I don't like the rabbit fade as well. Didn't took me 5 secs to keep him fast, but this constant hopping and jump key pressing is not what I would call intuitive/fun. In fact, it is very annoying. Can't say much about the skulk movement. It seems to be slower and I liked how it was before, but I will give that some more time. Maybe it will get better.
A few remarks:
- The description of phantom says it make me invisible, it doesn't say anything about still (partly) beeing visible at all. That is misleading and will lead to many "cheater, how could you know I am here" call outs.
- If I make a halucination of a drifter, that drifter makes marine walking sounds when moving. uncool.
- I would prefer to choose between upgrades when the 2nd hive went up. Investing a huge amount of res only to get spores unlocked is strange.
There are a few things that are great about the patch and even more that I don't like, but writing them down will only hit deaf ears so I won't
Also no panting skulks means it can be incredibly hard to prepare for the super fast skulks. So what if people thought it was a "silly" sound. It worked and people only thought it was silly for the first 2-3 hours of playing it and then they got over the sound really.
Yeah this is actually a horrible change both from a balance and fun perspective. Incoming fast skulks shouldn't be stealth ninjas and the panting noise was both a great way to let the player know that they're moving at a fair speed as well as just a nice bit of immersion, it really gave the sensation that you were pushing your lil skulky body to the limit! I strongly hope this wasn't an intentional change from BT
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
What in the world gives you the impression that your feedback would fall on deaf ears??
Every single thing in this patch is a direct result of listening to player feedback... Many from these very forums.
Thank you for your well written feedback, as well.
- I would prefer to choose between upgrades when the 2nd hive went up. Investing a huge amount of res only to get spores unlocked is strange
What about marines getting jetpacks/exos on 1 base? Should skulks be dead because they can't get leap? Besides, JPs/exos are a heavy investment on their part too.
I must say, I do not like the new patch. It is a totally different game now, and I liked the old one much better.
I tried the bt mod a few times, but never became a big fan. Most of the people I have played with today share my sentiment.
Actually drifters cost 3 tres not 5. Also PG on infestation? How different is that from a gorge tunnel right outside of a marine base that doesnt need infestation?
When I tested yesterday they costed 5 res.
Some differences between Gorge tunnels and PGs is that
- Marines can use tunnels, Aliens can't use PG
- Aliens can't beacon all their players to a PG for a concerted rush
- and again, as I was speaking about scouting, you can scan for a Tunnel and Aliens can't stop this, Aliens have to find the PG by themselves.
In short, PGs and Tunnels are entirely different. Duh.
I was talking about Drifters and scouting in light of PG on Infestation, not Tunnels or anything else which has nothing to do with that.
All I say is that it would be nice to have a choice for adding diversification. If I want to research spores before leap, so be it. But that doesn't automatically mean that I would not react to JPs and get leap before spores. Why so aggressive, did you have some bad experiences? Would you prefer to have a fixed research tree so that every game will be the same and comms won't do any "mistakes"? Sounds boring.
The changes that have went into this patch has come from the most open development style I've seen in ANY comercial game. BT mod has been going for months, open to anybody to jump onto a server, play and give their opinion/feedback. This isn't a patch for the "pro's", it's a patch to try and nail down issues players have had with the game since release (and the beta before it). It was about trying to do whats best for the game as a whole, not what's best for the handful of "pro's". Sewlek has been an absolute machine in it's development, it was rare to join an EU game (thanks [HBZ]) without him being there, taking feedback from whoever was playing - be it casuals like myself or top clanners.
If you don't like it, please give it some time to get used to. I know learning a technique such as the new movement can be daunting and frustrating if you're dying constantly to those who already have it nailed, but with time & experience it'll "click" and hopefully you'll see it as a positive thing (and more fun!) as I certainly do.
