This is unrelated to the previous posts, but I'd like to say that the skulks movement when not jumping - while pressing both w+a or w+d (strafe + forward) - really seems wrong. I seems like you're going way more forward then on the side (diagonal movements are messed up). It doesn't feel right IMO.
The movement is also messed when trying to stick to the ceiling. I do feel like I fall wayyyyyy more; meaning the overall "adherence" to the ceiling is probably less, due to the new movement system. I do feel the skulk should stick more easily to the walls.
I do prefer the new movement with simili-bhopping; but when non-jumping, it seems horrible IMO.
I'm not saying 0 spread is the best way to go about it, to be honest, I don't see too much difference between vanilla spread vs no spread, I'm quite happy with it. I'm just saying if I had to pick one I'd pick 0 spread just because I don't see any reason to have spread in the first place. Your 1) point says "Aliens are op at long range (laughable. The entire point of higher spread was the opposite).", obviously not, but that's the whole point, that's their weak zone, that's where you have the advantage, at range...so why change that so aliens can get closer to their advantage for stupid reasons avoiding the need to ambush as much. I know it isn't a lot of spread and in most cases it wouldn't matter, it just seems silly, and like I've already said, random elements are dumb, having a CHANCE at winning is stupid.
You probably disagree with me but tbh I don't really care, I don't feel THAT strongly about my point, it's just my view, but my opinion is DEFINITELY that spread should stay the same as vanilla.
The way I understand every single player in this game misses more than they hit by a large margin, so a spread increase at close range is a buff and at longer ranges is the very slightest of possible nerfs, can not see a problem with this except maybe it's impossible to miss at close range now or will possibly benefit spray and pray like many other FPS games devolve into.
And you should be rewarded for missing at close range because....
For the same reason that being accurate at a distance is punished, of course?
Not that i agree with it, but it does make the game more accessible, purely within theory-crafting-balance, thanks to a lowered skill floor (rewarded when missing) and skill ceiling (punished when accurate)
But... Supposedly its not a skill, being able to track accurately at long distances, its just the implementation's "effectiveness"...
:-O
You say long range - I still am waiting for what range that constitutes. I see alot of complaints about spread but not one post that is more then just whining. So ill ask again, what range should the rifle be able to 15 bullet a skulk at.
No matter how long the target is you should be able to aim almost perfectly with the rifle. Longer the target is, the harder it is to aim. Its not even possible to see "too far away" targets in this game(Lerk on the other side of grevice - you at the extractor. It disappears.)
Current spread is horrible, needs to be lowered! If the game needs to be balanced, make the balance out of something else than skill based mechanic, like aim for example.
So, do you think the LMG is underpowered? Can 1 lmg marine not take out 2-3 skulks anymore? Because i don't find this to have changed from vanilla.
Are you one of those marines? I find it is harder to kill lerks and multiple skulks in balance mod.
If you really want to increase spread for the LMG, at least make it so you can control it to some extent by burst firing. Any significant degree of random uncontrollable spread is just frustrating in general, and isn't really needed for a game like this imo.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited June 2013
Wow fades are fast.. a halfway decent fade is *really* hard to kill right now just due to pure speed! The average skilled human is not going to be able to track that fast
While it may be easier to survive by being faster, and feel fun for that individual, it makes it far more difficult for less skilled players on the other team to track the target.
Conversely, is the lerk now slower than skulk and fade?
Also, anecdotally, despite HP similarities i can't help but feel like its easier to die as a lerk now.. is the acceleration not the same, or something? Is it the double check for the hitscan that indirectly fixed something? Is it the spread? IDK.. but man is it tough without cara, and celerity doesn't do much either.
Lerks need to flap a lot more than previously to keep near max speed, with celerity they feel pretty quick still, but fades are definitely the kings of speed because of how much flexibility blink gives you. Lerks don't feel that powerful in the early game now compared to live even though they're not dying super fast like in some previous builds and it feels like you're only there for umbra. Maybe it's just that fades seem to be more dominating as soon as they come into play which makes the lerk's niche as an early slayer of marines smaller, combined with the hitreg and movement changes which result in you being less able to just fly around like an idiot and not soak up too many bullets.
p.s. I'm pretty dumb and it took me a while to realise it but the 'puncture damage scalar' change actually means that swipe and spikes do the same damage to marines now but lower damage to structures. I guess this is a pretty significant change in as much as that it takes a fadeball quite a lot longer to kill structures.
