically, you'll still know where to aim. The spit is also fairly slow, making it more difficult to aim than a hitscan weapon.
Again, it takes less than a clip to kill a gorge. They move like mobile potatoes in combat, hitting your shots is easy on them. If the spit effect was removed, people would just charge gorges because who is really afraid of the spit damage output? If they're in a tough situation their only option would be to try and belly slide out. At least with the current spit they're able to defend themselves.
I'd just like to say, you must operate within the constraints of the game to a certain extent. The blinding effects do take away control to a certain extent, but it is an intended loss of control. I don't see how this is any different than say, group stuns in DOTA, or explosive bouncing in TF2. To a certain extent I don't see how this is any less egregious a design feature than a one-shot. Dying would be the ultimate loss of control after all, hell, SC2 has neural parasite, fungal spore, forcefields. Think of it as a debuff.
My point is, yes, it blocks your vision and makes you susceptible to other life forms, but isn't that the goal in a team-oriented fps? TF2 kritzkrieg and jarate for example. or a nicely positioned crossfire. That the OP thinks that it should be aim vs agility simply means that he has a different conception of what the game design is about than the developers. It's a valid argument, but I would suggest that it is better addressed in the context of tournament play, where balance is more of an issue, and don't misunderstand me, this is a balance issue. If all the competitive players believe that blinding effects are OP, then they should certainly petition UWE for a tournament exclusive option to remove, or have someone mod it out. I am certain that many competitive scenes use their own rulesets when they find unbalanced weapons/characters/maps in the vanilla game.
I like blind, it makes marines easier to kill, though it's not a sure thing, and I am happiest when i can blind a marine and make it easier for a skulk to kill him. Promoting team-play in a public context should not be discouraged. spores+umbra will not kill marines by themselves largely, so again, it promotes teamplay if I know that it messes with marine aim on my teammates.
sorry for the disjointed post, it is late.
I'm pretty sure all crowd control in DOTA lasts a few seconds a most, is subject to cooldowns, and isn't spammable like everything in NS2 is. When was the last time Marines had an ability that blinded Aliens? Kritzkreig and Jarate have chargeup/cooldown times as well, come at the expense of other loadouts, and at least let you see wtf is going on, which allows you to shoot back and dodge. I think a big part of the frustration here is that there is no bad time for spit/spore/etc. Because you can spam it and it's effective in every possible situation, there's zero tradeoffs involved. In DOTA or some other game, if I just use my stun at the first chance, I might not have it when I really need it to interrupt an enemy spell or peel for a carry. In NS2 there's practically never a time when I have to stop and ask myself "Should I spit him now, or do I need to conserve my spit?" Flinging poop at the Marines is always the right answer. Just about the only similar decision a Gorge has to made is whether to spit or bile bomb (Both of which obscure Marine vision anyways)
I love the current gorge spit & I agree that there is nothing wrong with knockback on a rifle bash
The roflbutt?
The old rifle butt was the most hilarious incarnation of rifle balance of all time. You could just decide to not aim at all and wait for the skulk to be off the ground mid air, hit & knockback, stun and then 9 round the stationary skulk.
Yes, nothing wrong with it. Even if it was implemented without a stun it would be silly.
lots of venom-spitting creatures aim for the eyes.
Very true, but as I joked already it doesn't matter where the marine get hit, it still obscures the vision of the marine.
We could always research something like this
Seriously though, I don't really care too much about obscuring vision mechanics as long as they don't drop my fps too much. Topping out in the mid 30s is bad enough, but when you can't see AND the performance goes south, then it's annoying.
I love the current gorge spit & I agree that there is nothing wrong with knockback on a rifle bash
The roflbutt?
The old rifle butt was the most hilarious incarnation of rifle balance of all time. You could just decide to not aim at all and wait for the skulk to be off the ground mid air, hit & knockback, stun and then 9 round the stationary skulk.
Yes, nothing wrong with it. Even if it was implemented without a stun it would be silly.
Are you admitting to all the upstanding people in this thread that you struggle to 1v1 a gorge as marine?
This isn't about me, it's about the game mechanic. I've held this opinion for quite some time, since I am not a fan of effects that cause a person to lose control of their avatar. Battles should be determined by player skill and not by which person's crowd control effect is the most powerful.
Are you admitting to all the upstanding people in this thread that you struggle to 1v1 a gorge as marine?
