It doesn't take much intelligence to sit in spawn and shoot the enemjy...
Now he's getting it.
it's like saying marine vs skulk is imbalanced, because they're both new and ground skulks die for free. when both teams know what they're doing, there is.no last tech point problem.
Often (because of their costs) you can trade not getting a 2nd chair earlier for lvl 3 ups, and especially due to their costs, losing your 2nd chair after researching them is a LOT of res that just became useless, without them there's a good chance you won't take it back.
That's true, but then the same could be said about Bile bomb, Leap, Blink, and Spores. For aliens 2nd hive. Or even Stomp, umbra, and maybe vortex and xeno. I understand the reasoning behind having lv3 go away. Then for the cost of 15 res you could get the 80 res of upgrades back. But there's no point in theorycrafting this, it needs to be tested to see its impact.
Often (because of their costs) you can trade not getting a 2nd chair earlier for lvl 3 ups, and especially due to their costs, losing your 2nd chair after researching them is a LOT of res that just became useless, without them there's a good chance you won't take it back.
That's true, but then the same could be said about Bile bomb, Leap, Blink, and Spores. For aliens 2nd hive. Or even Stomp, umbra, and maybe vortex and xeno. I understand the reasoning behind having lv3 go away. Then for the cost of 15 res you could get the 80 res of upgrades back. But there's no point in theorycrafting this, it needs to be tested to see its impact.
there may be a problem end game... say it's a game of 14 and the last stand marines have 3 dualies...
that might pose a problem. but lvl 3 upgrades reverting to lvl 2... is low impact for one, and fixing a nonexistent problem for the other. dropping to 00 would make it a massecre, but at that point, you're just speeding up the inevitable. hell, with the op, i think they coulda finished it by just throwing endless gorges at them... in waves of course. get an onos to draw fire, and everybody else just start biling everything in sight.
I among others here am of the opinion that weapons and armour upgrades should be limited by the number of tech points you hold.
So your solution is to increase the slippery slope for marines to make it equally not-fun fighting with 1 tech point like it is for aliens. So we now see even more concedes when the 2nd CC goes down.
There was a big problem in marine turtling in beta. Right now it is negligible. 3 Onos with 1 Lerk and 1 or 2 Gorges is more than enough to get every base down if you simply focus on the power node or CC. The case described from the OP sketches a fail in prioritizing the targets.
There are way more difficult positions than flight control if we talk about turtling and all can be broken with talking to your fellow aliens and set up an attack with the right mix and at the same time.
Heck in your described case, even 4 - 5 Oni alone would have broken the Power Node (and with 8 RTs it doesn't take long to get those eggs placed). Just rush at the power node. The marines can kill 1 onos while engaging. Maybe another one while attacking the node. But than thats it. The rest of the aliens can takeout the marines without problem now. It's really that easy. The only thing you need is communication. But sadly this is the last thing most alien-players think about.
Sorry but marines hardly have a slippery slope, oh so they cant get Exo's or JP's on 1 CC.
Apart from that they have every other upgrade available, full weaponry from the armoury, all weapons and armour upgrades etc.
Aliens have the slippery slope, losing upgrades and attacks as hives go down.
If marines had a similarly slippery slope we would never have seen base recycling occur as aliens would be able to easily finish them off.
The bigger pop servers (ie 12v12 or 16v16) makes these turtles a lot harder to take down than they should be.
Having 10+ ppl shooting even just LMG's with w3 kills onos very quickly, throw in a sentry battery, maybe replace some LMG's with GL's or FT and this picture starts getting even tougher.
It should not be a challenge to end a game that is already lost, that it is illustrates an issue with game balance.
The games over bar the last parade....which should not take over 5 minutes to complete.
If we want to have fewer games ending by concede votes then we need to find a way to allow aliens to actually finish things without requiring stupid levels of co-ordination (after all a marine comm can end a game on his own with arcs).
@ neoken, I dont believe hitting the CC is in itself a way of breaking the turtle (as they are often in worse places to get to than power nodes) but that by destroying it the game ends...with a node you have to kill the surviving marines/macs to ensure that node cant be repaired.
It doesn't take much intelligence to sit in spawn and shoot the enemjy...
Now he's getting it.
it's like saying marine vs skulk is imbalanced, because they're both new and ground skulks die for free. when both teams know what they're doing, there is.no last tech point problem.
