Some times as a gorge I need see buildings health on the map.
Would be great if it will look like in the screenshot.
Please put large images behind spoiler tags for our mobile users. Thanks! -Decoy
While this would be good, it does remove synergy from khamm and gorge.
Is this loss of synergy good, bad, or negligible?
Likewise for marines.
I'm inclined to say that it's a bad thing and that this type of communication should be promoted. Much like when marines are parasited, kham can see their HP, but should aliens be able to on the map?
I don't agree that it removes synergy at all. I think what would happen is; good comms will continue to supplement with the info whether it is on the map or not, and good comms will continue to give orders to the gorges.
When you play on the field in prem div @nachos, You can see all the players on your map when somebody engages - but you still call the position of the players in voice chat (I'm assuming).
This is no different in my eyes.
And if @Well 's proposal removes team synergy, then so does despawn bars imo. Despawn timings was something that could've been a purely team effort to keep track of - but I don't think that removed team synergy either. You still call it if there's a dropped shotgun somewhere, with or without despawn bars.
Understand one thing - not all playing 6x6. Public games start at 16 slots and more. And the public servers do not have the teamplay like in pro games. Everyone there playing his game. Sometimes happens silent games without speaking and chatting.
I just want to get the full autonomy from all players (including from the commander) to be as effective "Rambo".
@SantaClaws I think that good comms giving that info is part of a skill.
To be able to select a structure, read HP, and then make a decision if a gorge's time is worth it or not. I think that level of communication should be encouraged as part of teamwork.
Removing that necessity on the khammander to have that information from a top down view decreases the skill ceiling in my opinion (of an already low skill ceiling khamm).
I also believe that everyone being able to see the HP of a structure livetime on a map will aid in aliens being able to make quicker choices on whether to commit or trade a fight. I think that's a call the khamm should be more involved for the sake of game design and skill.
Penultimately, I don't want to see gorges (particularly in public) watching their map and looking at structures only. Most effective gorging is when you take choke points and help with fights. This change would be akin to seeing public players rushing fast PGs on tech points because "ohhh look shiny tech point." I also think it's evident that the community is not in tune with the most efficient meta's and reasoning behind bad decisions so we should be somewhat protecting them from encouraging this behaviour. On the flip side of the coin, I would whole heartedly promote communication over spoon feeding and rail-roading commanders into optimising their decisions.
Finally, this mechanic would seem to make sense on providing information on parasited marines, labelling their HP/Armor by a simple bar on any alien's map. While this is a slippery slope argument (and I'm aware of the logical fallacy), I'm concerned that this is ridiculously OP. I would hope that any such implementation would stop at just showing the HP of FRIENDLY STRUCTURES. Although I am against it.
I think field calls on lifeforms is a slightly different scenario which doesn't translate well into this issue. You call lifeforms in an engagement as you would call how defended an RT is with PvE. You call this so that your comm / other teammates can make better decisions with their time and actions. What you're also hoping for is accurate information on the remaining HP of any lifeforms that survived because this impacts decisions made by the team. Sometimes you lie to your teammates to boost their confidence in pushing a room, sometimes you make mistakes and call wrong, sometimes you're seeing if it's worth springing that trap on a retreating lifeform, or if you use that trap to pick res biters. Also sometimes you can't look at the map because the aliens have split into 3-1-1 and engage multiple targets at multiple times.
Making better decisions affecting time and actions because of this new feature I feel is over compensating on a skill that should be encouraged. I don't think this should be compromised because communication is more important for this particular aspect of the game. You're going to have to convince me that communicating and delegating the roles of gorges to heal structures as opposed to aiding lifeforms is unimportant for the khammander.
I also believe that it's a complete disgrace to compensate anymore lack of willingness to communicate in this game. It's heavily teamwork based and the RTS nature means you must make the right, important decisions. If you do not want to communicate then you should accept that you will need other players skilled enough to anticipate your own actions and synergise appropriately, or accept that you won't have the most successful experience in ns2. It's great talking to team-mates and trying to accomplish things together, why should we keep implementing more features to decrease the important of communication?
