This is going to be a bigger problem on servers with very high numbers of players. It's a lot easier for marines to bring the full firepower of their team to bear than the aliens simply because they're all ranged, and if you put them all in the same room with L3 weapons they're going to drop the first onos that comes through the door awfully quickly. In that case it doesn't matter all that much how coordinated the aliens push in simply because they'll likely lose at least a player or two if not more in the first few seconds of the engagement as they pass through the initial choke points.
The best way to avoid these kinds of situations is to not play on servers higher than 9v9. You can get some holdout situations there, but they should seem perfectly reasonable to crack. At 6v6 to 8v8 this is almost a non-issue when aliens are playing correctly. Quite frankly I don't think the OP's team was playing that well. =/
Perhaps, but it can be argued just as easily that larger teams for Aliens lets them use even greater amounts of spore. On 16 x16, can you imagine the damage 8 Lerks can do with spore? That's 160 DPS. You can kiss your welder marine good bye. To stop that, you need a com who's on it with the EMP. Even flamethrowers can't start up fast enough to dissipate that much spore before it kills them. And losing a player in the push isn't a big deal if you have the rest of the map. Owning 8+ RTs gives a heck of a lot of res fast. That's 10 Res a minute. Between enzyme, illusions and lots of additional babbler army, IMO it seems pretty fair.
Ending the game is just as much a part of the game as early-game, mid-game, and late-game. It's the part we rarely ever see because people know it's coming and generally don't want to bother "drawing it out." So they either concede, F4, recycle, etc.
Since I'm so narrow minded, I'm going to blame the Concede option and say that since the ease of use for the concede function, the ability to end games among the vast majority of players is virtually non-existent. In reality, it's probably just because people don't like playing games they know they'll lose, as has been said by quite a few people around the forum.
Its for this reason that situations like this arise. Alien teams are so used to crushing a marine's forward bases and then having them concede, they don't have the foggiest idea how to break a turtle.
In my experience, most Alien teams in the end game stage run in in a nice single file line, always from the same door (because of that nice little crag nest), then once they realize that those pesky guns actually hurt, they run away. Rinse and repeat. This can go on for quite a while. Onos after Onos goes down, the marines are having a grand ol time.
Regardless of whether it is a "problem" or not, you still need to know how to deal with it. Somehow you have to coordinate an attack and focus down the powernode. That's the easiest way to break a turtle. You can use hallucinations, whip spam, enzyme cloud, spores, stomp, umbra, bile bomb, heck, even xenocide or vortex (vortex the arms lab anyone?) to get this done. The biggest thing is coordination.
There's tons of ways for aliens to break a turtle, the problem isn't that, it's lack of coordination.
Prior to concede being implemented, virtually every single game the marines lost after the 15 minute mark ended in a stalemate that could last anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes. The alien team needs to wait until half the team has onos, and then strike at the same time on the same target, and the follow through once the power node actually dies in order to wipe the marines out. If anyone goes early or doesn't go with the team, the win gets delayed even further.
So it's certainly not a problem of people forgetting how to end games because of concede, things were worse before concede.
The problem is coordination like you say, only that it takes far, FAR more coordination than it should. Fact is ending the game takes more coordination than winning the game, which is as bassackwards as it comes.
You sure? I remember playing as marines and two lerks flew in sporing. Basically everyone not next to an armory died in 3 seconds.
The FUNNIEST thing I've ever seen was on old Mineshaft when you could still climb up the ladder in Ops. We were basically boned so 4 marines all climbed up. Two lerks spored us up there and it was a near instant kill. 1 spore should have taken 5 seconds to take us all down. He didn't bite any of us either. Flew in. spored. flew out. Two lerks dropped 4 marines before any of us had time to shoot them. That looks like stacking to me as 1 spore takes time to kill people.