Which strictly follows patterns, compensating for them is a big part of the game. NS2 spread is pure random and isn't affected by movement, shooting or taking damage. That isn't a bad thing, but when the spread is raised in NS2 aiming only becomes less important of a skill.
Falloff damage is an alternative, if skulks or lerks getting shot from a distance really is a problem that needs to be solved by changing marine shooting mechanics. With it you could get the same end result as purely random inaccurate gun (less damage) but with none of the randomness (never miss your shots due to the throw of a dice).
TF2 has an option to turn off random spread, this is used on all competitive servers (whether they are pub or match servers). It has falloff damage on top of that as well as random critical hits (though these can also be disabled). TF2 is intended for a much more casual audience.
AiorosJoin Date: 2003-03-24Member: 14850Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
Yesterdays games, i saw at least a handful of fades which got missed longrange by the lmg. Which changed the outcome of the game (alien wins).
Remove the spread and let marins be able to hit where they aim.
Even though quake has spread the MG in quake is pretty damn accurate, the shotgun has a fixed spread. Also, there's a big difference between spread and splash damage.
Even though if sewlek changes the spread, damage etc on bullets in pubs to some weird value, most of us probably brush it off as having a bad day.
Accuracy should be rewarded, obviously. I think a marine should have one hell of an advantage shooting down a long hallway but at the same time the LMG shouldn't be a sniper rifle. I don't know if the previous spread is better, but I really want it lowered.
So of every matches we played in the BT cup aliens rushed cara to fade explosion.
I can feel the difference with vanilla!
The bigger lmg spread lets average aimers spamming skulks in
close quarter to win their 1v1.
But didn't you want a higher skill ceiling? How was the lmg broken? Why do you need to change it?
I know a pankaking lerk was broken and unkillable nearly but wasnt it specific to this class?
Top marines could still win 1v2 or even if you watch good vods 1v3 with good positioning against skulks.
To me the game feels even more slow with marines having to camp their rts more and aliens just tanking with gorges in packs again.
But maybe the problem isn't the upgrade path or the bullshit let's remove the pres to the comm?
This guy in his "It's time we start talking about the real culprit behind the horrendeous balance" nailed it, the aliens not needing gorges (the builder/assist class of the aliens in ns1) to build anything every player is a potential lifeform. Well not really even the comm is now since a gorge costs 5 and you can endlessly 1-gorge near marine base 2-bilebomb 3-???? 4-profit, rinse and repeat.
A gorge rush is still a good thing to me when the right call is made but we are not talking about a "last chance gorge rush to change the outcome "! We talk about a player just dedicated to do that 5x 6x in a row.
Higher skill ceiling much? (high reward low risk)
We know the smoke effects in the game are making the fps drop yet now you make the aliens rely on multiple spamming powers to win engagements wich has 2 major effect: again a lower skill ceiling since the skulks can make more errors being buffed by these, and the marine pov being spammed with useless sprites making them lag. And yes some alien comms were spamming mysts in the middle of fights to make marines lag against their skulks in vanilla.
So i know! Let's give marines catalyst to counter the drifter spam but be sure to had some blue electrical effect on the marines torso to make it super cool and lag incoming skulk packs!
The game is becoming symmetrical in a mutliple way and more comm dependent. The problem is exactly like in ns1 most players will occasionally comm 1 round in 50 and enjoy more the shotgunning of fades, sneaking on marines as skulks etc... In a pub, you have 1 player in the chair 10 on the field, should these 10 players totally be dependent on the 1 commanding?
ns2 is an hybrid ok but again i repeat myself it's first best defined as a fast paced fps where personnal skills should most of the time overcome commanding micros like buff drops etc...
The game is becoming symmetrical in a mutliple way and more comm dependent. The problem is exactly like in ns1 most players will occasionally comm 1 round in 50 and enjoy more the shotgunning of fades, sneaking on marines as skulks etc... In a pub, you have 1 player in the chair 10 on the field, should these 10 players totally be dependent on the 1 commanding?
ns2 is an hybrid ok but again i repeat myself it's first best defined as a fast paced fps where personnal skills should most of the time overcome commanding micros like buff drops etc...
there's your problem, UWE, too much focus on the FPS, firstly the engine has issues maintaining consistent FPS, which rules out the fast pace of it, just means who has the better computer wins, 99% of people won't approve of that.
