The fade should just be changed to automatically be crouching down while blinking, so as to not require the user to hold it or get stuck on anything, and then this way you can prevent the hitbox differences as well as the 30% smaller target that marines have to face.
This and there should be some protection against accidental wallsticking during skulk bunnyhop without having to hold crouch.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
This thread has a common misconception, evolution is not a one way street or has version control. The word devolving shouldn't even exist, cause that would require a Delorean and the shenanigans of Dr. Emmett Brown :P
The fade should just be changed to automatically be crouching down while blinking, so as to not require the user to hold it or get stuck on anything, and then this way you can prevent the hitbox differences as well as the 30% smaller target that marines have to face.
We already have jump queing...no need to dumb things down further by doing an auto crouch....
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
just to state this officially: the untied Command Stations is NOT something that is going to be implemented to the default game any time soon, if ever. The only reason it is in the mod is to figure out the consequences of such a change, and if it gives surprisingly good results and improves the gameplay in an unforeseen positive way, I will continue testing with that or it maybe leads to new / better ideas. Just because something was in NS1 wont stop me, that would be an extremely limiting restriction.
The fade should just be changed to automatically be crouching down while blinking, so as to not require the user to hold it or get stuck on anything, and then this way you can prevent the hitbox differences as well as the 30% smaller target that marines have to face.
The fade SHOULD be changed back to the old movement. The new movement is a failed experiment of spamming spacebar without any skill, goodbye carefully executed movements, hello spacebar spam.
Theres a lot of things the patch helped, but many things were unnecessarily dumbed down. So much for double jump, shadow step and blink, now you just blink, and very occasionally shadow step. The removal of the scaled skulk bite also lowered the skill ceiling on skulks.
The fade should just be changed to automatically be crouching down while blinking, so as to not require the user to hold it or get stuck on anything, and then this way you can prevent the hitbox differences as well as the 30% smaller target that marines have to face.
The fade SHOULD be changed back to the old movement. The new movement is a failed experiment of spamming spacebar without any skill, goodbye carefully executed movements, hello spacebar spam.
Theres a lot of things the patch helped, but many things were unnecessarily dumbed down. So much for double jump, shadow step and blink, now you just blink, and very occasionally shadow step. The removal of the scaled skulk bite also lowered the skill ceiling on skulks.
I think that's a pretty naive view, and fairly offensive to the really good fades out there. You're suggesting that to get good at fade, all you need to do is mash space. This is patently wrong, as any half-decent-pub-fade (who will still get prawned in a comp game) will tell you, let alone the great high level comp fades out there...
I've 1v1'd my share of b250 fades on pubs. The majority of fades I've seen on pubs spam space bar like you suggest, but they don't seem to last very long before getting tagged, either by good teamwork, or by good individual skill by the marines. Moving fast for a bit is one thing. Moving fast around the entire map while avoiding enemy fire is another. Moving fast while avoiding enemy fire, getting frags and controlling energy such that you don't get tagged by high level marines is entirely a different level of play, and the skill that entails should not be trivialised by people saying the new movement system makes it too easy to move fast as a fade.
This thread has a common misconception, evolution is not a one way street or has version control. The word devolving shouldn't even exist, cause that would require a Delorean and the shenanigans of Dr. Emmett Brown :P
I think the word being sought is dedifferentiation.
The fade should just be changed to automatically be crouching down while blinking, so as to not require the user to hold it or get stuck on anything, and then this way you can prevent the hitbox differences as well as the 30% smaller target that marines have to face.
The fade SHOULD be changed back to the old movement. The new movement is a failed experiment of spamming spacebar without any skill, goodbye carefully executed movements, hello spacebar spam.
Theres a lot of things the patch helped, but many things were unnecessarily dumbed down. So much for double jump, shadow step and blink, now you just blink, and very occasionally shadow step. The removal of the scaled skulk bite also lowered the skill ceiling on skulks.
I think that's a pretty naive view, and fairly offensive to the really good fades out there. You're suggesting that to get good at fade, all you need to do is mash space. This is patently wrong, as any half-decent-pub-fade (who will still get prawned in a comp game) will tell you, let alone the great high level comp fades out there...
