My skill level is now 115. I keep starting servers at home for my mod pg, and run around killing myself through rocket jumps, seems it is damaging my skill ability.
Funny to see it change and I haven't played vanilla NS2 yet
How could that happen? It should not be possible, only vanilla gameplay NS2 servers are included in the stats.
Loading mod via -game => modlist 0 => hive gets enabled for server
Not running workshop mods is not enough, the server needs to be whitelisted as well.
You are just overthinking it @acedude. All of those special situations are merely paths to victory (or failure). A players ability to plan and implement such strategies impacts his winrate, including his ability to motivate his team to follow his plan.
You may have a point as far as the assymetric teams (aliens vs marines not players). If someone plays aliens mainly they will end up with a higher rating than someone who plays both teams evenly or mains marines. But then that will also mean they are matched against players who have a higher rating and therefor a higher chance to create an even game for the marine side, so the numbers might not be as indicative of true skill but the result in matchmaking will be more balanced matches.
You are just overthinking it @acedude. All of those special situations are merely paths to victory (or failure). A players ability to plan and implement such strategies impacts his winrate, including his ability to motivate his team to follow his plan.
You may have a point as far as the assymetric teams (aliens vs marines not players). If someone plays aliens mainly they will end up with a higher rating than someone who plays both teams evenly or mains marines. But then that will also mean they are matched against players who have a higher rating and therefor a higher chance to create an even game for the marine side, so the numbers might not be as indicative of true skill but the result in matchmaking will be more balanced matches.
What if I'm playing on a server where noone listens to my orders as a commander/field commander? This happens very often. You're also saying that skill should be highly dependent on the rest of the team. Bad idea.
Matchmaking... hmm... we're not talking about matchmaking yet.
You are just overthinking it @acedude. All of those special situations are merely paths to victory (or failure). A players ability to plan and implement such strategies impacts his winrate, including his ability to motivate his team to follow his plan.
You may have a point as far as the assymetric teams (aliens vs marines not players). If someone plays aliens mainly they will end up with a higher rating than someone who plays both teams evenly or mains marines. But then that will also mean they are matched against players who have a higher rating and therefor a higher chance to create an even game for the marine side, so the numbers might not be as indicative of true skill but the result in matchmaking will be more balanced matches.
What if I'm playing on a server where noone listens to my orders as a commander/field commander? This happens very often. You're also saying that skill should be highly dependent on the rest of the team. Bad idea.
Matchmaking... hmm... we're not talking about matchmaking yet.
It balances out with the games that they do listen, you don't need to win every single game to come out on top (and the better you are at convincing them the more often you will win). If your team is especially bad it won't even hurt your rating to lose because you will be far below the rating of the opponent team... if you are not then you should be able to win pretty much on your own ability.
Anyway I forget who (maybe hugh?) but matchmaking was officially confirmed in the works for "medium term". So we are talking about it and I figure it goes without saying that any rating system will be used to contribute towards that goal when the time comes. Until then it is of only minimal use anyway, more experimental and in-theory.
Do I believe matchmaking is coming? This looks exactly like it's the "first stage" at the "end of 2013" he promised. I figure the only way it won't be coming is if you never figure out a system for rating players that is accurate enough to match by. Since I am convinced that my way is right I don't really see that being a problem, only a matter of time.
Figured you guys would want to hear about it. I thought it was a bit odd to make the stats public much less right in your face on the main menu. I think it might be a nice touch to add a feature to hive that allows a user to set their own stats to be private and only visible to themselves and UWE. Even BF4 allows you to set your profile to be visible only to friends and in fact is set that way by default I believe.
@Acedude if matchmaking is not ever coming, why are you wasting your time with ranking and stats? That adds absolutely nothing to ns2 in the absence of matchmaking, indeed it actually detracts from our game as I've described before in this thread.
I'll assume that this is all in preparation for matchmaking (and if it isn't please for God's sake put an end to this nonsense!).
The team make up changes every game, every server, every day. The effect of that is to average out the effect of the team on a player's individual rating. Honestly it makes no sense to come up with more and more elaborate algorithms to calculate skill. The objective of the game is to win, so if a player is good, their team will win on average more often than if a player is bad. The power of statistics is FAR greater than any algorithm you care to dream up, and also much less prone to errors or abuse. It does require the player to play a decent number of games, but that's hardly a deal breaker.
The simplicity of a solution is as important as its accuracy when fitting real world data. You can create a ridiculous algorithm to describe a set of points but if the true function is actually a straight line through the origin, then all your algorithm does is fit the error for that specific set of points only. It's called overfitting and it's a big problem in maximum liklihood refinement, which is in essence what you want to do here.
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
I dont know the long term plans of this, but i'm pretty certain something like skill based random teams (which is not match making) will probably come. Also the server browser already shows the skill level of a server. This has to be improved but will ultimatively help to keep similarly skilled players on the same servers. The server skill level should be part of the skill level calculation.
Well the skill bar goes from 1 to 999 I think (confirm with the skill filter). So if you have 333 skill, and a server has a 1/3 full bar, it's your skill level.
