They haven't given a reason ever. What I find completely absurd is how huze's mod wasn't integrated into vanilla. Here is a guy who has done SO much for NS over the years, and even has his own badge group: Click Here, and yet his great vision mod was seemingly completely ignored for this awful awful eye-destroying garbage we've been left with...
@joshhh As you know, those are not permitted in the ENSL. That particular mod you linked to doesn't really feel right - to me, at least. Plus it's useless to get used to something you can use in a pub that you can't in a comp game.
Just because it's a long time since they changed it, that doesn't make it okay. Reversion or alteration or addition, I don't care, but it NEEDS to change from what we have now, and the 17 pages of this thread so far tend to agree with that assertion, even if there are a few people who don't care one way or the other.
I am not sure where Zefram stands on AV but, yes I do know they are not allowed. Maybe it will be allowed next season.
I do think the current AV isn't in a good place but I do not like most recommendations for what people want. The old style of AV was a crutch. That's probably why most players' skulking was trash after the change, including mine for a while. If the devs can find a good balanced AV that doesn't light marines up like a giant homing beacon 100% of the time, I would be all for it.
I am not sure where Zefram stands on AV but, yes I do know they are not allowed. Maybe it will be allowed next season.
I do think the current AV isn't in a good place but I do not like most recommendations for what people want. The old style of AV was a crutch. That's probably why most players' skulking was trash after the change, including mine for a while. If the devs can find a good balanced AV that doesn't light marines up like a giant homing beacon 100% of the time, I would be all for it.
part of the reason I liked the old AV was because it decreases the clutterer on screen. but im from a different school than a lot of people. I'd be happy biting and shooting geometric blocks. I'd bottom out graphics settings if it gave me 5 fps.
I am not sure where Zefram stands on AV but, yes I do know they are not allowed. Maybe it will be allowed next season.
I do think the current AV isn't in a good place but I do not like most recommendations for what people want. The old style of AV was a crutch. That's probably why most players' skulking was trash after the change, including mine for a while. If the devs can find a good balanced AV that doesn't light marines up like a giant homing beacon 100% of the time, I would be all for it.
part of the reason I liked the old AV was because it decreases the clutterer on screen. but im from a different school than a lot of people. I'd be happy biting and shooting geometric blocks. I'd bottom out graphics settings if it gave me 5 fps.
I know what you mean. I really miss old AV. It was so clean
They haven't given a reason ever. What I find completely absurd is how huze's mod wasn't integrated into vanilla. Here is a guy who has done SO much for NS over the years, and even has his own badge group: Click Here, and yet his great vision mod was seemingly completely ignored for this awful awful eye-destroying garbage we've been left with...
That website is owned and maintained by me. UWE serves their badges from their own server. That being said, my mod is pretty great :P
I just want @gliss vision back, and one that works and isn't banned by every server
Most AV mods are created equal. If gliss vision worked, most of them will. If someone has a link to gliss vision I can probably update it to the new shader format, it's not complicated.
Come on guys give us something here. New av is garbage, can we have the option to revert back?
At least a reason why you changed it?
Why do you think you can demand a reason? Do you work for UWE? Do you have shares in the company? They make the choices and I don't see why they need to explain it. If your copy of the game wasn't working then I'd understand you demanding a fix but come on, do you really think they should listen to some guy on a forum calling a feature of their game "garbage" in a totally non-constructive manner?
Come on guys give us something here. New av is garbage, can we have the option to revert back?
At least a reason why you changed it?
Why do you think you can demand a reason? Do you work for UWE? Do you have shares in the company? They make the choices and I don't see why they need to explain it. If your copy of the game wasn't working then I'd understand you demanding a fix but come on, do you really think they should listen to some guy on a forum calling a feature of their game "garbage" in a totally non-constructive manner?
Aside from being a paying customer, and financial supporter of UWE directly, he's also very far from alone, as evidenced by this seventeen page thread largely populated with people of the same mind.
Being constructive would be better, I agree, but his argument is still a valid one nonetheless.
Come on guys give us something here. New av is garbage, can we have the option to revert back?
At least a reason why you changed it?
Why do you think you can demand a reason? Do you work for UWE? Do you have shares in the company? They make the choices and I don't see why they need to explain it. If your copy of the game wasn't working then I'd understand you demanding a fix but come on, do you really think they should listen to some guy on a forum calling a feature of their game "garbage" in a totally non-constructive manner?