I've 1v1'd my share of b250 fades on pubs. The majority of fades I've seen on pubs spam space bar like you suggest, but they don't seem to last very long before getting tagged, either by good teamwork, or by good individual skill by the marines. Moving fast for a bit is one thing. Moving fast around the entire map while avoiding enemy fire is another. Moving fast while avoiding enemy fire, getting frags and controlling energy such that you don't get tagged by high level marines is entirely a different level of play, and the skill that entails should not be trivialised by people saying the new movement system makes it too easy to move fast as a fade.
Yes i forgot, it also involves moving the mouse. Wheras previously there were more tools available.
The fade should just be changed to automatically be crouching down while blinking, so as to not require the user to hold it or get stuck on anything, and then this way you can prevent the hitbox differences as well as the 30% smaller target that marines have to face.
The fade SHOULD be changed back to the old movement. The new movement is a failed experiment of spamming spacebar without any skill, goodbye carefully executed movements, hello spacebar spam.
Theres a lot of things the patch helped, but many things were unnecessarily dumbed down. So much for double jump, shadow step and blink, now you just blink, and very occasionally shadow step. The removal of the scaled skulk bite also lowered the skill ceiling on skulks.
How does the removal of glancing bites lower the skill ceiling for skulks?
The fade should just be changed to automatically be crouching down while blinking, so as to not require the user to hold it or get stuck on anything, and then this way you can prevent the hitbox differences as well as the 30% smaller target that marines have to face.
The fade SHOULD be changed back to the old movement. The new movement is a failed experiment of spamming spacebar without any skill, goodbye carefully executed movements, hello spacebar spam.
Theres a lot of things the patch helped, but many things were unnecessarily dumbed down. So much for double jump, shadow step and blink, now you just blink, and very occasionally shadow step. The removal of the scaled skulk bite also lowered the skill ceiling on skulks.
How does the removal of glancing bites lower the skill ceiling for skulks?
The devil was in the details. With the removal of staged bites, the size of the "high damage" 75 bite cone increased drastically.
The fade should just be changed to automatically be crouching down while blinking, so as to not require the user to hold it or get stuck on anything, and then this way you can prevent the hitbox differences as well as the 30% smaller target that marines have to face.
The fade SHOULD be changed back to the old movement. The new movement is a failed experiment of spamming spacebar without any skill, goodbye carefully executed movements, hello spacebar spam.
Theres a lot of things the patch helped, but many things were unnecessarily dumbed down. So much for double jump, shadow step and blink, now you just blink, and very occasionally shadow step. The removal of the scaled skulk bite also lowered the skill ceiling on skulks.
Confucius say ... Being able to move around the map fast does not a good fade make.
Confucius say ... Being able to move around the map fast does not a good fade make.
Indeed. As i mentioned, prepare to be hitting spacebar a lot if you expect to manage to stay close enough to marines to kill them, as otherwise they can just outrun you.
I want to know if there are others that share the concerns about this just becoming NS1 with better graphics and if there is some kind of middle-ground between the haters and lovers of B250 to see if we can accommodate as many of these fans and paying customers as possible, surely that would be a good thing.
Why are "fans" and "paying customers" separated? They are not mutually exclusive. Furthermore, I get very leery when someone feels the need to play the "paying customer" card...
The fade should just be changed to automatically be crouching down while blinking, so as to not require the user to hold it or get stuck on anything, and then this way you can prevent the hitbox differences as well as the 30% smaller target that marines have to face.
The fade SHOULD be changed back to the old movement. The new movement is a failed experiment of spamming spacebar without any skill, goodbye carefully executed movements, hello spacebar spam.
Theres a lot of things the patch helped, but many things were unnecessarily dumbed down. So much for double jump, shadow step and blink, now you just blink, and very occasionally shadow step. The removal of the scaled skulk bite also lowered the skill ceiling on skulks.
How does the removal of glancing bites lower the skill ceiling for skulks?
The devil was in the details. With the removal of staged bites, the size of the "high damage" 75 bite cone increased drastically.
On one side i agree with you here about skulk bites that it is easy to get your max bite dmg as its now all you can and needing less accuracy, that said it does makes it easy to gauge the remaining health of your target as well.
When it comes down to it would also prefer the old way of glancing hits but i would of lessened the size of the outer cones so the gradient is steeper but the values remain the same. I enjoyed the skill needed to get that perfect bite or wear them down with fast glancing blows.
As for Fades, I am a lover of the old way of movement as I liked feel of the way of movement using shadow-step jump and almost glide as you curl around those corners conserving your energy just in case you gotta make a rapid blink. I can use the new Fades and I must say that it doesn't feel right for it to be pretty much bunny hopping, I keep laughing at it because it makes me think that it should have a Easter bunny or kangaroo skin.