Spore doesn't stack from the same lerk, but each spore I believe does its own damage. Hence why two 2 spores from 2 different lerks results in 40 DPS. Hence why 5 lerks should kill marines in 1 second if they are all sporing the same area. I know I tend to die a lot faster when there are two Lerks sporing then just 1. 1 spore doesn't really change my behavior as 5 seconds is a lot of time, but two has me running away.
I'm almost 100% positive. But they have to be from different Lerks. Spore from the same Lerk doesn't stack, that's I'm absolutely sure of. But I've seen and died extremely quickly from multiple Lerks sporing the same area. Not being bit and dying in less than 3 seconds pretty much rules out IMO that spores from different lerks don't stack.
Hmm, maybe I just don't have a lot of experience dealing with four lerks at once. You could be right
I could be wrong, but my experience tells me that each Lerk's spores are unaffected by other Lerks. The most Lerks I've seen was 3 sporing at once. Luckily I was on Aliens. Everyone who wasn't in an Exo basically dropped. Taking the power down on that base was a cake walk after that. They may have changed in a recent build, but I do remember that one camping out in the platform on Operations as being hysterical. 2 lerks with spore killed 4 marines so fast that everyone went to text chat and spammed "LOL."
This made me giggle. It sounds like this was mostly due to poor prioritising from the alien team.
I'd like to see that in this case you would do. Almost all that we tried to attack, ended in failure.
Killing the comm chair ends the game (and you win!).
Srsly though, its been a long time since Ive seen a marine turtle that aliens couldnt kill. But I rarely play on more than 20 player servers.
Srsly though, its been a long time since Ive seen a marine turtle that aliens couldnt kill. But I rarely play on more than 20 player servers.
Wouldn't a combination of illusion, gorges and bombard whip rush do the trick on any non-arc defended Marine base? Not to mention just rushing drifters as distractions.
Its funny all the advice about how aliens dont know how to end the game and that they should hit teh power node.
Smart aliens hit the CC as when that goes down it cant be rebuilt.
I find it similarly funny that people dont mind aliens getting more and more gimped as their hive numbers drop...but marines stay as buffed on 1 CC as they do 4.
Its funny all the advice about how aliens dont know how to end the game and that they should hit teh power node.
Smart aliens hit the CC as when that goes down it cant be rebuilt.
I find it similarly funny that people dont mind aliens getting more and more gimped as their hive numbers drop...but marines stay as buffed on 1 CC as they do 4.
That's because on most map locations, the powernode is often easier to hit (closer to the room entrance) than the cc. It also has less armor and HP, so it goes down faster than a cc as well. Funny isn't it?
Its funny all the advice about how aliens dont know how to end the game and that they should hit teh power node.
Smart aliens hit the CC as when that goes down it cant be rebuilt.
I find it similarly funny that people dont mind aliens getting more and more gimped as their hive numbers drop...but marines stay as buffed on 1 CC as they do 4.
That's because on most map locations, the powernode is often easier to hit (closer to the room entrance) than the cc. It also has less armor and HP, so it goes down faster than a cc as well. Funny isn't it?
And unlike the CC it can be repaired. The difference between to two is very little and if your going to throw away an Onos to take out the power your betting targeting the CC.
I have seen many successful powernode rush fail because atleast 1 marine survived and was able to rebuild the power.
IF you try to take down the power then kill all the marines your pushing your luck.
By simply killing the CC those marines still alive simply lose.
You simply cant have marines able to achieve same level of damage on 1 tech point as they would if they held 3.
Part of the reason we saw the concede option brought in was to formalise a surrender process (instead of 1 person recycling (but also accessible to aliens)).
Which was in part an acknowledgement that aliens lacked game ending capabilities compared to marines if situation was reversed.
I among others here am of the opinion that weapons and armour upgrades should be limited by the number of tech points you hold.
So your solution is to increase the slippery slope for marines to make it equally not-fun fighting with 1 tech point like it is for aliens. So we now see even more concedes when the 2nd CC goes down.
There was a big problem in marine turtling in beta. Right now it is negligible. 3 Onos with 1 Lerk and 1 or 2 Gorges is more than enough to get every base down if you simply focus on the power node or CC. The case described from the OP sketches a fail in prioritizing the targets.
