We leave the power node socket as is, but aliens now need to build alien versions of power nodes. They have to hook in some kind of organic element that fits into the socket and siphons power. Just as is when marines socket the node, without the node socketed, no harvester resources would be collected, no chambers would be active and no cysts would be active. (hydras excluded) In hive rooms, taking out the power disables all alien upgrade chambers and prevents anyone from spawning in an egg. On the 'pro' side, there would be no marine ninja phase gates in rooms where aliens have socketed the power nodes since marines would need to kill an alien power node to build their own.
Sound fair? Surely if it is *SO EASY* to defend against power node attacks, there should be no reason why the aliens would be impacted by this... Amirite?!? Fair is fair, let's spread the power node love around.
Personally I think killing obs instead of the power node is underrated.
Kill the obs, then the pg and power.
I mean... killing the power node is obviously much more effective but its not as exciting.
We leave the power node socket as is, but aliens now need to build alien versions of power nodes. They have to hook in some kind of organic element that fits into the socket and siphons power. Just as is when marines socket the node, without the node socketed, no harvester resources would be collected, no chambers would be active and no cysts would be active. (hydras excluded) In hive rooms, taking out the power disables all alien upgrade chambers and prevents anyone from spawning in an egg. On the 'pro' side, there would be no marine ninja phase gates in rooms where aliens have socketed the power nodes since marines would need to kill an alien power node to build their own.
Sound fair? Surely if it is *SO EASY* to defend against power node attacks, there should be no reason why the aliens would be impacted by this... Amirite?!? Fair is fair, let's spread the power node love around.
I'm in if marines also need to lay carpet everywhere where they want to build.
We leave the power node socket as is, but aliens now need to build alien versions of power nodes. They have to hook in some kind of organic element that fits into the socket and siphons power. Just as is when marines socket the node, without the node socketed, no harvester resources would be collected, no chambers would be active and no cysts would be active. (hydras excluded) In hive rooms, taking out the power disables all alien upgrade chambers and prevents anyone from spawning in an egg. On the 'pro' side, there would be no marine ninja phase gates in rooms where aliens have socketed the power nodes since marines would need to kill an alien power node to build their own.
Sound fair? Surely if it is *SO EASY* to defend against power node attacks, there should be no reason why the aliens would be impacted by this... Amirite?!? Fair is fair, let's spread the power node love around.
Uhh... While it's weak to use this argument... asymmetrical? Also, a marine can build something in front of the node; com can beacon to the node and even nano if he's being really fancy.
I take it aliens could only drop this if infection is touching, which means another cyst to place (boring).
But wait, Aliens already have power nodes, their upgrades! Die in a few clips, vital to gameplay and have to buy and grow (and buy) before getting them back.
Marines have power nodes. Aliens have cysts. They are different but perform similar functions. I'm generally OK with this but I wish that killing cysts would disable Alien structures. I don't see why they should be able to function without it.
Uhh... While it's weak to use this argument... asymmetrical? Also, a marine can build something in front of the node; com can beacon to the node and even nano if he's being really fancy.
Building in front of/on top of the node does nothing vs Bile Bomb.
Splash damage gonna splash.
We leave the power node socket as is, but aliens now need to build alien versions of power nodes. They have to hook in some kind of organic element that fits into the socket and siphons power. Just as is when marines socket the node, without the node socketed, no harvester resources would be collected, no chambers would be active and no cysts would be active. (hydras excluded) In hive rooms, taking out the power disables all alien upgrade chambers and prevents anyone from spawning in an egg. On the 'pro' side, there would be no marine ninja phase gates in rooms where aliens have socketed the power nodes since marines would need to kill an alien power node to build their own.
Sound fair? Surely if it is *SO EASY* to defend against power node attacks, there should be no reason why the aliens would be impacted by this... Amirite?!? Fair is fair, let's spread the power node love around.
Ok then. How about this? Aliens get phase gate and beacon too.
@Frothybeverage, this is the point the com should step in (preferably with a shotgun) after using nanoshield on the node (if he is in the room). Or have a guy on PG duties. Other than that, I'm not sure.
Honestly, I don't get many bile rushes to my base as marines (maybe that’s why I take this stance :-|)
Aliens get phase in Gorgeous.
They're called Gorge Tunnels.