My main issue though is that changing things so drastically rubbed a lot of people up the wrong way, making them have to completely relearn to use a product after they have spend x hours learning to use it, essentially creating angry customers which is a really risky thing to do from a business standpoint. So I would suggest that if there are to be big changes that you don't throw it all in at once and expect people to just get on with it, not to say that they didn't have a chance to know the changes as it was on the balance test but many did not even know to look at that as official. Perhaps that needs to be more advertised some how?
I want to know if there are others that share the concerns about this just becoming NS1 with better graphics and if there is some kind of middle-ground between the haters and lovers of B250 to see if we can accommodate as many of these fans and paying customers as possible, surely that would be a good thing.
Why are "fans" and "paying customers" separated? They are not mutually exclusive. Furthermore, I get very leery when someone feels the need to play the "paying customer" card...
I think you misunderstand or I represented what I meant, fans and paying customers is one and the same. You are a fan and you own the game therefore you a fan and a paying customer. I hope that answers your question.
Ok, all trolling aside, the argument that the new fade 'looks funny hopping around' is rubbish. I mean, if you start to analyze this game in terms of looks we have dogs that run on walls, mini-hippos that burp green mist, Pterodactyls that fart green gas, gorilla-rhinos and well... I am not really sure what a fade is.
One of the reasons for the fade changes is that the new movement gives the average joe so much more control once they figure out how to maintain momentum. This, in turn, gives good fades so much more freedom in their movements. Yes, you have to use spacebar just as you used to spam shadow-step. Add A/D strafing to that and you get much more control when navigating the map. On a side note, I hit spacebar almost just as much when playing skulk as I do fade.
On a side note, I hit spacebar almost just as much when playing skulk as I do fade.
Picking up your side note, I think the nay-sayers for the new movement system have a valid point when they say it looks ridiculous, because the most prevalent lifeform and the main assassin upgrade lifeform both bounce around like bunnies. If it were just the fade that bounced around, this argument might not hold so much water. It's not in actual fact much different from b249 and before, but I think some people (myself included) would have preferred something that was less... bouncy.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to adapt and overcome and I'm fully used to the new system. That doesn't stop me thinking it looks silly, though!
The fade should just be changed to automatically be crouching down while blinking, so as to not require the user to hold it or get stuck on anything, and then this way you can prevent the hitbox differences as well as the 30% smaller target that marines have to face.
I'd like to see a crouch toggle added into the game (i.e. press crouch once and you stay crouched, press it again to stand up).
just to state this officially: the untied Command Stations is NOT something that is going to be implemented to the default game any time soon, if ever. The only reason it is in the mod is to figure out the consequences of such a change, and if it gives surprisingly good results and improves the gameplay in an unforeseen positive way, I will continue testing with that or it maybe leads to new / better ideas. Just because something was in NS1 wont stop me, that would be an extremely limiting restriction.
Bummer, relocations were some of the most interesting and fun games in NS1. Was excited to see what would happen with this.
On a side note, I hit spacebar almost just as much when playing skulk as I do fade.
Picking up your side note, I think the nay-sayers for the new movement system have a valid point when they say it looks ridiculous, because the most prevalent lifeform and the main assassin upgrade lifeform both bounce around like bunnies. If it were just the fade that bounced around, this argument might not hold so much water. It's not in actual fact much different from b249 and before, but I think some people (myself included) would have preferred something that was less... bouncy.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to adapt and overcome and I'm fully used to the new system. That doesn't stop me thinking it looks silly, though!
Ask yourself, why do skulk players jump a lot? For yoloswag? Hardly. It's because its much more difficult to aim at (for the average player mind you). With practice even the jumping is irrelevant and you will get killed anyway, but for
This is a legitimate complaint, having to release and press jump again adds basically nothing to the game. The fact that for optimal play you want to always crouch while blinking doesn't help either.
In my mind the system rework was because the original system was wonky and difficult to use, except for the most diehard players. Since we aren't all diehard players, diehard in the sense of majority of playtime invested in this game. This system is easy to use while still maintaining a high skill ceiling in which both random pub-stars can use it and your competitive friends can master it.
Movement qualms aside I think the changes were rather awesome. Re-learning for us fans shouldn't take but a game or two, since we've been playing for years. Re-learning for new and returning players should be easy because they didn't even play in the first place!
