The mod doesn't make it more like NS1 (the games are very different).
Just to be sure, have you ever played NS1?
Anyways the 251 broke the game, and it got so boring, that I just don't play NS2 anymore. Even NS1 is better than NS2 right now. Please UWE, just revert the changes ASAP so I can play this game again.
The update made flamethrowers and grenade launchers WAYYYYY too OP. it also increased the marines ability to turtle (not necessarily a bad thing)
Fades are worthless now, and now we need drifters to build alien structures when they already built themselves VERY slowly? Now flamethrowers can destroy bile bombs too? They already destroy spores and that is enough. now we can get onos and exos quicker? That makes mid-game shorter and matches end too quickly (and NS2 matches already ended faster than NS1 BEFORE 251) Now fades get blink instead of shadowstep? Fades cant fight without shadowstep, which was supposed to make fades evade damage (while blink allowed fades to escape from risky situations, and without it you just avoid risky situations)
THEY BROKE THE GAME
PERIOD.
The stupidity of this comment is remarkable... I'm seriously hoping you're a troll.
The update made flamethrowers and grenade launchers WAYYYYY too OP. it also increased the marines ability to turtle (not necessarily a bad thing)
Fades are worthless now, and now we need drifters to build alien structures when they already built themselves VERY slowly? Now flamethrowers can destroy bile bombs too? They already destroy spores and that is enough. now we can get onos and exos quicker? That makes mid-game shorter and matches end too quickly (and NS2 matches already ended faster than NS1 BEFORE 251) Now fades get blink instead of shadowstep? Fades cant fight without shadowstep, which was supposed to make fades evade damage (while blink allowed fades to escape from risky situations, and without it you just avoid risky situations)
You do realize there is a reason for everything you are complaining about right? GL and FT were buffed to give marines more mid/end game options than just the unchanging SG/JP combo. Exos are now really weak even with armor, (although the 8 exo engame of 12v12 servers is still a problem.) The new fade is extremely superior when it comes to control over movement. I feel you just might be doing it wrong. Drifter building was added to increase the Khamm apm so it wasn't so mind-numbingly boring to do.
I would love to see a distinction between the GL and FT. Both are very good at killing both structures and lifeforms not a lot of skill involved.
Ideas-
GL: a sticky grenade launcher that has a slower rate of fire but bigger clip. Secondary fire detonates all grenades. (You could make the detonation require LOS, but that may be a bit much. It would fix the blind firing around obstacles though.)
FT: max range takes a few seconds to build up and add self damage if you do not control your stream. Remove BB burning and give that to the welder. Maybe tweak the lifeform damage?
I love 250. I do miss the 2 CC advance tech though. Aliens can only amass 3 bio levels with one hive which is the same as 249 in which we see the same abilities unlocked after each hive drop. It would be nice if RTs added .25 bio level. It would allow you to get leap off 1 hive 4 rts.
I would love to see a distinction between the GL and FT. Both are very good at killing both structures and lifeforms not a lot of skill involved.
Ideas-
GL: a sticky grenade launcher that has a slower rate of fire but bigger clip. Secondary fire detonates all grenades. (You could make the detonation require LOS, but that may be a bit much. It would fix the blind firing around obstacles though.)
FT: max range takes a few seconds to build up and add self damage if you do not control your stream. Remove BB burning and give that to the welder. Maybe tweak the lifeform damage?
I love 250. I do miss the 2 CC advance tech though. Aliens can only amass 3 bio levels with one hive which is the same as 249 in which we see the same abilities unlocked after each hive drop. It would be nice if RTs added .25 bio level. It would allow you to get leap off 1 hive 4 rts.
The sticky bombs with secondary fire detonation idea would probably make the gl too strong a weapon against players, as in being able to boobytrap areas and destroy higher lifeforms when they pass through. At least now when somebody spams grenades you'll only take damage from one grenade at a time, and have some time to get out of the blast radius anyway.
Maybe reducing the blast range/decreasing blast range damage would make blind gl spamming less effective and force people to aim their shots more carefully?
Maybe reducing the blast range/decreasing blast range damage would make blind gl spamming less effective and force people to aim their shots more carefully?
Reduce splash damage and increase damage on a direct hit maybe?
Reduce splash damage and increase damage on a direct hit maybe?
That seems like making the GL even more of an anti-player weapon.
I think the skill in GL should be to avoid getting your gibblets processed for food. Just apply a multiplier for players, like 0.5 or something, so that the GL can simultaneously be good at destroying buildings and bad at killing players.
Reduce splash damage and increase damage on a direct hit maybe?
That seems like making the GL even more of an anti-player weapon.
I think the skill in GL should be to avoid getting your gibblets processed for food. Just apply a multiplier for players, like 0.5 or something, so that the GL can simultaneously be good at destroying buildings and bad at killing players.
How was it handled in NS?
Only if the damage is targeted towards players. I agree the GL should be an anti structure weapon, but it should still hurt aliens; and hurt more on a direct hit than splash. If it does very poor damage to life forms it will still be relegated to non use.