Gorge Tunnels aren't phase gates. My point is that marines can almost instantaneously teleport to a location under attack. Gorge Tunnels provide no such function (as far as I know)
Faster does not = instantaneous. From what I understand you still have to travel through the tunnel, making it more like a 'shortcut' than a teleportation mechanism. I doubt, for example, a gorge tunnel will be much help in assisting aliens in Pipeline defend against a sneak attack in Subsector. They still have to travel all that distance, and whilst Gorge Tunnels will certainly reduce the time taken if they're placed well, it certainly won't make it instantaneous like running through a phase gate or getting beaconed does. Phase gates (and beacon) are different in that regard as it allows marines to go from being on one side of the map to the other within seconds.
The whole point of mentioning beacon and phase gates was because marines can respond to a sneak attack quicker, which balances out the fact their base can go down quicker to a sneak attack (hp of power node and marine structures is a lot less than of hive). Marines can respond literally in seconds. Aliens can't - with or without gorge tunnels.
Yep distance is the same. From my understanding however, I swore that exo's could go around in gorge tunnels...
Does that mean you can't make eggs in a tunnel?
Faster does not = instantaneous. From what I understand you still have to travel through the tunnel, making it more like a 'shortcut' than a teleportation mechanism. I doubt, for example, a gorge tunnel will be much help in assisting aliens in Pipeline defend against a sneak attack in Subsector. They still have to travel all that distance, and whilst Gorge Tunnels will certainly reduce the time taken if they're placed well, it certainly won't make it instantaneous like running through a phase gate or getting beaconed does. Phase gates (and beacon) are different in that regard as it allows marines to go from being on one side of the map to the other within seconds.
The whole point of mentioning beacon and phase gates was because marines can respond to a sneak attack quicker, which balances out the fact their base can go down quicker to a sneak attack (hp of power node and marine structures is a lot less than of hive). Marines can respond literally in seconds. Aliens can't - with or without gorge tunnels.
Everything about gorge tunnels is speculation until we actually see what the content patch provides.
I will note, however, that your expectation is still unfair with and (I feel) without the powernode bug in play. The issue isn't if marines can stop this sniping, the issue is should it be this way?
Why don't we increase bile's effectiveness by 150%? With 100% map awareness all the time that's 7 seconds to nano the powernode (3 extra seconds because the comm saw the dots on the map the moment the observatory picked the attack up). 4 additional seconds right there with nano. Any marine team worth their salt can either defend their base in that time or they deserve to lose. That's fair right?
The fact marines "can" stop these attacks doesn't mean it should stay this way. I remember in SC2 that reapers were extremely powerful and could cripple a zerg player's economy if played right. Could the zerg win? Yes, duh. All you have to do is kill the reapers using XYZ. However, it wasn't FUN for zerg in any way, it wasn't interesting to watch and it was too easy for Terrans to do it so Blizzard nerfed it.
Now I'm not saying UWE should cripple bilebomb but something needs to be looked at such that I don't feel dirty when I go in the marines base and win with this strategy. Power Node bug fix being the first obvious step and then going from there.
I've always been saying that power nodes shouldn't completely cripple your base.
Even as an alien player i'm tired of hearing "rush the we win button!"
I wouldn't say as to remove them completely, their destruction will should inflict a large debuff in the base but killing them shouldn't horribly maim it.
The way I see it:
Functions regardless of power:
CC, sentries
"Partial" functionality w/o power:
Adv./Armory-still dispenses HP & armor, but no weapon purchases
Obs-No beacon, Inconsistent detection, but is off more than it is on
Arms lab: 'Power save mode' where the comm can choose two slots to remain active when the power is down: Either A1W1, W2, or A2.
From what we know, they similar to in that they speed up travel times.
Just not to the same degree.
Instant is instant, gorge tunnels are not.
Plus they only connect two locations with each other instead of multiple, allow the enemy to pass through as well, are only buildable by a single dedicated unit on Pres cost and can instantly kill someone who is using it at the right time.
The comparison is about as valid as "marines can use crouch to become silent - so they are the same as Skulks".
So I ran across this today... I single it out because it's a prime example of what I consider to be one of the most broken aspects of the game.
There has been much whining and Aliens OP-ing and L2P-ing and L2aim-ing and L2scout-ing and L2-end-the-game-before-2nd-hive-ing and gnashing of teeth and Gorge hate. But just watch:
That looks to me like that's 1 Onos and 2 Gorges taking down power in ~8s, totally turning around a game in which the Aliens were about to lose.