The despawn time limit on shotguns is not a globally available thing. It's only when in close proximity to the weapon so that you don't make a mistake in time/distance, which although it's a skill to count the time and be aware of if you'll make it or not, is not a skill I place much importance on.
To be able to select a structure, read HP, and then make a decision if a gorge's time is worth it or not. I think that level of communication should be encouraged as part of teamwork.
I used to play WC2 and a bit of Starcraft competitively, so the part with clicking to see the hp I'm very familiar with. But I don't agree this is important to the gameplay. I think you would have exactly as deep a gameplay, if not more deep, with a mechanic that showed you the hp without clicking on the structure.
The reason I say; if not more. Is when more players have the crucial information, it changes the dynamic of how they are going to respond. If you're always playing in the dark, your decision making is going to decrease in nuance.
I do agree that it lowers the skill ceiling, at least in the technical sense. This is a very powerful argument imo and I'm happy to concede that this is a potential problem at the very least.
As for the communication part - I maintain my skepticism that the importance of communication would in any way be diminished. It will of course change how we communicate, but we will be communicating.
Penultimately (that's a pretty sweet word), I don't want to see gorges (particularly in public) watching their map and looking at structures only. Most effective gorging is when you take choke points and help with fights.
Surely, pubbers are going to make wrong choices regardless. This is where the experienced field caller or commander comes in. This is where the importance of communication truly lies in my eyes.
Making better decisions affecting time and actions because of this new feature I feel is over compensating on a skill that should be encouraged. I don't think this should be compromised because communication is more important for this particular aspect of the game. You're going to have to convince me that communicating and delegating the roles of gorges to heal structures as opposed to aiding lifeforms is unimportant for the khammander.
Let us for arguments sake say, that it will make pubbers stay in base to heal rather than being useful in the field. Would that not precisely encourage communication? "Hey get out of base dirtbag!" "Go help the onos over in north tunnels pigface!".
I also believe that it's a complete disgrace to compensate anymore lack of willingness to communicate in this game. It's heavily teamwork based and the RTS nature means you must make the right, important decisions. If you do not want to communicate then you should accept that you will need other players skilled enough to anticipate your own actions and synergise appropriately, or accept that you won't have the most successful experience in ns2. It's great talking to team-mates and trying to accomplish things together, why should we keep implementing more features to decrease the important of communication?
I agree with all of this. We should encourage team communication, and I believe NS2 has done an outstanding job on that particular subject so far.
I'm not convinced however, that this mechanic would remove any encouragement or importance like you say.
To be able to select a structure, read HP, and then make a decision if a gorge's time is worth it or not. I think that level of communication should be encouraged as part of teamwork.
I used to play WC2 and a bit of Starcraft competitively, so the part with clicking to see the hp I'm very familiar with. But I don't agree this is important to the gameplay. I think you would have exactly as deep a gameplay, if not more deep, with a mechanic that showed you the hp without clicking on the structure.
Make it part of the comm UI then but leave it out of player UI.
Penultimately (that's a pretty sweet word), I don't want to see gorges (particularly in public) watching their map and looking at structures only. Most effective gorging is when you take choke points and help with fights.
Surely, pubbers are going to make wrong choices regardless. This is where the experienced field caller or commander comes in. This is where the importance of communication truly lies in my eyes.
I agree but I think you're adding a barrier to listening to the experienced players. I expect people will think "hmm this red bar is low so I should go heal it over what that guy said" which is going to frustrate experienced players and comms.
Making better decisions affecting time and actions because of this new feature I feel is over compensating on a skill that should be encouraged. I don't think this should be compromised because communication is more important for this particular aspect of the game. You're going to have to convince me that communicating and delegating the roles of gorges to heal structures as opposed to aiding lifeforms is unimportant for the khammander.