It was extremely nice to see player numbers in the thousands and I hope UWE picked up a few hundred regulars. I personally had my friend try it again and he was thoroughly impressed with the performance increase, as that was his biggest complaint prior.
PS: The thing about fades and ducking and blinking etc. That's all min-maxing to be quite honest. Not many regular players care about min-maxing. They care about shooting aliens and eating humans.
Ask yourself, why do skulk players jump a lot? For yoloswag? Hardly. It's because its much more difficult to aim at (for the average player mind you). With practice even the jumping is irrelevant and you will get killed anyway, but for
um, you jump as skulk because thats how you're supposed to move. Is this a stealth groundskulk im replying to?
PS: The thing about fades and ducking and blinking etc. That's all min-maxing to be quite honest. Not many regular players care about min-maxing. They care about shooting aliens and eating humans.
oh, yes, it IS a groundskulk!
In my mind the system rework was because the original system was wonky and difficult to use, except for the most diehard players. Since we aren't all diehard players, diehard in the sense of majority of playtime invested in this game. This system is easy to use while still maintaining a high skill ceiling in which both random pub-stars can use it and your competitive friends can master it.
It wasn't wonky, difficult perhaps but this is a game with reasonably placed skill ceilings, and it reflected that. From a new player's perspective, they will never figure it out unless someone tells them or they watch a guide. How are they supposed to know to tap the blink ability and then jump jump jump? Newbies just hold it down, all the time. Then they try shadow step and "oh, i stop right after, thats not very useful."
When i started playing ns2 i managed to do very well in pubs with the fade, without having to had read "the manual". When i finally looked at the more advanced stuff, there were minor things missing which i could then make use of, but it didnt rewrite my gameplay. There's no way a player is going to assume such a silly pattern is whats actually intended, and it's the ONLY way to move and survive more than 10 seconds as fade. In fact, several people i've introduced to ns2, without my intervention, were completely unable to figure it out. someone learning this is going to be holding down blink to move, then get hit by a sidewinder when they realize it shouldn't be active for more than a moment, new gameplay style.
I hope that dispells any myths about a lower skill floor, because there isn't one.
um, you jump as skulk because thats how you're supposed to move. Is this a stealth groundskulk im replying to?
Supposed to move? That's highly subjective. Again, trying to recall my post in the BT thread (too lazy to search), it begs to question whether or not a quadraped would indeed move by hopping, save for an actual rabbit. Given they are alien, who truly knows...
So lets instead take the fact, well safe assumption, that the skulk was designed to be a melee ambusher. Also take the fact that we as players take the movement mechanics and utilize them to play the skulk outside of its designed role, a face to face combatant. Combining the two is optimal of course, but saying the skulk requires hopping around is silly.
More on topic though is that wall jumping and keeping momentum was difficult in relation to the ease of use we have now. While this of course will take some time to learn as wall jumping and even bunny hopping did, I would like to think it would be incredibly shortened learning period.
Regarding your fade expertise: If blink was created only to burst fire then the creators would've done just that. Just because someone shoots blink for extended duration doesn't mean its wrong. It may not be optimal, but only the really competitive gamers optimize, aka min-max.
it seems that each balance mod is bringing ns2 closer and closer to ns1, is there some special reason for this?
Yes. NS is an interesting and deep game able to hold lasting interest and before 250, NS2 just wasn't. Despite years of tinkering, a lot of new mechanics in NS2 were fundamentally broken, and were reverted to the tested and working solutions found in NS.
I have over 1000 hours since December on this game which should tell you that i have enjoyed this game but as of build 250 I have seen the quality of players drop, and many many people raging about having to relearn everything (I must admit that annoyed me too with the fade after all the hours i put in practicing) and I have also been told by many that they have lost some interest in the game since that update and just play NS1 instead coz thats the way the game seems to be heading or leaving the game altogether.
I played maybe 5 hours since release, loging in every few patches or so to watch the game gradually deteriorate. I've put in easily two dozen hours since 250. It's a huge improvement.
PLEASE STOP MAKING THIS GAME INTO NS1, ITS NS2 SO LET IT BE NS2 AND DIFFERENT OTHERWISE ITS POINTLESS BUYING THIS GAME!