Questions for today's studio audience:
1) What would the marines need in resources and players to achieve a shock effect similar to this, eg: game turnaround in 8 seconds? This was a 3 player attack at a cost of 95pres (and bile).
2) What would the marines need in resources and player count to defend against this.
3) In light of the above, do you think that this dynamic is balanced, or has a positive, negative or neutral affect on game balance.
While I'm whining, new free content is really awesome and appreciated, but I gotta laugh at a Gorge expansion patch right now. Priorities people.
2 to 2 on Tech Points. Marines split their group to attack Sub and Pipe simultaneously (end it with Exo's, plus JP support). Aliens hit Nano (to probably stop a wave of Exo's/JP+SGs/ARC's), then quickly swung around to hit Control as a counter (possibly base trade while weakening the Marines). Marines focused too much on taking out Overlook and making it to Pipe, they didn't worry about their Main base (Commander included). The player in the video took advantage and played field commander (constant communication with his teammates, guiding them). Marines advanced too far, on multiple fronts and paid for it. The paid for it with the lost of Nano and the lost of Control.
Even with those losses, the Marines had a chance to drop two hives in 20 seconds (ending the game). If you listen, you hear how the Marines at Pipe hesitated, instead of attacking. A few changes in Marines play, this video wouldn't have been used in this tutorial. If you reverse the roles, positions, tactics, the Aliens could easily lose a Hive to an Exo, JP+SG, JP+FT, in about 10 seconds. The difference is, the Aliens actually loses the Hive, rather than have a potential temporary loss of upgrades.
The Aliens in the video don't seem to be thinking it's going to be easy. It looks like they know they are taking a risk, being very careful to avoid early detection. If the Control rush failed (which I've seen fail many times), they lose an Onos, the momentum gained from taking Nano, and practically all pressure on the Marines. The Exo's in Cargo and Overlook could carelessly walk in to Sub and drop the Aliens to one Hive (sorta like they did anyway). Even though the risk was worth it, the Aliens almost lost it all, to an even riskier Marine team.
Also, look at how the rest of the Alien team defended to slow down the Marines advance. It wasn't just the base attack on Control that helped the Aliens come out ahead, it was also how they survived a fairly strong (very risky) split assault.
Answering the OPs questions:
1.) 3 JP Marines (2 SG, 1 FT, all carrying Welders) - If it's the same scenario, the skulk/gorge Khammander hops out, gets one-shot, while the rest of the Aliens are too far away to save the Hive. By the time the Aliens get back, the 3 Marines have a PG & Armory up. This kinda thing happens when Aliens have Cave Hive and push Operations/Deposit. I've solo Knifed, shotguns, LMG'd Cave Hive (Full Health and Mature) down a few times. Bad Aliens?
2.) W2+A2 or W3+A1(maybe no armor upgrades), 3 Marines who can hit the side of a Barn, plus a Nano-Shield on the Power Node. You can either focus down the Gorges (2 on 1 Gorge at a time) then focus the Onos, or focus on the Onos until he turns or dies then focus the Gorges. If you go Gorges first, the Nano can keep the Power Node up long enough to finish the Onos. If you go Onos first, you kill the Onos, possibly lose the shielded Power Node, kill the energy drained Gorges and repair the Power Node (the 10 second wait should be up by then).
3.) The video looks like both sides took a risk; the Marines took a bigger risk. If going by the video alone, it's fine. I didn't see a single Marine come through the Control PG, or a Marine spawn there. I assume the Marines were very focused on killing two Alien Hives simultaneously.
Onos is key to that because onos does 200 dmg to HP or shield, I don't think any other alien life form knocks out the shields on structures as fast as an onos will, onos can wipe out the power node shield in about 5-6 hits and that's when gorge bile goes into "are you fucking kidding me" mode on pure HP AOE DoT, I don't even think you need to use a full energy bar to kill no shield structures like obs.
The power node according to the manual gives out one warning, at 40% HP it or lower it will flash the message across the screen, that's why people say to focus power first, if no one is looking at the map and even if they were thanks to obs passive scan being completely useless it could be 1-2 cysts into the base for all the comm/person on the other side of the map knows.
Even if nano shield completely blocked bile they'd just turn onto the obs/pg/armoury/chair, probably hitting 2-4 buildings at once taking down 20-50+ tres for 2 10 pres life forms with a 20 tres upgrade.
You're welcome to think that gorge tunnels are alien phase gates, but you'd be wrong.