Let us for arguments sake say, that it will make pubbers stay in base to heal rather than being useful in the field. Would that not precisely encourage communication? "Hey get out of base dirtbag!" "Go help the onos over in north tunnels pigface!".
I also believe that it's a complete disgrace to compensate anymore lack of willingness to communicate in this game. It's heavily teamwork based and the RTS nature means you must make the right, important decisions. If you do not want to communicate then you should accept that you will need other players skilled enough to anticipate your own actions and synergise appropriately, or accept that you won't have the most successful experience in ns2. It's great talking to team-mates and trying to accomplish things together, why should we keep implementing more features to decrease the important of communication?
I agree with all of this. We should encourage team communication, and I believe NS2 has done an outstanding job on that particular subject so far.
I'm not convinced however, that this mechanic would remove any encouragement or importance like you say.
These posts are getting long as fuck.
I just don't think field players should have THAT kind of information which could be readily available to khamms.
WellJoin Date: 2006-10-04Member: 58054Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
Mendasp, could u set exit direction for gorge tunnel? Current exit mechanics does not suit me. I think gorge can set the exit direction by own the line of sight. Look at a hive when tunnel drop - tunnel exit look at a hive too.
What u think?
The way you're looking when you get out of a gorge tunnel is exactly the way you're looking at while in the tunnel. Open the minimap and see where you're looking and that's where you'll be facing when you come out...
WellJoin Date: 2006-10-04Member: 58054Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
This implementation does not take into account the fact that during the most rapid movement, especially when using bunny hopping, you will not have time to orient themselves with respect to the minimap. This great loss in time. Another thing, in my case, you're pretty sure that when you exit the tunnel, you are not rested against the wall.
P.S.: How possible 0.XX damage in game statistics (exp 1337.77 damage by user)?
All of them? There's different damage types that do 25% damage to armor and things like that, and when you get weapon upgrades, the weapons do 11% (lvl1), 12% (lvl2), 13% (lvl3) more damage, so that obviously has decimals... The damage numbers you get during the game just doesn't show them.
WellJoin Date: 2006-10-04Member: 58054Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
Assault_Rifle do 10 damage by bullet (0 dmg lvl).
I shot to skulk 1 bullet - my "player damage" should be 10, right?
Or you not considered damage to armor and deduct it from a total damage value? Very strange.
Technically I want to know how much bullets hit to my target, but, because weapons different, we use abstract value "damage'. And I always think - if I shot 10 bullets to my target I deal 100 damage.
You have accuracy to know how much you're hitting. Why would you try to infer it from the damage done? Do you only use the rifle all game without upgrades? No pistol? No shotgun? Then you have the GL which does different damage depending on how far away from the target it is... or the mines... etc.
Pistol does 25 light damage, which does half to armor, so shooting a skulk with armor will do 16.25 damage. Damage numbers will show 16. And when a player has, for example, 10.25 health left, if you shoot him twice with the rifle you'll get 10 damage for the first shot, and 0.25 for the second. So you don't do 20 damage, you do 10.25...
It's not a bug if that's what you're saying, it's how the game works.
- Added button to NS2+ options menu to reset values individually.
- Replaced Changelog button that noone ever noticed with "Reset all NS2+ settings" in the NS2+ options menu.
- Added console command to export NS2+ settings to a text file (plus_export). The file will be in %APPDATA%\Natural Selection 2\NS2Plus\ExportedSettings.txt
- Added server option to disable all connections to Hive. Disabling this will break the Force Even Teams vote, badges, player skill display and player skill reporting. It's an option purely just in case Hive is acting up. Servers can toggle it with "sv_plus hiveconnection true/false" in console or modifying NS2PlusServerConfig.json.
Perhaps it's just me who don't feel like counting to 10.
So would it be possible to get a 'clog counter' when placing clogs as gorge?
So you don't have to stop and reopen the build menu. In order to see how many clogs you have left.