The point of a sequel is to take everything people like about their favourite game and extend and improve it; if you're not going to do that, it's just sleazy calling it a sequel. If you want to make a new game, make a new game and stop calling it a sequel. NS2 took nearly everything from NS1 and the few major changes that were made were aimed at problems identified in NS1; unfortunately the cure was worse than the disease. Combined with the terrible performance it made NS2 a thuroughly unfun game. Patch 250 makes huge strides towards fixing this.
In my mind the system rework was because the original system was wonky and difficult to use, except for the most diehard players. Since we aren't all diehard players, diehard in the sense of majority of playtime invested in this game. This system is easy to use while still maintaining a high skill ceiling in which both random pub-stars can use it and your competitive friends can master it.
This. Best summary of "why" for the new fade movement system. Completely agree.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
I find that good fading requires good decision making (e.g. not blinking into a group of 5 shotgun marines) and learning how to fluidly navigate around the cramped rooms/corridors that make up most of NS2. As long as the movement mechanic meets a sufficient minimum threshold of mobility, then other factors become limiting to how well you do. I've found both the new and old movement styles meet that threshold.
It wasn't wonky, difficult perhaps but this is a game with reasonably placed skill ceilings, and it reflected that. From a new player's perspective, they will never figure it out unless someone tells them or they watch a guide. How are they supposed to know to tap the blink ability and then jump jump jump? Newbies just hold it down, all the time. Then they try shadow step and "oh, i stop right after, thats not very useful."
When i started playing ns2 i managed to do very well in pubs with the fade, without having to had read "the manual". When i finally looked at the more advanced stuff, there were minor things missing which i could then make use of, but it didnt rewrite my gameplay. There's no way a player is going to assume such a silly pattern is whats actually intended, and it's the ONLY way to move and survive more than 10 seconds as fade. In fact, several people i've introduced to ns2, without my intervention, were completely unable to figure it out. someone learning this is going to be holding down blink to move, then get hit by a sidewinder when they realize it shouldn't be active for more than a moment, new gameplay style.
The proper shadowstep pre250 movement was even more unintuitive than what we have now and in my opinion even more obscure than bunnyhop. Do you really think that shadowstepping and jumping before the momentum is removed to have it ignore friction coefficients was at all obvious? In fact I can almost guarantee it was a bug that was left in for balancing purposes (oh look, just like NS1 bhop!) I often wonder how many people actually knew how to move properly as a fade with that system and how it actually worked who are complaining that it is gone.
see:
In terms of ease, the new system is by FAR simpler to pick up. I've had such an easy time explaining it to people on servers when they ask how I move so quick as a fade, compared to trying to explain the old system. Mechanically it is a simple thing to achieve and the skill is not in the execution but rather in how you apply it. Another consequence of the new system is that the fade pre-SS is more predictable. This makes handling them as a marine actually not a damn nightmare when they pop around the 6 minute mark. This is intentional.
I hope that dispells any myths about a lower skill floor, because there isn't one
Yep, that anecdotal evidence is just about as useful as mine. Hint: Its not and thus nothing is dispelled.
This game's problem is not that it's skill floors are too high or any other such nonsense, its that the tutorials are lacking. Just as there wasn't a REAL explanation in game on how to do PROPER shadowstep double jump, there is also no explanation of how to maintain momentum with blink.
It's really not hard to adapt to 250. Movement is interesting and closer to NS1, which has an extremely skill-based movement system. Alien commanding took me one try to understand - I asked someone two times while commanding.
It's not that hard. I like most of the changes. I like NS1 and NS2, I don't care if they make NS2 closer to NS1 or NS1 closer to NS2...(build 3.0 beta3? )
Comments
This and there should be some protection against accidental wallsticking during skulk bunnyhop without having to hold crouch.
We already have jump queing...no need to dumb things down further by doing an auto crouch....
The fade SHOULD be changed back to the old movement. The new movement is a failed experiment of spamming spacebar without any skill, goodbye carefully executed movements, hello spacebar spam.
Theres a lot of things the patch helped, but many things were unnecessarily dumbed down. So much for double jump, shadow step and blink, now you just blink, and very occasionally shadow step. The removal of the scaled skulk bite also lowered the skill ceiling on skulks.
I think that's a pretty naive view, and fairly offensive to the really good fades out there. You're suggesting that to get good at fade, all you need to do is mash space. This is patently wrong, as any half-decent-pub-fade (who will still get prawned in a comp game) will tell you, let alone the great high level comp fades out there...