The only change I actually like in this patch is the veil upgrades. "Phantom" and the new aura seem fairly well balanced compared to each other and the spur and shell upgrades. Other than that, I've found the JP change very fun to play with but near impossible to play against. ONE of the several flamethrower improvements should probably be kept, like structure disableing or increased clip or gorge ownage, but all of them together are way too powerful
Some people here are stuck with that "they changed it, now it sucks" mentality. Give it a shot. I was *very* skeptical before I jumped in and helped test and change BT. I did hate it for the first few hours, but once I learned the new stuff I actually liked it a lot more than the old NS2, even though there are still some issues to be solved.
ONE of the several flamethrower improvements should probably be kept, like structure disableing or increased clip or gorge ownage, but all of them together are way too powerful
3. MARINES CAN NOT STRAFE JUMP ANYMORE. HOW DID NOBODY NOTICE THIS LOL? Or is it a bug. When you W+D run and press jump you jump FORWARD not to NE.
strafe jumping marines have silly amounts of agility in 250. You can turn 180 mid air, completely throwing skulks off. If anything I think marine air control needs to be reduced a little.
To everyone who is complaining - these reactions are natural, people will always respond negatively to drastic changes, especially to things that they really enjoyed. But I really suggest that you hold off judgement for a little bit until you get the chance to play more and see how these changes pan out in game. I dare say that most of the people who are now supportive of the BT (myself included) at one point disapproved of a number of the changes just as you do now. The sky isn't falling, the game isn't as different as you think it is.
Gl at the beginning isn't a good choice, specially with "no whip counter"...
Marines play fine, but playing on alien side really feel bad.
The Upgradesystem as Alien Commander is also very confusing, was it really necessary to change alien tech?
Sorry, but with this patch, you made the game feel weird.
Natural selection is always changing, bt has been out for quite some time now, so everyone has had a chance to play it,
I dont understand why all this hate is comming, the changes are good give or take a few, but they can be fixed, improved, just play the game for a few hours and you will start to like the changes.
Just give it a chance rather than reading the changelog and jumping the gun.
3. MARINES CAN NOT STRAFE JUMP ANYMORE. HOW DID NOBODY NOTICE THIS LOL? Or is it a bug. When you W+D run and press jump you jump FORWARD not to NE.
strafe jumping marines have silly amounts of agility in 250. You can turn 180 mid air, completely throwing skulks off. If anything I think marine air control needs to be reduced a little.
Yes air control on marines is stupid. But I was talking about strafe+forward jumping NOT BEING POSSIBLE ANYMORE. If you strafe+forward and jump you jump FORWARD instead of to the right/left.
JektJoin Date: 2012-02-05Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited June 2013
I wouldn't disagree at all that the information regarding changes isn't properly given to the player in-game. Life form specific evolutions being tied to support structures is maybe the biggest offender here. There really is no way of knowing that to get leap, you need to build a shift and click on it once the biomass requirement has been met, or what evolutions tie in with each structure unless you read the description bubble. Which is in word sentence structure instead of something compact and concise that can be scrolled over.
The in game tutorials should be removed entirely. Scrims that were played during the beta, release date help videos, outdated explore mode and the current ingame hint clips. Right now I think it is the most important aspect that needs to be addressed and improved. A tutorial system needs to be sequential, brief, interactive, give the player a sense of progression and get them familiar with the workings of a standard NS2 round.
Then there needs to be ingame help systems in place for people who don't go through the tutorial. In game tips that explain an arms lab the first time you build one for example. This information should be given in a well presented panel that fades out when you stop looking at it, with any voice tutelage defaulted to off.
Thinking about it, a great tutorial might be one of the most challenging and time consuming extras to get into a complex, independent game, but it's worth every bit of the effort. So many on my steam list just got so overwhelmed after joining an in progress game for the first time.
Well you finally did it, from the first Alpha to 250 - and now I hate the game, what a pile of utter rubbish. Taken the core and twisted it to the worst experiance from the 2fps engine demo. Remove this awful update for the love of god!
Seriously I think we need some digital tissues for all the Q_Q happening. Really dont get how the "core" has been twisted. If you're gettin 2 fps, you have other problems going on than one patch update.
What in the world gives you the impression that your feedback would fall on deaf ears??
Every single thing in this patch is a direct result of listening to player feedback... Many from these very forums.
Thank you for your well written feedback, as well.