- Added a structure counter (current/max) for the Gorge building "weapon" inside the energy circle.
- Added player and structure damage stats per-weapon to the end stats.
- Added a structure counter (current/max) for the Gorge building "weapon" inside the energy circle.
- Added player and structure damage stats per-weapon to the end stats.
Thanks.
Would you do the "life form indicator" dependent from player res? We discussed it.
And what about my idea - health structures on map?
Comments
While this would be good, it does remove synergy from khamm and gorge.
Is this loss of synergy good, bad, or negligible?
Likewise for marines.
I'm inclined to say that it's a bad thing and that this type of communication should be promoted. Much like when marines are parasited, kham can see their HP, but should aliens be able to on the map?
When you play on the field in prem div @nachos, You can see all the players on your map when somebody engages - but you still call the position of the players in voice chat (I'm assuming).
This is no different in my eyes.
And if @Well 's proposal removes team synergy, then so does despawn bars imo. Despawn timings was something that could've been a purely team effort to keep track of - but I don't think that removed team synergy either. You still call it if there's a dropped shotgun somewhere, with or without despawn bars.
I just want to get the full autonomy from all players (including from the commander) to be as effective "Rambo".
Client was suddenly crashing upon tab/scoreboard. Log.txt showed the following last line:
[179.754] Worker 01 : Error: Failed to read bitmap 'ui/badges/ns2plus_dev_20.dds'
I deleted NS2+ from my client's workshop directory and reconnected to the server (thus redownloading NS2+).
Scoreboard no longer causes crash. Client is stable. No further action needed/requested at the moment.
To be able to select a structure, read HP, and then make a decision if a gorge's time is worth it or not. I think that level of communication should be encouraged as part of teamwork.
Removing that necessity on the khammander to have that information from a top down view decreases the skill ceiling in my opinion (of an already low skill ceiling khamm).
I also believe that everyone being able to see the HP of a structure livetime on a map will aid in aliens being able to make quicker choices on whether to commit or trade a fight. I think that's a call the khamm should be more involved for the sake of game design and skill.
Penultimately, I don't want to see gorges (particularly in public) watching their map and looking at structures only. Most effective gorging is when you take choke points and help with fights. This change would be akin to seeing public players rushing fast PGs on tech points because "ohhh look shiny tech point." I also think it's evident that the community is not in tune with the most efficient meta's and reasoning behind bad decisions so we should be somewhat protecting them from encouraging this behaviour. On the flip side of the coin, I would whole heartedly promote communication over spoon feeding and rail-roading commanders into optimising their decisions.
Finally, this mechanic would seem to make sense on providing information on parasited marines, labelling their HP/Armor by a simple bar on any alien's map. While this is a slippery slope argument (and I'm aware of the logical fallacy), I'm concerned that this is ridiculously OP. I would hope that any such implementation would stop at just showing the HP of FRIENDLY STRUCTURES. Although I am against it.
I think field calls on lifeforms is a slightly different scenario which doesn't translate well into this issue. You call lifeforms in an engagement as you would call how defended an RT is with PvE. You call this so that your comm / other teammates can make better decisions with their time and actions. What you're also hoping for is accurate information on the remaining HP of any lifeforms that survived because this impacts decisions made by the team. Sometimes you lie to your teammates to boost their confidence in pushing a room, sometimes you make mistakes and call wrong, sometimes you're seeing if it's worth springing that trap on a retreating lifeform, or if you use that trap to pick res biters. Also sometimes you can't look at the map because the aliens have split into 3-1-1 and engage multiple targets at multiple times.
Making better decisions affecting time and actions because of this new feature I feel is over compensating on a skill that should be encouraged. I don't think this should be compromised because communication is more important for this particular aspect of the game. You're going to have to convince me that communicating and delegating the roles of gorges to heal structures as opposed to aiding lifeforms is unimportant for the khammander.