This isn't about me, it's about the game mechanic. I've held this opinion for quite some time, since I am not a fan of effects that cause a person to lose control of their avatar. Battles should be determined by player skill and not by which person's crowd control effect is the most powerful.
xtcmenJoin Date: 2004-04-20Member: 28040Members, Squad Five Blue
I have to agree with Lock here. While the issue at hand is pretty annoying in competitive games, it is magnitudes worse on large public games. There are simply way too many ways for an alien to obscure a marine's vision. I was playing as a dual exo the other day, and I couldn't even leave deposits without being blinded by a gorge just tossing bile bombs. It rendered my dual exo totally useless.
Bile bomb/spit blindness needs to be toned down at the very least. It is incredibly frustrating and a little ironic considering UWE wanted to make ns2's UI as clean as possible.
I'm fairly certain that umbra and gas effects are meant to alert players to the location of the effect so that they can act accordingly, either getting into or out of it depending on the team. If it is blocking people's view that is more of a secondary benefit to the alien team, not necessarily the reason why the effect was added. Alien vision is not only for seeing through the fog, to highlight the enemy.
The question is not whether or not the dynamics should be changed to to balance issues, it is whether blocking the marine view during intense firefights is the best way to encourage fun gameplay. On that alone I think the debate has merit. Not only with competitive players but for the newbies / pugs who may have a better understanding of what's going on around them and enjoy fighting back when they aren't blindly pumping bullets down an obscured corridor. Of course the same could be said for the other side of the argument, where aliens enjoy using their abilities to obscure the marine view, ensure a safe escape, and secure the win. All I'm saying is don't turn this into a 'hate on the view obstruction hater' circle jerk.
I have to agree with Lock here. While the issue at hand is pretty annoying in competitive games, it is magnitudes worse on large public games. There are simply way too many ways for an alien to obscure a marine's vision. I was playing as a dual exo the other day, and I couldn't even leave deposits without being blinded by a gorge just tossing bile bombs. It rendered my dual exo totally useless.
Bile bomb/spit blindness needs to be toned down at the very least. It is incredibly frustrating and a little ironic considering UWE wanted to make ns2's UI as clean as possible.
well, yeah, that's where those handy dandy teammates you have go and shoot the gorge in the face.
I'm pretty sure all crowd control in DOTA lasts a few seconds a most, is subject to cooldowns, and isn't spammable like everything in NS2 is. When was the last time Marines had an ability that blinded Aliens? Kritzkreig and Jarate have chargeup/cooldown times as well, come at the expense of other loadouts, and at least let you see wtf is going on, which allows you to shoot back and dodge. I think a big part of the frustration here is that there is no bad time for spit/spore/etc. Because you can spam it and it's effective in every possible situation, there's zero tradeoffs involved. In DOTA or some other game, if I just use my stun at the first chance, I might not have it when I really need it to interrupt an enemy spell or peel for a carry. In NS2 there's practically never a time when I have to stop and ask myself "Should I spit him now, or do I need to conserve my spit?" Flinging poop at the Marines is always the right answer. Just about the only similar decision a Gorge has to made is whether to spit or bile bomb (Both of which obscure Marine vision anyways)
the DOTA thing was about taking away control and i meant the kritzkreig and jarate examples as means by which the enemy are debuffed, linking to 'being dead' being the ultimate form of loss of control. this was a response to the idea that good competitive games never take control away from the player. not a perfect analogy.
about the spammability argument, i think it's moot. you are never going to effectively blind and kill more than one or two marines at a time, even with a skulk for support. lets agree that one gorge and one skulk should kill one marine.
what happens when one gorge and one skulk engage 2 marines? i think it's pretty up in the air who comes out on top...
2 skulks and a gorge vs 3 marines- means a dead gorge for certain, the only question is whether or not the marines or skulks limp out of there.
in big engagements i feel heal spam might be more effective than spit.
also, if there was no blind... you'd still never ask yourself if you should spit or not...
If gorge spit truly blinded players, ala flashbang, it would be unbalanced and unnecessary. As it stands, you can still partially see, which is enough for me to kill the gorge 9 times out of 10 or his skulk buddy. It is true that the visual clutter from alien abilities can stack to ridiculous levels at times; perhaps the opaqueness for umbra, spores, and spit should be lowered 10% at most. I think it is fine as it stands now.
Comments
I've got to agree with this. I think currently the spit damage is too high, but the blinding effect makes perfect sense.
One gorge alone should have way more trouble to kill a marine than now, but should also be able to get away much easier than now, blinding the marine so you can make your get away is a good counter. Likewise it means in combat gorges aren't dealing much damage but can support skulks allowing them to get in good damage.