Play semantic games all you want, but the end result and concept are the same. Aliens are getting a tool that allows them to cross the map between any two points - a tool that shares significant similarities with phase gates. Frankly I'd argue that gorge tunnels are superior since aliens are easily able to park a skulk in front of a phase gate exit and send anyone who comes through into a meat grinder. In any case, this is yet another element that has reduced the asymmetry between the two teams.
I'm actually happy to see so many people disagree with my power node suggestion, since that clearly shows how broken power nodes really are.
2 to 2 on Tech Points. Marines split their group to attack Sub and Pipe simultaneously (end it with Exo's, plus JP support). Aliens hit Nano (to probably stop a wave of Exo's/JP+SGs/ARC's), then quickly swung around to hit Control as a counter (possibly base trade while weakening the Marines). Marines focused too much on taking out Overlook and making it to Pipe, they didn't worry about their Main base (Commander included). The player in the video took advantage and played field commander (constant communication with his teammates, guiding them). Marines advanced too far, on multiple fronts and paid for it. The paid for it with the lost of Nano and the lost of Control.
...etc...
Even though the risk was worth it, the Aliens almost lost it all, to an even riskier Marine team.
Also, look at how the rest of the Alien team defended to slow down the Marines advance. It wasn't just the base attack on Control that helped the Aliens come out ahead, it was also how they survived a fairly strong (very risky) split assault.
Nice analysis. I disagree with the implied conclusion of course (I don't think 3 marines can take a hive or even build a phase gate in 8s), however now that you mention it...
I keep wondering why I don't see more marines in Cargo... well.
This isn't just an example of a single power node snipe in main. Although it is that.
Listening to the team chatter they are simultaneously hitting power in Cargo and take both power nodes.
This is actually a simultaneous DUAL base power raid!
Even more than that, this is done while both Alien hives are being attacked. I can think of no greater example to highlight the balance issues here.
Allow me to clear some of the myths (or attempt to, once again) going on here.
I noticed somebody mentioned that Bile Bomb does double damage to structures. Yeah, no. No, it doesn't. I don't know how many more times I'll have to say this, but... "Do not trust the wiki. Open Decoda in your NS2 folder, use it to open DamageTypes.lua, Balance.lua, BalanceHealth.lua, and BalanceMisc.lua. These will tell you the exact numbers for almost everything, and I guarantee you they're not that hard to read."
Here's some little extracts for you:
// Door - Like Structural but also does damage to Doors. Nothing else damages Doors.
// Corrode - deals normal damage to structures but armor only to non structures
kBileBombDamage = 70 // per second
kBileBombDamageType = kDamageType.Corrode
kBileBombEnergyCost = 20
kBileBombDuration = 5
kSmashDamage = 100
kSmashDamageType = kDamageType.Door
kSmashEnergyCost = 13
That will clear those two up. Bile Bombs do 70 damage per second (stacking up to 5 times per Gorge based on refire rate [Don't quote me, I have a hard time finding the refire rate since it's not in Balance.lua or BileBomb.lua. It's not even in Gorge.lua.]) for 5 seconds. When you see your Onos rear up its legs and Smash, that's 200 damage to structures. It's also intended to break through doors once they're weldable, opening an assault route that was once closed.
Already stated earlier, Power Nodes have 2,000 health and 1,000 armor. Let's see how many Bile Bombs it will take to pop that.
3,000 effective health divided by 350 (full Bile Bomb damage, assuming no falloff from range) leaves us at 8.57 (it goes on but there's no need, we'll round it up) make that 9 Bile Bombs. That's 9 seconds before the node falls to one Gorge, but it can be extended by Nano Shield.
kNanoShieldDuration = 8
Nano Shields last 8 seconds (for now). Assuming you catch the Gorge either before or just as the bombing starts, you can make that duration as much as 16 seconds.
But in this particular scenario, there are two Gorges and an Onos. Let's assume 1 second refire on Smash since, again, I can't find it.
How many Smashes would it take to kill a Power Node at 3,000 effective health, 200 damage per second? 15 seconds. That means one Onos isn't very scary if you're not completely missing it (busy micro'ing ARCs and MACs and shouting at your team... I've had it happen).
But let's put those three together. Initially, the total DPS will be 70+70+200=340. But it doesn't stop there, remember, Bile Bombs stack. So for every second, 140 more DPS starts coming (which will eventually be 700 damage, due to the damage over time nature of Bile Bomb {in this case, two of them}). That's 820 damage by second two, 1,440 damage by second three, 2,200 damage by second four, and 3,100 damage by second five.