Probably worth pointing out that we're up to 17 pages of people complaining and debating on the subject so it might not be a completely unreasonable request.
Also Forlorn, you do realize theres a fine line between being supportive and blind fanboyism. If you look behind you with a strong pair of binoculars, you might still see that line. Maybe you could tone it down just a tiny little bit. Don't take it as a personal attack. Its just that sometimes, for me at least, your lack of objectivity is making it hard to take anything you say seriously.
Probably worth pointing out that we're up to 17 pages of people complaining and debating on the subject so it might not be a completely unreasonable request.
Also Forlorn, you do realize theres a fine line between being supportive and blind fanboyism. If you look behind you with a strong pair of binoculars, you might still see that line. Maybe you could tone it down just a tiny little bit. Don't take it as a personal attack. Its just that sometimes, for me at least, your lack of objectivity is making it hard to take anything you say seriously.
17 pages, yes. Of agreement, no. I am not being supportive here, I am trying to point out that the poster I quoted was making demands of a business that has no need to listen to a forum whine. In no point in my post did I disagree that Alien Vision in it's current state is bad. I think you need to stop making assumptions and read the words.
I am a fan or I wouldn't be here. Regarding previous posts, you'll see my previous posts regarding donating to the World Championships attempted to justify my reasoning for my backing it and also why I changed my mind from not supporting it in the beginning, when I was angry about it. That is not blind fanboy-ism. I was also being overly enthusiastic in hope that it might rub off and convince some of the miserable buggers on this forum, it might actually be fun.
Incidentally, the only thread with comparable views (other than 2 necro'd threads from Flayra from the beta time) is the one about strafe jump needing to go, and that's currently on page 4 of this forum. This is a hot topic that a lot of people care about, and it deserves attention that currently it simply isn't getting from UWE. It's patently obvious why this breeds frustration.
Come on guys give us something here. New av is garbage, can we have the option to revert back?
At least a reason why you changed it?
Why do you think you can demand a reason? Do you work for UWE? Do you have shares in the company? They make the choices and I don't see why they need to explain it. If your copy of the game wasn't working then I'd understand you demanding a fix but come on, do you really think they should listen to some guy on a forum calling a feature of their game "garbage" in a totally non-constructive manner?
I'm asking because they never once even acknowledged the change, and its a big one that no one asked for, and by and large most people agree it was a horrendous change. Sorry I used such "strong language" as garbage. But yes it does get frustrating when a company who consistently says they're all about the community refuses to address such basic things as this. I still haven't heard anything about new commander bindings, and we're still hard locked to 32 bindings, and they seem to continue to ignore server issues which are a massive problem.
and not to mention when they offered the deluxe upgrade I upgraded because I payed like 10 dollars for the game and had 100 hours and felt it was the right thing to do to support them, and then when reinforced came out I gave them another 20 because I really do believe in their product. I really don't think a forum post is asking too much, although being a paying customer really should be enough. It's a fantastic game, and by and large I've agreed with everything they've done. But then when they make such a massive change as this, refuse to acknowledge it and 2 months later still have said nothing its annoying to say the least. It's not like we're even asking for a lot, just whitelist one or two of the more common av mods, or just give the option to switch back to the old one. It is seriously not a lot of work.
But there is a difference between adapting to a change and believing it was for the better. I am pretty sure most have already adapted or sought out an alternative AV to use when servers allow it. What I am also sure of is after reading this tread most people still find the new AV absolutely terrible and useless. Something that makes the game worse not better and something that should be changed.
In the end it seems aesthetics so players can look at the new models they purchased took priority over a functional alien vision which worked very well for game play which is quite ridiculous considering the degree it changed the game.
At the very least we should have somthing like what minimal alien vision does to use for actual AV. This gives players the abiltiy to use the current alien'S vision to see the pretty models and at the same time allow actual alien vision to be functional and benefit the field player.
Just because we can play with something, doesn't mean we want to.
As for why we feel we have a right? It's many of us bought this as alpha/beta, where we were asked to give feedback. Now that it's released you may argue that they are not looking for feedback, but then they shouldn't release crap builds saying "we needed a larger testing group" ...
UWE has commented on many threads and historically been open, but they have not commented on this thread. That is not an accident and must be intentional. As such one can conclude that there reasons would be far from popular (aesthetics>game play)...
I have no problem with current AV, personally. I have it on 100% of time when playing alien but my monitor and eyesight aren't really the best so it's nothing but a personal view, nothing else.
