The comm position has always been both a critical strength and weakness in the FPS/RTS genre. I really haven't seen any mod/game do it in a way that makes it easy to learn and understand. The only method I think could work is a NS2:RTS mode; a basic 1v1 with bots. Allows you to learn the game, explore strategies, and get comfortable with the comm interface.
At the very least I would want an actual commander training mode... and explore mode isn't really it.
It needs to start you off with regular resources, build things in normal time, not instantly, etc etc. It would help you get a handle the timing and flow of the game.
cheats 1 and autobuild almost gets you here, but it builds and researches things instantly.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
@Kamamura
Art of war hmm.. I read a translation.
That guy was a genius.
@Ironhorse
I know the feeling, but its true.. we can best accept it.. The overal bulk of new players does not read manuals anymore and if uwe anticipates that in a sort of onscreen notes & tutorial we would do slightly better.
@ opening poster.
I expected the standard /sigh/ post, but well done. Clear opinion and experience, and well supported with arguements
I beleive I was your commander as I did have a few games with you over the free weekend. I feel that to be successfull commander you need a mic and you need to explain to everyone what is going on, I talk a fair bit while commanding, explaining my strat so everyone can work towards a common goal. if I cant drop you a med I tell you why, if you are requesting a phase gate in skylights then I explain why that is dumb and give you a waypoint towards sub-sector etc.
I found on the free-weekend the use of threat markers and waypoints worked best. You couldnt just exactly call "GOTO DOUBLE" and expect them to know where they are going.
In regards to experience/learning, I learnt by competitive scrimming, by that I mean I was thrown into commander position by default as they needed a comm....baptism of fire is the best way to go imho.
I currently have my own YT channel that is NS2 only, after the responses here perhaps I should create some commander/khammander how-tos?
You, sir, are awesome. I hope to run across you in the game sometime. I actually like to go to rookie friendly servers and command/give advice, just like you suggested. To me, it's one of the most rewarding experiences in the game
Had another game with Lavenders last night, I was Jinx as your alien khammander on DESCENT. Thanks for listening to commands! Actually the whole team did really well.
Like Lavenders i am also new to this game and can confirm most of his feedback. When i first commanded aliens my team complained that we didn't had a second hive. The only reason why i didn't build a second hive was that i didn't find places where i can put my cysts on the way to pipeline(i started at cargobay and the way to the left side and to nanogrid was successfully blocked by marines all the time). I think it would be nice if possible places where highlighted when you want to place buildings. Or the other way around. Places where you can't build. Also it annoyed me like hell that i had always upgrade icons around my buildings and it happened way too easy that i clicked them accidently. Especially when i wanted to select something close to those buildings. The next thing that annoyed me like hell, there was no button to abort the upgrades. I would prefer that those icons only appear when you select a building if at all. And pls add something to abort them or make it more obvious to find. And icons of already researched stuff partially blocked the view on stuff i am about to research.
Selecting in general was a mess. So, yes in that way SC2 is way easier to play. Also units usually do exactly what you commanded them and don't run confused around or do something else. And you always know what Unit is able to defeat what enemy. In NS2 this is a bit more realistic.
Ok back to topic. I wish/hope that selecting will be easier, those research icons disappear from my general unselected UI and building placing be more intuitive in future versions.
Like Lavenders i am also new to this game and can confirm most of his feedback. When i first commanded aliens my team complained that we didn't had a second hive. The only reason why i didn't build a second hive was that i didn't find places where i can put my cysts on the way to pipeline(i started at cargobay and the way to the left side and to nanogrid was successfully blocked by marines all the time). I think it would be nice if possible places where highlighted when you want to place buildings. Or the other way around. Places where you can't build. Also it annoyed me like hell that i had always upgrade icons around my buildings and it happened way too easy that i clicked them accidently. Especially when i wanted to select something close to those buildings. The next thing that annoyed me like hell, there was no button to abort the upgrades. I would prefer that those icons only appear when you select a building if at all. And pls add something to abort them or make it more obvious to find. And icons of already researched stuff partially blocked the view on stuff i am about to research.
Selecting in general was a mess. So, yes in that way SC2 is way easier to play. Also units usually do exactly what you commanded them and don't run confused around or do something else. And you always know what Unit is able to defeat what enemy. In NS2 this is a bit more realistic.