There are way more difficult positions than flight control if we talk about turtling and all can be broken with talking to your fellow aliens and set up an attack with the right mix and at the same time.
Heck in your described case, even 4 - 5 Oni alone would have broken the Power Node (and with 8 RTs it doesn't take long to get those eggs placed). Just rush at the power node. The marines can kill 1 onos while engaging. Maybe another one while attacking the node. But than thats it. The rest of the aliens can takeout the marines without problem now. It's really that easy. The only thing you need is communication. But sadly this is the last thing most alien-players think about.
Its funny all the advice about how aliens dont know how to end the game and that they should hit teh power node.
Smart aliens hit the CC as when that goes down it cant be rebuilt.
I find it similarly funny that people dont mind aliens getting more and more gimped as their hive numbers drop...but marines stay as buffed on 1 CC as they do 4.
That's because on most map locations, the powernode is often easier to hit (closer to the room entrance) than the cc. It also has less armor and HP, so it goes down faster than a cc as well. Funny isn't it?
And unlike the CC it can be repaired. The difference between to two is very little and if your going to throw away an Onos to take out the power your betting targeting the CC.
I have seen many successful powernode rush fail because atleast 1 marine survived and was able to rebuild the power.
IF you try to take down the power then kill all the marines your pushing your luck.
By simply killing the CC those marines still alive simply lose.
You simply cant have marines able to achieve same level of damage on 1 tech point as they would if they held 3.
Part of the reason we saw the concede option brought in was to formalise a surrender process (instead of 1 person recycling (but also accessible to aliens)).
Which was in part an acknowledgement that aliens lacked game ending capabilities compared to marines if situation was reversed.
I agree that aliens are pretty gimped on one hive in comparison to marines. And personally I'd like to see what happens if the amount of cc's is linked to a/w upgrades as well.
I just disagree that destroying the cc is THE best way to end a turtle. It can be, sometimes, but most of the time killing the power is a lot easier. Less distance to cover, less HP to chew down. And the unupgraded marines to clean up after shouldn't be a problem. I can't remember the last time a turtle didn't end after the power got cut. I don't play that much on servers larger than 9vs9 though. Things might be different there.
The only problem with marine turtling is when you're a marine, the aliens won't finish it, and your team won't concede.
I say the problem is the boring, stale gameplay that it brings. NS1 was plagued by it. NS2 isn't much different (no RfK in NS2, but on the other hand there's now armor heal at Hump Station).
Ending the game against an Alien team is mostly okay. Sure, it's not much fun being mowed down as a Skulk, but it will be over quickly and the Aliens have options; they can strike out and try to shut the power off at Marine main to at least force a Beacon and buy some time.
Finishing turtling Marines is always a nuisance. It's dragged out, laggy for most people, cramped, boring for both sides, spammy, pointless... So we have this text-based workaround that allows the players to skip that part of the game (concede). Good solution? Nah...
Usually, when a turtle survive too long it is mainly because the alien team don't take a breath to coordinate an attack.
When coordinated whith a mix of aliens forms and mix objectives, there is too much to do for the marines.
Usually, when a turtle survive too long it is mainly because the alien team don't take a breath to coordinate an attack.
When coordinated whith a mix of aliens forms and mix objectives, there is too much to do for the marines.
Agreed. 2-3 Onos, a Bile Bombing Gorge, an Umbra Lerk, and an enzyme cloud is all you need to break any turtle.
However, I do wish more khamms took a more active role in breaking turtles. Obviously building crag nests and shooting enzyme is helpful but a lot of khamms fail to realize that they can just cyst into the marine base. Even if the marines kill the structures, that just means they are using their time and ammo on them instead of on your players. If you just cyst into their base and surround the comm chair with whips they'll be able to do constant damage to it. I guess if the marines have sentries it will kill your cysts but other than that this can help break a turtle. Either the marines focus on the whips and let the Onos kill the power or they focus on the Onos and let the whips kill the comm chair.