I'd like to see the TF2 treatment for the GL, that is shots which don't hit anything and detonate on a timer deal less damage. Currently one of the scariest things as a fade is knowing that there's randomly spammed undetonated grenades around which will kick your ass if you happen to be blinking past when they go off.
Jump queuing. Hold space while in mid-air, release after touching the ground and start holding on it again. You reach a satisfactory flow with it.
You can do that? how did you find that out? Makes no sense to me...
You're correct that there's no way in hell you'd ever know it exists by playing the game. It's the exact opposite of intuitive and it's a throwback to a quirk in the original Quake.
You know what's intuitive? Just holding down the jump key instead of spamming it. There is no skill in spamming a key. Anything that can be done with a key macro is not skill.
You know what's intuitive? Just holding down the fire key instead of spamming it. There is no skill in spamming a key. Why can't the game only fire when I move my mouse over an enemy while I hold down M1?. Why do we keep having to spam M1, especially with the pistol? Why can't we just hold it down ffs.
Reductio ad absurdum FTW.
Best reply, said no one ever. Sarcastic and unintelligent.
You do realize your marine weapon is an automatic, yet I don't hear anyone saying it should be semi-auto because "it requires skill".
Skill comes from intelligent play, not mechanics that can be performed without any thought.
Wrong. Skill comes both from intelligent play and the ability to perform the appropriate action at the appropriate time. Your pistol is not automatic. You have to both aim and time your shots, along with positioning yourself intelligently both in the macro and micro senses. There is no substantive difference between the old movement and the new movement. There is no more or less skill involved in SS/Jump and Blink/Jump, and yet both require you to press your jump key to maintain the momentum. Furthermore, these mechanics don't require 'no thought:' especially once you put them into the combat situation. Granted, it's not the most mentally challenging thing in the world, and once you've learned the mechanics (so very many people so far have not...), it can become second nature, but this is not the same as 'requires no skill.' At some level, perfect positioning requires 'no skill' by your definition, as it can be done without any thought by highly experienced and skilful players with about the same level of effort required as the movement mechanics... Guess what, what's because they're highly experienced and skilful players, and this separates them from average Joe pubber.
What you will hear about the pistol is a set of arguments around whether or not it should be automatic. On these forums, many people have made the argument that they want to keep the pistol as it is. It does require more skill to shoot fast and on target, without question. For this discussion, we can leave aside the controversy surrounding scripts and macros.
My comment above was designed to show how ridiculous your argument is but reducing it to an absurd extreme. It was indeed sarcastic and required very little intelligence to write: a level I deemed appropriate to point out the glaring holes in your argument. Evidently I was wrong about the level required, so have elaborated in this post, which I trust you will find sufficiently clear to now understand why your argument is wholly wrong.
A better response in tone, but still just as empty: no facts and absolutely zero retorts to my points. I reply in kind and ignore any and all of your non-sequiturs.
I can give you automatic pistol, and you'll still play at the same level. I can give you automatic jump, yet your Fade play will still be at the same level. If this is true (and I say it is), than the skill in play lies elsewhere -- smarter tactics, team play, et all. Unintuitive and frustrating interfaces have no value in gameplay.
You, also, completely missed the point that Fade was made way easier to play, yet most everyone still sucks at it. More proof that my above tenets must be true.
._.
Then feel free to use reasoning and logic to recommend improvements?
Where ? In the sewlek beta bla bla ? Participating in a unorganised discussion about details feels like spitting in the sea.
Even this very thread, which was about general direction and not about details is turning into the same nerf this, change that, remove this, bring back that.
Be sure I don't blame or ain't pissed after anyone, it's just the way things are, or at least look to me.
An open unique discussion is not collaborative constructive work, it's just babel tower.
How can you implement logic in this chaos ? It's like a dinner, with cross conversations everywhere.
>> I don't find the current state of the game 'acceptable.'
>> I don't want to waste my time trying to contribute to a solution.
._.
There are other ways you can deliver your ideas to the devs. Add sewlek on steam and tell him... Send a well-written PM... Create a new post with your idea.
Whilst I haven't had the game installed since 250. I occasionally come by to see what's up.
Interesting to note that 250 has done nothing to retain old/new players. Steamgraph shows that today the hangover of the steam sale is over. NS2 dropped out of the Top 100 games by a margin of 200~. Timing a steam sale with a major patch change obviously didn't help new or old players stick with the game.
Not to mention you can often find that swell chap sewlek ON A BETA SERVER and test and provide feedback right to him. There are other means than the thread.
@joshhh : I see your point, get involved or shut up. I do usually shut up because UWE never disapointed me. I open my mouth there because this one if the very first release (since 2003) that leaves me confused. Let's hope I'll get over it.
@Ironhorse : Your nick absolutely fits you tight. You are a hard working, straight, reliable and positive son of a gun. I wish you best of luck and success ;-)
Whilst I haven't had the game installed since 250. I occasionally come by to see what's up.
Interesting to note that 250 has done nothing to retain old/new players. Steamgraph shows that today the hangover of the steam sale is over. NS2 dropped out of the Top 100 games by a margin of 200~. Timing a steam sale with a major patch change obviously didn't help new or old players stick with the game.