While I think you actually care about what people have to say good or bad, unfortunately there are other moderators who do not want to hear anything bad. This community is toxic and moderators corrupt. Thats why people feel their feedback falls on deaf ears.
I had a member from the Australian NS2 Community add me on steam and inform me that the post I made below(the first one in the list) was closed arbitrarily based off of a private communication on their forums. I was given the impression the correspondence was similar to, "Hey I don't like that this guy does not like the Balance Test Changes. Please close his thread."
I for one feel extremely alienated by your company's public face and think that your community management is a joke.
amazing changes
I have not played for about two months, waiting for this patch
just played one round at Docking and realized that I return to the game
the game has become much more diverse and fun
many ppls do not understand how these changes have been thought out before implementation
The nonconstructive armageddon style feedback has not only met but exceeded my expectations.
You are allowed to not like changes but when you don't specifically point out what you don't like (and more importantly why), your feedback is virtually worthless. I find it hard to believe that someone can hate EVERY change in that list. There are two types of negative feedback in this thread.
The first is the completely useless posts that say nothing but "I DON'T LIKE IT":
Well there we go game died at version 250 Onos Bar signing out .
Well you finally did it, from the first Alpha to 250 - and now I hate the game, what a pile of utter rubbish. Taken the core and twisted it to the worst experiance from the 2fps engine demo. Remove this awful update for the love of god!
Then there is negative feedback phrased infinitely more constructively:
These changes are very divisive and that's understandable as many are very passionate about this game but reading this thread, watching people abuse the flag feature to "super disagree" with others and post inflammatory remarks is pretty shameful. This is not how you effect change and bring the game to a better place. If you disagree with a change, articulate why, maybe give ideas on how it can be executed better. If you want a revert a mechanic maybe first try to understand why it was changed then offer a suggestion that would be a better improvement to what we have that would achieve the same idea.
This thread is already a frustrating read, not because people don't like the changes, but because some can't seem to articulate specifics about where and why the changes have failed.
Comments
A few remarks:
- The description of phantom says it make me invisible, it doesn't say anything about still (partly) beeing visible at all. That is misleading and will lead to many "cheater, how could you know I am here" call outs.
- If I make a halucination of a drifter, that drifter makes marine walking sounds when moving. uncool.
- I would prefer to choose between upgrades when the 2nd hive went up. Investing a huge amount of res only to get spores unlocked is strange.
There are a few things that are great about the patch and even more that I don't like, but writing them down will only hit deaf ears so I won't
Yeah this is actually a horrible change both from a balance and fun perspective. Incoming fast skulks shouldn't be stealth ninjas and the panting noise was both a great way to let the player know that they're moving at a fair speed as well as just a nice bit of immersion, it really gave the sensation that you were pushing your lil skulky body to the limit! I strongly hope this wasn't an intentional change from BT
Every single thing in this patch is a direct result of listening to player feedback... Many from these very forums.
Thank you for your well written feedback, as well.
What about marines getting jetpacks/exos on 1 base? Should skulks be dead because they can't get leap? Besides, JPs/exos are a heavy investment on their part too.
I tried the bt mod a few times, but never became a big fan. Most of the people I have played with today share my sentiment.
When I tested yesterday they costed 5 res.
Some differences between Gorge tunnels and PGs is that
- Marines can use tunnels, Aliens can't use PG
- Aliens can't beacon all their players to a PG for a concerted rush
- and again, as I was speaking about scouting, you can scan for a Tunnel and Aliens can't stop this, Aliens have to find the PG by themselves.
In short, PGs and Tunnels are entirely different. Duh.
I was talking about Drifters and scouting in light of PG on Infestation, not Tunnels or anything else which has nothing to do with that.
If you don't like it, please give it some time to get used to. I know learning a technique such as the new movement can be daunting and frustrating if you're dying constantly to those who already have it nailed, but with time & experience it'll "click" and hopefully you'll see it as a positive thing (and more fun!) as I certainly do.
2. Marine ice-skating and jump momentum loss is nice tbh, it was ridiculous how huge marine acceleration was before, even though kinda fun.