I've 1v1'd my share of b250 fades on pubs. The majority of fades I've seen on pubs spam space bar like you suggest, but they don't seem to last very long before getting tagged, either by good teamwork, or by good individual skill by the marines. Moving fast for a bit is one thing. Moving fast around the entire map while avoiding enemy fire is another. Moving fast while avoiding enemy fire, getting frags and controlling energy such that you don't get tagged by high level marines is entirely a different level of play, and the skill that entails should not be trivialised by people saying the new movement system makes it too easy to move fast as a fade.
You can do that? how did you find that out? Makes no sense to me...
I think the word being sought is dedifferentiation.
How does the removal of glancing bites lower the skill ceiling for skulks?
I keep my eyes and ears open, that's how.
The devil was in the details. With the removal of staged bites, the size of the "high damage" 75 bite cone increased drastically.
Confucius say ... Being able to move around the map fast does not a good fade make.
/sarcasm
Why are "fans" and "paying customers" separated? They are not mutually exclusive. Furthermore, I get very leery when someone feels the need to play the "paying customer" card...
On one side i agree with you here about skulk bites that it is easy to get your max bite dmg as its now all you can and needing less accuracy, that said it does makes it easy to gauge the remaining health of your target as well.
When it comes down to it would also prefer the old way of glancing hits but i would of lessened the size of the outer cones so the gradient is steeper but the values remain the same. I enjoyed the skill needed to get that perfect bite or wear them down with fast glancing blows.
As for Fades, I am a lover of the old way of movement as I liked feel of the way of movement using shadow-step jump and almost glide as you curl around those corners conserving your energy just in case you gotta make a rapid blink. I can use the new Fades and I must say that it doesn't feel right for it to be pretty much bunny hopping, I keep laughing at it because it makes me think that it should have a Easter bunny or kangaroo skin.
My main issue though is that changing things so drastically rubbed a lot of people up the wrong way, making them have to completely relearn to use a product after they have spend x hours learning to use it, essentially creating angry customers which is a really risky thing to do from a business standpoint. So I would suggest that if there are to be big changes that you don't throw it all in at once and expect people to just get on with it, not to say that they didn't have a chance to know the changes as it was on the balance test but many did not even know to look at that as official. Perhaps that needs to be more advertised some how?
I think you misunderstand or I represented what I meant, fans and paying customers is one and the same. You are a fan and you own the game therefore you a fan and a paying customer. I hope that answers your question.
One of the reasons for the fade changes is that the new movement gives the average joe so much more control once they figure out how to maintain momentum. This, in turn, gives good fades so much more freedom in their movements. Yes, you have to use spacebar just as you used to spam shadow-step. Add A/D strafing to that and you get much more control when navigating the map. On a side note, I hit spacebar almost just as much when playing skulk as I do fade.
Picking up your side note, I think the nay-sayers for the new movement system have a valid point when they say it looks ridiculous, because the most prevalent lifeform and the main assassin upgrade lifeform both bounce around like bunnies. If it were just the fade that bounced around, this argument might not hold so much water. It's not in actual fact much different from b249 and before, but I think some people (myself included) would have preferred something that was less... bouncy.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to adapt and overcome and I'm fully used to the new system. That doesn't stop me thinking it looks silly, though!
I'd like to see a crouch toggle added into the game (i.e. press crouch once and you stay crouched, press it again to stand up).
Bummer, relocations were some of the most interesting and fun games in NS1. Was excited to see what would happen with this.
Ask yourself, why do skulk players jump a lot? For yoloswag? Hardly. It's because its much more difficult to aim at (for the average player mind you). With practice even the jumping is irrelevant and you will get killed anyway, but for
In my mind the system rework was because the original system was wonky and difficult to use, except for the most diehard players. Since we aren't all diehard players, diehard in the sense of majority of playtime invested in this game. This system is easy to use while still maintaining a high skill ceiling in which both random pub-stars can use it and your competitive friends can master it.
Movement qualms aside I think the changes were rather awesome. Re-learning for us fans shouldn't take but a game or two, since we've been playing for years. Re-learning for new and returning players should be easy because they didn't even play in the first place!
It was extremely nice to see player numbers in the thousands and I hope UWE picked up a few hundred regulars. I personally had my friend try it again and he was thoroughly impressed with the performance increase, as that was his biggest complaint prior.