Five seconds for one Onos and two Gorges to knock out the power. Yep. And that's not counting if the Khammander has sent a Drifter to Enzyme them, then you've got a party.
The way I see it, this situation is presented by teamwork, and it is a heavy investment of 95 Pres, not counting the cost of upgrades and Bile Bomb. However, it is a problem because it takes down an entire base.
So I come at last to my suggestion that I've been throwing out for a while.
TL;DR - Make Command Chairs... I mean Stations (this is NS2, after all, and not NS1) power buildings within its vicinity (the IP placement range). It becomes a double edged sword. Buildings close to Command will stay up when the lights go out, but if you stick all of your chickens in one tiny coop, they all go to hell when the goop starts flying in.
But it will make attacking other targets much more important. The Observatories will be the first to go, then the Arms Labs, then the IPs.... Would be a lot more fun and a lot more hectic than our current "go for the power node, knock out the lights, knock out the base, clean up the rest" state.
Aliens are getting a tool that allows them to cross the map between any two points - a tool that shares significant similarities with phase gates.
Yes, also in the same sense that leap and cel are like a jet-pack. The gorge tunnel is paid for in Pres, built by gorge and most important, can be entered by marines and fought in by both. This requires far more though into placement than with phase gates, a path between alien and marine base is more risk than the same with a PG.
I'm actually happy to see so many people disagree with my power node suggestion, since that clearly shows how broken power nodes really are.
Broken or not, that was not the reason for people disagreeing with your post. Your post (alien power node) was a comment on asymmetrical aspects anyway, like saying how weak a skulk would be if marines moved at the same speed and could wall-climb.
Comments
We leave the power node socket as is, but aliens now need to build alien versions of power nodes. They have to hook in some kind of organic element that fits into the socket and siphons power. Just as is when marines socket the node, without the node socketed, no harvester resources would be collected, no chambers would be active and no cysts would be active. (hydras excluded) In hive rooms, taking out the power disables all alien upgrade chambers and prevents anyone from spawning in an egg. On the 'pro' side, there would be no marine ninja phase gates in rooms where aliens have socketed the power nodes since marines would need to kill an alien power node to build their own.
Sound fair? Surely if it is *SO EASY* to defend against power node attacks, there should be no reason why the aliens would be impacted by this... Amirite?!? Fair is fair, let's spread the power node love around.
Kill the obs, then the pg and power.
I mean... killing the power node is obviously much more effective but its not as exciting.
I'm in if marines also need to lay carpet everywhere where they want to build.
Uhh... While it's weak to use this argument... asymmetrical? Also, a marine can build something in front of the node; com can beacon to the node and even nano if he's being really fancy.
I take it aliens could only drop this if infection is touching, which means another cyst to place (boring).
But wait, Aliens already have power nodes, their upgrades! Die in a few clips, vital to gameplay and have to buy and grow (and buy) before getting them back.
Splash damage gonna splash.
Ok then. How about this? Aliens get phase gate and beacon too.
They're called Gorge Tunnels.
Honestly, I don't get many bile rushes to my base as marines (maybe that’s why I take this stance :-|)
Gorge Tunnels aren't phase gates. My point is that marines can almost instantaneously teleport to a location under attack. Gorge Tunnels provide no such function (as far as I know)
Similar, but different.
Imagine if aliens could use Phase gates?
If aliens could use phase gates, they'd never be able to kill them except at range.
The whole point of mentioning beacon and phase gates was because marines can respond to a sneak attack quicker, which balances out the fact their base can go down quicker to a sneak attack (hp of power node and marine structures is a lot less than of hive). Marines can respond literally in seconds. Aliens can't - with or without gorge tunnels.
Does that mean you can't make eggs in a tunnel?
Everything about gorge tunnels is speculation until we actually see what the content patch provides.
I will note, however, that your expectation is still unfair with and (I feel) without the powernode bug in play. The issue isn't if marines can stop this sniping, the issue is should it be this way?
Why don't we increase bile's effectiveness by 150%? With 100% map awareness all the time that's 7 seconds to nano the powernode (3 extra seconds because the comm saw the dots on the map the moment the observatory picked the attack up). 4 additional seconds right there with nano. Any marine team worth their salt can either defend their base in that time or they deserve to lose. That's fair right?