But the lack of personal customisation ingame for HUD settings is really frustrating. Why have mods in the game, if everything made by the community to improve gameplay can't be used unless the server you're on is using it as well? It's a backwards system, alongside with crosshairs needing to be "enabled" as mods instead of simple commands just makes no sense to me.
The current alien vision is bad. It was created by a person who lacks basic knowledge about colors, human vision, contrast, and stuff every graphics designer should know. It's aggravating and it hurts the eyes. I have seen mods out there that are much, much better.
I understand the notion of bringing disadvantages to AV so that normal vision is also useful for something, but creating a color scheme that is painful to look at is just wrong. Other balancing tools should have been used.
About the practicality of it. New alien vision is an annoyance now. When the lights are out and i turn it on (with a *sigh*) i can't wait to turn it off.
That emotion can't be what the devs are after. It should aid vision, not annoy you to turn it off.
About the practicality of it. New alien vision is an annoyance now. When the lights are out and i turn it on (with a *sigh*) i can't wait to turn it off.
That emotion can't be what the devs are after. It should aid vision, not annoy you to turn it off.
I don't even bother turning it on when the lights go out, unless I'm not 100% sure where I am in the room. It offers no benefit to running around in the dark. At least in the dark, the normal vision shows marines up nice and bright without searing your retinas. There are a lot of problems with normal vision, too, which is why this desperately needs work.
About the practicality of it. New alien vision is an annoyance now. When the lights are out and i turn it on (with a *sigh*) i can't wait to turn it off.
That emotion can't be what the devs are after. It should aid vision, not annoy you to turn it off.
I don't even bother turning it on when the lights go out, unless I'm not 100% sure where I am in the room. It offers no benefit to running around in the dark. At least in the dark, the normal vision shows marines up nice and bright without searing your retinas. There are a lot of problems with normal vision, too, which is why this desperately needs work.
About the practicality of it. New alien vision is an annoyance now. When the lights are out and i turn it on (with a *sigh*) i can't wait to turn it off.
That emotion can't be what the devs are after. It should aid vision, not annoy you to turn it off.
I don't even bother turning it on when the lights go out, unless I'm not 100% sure where I am in the room. It offers no benefit to running around in the dark. At least in the dark, the normal vision shows marines up nice and bright without searing your retinas. There are a lot of problems with normal vision, too, which is why this desperately needs work.
Yeah, and it is so much to ask I just wanna feel like the predator?
Before new AV, i never turn it off.
After new AV, i never turn it on.
But honestly, i rather like seeing the nice graphic of the game that square-shaped room every time.
Soooooo... New AV is bad, but having to play without is a good thing
Comments
*darth vader in revenge of the sith style.
@uwe
Come on guys give us something here. New av is garbage, can we have the option to revert back?
At least a reason why you changed it?
they haven't given a reason in 2 months?...
they should make AV as much as important as the default vision. For example with more darkness...
If you really haven't been able to adapt yet... there are AV mods that pass consistency checking.
i.e. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=177338785
I honestly doubt they will revert the vision back.
._.
Just because it's a long time since they changed it, that doesn't make it okay. Reversion or alteration or addition, I don't care, but it NEEDS to change from what we have now, and the 17 pages of this thread so far tend to agree with that assertion, even if there are a few people who don't care one way or the other.
I do think the current AV isn't in a good place but I do not like most recommendations for what people want. The old style of AV was a crutch. That's probably why most players' skulking was trash after the change, including mine for a while. If the devs can find a good balanced AV that doesn't light marines up like a giant homing beacon 100% of the time, I would be all for it.
This also does not pass consistency checking on all servers.
It works about half the time.
part of the reason I liked the old AV was because it decreases the clutterer on screen. but im from a different school than a lot of people. I'd be happy biting and shooting geometric blocks. I'd bottom out graphics settings if it gave me 5 fps.
I know what you mean. I really miss old AV. It was so clean
It also reminded me of cpma so theres that
Most AV mods are created equal. If gliss vision worked, most of them will. If someone has a link to gliss vision I can probably update it to the new shader format, it's not complicated.
Why do you think you can demand a reason? Do you work for UWE? Do you have shares in the company? They make the choices and I don't see why they need to explain it. If your copy of the game wasn't working then I'd understand you demanding a fix but come on, do you really think they should listen to some guy on a forum calling a feature of their game "garbage" in a totally non-constructive manner?