You're going to need to explain this one to me.
As for the last part, I disagree. Give Nexzil level 3 everything and 8 players, with 50 spending res and 1 minute before the onslaught, and I guarantee Archea attacking wouldn't dislodge them within 10 minutes.
Starting to change game mechanics to compensate for the turtling problem is a wrong way to approach it, in my opinion. Any game mechanic changes made might and will have a great significance on the gameplay itself, i.e. marine upgrades being tied to tech points changing the priorities in map control for both sides.
Find a way to end a turtle with a feature that doesn't change anything outside of the turtling situation, and I'm game. Until then, I'm just going to stick with teamwork as aliens and conceding as marines.
Starting to change game mechanics to compensate for the turtling problem is a wrong way to approach it, in my opinion. Any game mechanic changes made might and will have a great significance on the gameplay itself, i.e. marine upgrades being tied to tech points changing the priorities in map control for both sides.
Find a way to end a turtle with a feature that doesn't change anything outside of the turtling situation, and I'm game. Until then, I'm just going to stick with teamwork as aliens and conceding as marines.
I can agree with that. Which pretty much brings us back to the 3rd hive abilities needing a little love.
It doesn't take much intelligence to sit in spawn and shoot the enemjy...
Now he's getting it.
it's like saying marine vs skulk is imbalanced, because they're both new and ground skulks die for free. when both teams know what they're doing, there is.no last tech point problem.
You're going to need to explain this one to me.
As for the last part, I disagree. Give Nexzil level 3 everything and 8 players, with 50 spending res and 1 minute before the onslaught, and I guarantee Archea attacking wouldn't dislodge them within 10 minutes.
My point was that you do not balance for inexperienced. you balance for experienced or even professional levels. same with almost every game out there. Nexzil would have conceded by that point, because the game is hopeless... Also, please don't use guarantee with a hypothetical... it's a bit too hyperbolic for my taste.
Comments
Now he's getting it.
there may be a problem end game... say it's a game of 14 and the last stand marines have 3 dualies...
that might pose a problem. but lvl 3 upgrades reverting to lvl 2... is low impact for one, and fixing a nonexistent problem for the other. dropping to 00 would make it a massecre, but at that point, you're just speeding up the inevitable. hell, with the op, i think they coulda finished it by just throwing endless gorges at them... in waves of course. get an onos to draw fire, and everybody else just start biling everything in sight.
Sorry but marines hardly have a slippery slope, oh so they cant get Exo's or JP's on 1 CC.
Apart from that they have every other upgrade available, full weaponry from the armoury, all weapons and armour upgrades etc.
Aliens have the slippery slope, losing upgrades and attacks as hives go down.
If marines had a similarly slippery slope we would never have seen base recycling occur as aliens would be able to easily finish them off.
The bigger pop servers (ie 12v12 or 16v16) makes these turtles a lot harder to take down than they should be.
Having 10+ ppl shooting even just LMG's with w3 kills onos very quickly, throw in a sentry battery, maybe replace some LMG's with GL's or FT and this picture starts getting even tougher.
It should not be a challenge to end a game that is already lost, that it is illustrates an issue with game balance.
The games over bar the last parade....which should not take over 5 minutes to complete.
If we want to have fewer games ending by concede votes then we need to find a way to allow aliens to actually finish things without requiring stupid levels of co-ordination (after all a marine comm can end a game on his own with arcs).
@ neoken, I dont believe hitting the CC is in itself a way of breaking the turtle (as they are often in worse places to get to than power nodes) but that by destroying it the game ends...with a node you have to kill the surviving marines/macs to ensure that node cant be repaired.
You're going to need to explain this one to me.
As for the last part, I disagree. Give Nexzil level 3 everything and 8 players, with 50 spending res and 1 minute before the onslaught, and I guarantee Archea attacking wouldn't dislodge them within 10 minutes.
Find a way to end a turtle with a feature that doesn't change anything outside of the turtling situation, and I'm game. Until then, I'm just going to stick with teamwork as aliens and conceding as marines.
My point was that you do not balance for inexperienced. you balance for experienced or even professional levels. same with almost every game out there. Nexzil would have conceded by that point, because the game is hopeless... Also, please don't use guarantee with a hypothetical... it's a bit too hyperbolic for my taste.