Also, hallucinations can actually be really useful. Sending in 2-3 fake Onos along with your real ones will stop the marines from focusing all of their attention on your players
Bottom line: third hive tech abilities are shit. Vortex and Xenocide need a buff. Umbra can be useful but that used to be a second hive ability in NS1.
The only reason to get a third hive these days is so can you can spawn more onos eggs and get silence/camo (which doesn't help you much in a siege situation anyways. Makes me miss Primal Scream (lerk) and Acid Rocket (fade) from NS1.
And on these maps with 5 techpoints? How about a super strong ability for getting a 4th hive? Maybe something the alien comm could use/control since it gets super boring just building healing stations outside the marine base.
Bottom line: third hive tech abilities are shit. Vortex and Xenocide need a buff. Umbra can be useful but that used to be a second hive ability in NS1.
The only reason to get a third hive these days is so can you can spawn more onos eggs and get silence/camo (which doesn't help you much in a siege situation anyways. Makes me miss Primal Scream (lerk) and Acid Rocket (fade) from NS1.
And on these maps with 5 techpoints? How about a super strong ability for getting a 4th hive? Maybe something the alien comm could use/control since it gets super boring just building healing stations outside the marine base.
You don't need a super ability to break turtles, that much has been said above. If all your doing as a Khamm is creating forward healing bases to break a turtle then i'm not suprised you get bored. It's your job (not exclusively) to get your team to coordinate an attack together. support them with drifters...send in some hallucinations or drop yourself an egg and help the push. noone is going to miss a comm when you own the whole map and the marines are locked into 1 base.
Vortex gets a lot of hate as a third hive ability, but personally i've seen it used effectively on multiple occasions. Marines sat on 2 bases, you on 3 hives? try vortex'ing the observatory when they try and beacon. Got an exo sat in base on 1TP cutting down your team as they come in? Vortex it so they can close the distance. Vortex + communcation = awesome.
Umbra feels like it was designed for breaking turtles too. an onos in an umbra cloud is stupidly difficult to kill. Xenocide on the other hand is next to useless. If you even manage to kill something, it'll be back in the fight before you've crawled out of your egg...far better to leap past the marines, making them face away from the frontlines just as your team rolls in.
One of my most memorable moments was drawing the fire of a dual exo sat in the dome staring down the corridor towards cargo. I came through the vents, told the onos sat in cargo that I was about to draw the fire... I leaped past the exo causing him to spin round to target me and the onos came flying down the corridor and wiped it out
...If aliens could high five...
End game, skulks are weak, but are great distractions.
I think it would be interesting to see how much effect forcing lv3 (and only lv3) upgrades to require a second chair. You can still push effectively with lv2 and thus still have a chance at taking a second point. That would indeed be interesting.
As far as going for the Power vs Going for the Chair. Assuming the rines are lv3 Armor and Weapons, you're gonna have a hard time keeping your onos nerve from failing as three of four drop one after another. It is true that you'll probably take out the CC and win, but if and only if you can focus all your firepower on it and fast.
Whereas attacking the power can be accomplished with one gorge and one onos, while the other two run around keeping the rines busy. Once that power is down. All that armor and weapons goes down the drain, and your team can mop up the rest no problem. If you have a fade, that's 2 hits per marine with the marine's almost incapable of taking him down. Toss in an onos or two, even with lower health, and that's game. Again, the biggest enemy after power dies is the nerve of the players. If they're wussies and don't want to "lose my lifeform" then yeah, the marines will repair power and the seige continues. But I still prefer taking out the power, then the chair.
Often (because of their costs) you can trade not getting a 2nd chair earlier for lvl 3 ups, and especially due to their costs, losing your 2nd chair after researching them is a LOT of res that just became useless, without them there's a good chance you won't take it back.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
edited April 2013
Like many said.. yes rushing the power can be hard, but you should be rushing the power.