Also thematically the commander is the essence that makes this game, because without it this game isn't really wroth its position, just look how shallow combat is!
I'd say pushing for a more equal FPS/RTS format is the way to go, where strategy and timings are the ways to victory not who has the better computer, I believe NS1 did better because it stayed more true to it's hybrid roots, and didn't pander to the FPS community.
I believe making the game as complicated as a paradox interactive game, but with the FPS view is the way to go.
Accuracy should be rewarded, obviously. I think a marine should have one hell of an advantage shooting down a long hallway but at the same time the LMG shouldn't be a sniper rifle. I don't know if the previous spread is better, but I really want it lowered.
I'm torn on this. On one hand I agree that 0 spread would be OK, rewards skill and keeps marines ranged advantage. On the other hand I feel it would lessen the role of the pistol. Damage falloff on the LMG would probably by the best compromise here, no random element but you can't use it to snipe distant aliens you'd need to switch to your pistol for that.
Having said that, 0 spread does raise the skill floor. Having an option to turn up your spread would be beneficial for rookies. Have an option at the armory to modify the LMG with 0 spread or 2-3 spread, both with damage falloff. Add an option to decide which you would spawn with. The default would be with spread, but once you were comfortable with your aim you'd switch to using the 0 spread type.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
The coms in NS2 are what NS2 makes so special. Remove them and NS2 lost his soul.
There many many many games that fit more to your gamestyle maybe if you want "pure" skill.
Small feedback to the current version of BT:
BT wants to introduce more skillbased stuff, wich is ok. But the current flamer didnt fit in this concept. Its a bit to strong in my opinion.
There is something wrong with the onos movement. It feels like the skating-bug sometimes.
The techtree changes still end in mass-fades with cara. So nothing changed to vanilla here. An solution against the techexplosion would be nice.
Im still voting for an system where players have to spend there pres to advance the tech for the team.
In NS2 some had to go gorge to build harvesters. If they dont do that, the team lost time. So you didnt had 6 fades on the same time on the field.
Im sure something similar (not the same) is possible in NS2.
I believe making the game as complicated as a paradox interactive game, but with the FPS view is the way to go.
I think this is the wrong way. NS2 is already complex enough.
NS1 compared to NS2 was relatively simple: No tech points for marines, no powernodes, no cysts, less equipment, less alien chambers yet NS1 did not lack any depth at all.
I think UWE has somewhat overcomplicated the game with the new stuff and that's also a prime reason for the horrible balance. I dont think there will ever be a somewhat acceptable balance because there are simply too many factors involved. Also, the complexity overwhelms new players that were already overwhelmed by NS1!
I want to stress this again, NS1 was relatively simple but allowed for a multitude of tactics, whereas it seems NS2 is overcomplicated while allowing for less tactics!
I believe making the game as complicated as a paradox interactive game, but with the FPS view is the way to go.
I think this is the wrong way. NS2 is already complex enough.
NS1 compared to NS2 was relatively simple: No tech points for marines, no powernodes, no cysts, less equipment, less alien chambers yet NS1 did not lack any depth at all.
I think UWE has somewhat overcomplicated the game with the new stuff and that's also a prime reason for the horrible balance. I dont think there will ever be a somewhat acceptable balance because there are simply too many factors involved. Also, the complexity overwhelms new players that were already overwhelmed by NS1!
I want to stress this again, NS1 was relatively simple but allowed for a multitude of tactics, whereas it seems NS2 is overcomplicated while allowing for less tactics!
None of those are complicated, it's not hard to build power nodes or place cysts(also a common complaint is that they're a very dull), and people do complain quite a bit about tech-points removing the ability to make up unique tactics.
This game in comparison to grand strategy or 4X games is very simple, but I'm not saying compete with them, but at-least reach C&C or Starcraft level, the more intermediate level, people don't leave games if they're complicated, it's more to do with having a clear ethos, which NS2 doesn't have, it's seem UWE can not quite make up its mind of being a FPS game or strategy, too much swaying by them.
Also I just don't won't twitch to be a deciding factor of a winning game, teamwork and tactics should win games.
I think a good ethos to go with is to make a RTS game with an FPS point of view, stop making the game around FPS, but just make a straight up RTS game with the FPS view.
So of every matches we played in the BT cup aliens rushed cara to fade explosion.
I can feel the difference with vanilla!