@Ironhorse : Your nick absolutely fits you tight. You are a hard working, straight, reliable and positive son of a gun. I wish you best of luck and success ;-)
You're making me blush!
:-P
Thank you for the kind words
I remember back in the Betas people complaining about the game devolving from NS1. Now that we're on the right track to an NS1 feel, it's the other way around.
I remember back in the Betas people complaining about the game devolving from NS1. Now that we're on the right track to an NS1 feel, it's the other way around.
That's just probably the player base having changed from a having a majority of NS1 veterans to having a majority of people only or mostly having played NS2.
Comments
The stupidity of this comment is remarkable... I'm seriously hoping you're a troll.
You do realize there is a reason for everything you are complaining about right? GL and FT were buffed to give marines more mid/end game options than just the unchanging SG/JP combo. Exos are now really weak even with armor, (although the 8 exo engame of 12v12 servers is still a problem.) The new fade is extremely superior when it comes to control over movement. I feel you just might be doing it wrong. Drifter building was added to increase the Khamm apm so it wasn't so mind-numbingly boring to do.
tl;dr 250 changes were all justified.
tl;dr : Whatever, I don't like the resulting feel and gameplay at the moment
Acceptable ?
Then feel free to use reasoning and logic to recommend improvements?
Ideas-
GL: a sticky grenade launcher that has a slower rate of fire but bigger clip. Secondary fire detonates all grenades. (You could make the detonation require LOS, but that may be a bit much. It would fix the blind firing around obstacles though.)
FT: max range takes a few seconds to build up and add self damage if you do not control your stream. Remove BB burning and give that to the welder. Maybe tweak the lifeform damage?
I love 250. I do miss the 2 CC advance tech though. Aliens can only amass 3 bio levels with one hive which is the same as 249 in which we see the same abilities unlocked after each hive drop. It would be nice if RTs added .25 bio level. It would allow you to get leap off 1 hive 4 rts.
The sticky bombs with secondary fire detonation idea would probably make the gl too strong a weapon against players, as in being able to boobytrap areas and destroy higher lifeforms when they pass through. At least now when somebody spams grenades you'll only take damage from one grenade at a time, and have some time to get out of the blast radius anyway.
Maybe reducing the blast range/decreasing blast range damage would make blind gl spamming less effective and force people to aim their shots more carefully?
Reduce splash damage and increase damage on a direct hit maybe?
That seems like making the GL even more of an anti-player weapon.
I think the skill in GL should be to avoid getting your gibblets processed for food. Just apply a multiplier for players, like 0.5 or something, so that the GL can simultaneously be good at destroying buildings and bad at killing players.
How was it handled in NS?
Only if the damage is targeted towards players. I agree the GL should be an anti structure weapon, but it should still hurt aliens; and hurt more on a direct hit than splash. If it does very poor damage to life forms it will still be relegated to non use.
It was mostly just useless
edit: And everyone was ok with that.
A better response in tone, but still just as empty: no facts and absolutely zero retorts to my points. I reply in kind and ignore any and all of your non-sequiturs.
I can give you automatic pistol, and you'll still play at the same level. I can give you automatic jump, yet your Fade play will still be at the same level. If this is true (and I say it is), than the skill in play lies elsewhere -- smarter tactics, team play, et all. Unintuitive and frustrating interfaces have no value in gameplay.
You, also, completely missed the point that Fade was made way easier to play, yet most everyone still sucks at it. More proof that my above tenets must be true.
Where ? In the sewlek beta bla bla ? Participating in a unorganised discussion about details feels like spitting in the sea.
Even this very thread, which was about general direction and not about details is turning into the same nerf this, change that, remove this, bring back that.
Be sure I don't blame or ain't pissed after anyone, it's just the way things are, or at least look to me.
An open unique discussion is not collaborative constructive work, it's just babel tower.
How can you implement logic in this chaos ? It's like a dinner, with cross conversations everywhere.
>> I don't want to waste my time trying to contribute to a solution.
._.
There are other ways you can deliver your ideas to the devs. Add sewlek on steam and tell him... Send a well-written PM... Create a new post with your idea.
All that matters is @sewlek says he reads every post.
So if an "organized discussion" is what you seek, instead of him just reading your feedback, make a thread that aims for that.
Interesting to note that 250 has done nothing to retain old/new players. Steamgraph shows that today the hangover of the steam sale is over. NS2 dropped out of the Top 100 games by a margin of 200~. Timing a steam sale with a major patch change obviously didn't help new or old players stick with the game.
@Ironhorse : Your nick absolutely fits you tight. You are a hard working, straight, reliable and positive son of a gun. I wish you best of luck and success ;-)
I wish UWE would comment on 250 killing the game.
yeah just noticed that and fixed it.
hope there are fancy charts
I could use another laugh
http://unknownworlds.com/ns2/natural-selection-2-balance/
:-P
Thank you for the kind words
That's just probably the player base having changed from a having a majority of NS1 veterans to having a majority of people only or mostly having played NS2.