Hit something big like the CC. If you have them res starved, throw a few skulks and gorges at the armslab.
in random order:
* umbra
* illusions
* cysts
* cyst rupture
* cyst > myst > place anything > cyst & myst more.
* echo in 'build stuff'.
* send in drifter armies to soak bullets, spam enzyme and be a anoyance.
* not all onos. But onos + lerk + gorges. Fill up with skulk and fade.
* get out the hive and grab another onos egg if you truly need another player.
* rush a lowhealth thing like a obs. Anything they rebuild lowers there res, anything they can not rebuild weakens them.
* let some marines think they can sneak out so less defend. Crush em somewhere midmap.
* also echoing in a fully upgraded shade to ink in there base is fun!
* Or echo some whips.. id go for the shade. XD
* work together & coordinate.
Hey guys, its only a problem because the vast majority of players can't deal with it.
Hey nice job Einstein, that's called an imbalance.
Being stupid/bad does not make something unbalanced.
It does when the only thing you need do to be clever/good is be on the other team.
I've seen the same players who are apparently bumbling and incompetent because they can't take out turtling marines, be just as impossible to remove when they are the turtling marines. What's this? Strength is dependant on team, not the player? That doesn't sound like an imbalance to me.
Comments
Perhaps, but it can be argued just as easily that larger teams for Aliens lets them use even greater amounts of spore. On 16 x16, can you imagine the damage 8 Lerks can do with spore? That's 160 DPS. You can kiss your welder marine good bye. To stop that, you need a com who's on it with the EMP. Even flamethrowers can't start up fast enough to dissipate that much spore before it kills them. And losing a player in the push isn't a big deal if you have the rest of the map. Owning 8+ RTs gives a heck of a lot of res fast. That's 10 Res a minute. Between enzyme, illusions and lots of additional babbler army, IMO it seems pretty fair.
Prior to concede being implemented, virtually every single game the marines lost after the 15 minute mark ended in a stalemate that could last anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes. The alien team needs to wait until half the team has onos, and then strike at the same time on the same target, and the follow through once the power node actually dies in order to wipe the marines out. If anyone goes early or doesn't go with the team, the win gets delayed even further.
So it's certainly not a problem of people forgetting how to end games because of concede, things were worse before concede.
The problem is coordination like you say, only that it takes far, FAR more coordination than it should. Fact is ending the game takes more coordination than winning the game, which is as bassackwards as it comes.
You sure? I remember playing as marines and two lerks flew in sporing. Basically everyone not next to an armory died in 3 seconds.
The FUNNIEST thing I've ever seen was on old Mineshaft when you could still climb up the ladder in Ops. We were basically boned so 4 marines all climbed up. Two lerks spored us up there and it was a near instant kill. 1 spore should have taken 5 seconds to take us all down. He didn't bite any of us either. Flew in. spored. flew out. Two lerks dropped 4 marines before any of us had time to shoot them. That looks like stacking to me as 1 spore takes time to kill people.
Spore doesn't stack from the same lerk, but each spore I believe does its own damage. Hence why two 2 spores from 2 different lerks results in 40 DPS. Hence why 5 lerks should kill marines in 1 second if they are all sporing the same area. I know I tend to die a lot faster when there are two Lerks sporing then just 1. 1 spore doesn't really change my behavior as 5 seconds is a lot of time, but two has me running away.
I'm almost 100% positive. But they have to be from different Lerks. Spore from the same Lerk doesn't stack, that's I'm absolutely sure of. But I've seen and died extremely quickly from multiple Lerks sporing the same area. Not being bit and dying in less than 3 seconds pretty much rules out IMO that spores from different lerks don't stack.
I could be wrong, but my experience tells me that each Lerk's spores are unaffected by other Lerks. The most Lerks I've seen was 3 sporing at once. Luckily I was on Aliens. Everyone who wasn't in an Exo basically dropped. Taking the power down on that base was a cake walk after that. They may have changed in a recent build, but I do remember that one camping out in the platform on Operations as being hysterical. 2 lerks with spore killed 4 marines so fast that everyone went to text chat and spammed "LOL."