The fact marines "can" stop these attacks doesn't mean it should stay this way. I remember in SC2 that reapers were extremely powerful and could cripple a zerg player's economy if played right. Could the zerg win? Yes, duh. All you have to do is kill the reapers using XYZ. However, it wasn't FUN for zerg in any way, it wasn't interesting to watch and it was too easy for Terrans to do it so Blizzard nerfed it.
Now I'm not saying UWE should cripple bilebomb but something needs to be looked at such that I don't feel dirty when I go in the marines base and win with this strategy. Power Node bug fix being the first obvious step and then going from there.
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/128390/power-node-health-boostidea
That might "fix" the problem.
More health = more time to respond.
Fair is fair. If we are going to have these "I win" buttons in the game, make them apply to BOTH sides.
Just not to the same degree.
Instant is instant, gorge tunnels are not.
Plus they only connect two locations with each other instead of multiple, allow the enemy to pass through as well, are only buildable by a single dedicated unit on Pres cost and can instantly kill someone who is using it at the right time.
The comparison is about as valid as "marines can use crouch to become silent - so they are the same as Skulks".
2 to 2 on Tech Points. Marines split their group to attack Sub and Pipe simultaneously (end it with Exo's, plus JP support). Aliens hit Nano (to probably stop a wave of Exo's/JP+SGs/ARC's), then quickly swung around to hit Control as a counter (possibly base trade while weakening the Marines). Marines focused too much on taking out Overlook and making it to Pipe, they didn't worry about their Main base (Commander included). The player in the video took advantage and played field commander (constant communication with his teammates, guiding them). Marines advanced too far, on multiple fronts and paid for it. The paid for it with the lost of Nano and the lost of Control.
Even with those losses, the Marines had a chance to drop two hives in 20 seconds (ending the game). If you listen, you hear how the Marines at Pipe hesitated, instead of attacking. A few changes in Marines play, this video wouldn't have been used in this tutorial. If you reverse the roles, positions, tactics, the Aliens could easily lose a Hive to an Exo, JP+SG, JP+FT, in about 10 seconds. The difference is, the Aliens actually loses the Hive, rather than have a potential temporary loss of upgrades.
The Aliens in the video don't seem to be thinking it's going to be easy. It looks like they know they are taking a risk, being very careful to avoid early detection. If the Control rush failed (which I've seen fail many times), they lose an Onos, the momentum gained from taking Nano, and practically all pressure on the Marines. The Exo's in Cargo and Overlook could carelessly walk in to Sub and drop the Aliens to one Hive (sorta like they did anyway). Even though the risk was worth it, the Aliens almost lost it all, to an even riskier Marine team.
Also, look at how the rest of the Alien team defended to slow down the Marines advance. It wasn't just the base attack on Control that helped the Aliens come out ahead, it was also how they survived a fairly strong (very risky) split assault.
Answering the OPs questions:
1.) 3 JP Marines (2 SG, 1 FT, all carrying Welders) - If it's the same scenario, the skulk/gorge Khammander hops out, gets one-shot, while the rest of the Aliens are too far away to save the Hive. By the time the Aliens get back, the 3 Marines have a PG & Armory up. This kinda thing happens when Aliens have Cave Hive and push Operations/Deposit. I've solo Knifed, shotguns, LMG'd Cave Hive (Full Health and Mature) down a few times. Bad Aliens?
2.) W2+A2 or W3+A1(maybe no armor upgrades), 3 Marines who can hit the side of a Barn, plus a Nano-Shield on the Power Node. You can either focus down the Gorges (2 on 1 Gorge at a time) then focus the Onos, or focus on the Onos until he turns or dies then focus the Gorges. If you go Gorges first, the Nano can keep the Power Node up long enough to finish the Onos. If you go Onos first, you kill the Onos, possibly lose the shielded Power Node, kill the energy drained Gorges and repair the Power Node (the 10 second wait should be up by then).
3.) The video looks like both sides took a risk; the Marines took a bigger risk. If going by the video alone, it's fine. I didn't see a single Marine come through the Control PG, or a Marine spawn there. I assume the Marines were very focused on killing two Alien Hives simultaneously.
The power node according to the manual gives out one warning, at 40% HP it or lower it will flash the message across the screen, that's why people say to focus power first, if no one is looking at the map and even if they were thanks to obs passive scan being completely useless it could be 1-2 cysts into the base for all the comm/person on the other side of the map knows.