Also I don't think that it's fair to compare spit to devour. Devour was near enough impossible to avoid and it totally took away control. Spit can be dodged and it only reduces your control, you can still make things out through the effect and carry on shooting. Hell it makes shotguns a great counter to gorge spit, big gorge shaped blobs can be tracked well enough when blinded that you can still run up and unload some buckshot into the fatty.
Well, when a marine has time to shoot at a skulk coming at him, then knock him away (preventing damage) and further shooting him, it makes sense that it would seem imbalanced and thus removed.
I'm normally vehemently against screen altering and cluttering effects in games, especially FPS'. There can be exceptions though; one being the gorge spit.
There isn't some new strategy where gorges are use heavily to win engagements. Their use has been pretty consistent. If you can setup an effective attack and land some spits in the middle of combat, it will surely help. The same goes for lerk gas; it's very dangerous for them to gas marines by themselves, but if they have skulks distracting, it can do some good damage.
Their spit ROF and damage was even reduced last patch. Personally, I did find the spit annoying at first. After having your screen splattered for a couple seconds, it really makes you think if it's worth chasing that gorge down, and I think that's a good thing (especially when I'm the gorge!). Because let's be serious here, we all know how easy it is to kill a gorge (<1 lmg clip). If a gorge really wants to be effective, they'll need to abandon their hydra/clog fortress, and that leaves them very vulnerable. So it is practically necessary to have a deterrent like that so marines don't automatically charge a gorge for a free kill.
Lastly, the argument that marines are slow is directly applied to a gorge as well. They're not exactly hard to hit in combat.
You're right, NS2 isn't a competitive only game, but the game itself is about competition, be it casual or amateur/professional.
In regards to the OP, this is a similar topic I resurrected a while back about stomp; No one likes to feel that they have no control of their fate. Sure you can still shoot while blind, but I don't expect Ray Charles to be a master marksman anytime soon.
Blind could be mightily effective if it just had a slowing effect. It still offers the gorge defensive or offensive capability while not causing the marine to effectively be a free kill. It'll work well for escaping or controlling marines for hydras and/or skulk friends. I ain't talking NS1 web slow here, but slow enough that it sucks. What's so wrong with that?
Some of you keep asking us to defend our argument on why blind should be removed, in which most of us have the main argument that has perpetuated throughout a good portion of games. (No loss of control)
For you immersion fans, How many thousands/millions of dollars are spent on immersion in big titles that no one even cares about or turns off?
Well being dead might be more of a handicap for Ray than being blind.
I'm not going to follow your poor logic train and let you drag this down to no you said this first nonsense, the fact of the matter is THERE ARE VERY VERY FEW ACTUALLY DECENT PLAYERS IN THIS GAME. I won't speculate why this is, but your tone was that of one of superiority, and using an image macro does not make your supposition correct. If you ionwant discourse on a topic like, whether vision obscuring is okay, next time try not to be so arrogant. I'm not sure where your ego came from, but not only is it detracting from a potentially good thread, it's unfounded. That said...
Vision obscuring is fine by me, as long as it is relevant, and balanced into the obscuring sources abilities. Gorge spit was broken as hell, and I was one of those who agreed it needed EITHER A DAMAGE TONE or REMOVE BLINDING, the devs decided with damage reduction.
The only thing you and I agree on, is that UI clutter is obnoxious as hell, but as minstrel said in a thread (Either this one or a different I can't remember)
Ol' Charlie's got a blindfold fetish. Back in NS1 the command to removing the viewmodel for weapons was disabled and locked, and that game had way worse vision obscuring than NS2.
Either way, it isn't going anywhere, and as I am sure you are aware, back when I did vet playtesting in NS1, he will listen to ideas, but if it isn't in line with what HE WANTS, it ain't happening. I'd get used to that idea now before trying to change anything else.
CWAG; even you have to admit my quoted text is hilarious given, you're the person posting it.
REALLY?
If 2 aliens attack a lone marine, you should die. Its that simple. If you managed to track and dodge both the gorge and the skulk, well done. Points to you.
If you are not alone as a marine.. what the heck are your teammates doing then? That gorge cant keep everyone vision blocked, especially if you are not standing still.
And if the gorge is alone.. cover the distance by use of your map, and put your clips into the big bugger.
/still do not see the problem.
+awesomed
I have no illusions about what I am.