THOUSANDS OF ONOSES!!!!
Killing the comm chair ends the game (and you win!).
Srsly though, its been a long time since Ive seen a marine turtle that aliens couldnt kill. But I rarely play on more than 20 player servers.
Now thats a whoopin.
Wouldn't a combination of illusion, gorges and bombard whip rush do the trick on any non-arc defended Marine base? Not to mention just rushing drifters as distractions.
Smart aliens hit the CC as when that goes down it cant be rebuilt.
I find it similarly funny that people dont mind aliens getting more and more gimped as their hive numbers drop...but marines stay as buffed on 1 CC as they do 4.
That's because on most map locations, the powernode is often easier to hit (closer to the room entrance) than the cc. It also has less armor and HP, so it goes down faster than a cc as well. Funny isn't it?
I have seen many successful powernode rush fail because atleast 1 marine survived and was able to rebuild the power.
IF you try to take down the power then kill all the marines your pushing your luck.
By simply killing the CC those marines still alive simply lose.
You simply cant have marines able to achieve same level of damage on 1 tech point as they would if they held 3.
Part of the reason we saw the concede option brought in was to formalise a surrender process (instead of 1 person recycling (but also accessible to aliens)).
Which was in part an acknowledgement that aliens lacked game ending capabilities compared to marines if situation was reversed.
So your solution is to increase the slippery slope for marines to make it equally not-fun fighting with 1 tech point like it is for aliens. So we now see even more concedes when the 2nd CC goes down.
There was a big problem in marine turtling in beta. Right now it is negligible. 3 Onos with 1 Lerk and 1 or 2 Gorges is more than enough to get every base down if you simply focus on the power node or CC. The case described from the OP sketches a fail in prioritizing the targets.
There are way more difficult positions than flight control if we talk about turtling and all can be broken with talking to your fellow aliens and set up an attack with the right mix and at the same time.
Heck in your described case, even 4 - 5 Oni alone would have broken the Power Node (and with 8 RTs it doesn't take long to get those eggs placed). Just rush at the power node. The marines can kill 1 onos while engaging. Maybe another one while attacking the node. But than thats it. The rest of the aliens can takeout the marines without problem now. It's really that easy. The only thing you need is communication. But sadly this is the last thing most alien-players think about.
I agree that aliens are pretty gimped on one hive in comparison to marines. And personally I'd like to see what happens if the amount of cc's is linked to a/w upgrades as well.
I just disagree that destroying the cc is THE best way to end a turtle. It can be, sometimes, but most of the time killing the power is a lot easier. Less distance to cover, less HP to chew down. And the unupgraded marines to clean up after shouldn't be a problem. I can't remember the last time a turtle didn't end after the power got cut. I don't play that much on servers larger than 9vs9 though. Things might be different there.
Ending the game against an Alien team is mostly okay. Sure, it's not much fun being mowed down as a Skulk, but it will be over quickly and the Aliens have options; they can strike out and try to shut the power off at Marine main to at least force a Beacon and buy some time.
Finishing turtling Marines is always a nuisance. It's dragged out, laggy for most people, cramped, boring for both sides, spammy, pointless... So we have this text-based workaround that allows the players to skip that part of the game (concede). Good solution? Nah...
When coordinated whith a mix of aliens forms and mix objectives, there is too much to do for the marines.
Agreed. 2-3 Onos, a Bile Bombing Gorge, an Umbra Lerk, and an enzyme cloud is all you need to break any turtle.
However, I do wish more khamms took a more active role in breaking turtles. Obviously building crag nests and shooting enzyme is helpful but a lot of khamms fail to realize that they can just cyst into the marine base. Even if the marines kill the structures, that just means they are using their time and ammo on them instead of on your players. If you just cyst into their base and surround the comm chair with whips they'll be able to do constant damage to it. I guess if the marines have sentries it will kill your cysts but other than that this can help break a turtle. Either the marines focus on the whips and let the Onos kill the power or they focus on the Onos and let the whips kill the comm chair.