I also believe that it's a complete disgrace to compensate anymore lack of willingness to communicate in this game. It's heavily teamwork based and the RTS nature means you must make the right, important decisions. If you do not want to communicate then you should accept that you will need other players skilled enough to anticipate your own actions and synergise appropriately, or accept that you won't have the most successful experience in ns2. It's great talking to team-mates and trying to accomplish things together, why should we keep implementing more features to decrease the important of communication?
The despawn time limit on shotguns is not a globally available thing. It's only when in close proximity to the weapon so that you don't make a mistake in time/distance, which although it's a skill to count the time and be aware of if you'll make it or not, is not a skill I place much importance on.
The reason I say; if not more. Is when more players have the crucial information, it changes the dynamic of how they are going to respond. If you're always playing in the dark, your decision making is going to decrease in nuance.
I do agree that it lowers the skill ceiling, at least in the technical sense. This is a very powerful argument imo and I'm happy to concede that this is a potential problem at the very least.
As for the communication part - I maintain my skepticism that the importance of communication would in any way be diminished. It will of course change how we communicate, but we will be communicating.
Surely, pubbers are going to make wrong choices regardless. This is where the experienced field caller or commander comes in. This is where the importance of communication truly lies in my eyes.
Let us for arguments sake say, that it will make pubbers stay in base to heal rather than being useful in the field. Would that not precisely encourage communication? "Hey get out of base dirtbag!" "Go help the onos over in north tunnels pigface!".
I agree with all of this. We should encourage team communication, and I believe NS2 has done an outstanding job on that particular subject so far.
I'm not convinced however, that this mechanic would remove any encouragement or importance like you say.
These posts are getting long as fuck.
Make it part of the comm UI then but leave it out of player UI.
I agree but I think you're adding a barrier to listening to the experienced players. I expect people will think "hmm this red bar is low so I should go heal it over what that guy said" which is going to frustrate experienced players and comms.
See barrier to listening comment above.
I just don't think field players should have THAT kind of information which could be readily available to khamms.
What u think?
P.S.: How possible 0.XX damage in game statistics (exp 1337.77 damage by user)?
Who needs decimals when it comes to damage numbers? How about removing them?
Just ignore
I don't think he meant damage numbers... he said stats.
I shot to skulk 1 bullet - my "player damage" should be 10, right?
Or you not considered damage to armor and deduct it from a total damage value? Very strange.
Technically I want to know how much bullets hit to my target, but, because weapons different, we use abstract value "damage'. And I always think - if I shot 10 bullets to my target I deal 100 damage.
Pistol does 25 light damage, which does half to armor, so shooting a skulk with armor will do 16.25 damage. Damage numbers will show 16. And when a player has, for example, 10.25 health left, if you shoot him twice with the rifle you'll get 10 damage for the first shot, and 0.25 for the second. So you don't do 20 damage, you do 10.25...
It's not a bug if that's what you're saying, it's how the game works.
- Replaced Changelog button that noone ever noticed with "Reset all NS2+ settings" in the NS2+ options menu.
- Added console command to export NS2+ settings to a text file (plus_export). The file will be in %APPDATA%\Natural Selection 2\NS2Plus\ExportedSettings.txt
- Added server option to disable all connections to Hive. Disabling this will break the Force Even Teams vote, badges, player skill display and player skill reporting. It's an option purely just in case Hive is acting up. Servers can toggle it with "sv_plus hiveconnection true/false" in console or modifying NS2PlusServerConfig.json.
So would it be possible to get a 'clog counter' when placing clogs as gorge?
So you don't have to stop and reopen the build menu. In order to see how many clogs you have left.
- Added player and structure damage stats per-weapon to the end stats.
Would you do the "life form indicator" dependent from player res? We discussed it.
And what about my idea - health structures on map?
However nice this would be. I personally think it would ruin some of the gameplay. And would personally dislike it.
Rising? Is that you?
- Added Tech Log and RT Graph to end game stats.