3. MARINES CAN NOT STRAFE JUMP ANYMORE. HOW DID NOBODY NOTICE THIS LOL? Or is it a bug. When you W+D run and press jump you jump FORWARD not to NE.
Like this.
strafe jumping marines have silly amounts of agility in 250. You can turn 180 mid air, completely throwing skulks off. If anything I think marine air control needs to be reduced a little.
This update is like "You dont like the Bt mod? Fuck you, we dont care
Please, give it time and play a few rounds.
Would that be NS tutu?
Marines play fine, but playing on alien side really feel bad.
The Upgradesystem as Alien Commander is also very confusing, was it really necessary to change alien tech?
Sorry, but with this patch, you made the game feel weird.
I dont understand why all this hate is comming, the changes are good give or take a few, but they can be fixed, improved, just play the game for a few hours and you will start to like the changes.
Just give it a chance rather than reading the changelog and jumping the gun.
Yes air control on marines is stupid. But I was talking about strafe+forward jumping NOT BEING POSSIBLE ANYMORE. If you strafe+forward and jump you jump FORWARD instead of to the right/left.
The in game tutorials should be removed entirely. Scrims that were played during the beta, release date help videos, outdated explore mode and the current ingame hint clips. Right now I think it is the most important aspect that needs to be addressed and improved. A tutorial system needs to be sequential, brief, interactive, give the player a sense of progression and get them familiar with the workings of a standard NS2 round.
Then there needs to be ingame help systems in place for people who don't go through the tutorial. In game tips that explain an arms lab the first time you build one for example. This information should be given in a well presented panel that fades out when you stop looking at it, with any voice tutelage defaulted to off.
Thinking about it, a great tutorial might be one of the most challenging and time consuming extras to get into a complex, independent game, but it's worth every bit of the effort. So many on my steam list just got so overwhelmed after joining an in progress game for the first time.
Seriously I think we need some digital tissues for all the Q_Q happening. Really dont get how the "core" has been twisted. If you're gettin 2 fps, you have other problems going on than one patch update.
Anyways... *offers tissue
And unwilling to adapt. But then, for some people these changes came with little warning, and they're quite big.
While I think you actually care about what people have to say good or bad, unfortunately there are other moderators who do not want to hear anything bad. This community is toxic and moderators corrupt. Thats why people feel their feedback falls on deaf ears.
I had a member from the Australian NS2 Community add me on steam and inform me that the post I made below(the first one in the list) was closed arbitrarily based off of a private communication on their forums. I was given the impression the correspondence was similar to, "Hey I don't like that this guy does not like the Balance Test Changes. Please close his thread."
I for one feel extremely alienated by your company's public face and think that your community management is a joke.
Examples(All of which are locked):
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/130682/balance-test-changes-constructive-skulk-movement-discussion#latest
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/130717/all-games-die-eventually#latest
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/130701/i-hate-balance-test#latest
I have not played for about two months, waiting for this patch
just played one round at Docking and realized that I return to the game
the game has become much more diverse and fun
many ppls do not understand how these changes have been thought out before implementation
You are allowed to not like changes but when you don't specifically point out what you don't like (and more importantly why), your feedback is virtually worthless. I find it hard to believe that someone can hate EVERY change in that list. There are two types of negative feedback in this thread.
The first is the completely useless posts that say nothing but "I DON'T LIKE IT":
Then there is negative feedback phrased infinitely more constructively:
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2126636/#Comment_2126636
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2126716/#Comment_2126716
These changes are very divisive and that's understandable as many are very passionate about this game but reading this thread, watching people abuse the flag feature to "super disagree" with others and post inflammatory remarks is pretty shameful. This is not how you effect change and bring the game to a better place. If you disagree with a change, articulate why, maybe give ideas on how it can be executed better. If you want a revert a mechanic maybe first try to understand why it was changed then offer a suggestion that would be a better improvement to what we have that would achieve the same idea.
This thread is already a frustrating read, not because people don't like the changes, but because some can't seem to articulate specifics about where and why the changes have failed.