The bigger lmg spread lets average aimers spamming skulks in
close quarter to win their 1v1.
But didn't you want a higher skill ceiling? How was the lmg broken? Why do you need to change it?
The new lmg spread has no real impact on fights under 15m, meaning close range fights are the same. In long range fights its not enough to aim at the edge of the skulk model anymore, you have to aim at the middle of the skulk for maximum dps. I would say that increases the skill ceiling quite a bit.
If your aim is just off the target in a very long range fight you might get 1-2 stray bullets on the skulks if you are lucky, so if you want to have a chance of skilling the skulk you have to be aiming at it. Just like before.
JektJoin Date: 2012-02-05Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited June 2013
I agree mostly with Herakles, and I've said this once every 10 pages.
Until pres sinks (or gains) are implemented that break up the resource counts considerably across the alien team you're going to see 4-5 fade explosions in every competitive game. And even if they are implemented, will only be utilized if it is considered optimal and worthwhile to get fades up in a more gradual manner than to evolve 5 at once. Shotguns have the same problem, at no cost to tres economy or weapon composition efficiency, it is possible to all of a sudden have everyone round buy 5 shotguns over and over. On top of what gets recycled.
NS1 gorge building made fade explosions a non issue. If everyone went fade early, you had no RTs, chambers or hive. The alien commander and two separate res pools has broken everything. I think everyone knows that by now. Still need to work around the elephant in the room though.
In TF2 the static spread only applies to shotguns, and it was done because during some fights, one scout would get lucky and get more bullets hitting the center than the other scout
Other than that the game has no spread anywhere besides the heavys minigun and snipers smg, afaik there is no other auto guns in that game, mind you that I uninstalled that garbage when it became garbage
Also the "spread" in ns2 only applies to skulks, it won't affect your hitting of lerks/fades
And it only applies to skulks at range; since the improved hit detection/higher framerates shooting skulks is easier than ever, having a sniper of a rifle to nail them at long ranges is no good.
As for close range, it barely helps and it only helps the average player; competitive players don't miss at that range regardless of what the spread is. You guys are over-doing it, also last week sewlek made the gun have no spread again and people were still complaining about spread so the fact is most of you don't even notice the difference (especially the 2 month period of increased spread, where nobody said anything until someone informed them that spread changed)
And for people testing at walls, good joke
It's not a big deal and will probably never be a big deal, if it changes in the future than it does if it doesn't then it doesn't. If it changes only difference is now shooting skulks at long range is easier and now more casual players will have a worse time at closer ranges, just barely though because it's only a bullet difference assuming they're even slightly on target
Wow fades are fast.. a halfway decent fade is *really* hard to kill right now just due to pure speed! The average skilled human is not going to be able to track that fast
While it may be easier to survive by being faster, and feel fun for that individual, it makes it far more difficult for less skilled players on the other team to track the target.
I'm putting some hours in to BT now and that's kinda how I feel too. Though to be fair I *think* fades can be fast or they can be deadly. If fades stop to swipe a target multiple times it's kinda slow to get moving again.
Conversely, is the lerk now slower than skulk and fade?
Also, anecdotally, despite HP similarities i can't help but feel like its easier to die as a lerk now.. is the acceleration not the same, or something? Is it the double check for the hitscan that indirectly fixed something? Is it the spread? IDK.. but man is it tough without cara, and celerity doesn't do much either.
I haven't played Lerk but I have found it easier to take them down. I thought it was because of higher shotgun rof plus more lift from the jetpack. With JP I'm finding it easier to get in to position where I think a Lerk will exit the room.
Here you can see the difference between the different spreads. Both takes are shot from the same distance from back of the corridor. My guess why they changed the degree is that new or not so good players could have easier time on the field. That's because now it's not possible to demolish skulks in high range with LMG, which gives easier time especially for bad skulks. Time to spit those parasites, time to react, easier to escape in long distances, not caring so much about the positioning etc. In medium range it's easier as a marine to land hits, because of the larger spread, which could make a killing machine out even from an average player. There is of course this luck factor with larger randomized spread, which could ruin your kill even if you were aiming in the center of the skulk or could give you a frag even if you weren't aiming at the skulk so precisely. I don't see how this rewards players who are looking for skill based action.
I've never heard complains about the vanilla spread, I can't say the same about this new BT spread. I don't like luck factors in skill based game, simple as that. So is it so necessary to change the spread? With the current player base, UWE needs to be very careful about these changes, because they might decrease the population even more.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
Oh my god, who has the great idea to introduce bhop for marines?