Ok back to topic. I wish/hope that selecting will be easier, those research icons disappear from my general unselected UI and building placing be more intuitive in future versions.
You don't need to cyst to an area to build a second hive, unless you are trying to put a shift down before you put down the hive for spawn eggs in case your team can't protect the hive while it's being built.
I don't have a problem with seeing possible places to put buildings myself.
You can disable the upgrade icons appearing in the menu options under "commander hints" and you can cancel an upgrade from happening by clicking on the building and hitting the cancel button.
The one thing I agree with you on is that sometimes selecting something can be a pain.. sometimes I have to click a couple times to get a unit selected.
My first impression was overwhelming. When I first loaded up the game, I saw an option to explore on my own server, but didn't really want to do that. So I just decided that after watching a few videos to get the idea of the game, I would jump right in. If there was some incentive to actually go through these tutorials, maybe I would...
As someone who just spent the past three days teaching people how to play all day, non stop , this part bugs me.
Your incentive should be to learn the game to avoid feeling overwhelmed??
I don't understand those who skip a button that says training.. Only to be utterly confused afterwards.
Also, There are in game tips, after you die so they do not block your screen and get you killed, and they are even in video, as well as during map loads.
Appreciate the well written feedback though, thanks!
In-game tips came about in games because 99% of players do not play a tutorial or training level. The fact Lavanders2 even watched a few videos before buying and playing the game already puts him head and shoulders above the average gamer who will play a game. I agree with lots of points, a game should be easy to learn. There needs to be a combat mode again where you can get to grips with things.
Comments
At the very least I would want an actual commander training mode... and explore mode isn't really it.
It needs to start you off with regular resources, build things in normal time, not instantly, etc etc. It would help you get a handle the timing and flow of the game.
cheats 1 and autobuild almost gets you here, but it builds and researches things instantly.
Art of war hmm.. I read a translation.
That guy was a genius.
@Ironhorse
I know the feeling, but its true.. we can best accept it.. The overal bulk of new players does not read manuals anymore and if uwe anticipates that in a sort of onscreen notes & tutorial we would do slightly better.
@ opening poster.
I expected the standard /sigh/ post, but well done. Clear opinion and experience, and well supported with arguements
I beleive I was your commander as I did have a few games with you over the free weekend. I feel that to be successfull commander you need a mic and you need to explain to everyone what is going on, I talk a fair bit while commanding, explaining my strat so everyone can work towards a common goal. if I cant drop you a med I tell you why, if you are requesting a phase gate in skylights then I explain why that is dumb and give you a waypoint towards sub-sector etc.
I found on the free-weekend the use of threat markers and waypoints worked best. You couldnt just exactly call "GOTO DOUBLE" and expect them to know where they are going.
In regards to experience/learning, I learnt by competitive scrimming, by that I mean I was thrown into commander position by default as they needed a comm....baptism of fire is the best way to go imho.
I currently have my own YT channel that is NS2 only, after the responses here perhaps I should create some commander/khammander how-tos?
http://www.youtube.com/user/billetofish
Selecting in general was a mess. So, yes in that way SC2 is way easier to play. Also units usually do exactly what you commanded them and don't run confused around or do something else. And you always know what Unit is able to defeat what enemy. In NS2 this is a bit more realistic.
Ok back to topic. I wish/hope that selecting will be easier, those research icons disappear from my general unselected UI and building placing be more intuitive in future versions.
You don't need to cyst to an area to build a second hive, unless you are trying to put a shift down before you put down the hive for spawn eggs in case your team can't protect the hive while it's being built.
I don't have a problem with seeing possible places to put buildings myself.
You can disable the upgrade icons appearing in the menu options under "commander hints" and you can cancel an upgrade from happening by clicking on the building and hitting the cancel button.
The one thing I agree with you on is that sometimes selecting something can be a pain.. sometimes I have to click a couple times to get a unit selected.
And i also agree with briatx that exploration mode is not very good as commander training mode for the same reasons.
In-game tips came about in games because 99% of players do not play a tutorial or training level. The fact Lavanders2 even watched a few videos before buying and playing the game already puts him head and shoulders above the average gamer who will play a game. I agree with lots of points, a game should be easy to learn. There needs to be a combat mode again where you can get to grips with things.