Maybe. It doesn't make them right. High level play used to be about being the best that you can with what you are given and persevering, not whining about things not being fair. Marines are weak, I get it, but it doesn't mean gorges need further neutering. Keep in mind that I was railing HARD for a nerf to spit.
yep.
So it's not OK for a marine to prevent a skulk from damaging him while he deals out damage, but it is OK for a gorge to blind a marine (preventing damage) while dealing damage and everything is hunky dorey?
You realize how hypocritical you sound, right?
There is no difference between the two. The LMG knockback did the same thing *AND* it paid for that advantage by requiring the marine to stop shooting bullets while doing it. It's not like the blind effect on the gorge was on a different weapon that the gorge had to switch to in order to use. It's actually part of the same weapon.
To continue with our comparison, it would be like the LMG being able to knockback the skulk *WHILE* still shooting bullets.
The LMG knockback was indeed balanced since it required the marine to be in melee range of the skulk, which is death territory. The knockback also had pros/cons. (the con being you lose the ability to shoot bullets during this time.)
Gorge spit has none of this. It gets a free blind effect with every hit. Or in comparison it would be like putting knockback on EVERY bullet the marine fired that landed on the target.
Still think it is balanced?
Are you admitting to all the upstanding people in this thread that you struggle to 1v1 a gorge as marine?
If you are, then that is a very brave and humble thing to do, and I respect that.
Again, it takes less than a clip to kill a gorge. They move like mobile potatoes in combat, hitting your shots is easy on them. If the spit effect was removed, people would just charge gorges because who is really afraid of the spit damage output? If they're in a tough situation their only option would be to try and belly slide out. At least with the current spit they're able to defend themselves.
The roflbutt?
The old rifle butt was the most hilarious incarnation of rifle balance of all time. You could just decide to not aim at all and wait for the skulk to be off the ground mid air, hit & knockback, stun and then 9 round the stationary skulk.
Yes, nothing wrong with it. Even if it was implemented without a stun it would be silly.
Very true, but as I joked already it doesn't matter where the marine get hit, it still obscures the vision of the marine.
We could always research something like this
Seriously though, I don't really care too much about obscuring vision mechanics as long as they don't drop my fps too much. Topping out in the mid 30s is bad enough, but when you can't see AND the performance goes south, then it's annoying.
I did say knockback.
Stun is very very silly
You can't hit what you can't see. I don't consider the ability to fire blindly to be 'dealing damage'.
Yet you can deal damage quite well.
rush up to the gorge by map and kill him. Its really not that hard
Bile bomb/spit blindness needs to be toned down at the very least. It is incredibly frustrating and a little ironic considering UWE wanted to make ns2's UI as clean as possible.
you're screen isn't 100% obscured. Your bullets still do damage. you're being a bit dramatic.
However i agree it should be toned down but not removed. Make headshots blinding and/or make it more transparent but its effects stacking in nature
I'm fairly certain that umbra and gas effects are meant to alert players to the location of the effect so that they can act accordingly, either getting into or out of it depending on the team. If it is blocking people's view that is more of a secondary benefit to the alien team, not necessarily the reason why the effect was added. Alien vision is not only for seeing through the fog, to highlight the enemy.
The question is not whether or not the dynamics should be changed to to balance issues, it is whether blocking the marine view during intense firefights is the best way to encourage fun gameplay. On that alone I think the debate has merit. Not only with competitive players but for the newbies / pugs who may have a better understanding of what's going on around them and enjoy fighting back when they aren't blindly pumping bullets down an obscured corridor. Of course the same could be said for the other side of the argument, where aliens enjoy using their abilities to obscure the marine view, ensure a safe escape, and secure the win. All I'm saying is don't turn this into a 'hate on the view obstruction hater' circle jerk.
well, yeah, that's where those handy dandy teammates you have go and shoot the gorge in the face.
the DOTA thing was about taking away control and i meant the kritzkreig and jarate examples as means by which the enemy are debuffed, linking to 'being dead' being the ultimate form of loss of control. this was a response to the idea that good competitive games never take control away from the player. not a perfect analogy.
about the spammability argument, i think it's moot. you are never going to effectively blind and kill more than one or two marines at a time, even with a skulk for support. lets agree that one gorge and one skulk should kill one marine.
what happens when one gorge and one skulk engage 2 marines? i think it's pretty up in the air who comes out on top...
2 skulks and a gorge vs 3 marines- means a dead gorge for certain, the only question is whether or not the marines or skulks limp out of there.
in big engagements i feel heal spam might be more effective than spit.
also, if there was no blind... you'd still never ask yourself if you should spit or not...