Today on glass hallway one marine jump down to reactor on around double speed than normal running.
I mean, wtf.
Walljumpmechanics are ok for skulks. This fit into the game but not on marineside.
Bhop iteslf is ok in games like Quake3 or Unreal tournament but not in games like Counterstrike, Battlefield or NS2.
Im so excited to see something like this soon for ns2:
So just make it "commander dropped, gorge built" then?
Yes please.
Would be a step in the right direction I think, because it seems to me the problem at the moment is that drifters have completely taken up the role of builder, as it's still faster, less risky, and allows you to keep all alien players on fighting duty in comparison to having someone go gorge to build stuff. So now you have the decreased pres cost for gorges, only to see it used to double the amount of suicide bilebomb rushing. ^^
Comments
The movement is also messed when trying to stick to the ceiling. I do feel like I fall wayyyyyy more; meaning the overall "adherence" to the ceiling is probably less, due to the new movement system. I do feel the skulk should stick more easily to the walls.
I do prefer the new movement with simili-bhopping; but when non-jumping, it seems horrible IMO.
You probably disagree with me but tbh I don't really care, I don't feel THAT strongly about my point, it's just my view, but my opinion is DEFINITELY that spread should stay the same as vanilla.
Not that i agree with it, but it does make the game more accessible, purely within theory-crafting-balance, thanks to a lowered skill floor (rewarded when missing) and skill ceiling (punished when accurate)
But... Supposedly its not a skill, being able to track accurately at long distances, its just the implementation's "effectiveness"...
:-O
No matter how long the target is you should be able to aim almost perfectly with the rifle. Longer the target is, the harder it is to aim. Its not even possible to see "too far away" targets in this game(Lerk on the other side of grevice - you at the extractor. It disappears.)
Are you one of those marines? I find it is harder to kill lerks and multiple skulks in balance mod.
While it may be easier to survive by being faster, and feel fun for that individual, it makes it far more difficult for less skilled players on the other team to track the target.
Conversely, is the lerk now slower than skulk and fade?
Also, anecdotally, despite HP similarities i can't help but feel like its easier to die as a lerk now.. is the acceleration not the same, or something? Is it the double check for the hitscan that indirectly fixed something? Is it the spread? IDK.. but man is it tough without cara, and celerity doesn't do much either.
p.s. I'm pretty dumb and it took me a while to realise it but the 'puncture damage scalar' change actually means that swipe and spikes do the same damage to marines now but lower damage to structures. I guess this is a pretty significant change in as much as that it takes a fadeball quite a lot longer to kill structures.
Falloff damage is an alternative, if skulks or lerks getting shot from a distance really is a problem that needs to be solved by changing marine shooting mechanics. With it you could get the same end result as purely random inaccurate gun (less damage) but with none of the randomness (never miss your shots due to the throw of a dice).
TF2 has an option to turn off random spread, this is used on all competitive servers (whether they are pub or match servers). It has falloff damage on top of that as well as random critical hits (though these can also be disabled). TF2 is intended for a much more casual audience.
Quake has little spread but the targets are also much bigger than the NS2 aliens.
Rockets most definitely do not have spread. Grenades has a random element if you don't get a direct hit and they start to bounce.
Remove the spread and let marins be able to hit where they aim.
Even though if sewlek changes the spread, damage etc on bullets in pubs to some weird value, most of us probably brush it off as having a bad day.
Accuracy should be rewarded, obviously. I think a marine should have one hell of an advantage shooting down a long hallway but at the same time the LMG shouldn't be a sniper rifle. I don't know if the previous spread is better, but I really want it lowered.
I can feel the difference with vanilla!
The bigger lmg spread lets average aimers spamming skulks in
close quarter to win their 1v1.
But didn't you want a higher skill ceiling? How was the lmg broken? Why do you need to change it?
I know a pankaking lerk was broken and unkillable nearly but wasnt it specific to this class?
Top marines could still win 1v2 or even if you watch good vods 1v3 with good positioning against skulks.
To me the game feels even more slow with marines having to camp their rts more and aliens just tanking with gorges in packs again.
But maybe the problem isn't the upgrade path or the bullshit let's remove the pres to the comm?