Even if nano shield completely blocked bile they'd just turn onto the obs/pg/armoury/chair, probably hitting 2-4 buildings at once taking down 20-50+ tres for 2 10 pres life forms with a 20 tres upgrade.
I'm actually happy to see so many people disagree with my power node suggestion, since that clearly shows how broken power nodes really are.
Nice analysis. I disagree with the implied conclusion of course (I don't think 3 marines can take a hive or even build a phase gate in 8s), however now that you mention it...
I keep wondering why I don't see more marines in Cargo... well.
This isn't just an example of a single power node snipe in main. Although it is that.
Listening to the team chatter they are simultaneously hitting power in Cargo and take both power nodes.
This is actually a simultaneous DUAL base power raid!
Even more than that, this is done while both Alien hives are being attacked. I can think of no greater example to highlight the balance issues here.
I noticed somebody mentioned that Bile Bomb does double damage to structures. Yeah, no. No, it doesn't. I don't know how many more times I'll have to say this, but... "Do not trust the wiki. Open Decoda in your NS2 folder, use it to open DamageTypes.lua, Balance.lua, BalanceHealth.lua, and BalanceMisc.lua. These will tell you the exact numbers for almost everything, and I guarantee you they're not that hard to read."
Here's some little extracts for you:
That will clear those two up. Bile Bombs do 70 damage per second (stacking up to 5 times per Gorge based on refire rate [Don't quote me, I have a hard time finding the refire rate since it's not in Balance.lua or BileBomb.lua. It's not even in Gorge.lua.]) for 5 seconds. When you see your Onos rear up its legs and Smash, that's 200 damage to structures. It's also intended to break through doors once they're weldable, opening an assault route that was once closed.
Now, let's get some more numbers!
Already stated earlier, Power Nodes have 2,000 health and 1,000 armor. Let's see how many Bile Bombs it will take to pop that.
3,000 effective health divided by 350 (full Bile Bomb damage, assuming no falloff from range) leaves us at 8.57 (it goes on but there's no need, we'll round it up) make that 9 Bile Bombs. That's 9 seconds before the node falls to one Gorge, but it can be extended by Nano Shield.
Nano Shields last 8 seconds (for now). Assuming you catch the Gorge either before or just as the bombing starts, you can make that duration as much as 16 seconds.
But in this particular scenario, there are two Gorges and an Onos. Let's assume 1 second refire on Smash since, again, I can't find it.
How many Smashes would it take to kill a Power Node at 3,000 effective health, 200 damage per second? 15 seconds. That means one Onos isn't very scary if you're not completely missing it (busy micro'ing ARCs and MACs and shouting at your team... I've had it happen).
But let's put those three together. Initially, the total DPS will be 70+70+200=340. But it doesn't stop there, remember, Bile Bombs stack. So for every second, 140 more DPS starts coming (which will eventually be 700 damage, due to the damage over time nature of Bile Bomb {in this case, two of them}). That's 820 damage by second two, 1,440 damage by second three, 2,200 damage by second four, and 3,100 damage by second five.
Five seconds for one Onos and two Gorges to knock out the power. Yep. And that's not counting if the Khammander has sent a Drifter to Enzyme them, then you've got a party.
The way I see it, this situation is presented by teamwork, and it is a heavy investment of 95 Pres, not counting the cost of upgrades and Bile Bomb. However, it is a problem because it takes down an entire base.
So I come at last to my suggestion that I've been throwing out for a while.
TL;DR - Make Command Chairs... I mean Stations (this is NS2, after all, and not NS1) power buildings within its vicinity (the IP placement range). It becomes a double edged sword. Buildings close to Command will stay up when the lights go out, but if you stick all of your chickens in one tiny coop, they all go to hell when the goop starts flying in.
But it will make attacking other targets much more important. The Observatories will be the first to go, then the Arms Labs, then the IPs.... Would be a lot more fun and a lot more hectic than our current "go for the power node, knock out the lights, knock out the base, clean up the rest" state.
What do you think?
Yes, also in the same sense that leap and cel are like a jet-pack. The gorge tunnel is paid for in Pres, built by gorge and most important, can be entered by marines and fought in by both. This requires far more though into placement than with phase gates, a path between alien and marine base is more risk than the same with a PG.
Broken or not, that was not the reason for people disagreeing with your post. Your post (alien power node) was a comment on asymmetrical aspects anyway, like saying how weak a skulk would be if marines moved at the same speed and could wall-climb.