Aside from being a paying customer, and financial supporter of UWE directly, he's also very far from alone, as evidenced by this seventeen page thread largely populated with people of the same mind.
Being constructive would be better, I agree, but his argument is still a valid one nonetheless.
Probably worth pointing out that we're up to 17 pages of people complaining and debating on the subject so it might not be a completely unreasonable request.
Also Forlorn, you do realize theres a fine line between being supportive and blind fanboyism. If you look behind you with a strong pair of binoculars, you might still see that line. Maybe you could tone it down just a tiny little bit. Don't take it as a personal attack. Its just that sometimes, for me at least, your lack of objectivity is making it hard to take anything you say seriously.
17 pages, yes. Of agreement, no. I am not being supportive here, I am trying to point out that the poster I quoted was making demands of a business that has no need to listen to a forum whine. In no point in my post did I disagree that Alien Vision in it's current state is bad. I think you need to stop making assumptions and read the words.
I am a fan or I wouldn't be here. Regarding previous posts, you'll see my previous posts regarding donating to the World Championships attempted to justify my reasoning for my backing it and also why I changed my mind from not supporting it in the beginning, when I was angry about it. That is not blind fanboy-ism. I was also being overly enthusiastic in hope that it might rub off and convince some of the miserable buggers on this forum, it might actually be fun.
Also, why should all posts have an objective?
I'm asking because they never once even acknowledged the change, and its a big one that no one asked for, and by and large most people agree it was a horrendous change. Sorry I used such "strong language" as garbage. But yes it does get frustrating when a company who consistently says they're all about the community refuses to address such basic things as this. I still haven't heard anything about new commander bindings, and we're still hard locked to 32 bindings, and they seem to continue to ignore server issues which are a massive problem.
and not to mention when they offered the deluxe upgrade I upgraded because I payed like 10 dollars for the game and had 100 hours and felt it was the right thing to do to support them, and then when reinforced came out I gave them another 20 because I really do believe in their product. I really don't think a forum post is asking too much, although being a paying customer really should be enough. It's a fantastic game, and by and large I've agreed with everything they've done. But then when they make such a massive change as this, refuse to acknowledge it and 2 months later still have said nothing its annoying to say the least. It's not like we're even asking for a lot, just whitelist one or two of the more common av mods, or just give the option to switch back to the old one. It is seriously not a lot of work.
But there is a difference between adapting to a change and believing it was for the better. I am pretty sure most have already adapted or sought out an alternative AV to use when servers allow it. What I am also sure of is after reading this tread most people still find the new AV absolutely terrible and useless. Something that makes the game worse not better and something that should be changed.
In the end it seems aesthetics so players can look at the new models they purchased took priority over a functional alien vision which worked very well for game play which is quite ridiculous considering the degree it changed the game.
At the very least we should have somthing like what minimal alien vision does to use for actual AV. This gives players the abiltiy to use the current alien'S vision to see the pretty models and at the same time allow actual alien vision to be functional and benefit the field player.
As for why we feel we have a right? It's many of us bought this as alpha/beta, where we were asked to give feedback. Now that it's released you may argue that they are not looking for feedback, but then they shouldn't release crap builds saying "we needed a larger testing group" ...
UWE has commented on many threads and historically been open, but they have not commented on this thread. That is not an accident and must be intentional. As such one can conclude that there reasons would be far from popular (aesthetics>game play)...
So yes this frustrates me...
But the lack of personal customisation ingame for HUD settings is really frustrating. Why have mods in the game, if everything made by the community to improve gameplay can't be used unless the server you're on is using it as well? It's a backwards system, alongside with crosshairs needing to be "enabled" as mods instead of simple commands just makes no sense to me.
I understand the notion of bringing disadvantages to AV so that normal vision is also useful for something, but creating a color scheme that is painful to look at is just wrong. Other balancing tools should have been used.
That emotion can't be what the devs are after. It should aid vision, not annoy you to turn it off.
I don't even bother turning it on when the lights go out, unless I'm not 100% sure where I am in the room. It offers no benefit to running around in the dark. At least in the dark, the normal vision shows marines up nice and bright without searing your retinas. There are a lot of problems with normal vision, too, which is why this desperately needs work.
Yeah, and it is so much to ask I just wanna feel like the predator?
After new AV, i never turn it on.
But honestly, i rather like seeing the nice graphic of the game that square-shaped room every time.
Soooooo... New AV is bad, but having to play without is a good thing