This guy in his "It's time we start talking about the real culprit behind the horrendeous balance" nailed it, the aliens not needing gorges (the builder/assist class of the aliens in ns1) to build anything every player is a potential lifeform. Well not really even the comm is now since a gorge costs 5 and you can endlessly 1-gorge near marine base 2-bilebomb 3-???? 4-profit, rinse and repeat.
A gorge rush is still a good thing to me when the right call is made but we are not talking about a "last chance gorge rush to change the outcome "! We talk about a player just dedicated to do that 5x 6x in a row.
Higher skill ceiling much? (high reward low risk)
We know the smoke effects in the game are making the fps drop yet now you make the aliens rely on multiple spamming powers to win engagements wich has 2 major effect: again a lower skill ceiling since the skulks can make more errors being buffed by these, and the marine pov being spammed with useless sprites making them lag. And yes some alien comms were spamming mysts in the middle of fights to make marines lag against their skulks in vanilla.
So i know! Let's give marines catalyst to counter the drifter spam but be sure to had some blue electrical effect on the marines torso to make it super cool and lag incoming skulk packs!
The game is becoming symmetrical in a mutliple way and more comm dependent. The problem is exactly like in ns1 most players will occasionally comm 1 round in 50 and enjoy more the shotgunning of fades, sneaking on marines as skulks etc... In a pub, you have 1 player in the chair 10 on the field, should these 10 players totally be dependent on the 1 commanding?
ns2 is an hybrid ok but again i repeat myself it's first best defined as a fast paced fps where personnal skills should most of the time overcome commanding micros like buff drops etc...
there's your problem, UWE, too much focus on the FPS, firstly the engine has issues maintaining consistent FPS, which rules out the fast pace of it, just means who has the better computer wins, 99% of people won't approve of that.
Also thematically the commander is the essence that makes this game, because without it this game isn't really wroth its position, just look how shallow combat is!
I'd say pushing for a more equal FPS/RTS format is the way to go, where strategy and timings are the ways to victory not who has the better computer, I believe NS1 did better because it stayed more true to it's hybrid roots, and didn't pander to the FPS community.
I believe making the game as complicated as a paradox interactive game, but with the FPS view is the way to go.
I'm torn on this. On one hand I agree that 0 spread would be OK, rewards skill and keeps marines ranged advantage. On the other hand I feel it would lessen the role of the pistol. Damage falloff on the LMG would probably by the best compromise here, no random element but you can't use it to snipe distant aliens you'd need to switch to your pistol for that.
Having said that, 0 spread does raise the skill floor. Having an option to turn up your spread would be beneficial for rookies. Have an option at the armory to modify the LMG with 0 spread or 2-3 spread, both with damage falloff. Add an option to decide which you would spawn with. The default would be with spread, but once you were comfortable with your aim you'd switch to using the 0 spread type.
There many many many games that fit more to your gamestyle maybe if you want "pure" skill.
Small feedback to the current version of BT:
BT wants to introduce more skillbased stuff, wich is ok. But the current flamer didnt fit in this concept. Its a bit to strong in my opinion.
There is something wrong with the onos movement. It feels like the skating-bug sometimes.
The techtree changes still end in mass-fades with cara. So nothing changed to vanilla here. An solution against the techexplosion would be nice.
Im still voting for an system where players have to spend there pres to advance the tech for the team.
In NS2 some had to go gorge to build harvesters. If they dont do that, the team lost time. So you didnt had 6 fades on the same time on the field.
Im sure something similar (not the same) is possible in NS2.
I think this is the wrong way. NS2 is already complex enough.
NS1 compared to NS2 was relatively simple: No tech points for marines, no powernodes, no cysts, less equipment, less alien chambers yet NS1 did not lack any depth at all.
I think UWE has somewhat overcomplicated the game with the new stuff and that's also a prime reason for the horrible balance. I dont think there will ever be a somewhat acceptable balance because there are simply too many factors involved. Also, the complexity overwhelms new players that were already overwhelmed by NS1!
I want to stress this again, NS1 was relatively simple but allowed for a multitude of tactics, whereas it seems NS2 is overcomplicated while allowing for less tactics!
None of those are complicated, it's not hard to build power nodes or place cysts(also a common complaint is that they're a very dull), and people do complain quite a bit about tech-points removing the ability to make up unique tactics.