PS: The thing about fades and ducking and blinking etc. That's all min-maxing to be quite honest. Not many regular players care about min-maxing. They care about shooting aliens and eating humans.
oh, yes, it IS a groundskulk!
It wasn't wonky, difficult perhaps but this is a game with reasonably placed skill ceilings, and it reflected that. From a new player's perspective, they will never figure it out unless someone tells them or they watch a guide. How are they supposed to know to tap the blink ability and then jump jump jump? Newbies just hold it down, all the time. Then they try shadow step and "oh, i stop right after, thats not very useful."
When i started playing ns2 i managed to do very well in pubs with the fade, without having to had read "the manual". When i finally looked at the more advanced stuff, there were minor things missing which i could then make use of, but it didnt rewrite my gameplay. There's no way a player is going to assume such a silly pattern is whats actually intended, and it's the ONLY way to move and survive more than 10 seconds as fade. In fact, several people i've introduced to ns2, without my intervention, were completely unable to figure it out. someone learning this is going to be holding down blink to move, then get hit by a sidewinder when they realize it shouldn't be active for more than a moment, new gameplay style.
I hope that dispells any myths about a lower skill floor, because there isn't one.
Supposed to move? That's highly subjective. Again, trying to recall my post in the BT thread (too lazy to search), it begs to question whether or not a quadraped would indeed move by hopping, save for an actual rabbit. Given they are alien, who truly knows...
So lets instead take the fact, well safe assumption, that the skulk was designed to be a melee ambusher. Also take the fact that we as players take the movement mechanics and utilize them to play the skulk outside of its designed role, a face to face combatant. Combining the two is optimal of course, but saying the skulk requires hopping around is silly.
More on topic though is that wall jumping and keeping momentum was difficult in relation to the ease of use we have now. While this of course will take some time to learn as wall jumping and even bunny hopping did, I would like to think it would be incredibly shortened learning period.
Regarding your fade expertise: If blink was created only to burst fire then the creators would've done just that. Just because someone shoots blink for extended duration doesn't mean its wrong. It may not be optimal, but only the really competitive gamers optimize, aka min-max.
Yes. NS is an interesting and deep game able to hold lasting interest and before 250, NS2 just wasn't. Despite years of tinkering, a lot of new mechanics in NS2 were fundamentally broken, and were reverted to the tested and working solutions found in NS.
I played maybe 5 hours since release, loging in every few patches or so to watch the game gradually deteriorate. I've put in easily two dozen hours since 250. It's a huge improvement.
The point of a sequel is to take everything people like about their favourite game and extend and improve it; if you're not going to do that, it's just sleazy calling it a sequel. If you want to make a new game, make a new game and stop calling it a sequel. NS2 took nearly everything from NS1 and the few major changes that were made were aimed at problems identified in NS1; unfortunately the cure was worse than the disease. Combined with the terrible performance it made NS2 a thuroughly unfun game. Patch 250 makes huge strides towards fixing this.
This. Best summary of "why" for the new fade movement system. Completely agree.
Well, I'm sure some folks would fuss anyway because griping is what they do...
The proper shadowstep pre250 movement was even more unintuitive than what we have now and in my opinion even more obscure than bunnyhop. Do you really think that shadowstepping and jumping before the momentum is removed to have it ignore friction coefficients was at all obvious? In fact I can almost guarantee it was a bug that was left in for balancing purposes (oh look, just like NS1 bhop!) I often wonder how many people actually knew how to move properly as a fade with that system and how it actually worked who are complaining that it is gone.
see:
In terms of ease, the new system is by FAR simpler to pick up. I've had such an easy time explaining it to people on servers when they ask how I move so quick as a fade, compared to trying to explain the old system. Mechanically it is a simple thing to achieve and the skill is not in the execution but rather in how you apply it. Another consequence of the new system is that the fade pre-SS is more predictable. This makes handling them as a marine actually not a damn nightmare when they pop around the 6 minute mark. This is intentional.
Yep, that anecdotal evidence is just about as useful as mine. Hint: Its not and thus nothing is dispelled.
This game's problem is not that it's skill floors are too high or any other such nonsense, its that the tutorials are lacking. Just as there wasn't a REAL explanation in game on how to do PROPER shadowstep double jump, there is also no explanation of how to maintain momentum with blink.
It's not that hard. I like most of the changes. I like NS1 and NS2, I don't care if they make NS2 closer to NS1 or NS1 closer to NS2...(build 3.0 beta3?