Also, hallucinations can actually be really useful. Sending in 2-3 fake Onos along with your real ones will stop the marines from focusing all of their attention on your players
The only reason to get a third hive these days is so can you can spawn more onos eggs and get silence/camo (which doesn't help you much in a siege situation anyways. Makes me miss Primal Scream (lerk) and Acid Rocket (fade) from NS1.
And on these maps with 5 techpoints? How about a super strong ability for getting a 4th hive? Maybe something the alien comm could use/control since it gets super boring just building healing stations outside the marine base.
You don't need a super ability to break turtles, that much has been said above. If all your doing as a Khamm is creating forward healing bases to break a turtle then i'm not suprised you get bored. It's your job (not exclusively) to get your team to coordinate an attack together. support them with drifters...send in some hallucinations or drop yourself an egg and help the push. noone is going to miss a comm when you own the whole map and the marines are locked into 1 base.
Vortex gets a lot of hate as a third hive ability, but personally i've seen it used effectively on multiple occasions. Marines sat on 2 bases, you on 3 hives? try vortex'ing the observatory when they try and beacon. Got an exo sat in base on 1TP cutting down your team as they come in? Vortex it so they can close the distance. Vortex + communcation = awesome.
Umbra feels like it was designed for breaking turtles too. an onos in an umbra cloud is stupidly difficult to kill. Xenocide on the other hand is next to useless. If you even manage to kill something, it'll be back in the fight before you've crawled out of your egg...far better to leap past the marines, making them face away from the frontlines just as your team rolls in.
One of my most memorable moments was drawing the fire of a dual exo sat in the dome staring down the corridor towards cargo. I came through the vents, told the onos sat in cargo that I was about to draw the fire... I leaped past the exo causing him to spin round to target me and the onos came flying down the corridor and wiped it out
...If aliens could high five...
End game, skulks are weak, but are great distractions.
As far as going for the Power vs Going for the Chair. Assuming the rines are lv3 Armor and Weapons, you're gonna have a hard time keeping your onos nerve from failing as three of four drop one after another. It is true that you'll probably take out the CC and win, but if and only if you can focus all your firepower on it and fast.
Whereas attacking the power can be accomplished with one gorge and one onos, while the other two run around keeping the rines busy. Once that power is down. All that armor and weapons goes down the drain, and your team can mop up the rest no problem. If you have a fade, that's 2 hits per marine with the marine's almost incapable of taking him down. Toss in an onos or two, even with lower health, and that's game. Again, the biggest enemy after power dies is the nerve of the players. If they're wussies and don't want to "lose my lifeform" then yeah, the marines will repair power and the seige continues. But I still prefer taking out the power, then the chair.
Hit something big like the CC. If you have them res starved, throw a few skulks and gorges at the armslab.
in random order:
* umbra
* illusions
* cysts
* cyst rupture
* cyst > myst > place anything > cyst & myst more.
* echo in 'build stuff'.
* send in drifter armies to soak bullets, spam enzyme and be a anoyance.
* not all onos. But onos + lerk + gorges. Fill up with skulk and fade.
* get out the hive and grab another onos egg if you truly need another player.
* rush a lowhealth thing like a obs. Anything they rebuild lowers there res, anything they can not rebuild weakens them.
* let some marines think they can sneak out so less defend. Crush em somewhere midmap.
* also echoing in a fully upgraded shade to ink in there base is fun!
* Or echo some whips.. id go for the shade. XD
* work together & coordinate.
Hey nice job Einstein, that's called an imbalance.
Being stupid/bad does not make something unbalanced.
It does when the only thing you need do to be clever/good is be on the other team.
I've seen the same players who are apparently bumbling and incompetent because they can't take out turtling marines, be just as impossible to remove when they are the turtling marines. What's this? Strength is dependant on team, not the player? That doesn't sound like an imbalance to me.