This game in comparison to grand strategy or 4X games is very simple, but I'm not saying compete with them, but at-least reach C&C or Starcraft level, the more intermediate level, people don't leave games if they're complicated, it's more to do with having a clear ethos, which NS2 doesn't have, it's seem UWE can not quite make up its mind of being a FPS game or strategy, too much swaying by them.
Also I just don't won't twitch to be a deciding factor of a winning game, teamwork and tactics should win games.
I think a good ethos to go with is to make a RTS game with an FPS point of view, stop making the game around FPS, but just make a straight up RTS game with the FPS view.
If your aim is just off the target in a very long range fight you might get 1-2 stray bullets on the skulks if you are lucky, so if you want to have a chance of skilling the skulk you have to be aiming at it. Just like before.
Until pres sinks (or gains) are implemented that break up the resource counts considerably across the alien team you're going to see 4-5 fade explosions in every competitive game. And even if they are implemented, will only be utilized if it is considered optimal and worthwhile to get fades up in a more gradual manner than to evolve 5 at once. Shotguns have the same problem, at no cost to tres economy or weapon composition efficiency, it is possible to all of a sudden have everyone round buy 5 shotguns over and over. On top of what gets recycled.
NS1 gorge building made fade explosions a non issue. If everyone went fade early, you had no RTs, chambers or hive. The alien commander and two separate res pools has broken everything. I think everyone knows that by now. Still need to work around the elephant in the room though.
Other than that the game has no spread anywhere besides the heavys minigun and snipers smg, afaik there is no other auto guns in that game, mind you that I uninstalled that garbage when it became garbage
Also the "spread" in ns2 only applies to skulks, it won't affect your hitting of lerks/fades
And it only applies to skulks at range; since the improved hit detection/higher framerates shooting skulks is easier than ever, having a sniper of a rifle to nail them at long ranges is no good.
As for close range, it barely helps and it only helps the average player; competitive players don't miss at that range regardless of what the spread is. You guys are over-doing it, also last week sewlek made the gun have no spread again and people were still complaining about spread so the fact is most of you don't even notice the difference (especially the 2 month period of increased spread, where nobody said anything until someone informed them that spread changed)
And for people testing at walls, good joke
It's not a big deal and will probably never be a big deal, if it changes in the future than it does if it doesn't then it doesn't. If it changes only difference is now shooting skulks at long range is easier and now more casual players will have a worse time at closer ranges, just barely though because it's only a bullet difference assuming they're even slightly on target
I haven't played Lerk but I have found it easier to take them down. I thought it was because of higher shotgun rof plus more lift from the jetpack. With JP I'm finding it easier to get in to position where I think a Lerk will exit the room.
Picture 1. Vanilla spread, direct link: http://s9.postimg.org/yggjtbqfi/vanilla_spread.jpg
Picture 2. BT spread, direct link: http://s21.postimg.org/6wse0tmrq/bt_spread.jpg
Here you can see the difference between the different spreads. Both takes are shot from the same distance from back of the corridor. My guess why they changed the degree is that new or not so good players could have easier time on the field. That's because now it's not possible to demolish skulks in high range with LMG, which gives easier time especially for bad skulks. Time to spit those parasites, time to react, easier to escape in long distances, not caring so much about the positioning etc. In medium range it's easier as a marine to land hits, because of the larger spread, which could make a killing machine out even from an average player. There is of course this luck factor with larger randomized spread, which could ruin your kill even if you were aiming in the center of the skulk or could give you a frag even if you weren't aiming at the skulk so precisely. I don't see how this rewards players who are looking for skill based action.
I've never heard complains about the vanilla spread, I can't say the same about this new BT spread. I don't like luck factors in skill based game, simple as that. So is it so necessary to change the spread? With the current player base, UWE needs to be very careful about these changes, because they might decrease the population even more.
Today on glass hallway one marine jump down to reactor on around double speed than normal running.
I mean, wtf.
Walljumpmechanics are ok for skulks. This fit into the game but not on marineside.
Bhop iteslf is ok in games like Quake3 or Unreal tournament but not in games like Counterstrike, Battlefield or NS2.
Im so excited to see something like this soon for ns2:
Yes please.
Would be a step in the right direction I think, because it seems to me the problem at the moment is that drifters have completely taken up the role of builder, as it's still faster, less risky, and allows you to keep all alien players on fighting duty in comparison to having someone go gorge to build stuff. So now you have the decreased pres cost for gorges, only to see it used to double the amount of suicide bilebomb rushing. ^^
Good _luck_ hitting that.