Yeah, a server will NEVER have over 500 anyway. It's hard to get over 500 yourself, especially since scrims knock it down, and only people that scrim can get over 500 anyway (I know this feel). But an average of an entire server being above 500? LOL
Yeah, a server will NEVER have over 500 anyway. It's hard to get over 500 yourself, especially since scrims knock it down, and only people that scrim can get over 500 anyway (I know this feel). But an average of an entire server being above 500? LOL
It is definitely not true that only people who scrim can get over 500. I'm at 500 myself and I figure a concerted effort at pubstomping could blast me up past 6 and I have never played an organized game of NS2. Point is still true as far as servers are concerned, unless a bunch of the top rated players all happen to join one server it just isn't going to happen naturally
In fact that was so much better I had to go and make a quick mod out of it. It changes the max clamp to 500 (from 1000) and pushes servers that are not fully populated down the list when sorted by skill. Anyone who has ever sorted by skill should see why this is a good thing.
Yeah but I mean, now when you see the browser, not all of the servers have this really tiny bar that basically screams, "yeah, most people that play this game are pretty bad lol". Since it can actually fill up now, or more commonly reach half way or above, people "seem" more skilled. Even if they aren't.
yeah that giant red bar seems pretty intimidating though. but at least it's more meaningful now, also having a lower threshold for player counts does make it nice too. stupid people and their test servers.
Am I alone in thinking it might be neat to see an average skill number when you look at the hive stats? Something for people to compare themselves to, maybe something to work towards or maybe give a small amount of gratification to those above average.
You're leaving out the negative affect of people being seen as "less than average". I don't have an issue with it, but I bet you anything someone does.
You're leaving out the negative affect of people being seen as "less than average". I don't have an issue with it, but I bet you anything someone does.
incidentally, the vast majority will be below average. go with median instead if you want a truer "average" im assuming you got the small community of 1500 hr players thtown into the mix.
To give the player a good idea about what their random looking skill number actually means percentile ranking is the way to go, excluding players with less than an hours playtime last two weeks, or something like that, from the ranking. Presenting that number alone is probably more useful than the skill number itself.
What if I'm playing on a server where noone listens to my orders as a commander/field commander? This happens very often. You're also saying that skill should be highly dependent on the rest of the team. Bad idea.
Matchmaking... hmm... we're not talking about matchmaking yet.
How will Elo work any better for commanders than for groundplayers when both have the same team reliance issue?
What if I'm playing on a server where noone listens to my orders as a commander/field commander? This happens very often. You're also saying that skill should be highly dependent on the rest of the team. Bad idea.
Matchmaking... hmm... we're not talking about matchmaking yet.
How will Elo work any better for commanders than for groundplayers when both have the same team reliance issue?
1) yes
2) it should work, they both have the same team reliance issue
Comments
Hah, thanks
PS. I want to implement real, badass Elo rating for Commanders ASAP. No idea when, but as soon as I finish other big tasks I'm working on.
Not running workshop mods is not enough, the server needs to be whitelisted as well.
You may have a point as far as the assymetric teams (aliens vs marines not players). If someone plays aliens mainly they will end up with a higher rating than someone who plays both teams evenly or mains marines. But then that will also mean they are matched against players who have a higher rating and therefor a higher chance to create an even game for the marine side, so the numbers might not be as indicative of true skill but the result in matchmaking will be more balanced matches.
What if I'm playing on a server where noone listens to my orders as a commander/field commander? This happens very often. You're also saying that skill should be highly dependent on the rest of the team. Bad idea.
Matchmaking... hmm... we're not talking about matchmaking yet.
It balances out with the games that they do listen, you don't need to win every single game to come out on top (and the better you are at convincing them the more often you will win). If your team is especially bad it won't even hurt your rating to lose because you will be far below the rating of the opponent team... if you are not then you should be able to win pretty much on your own ability.
Anyway I forget who (maybe hugh?) but matchmaking was officially confirmed in the works for "medium term". So we are talking about it and I figure it goes without saying that any rating system will be used to contribute towards that goal when the time comes. Until then it is of only minimal use anyway, more experimental and in-theory.
Oh, here's the post:
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2172973#Comment_2172973
I like that part.
You're the man.
Edit: Ok i might got this wrong.
A algorithm rating player actions based on opponents skill each would need heavy logging like ns2stats and hive doesn't do that yet.
Having a multiplyer based on ememies team avg skill rating would be possible but i don't think they do so atm looking at Acedudes posts.
@Iwf: Yes it needs to get whitelisted I know but noone is perfect so if you see a server tricking the hive system help Acedude and report it.
Figured you guys would want to hear about it. I thought it was a bit odd to make the stats public much less right in your face on the main menu. I think it might be a nice touch to add a feature to hive that allows a user to set their own stats to be private and only visible to themselves and UWE. Even BF4 allows you to set your profile to be visible only to friends and in fact is set that way by default I believe.
I'll assume that this is all in preparation for matchmaking (and if it isn't please for God's sake put an end to this nonsense!).
The team make up changes every game, every server, every day. The effect of that is to average out the effect of the team on a player's individual rating. Honestly it makes no sense to come up with more and more elaborate algorithms to calculate skill. The objective of the game is to win, so if a player is good, their team will win on average more often than if a player is bad. The power of statistics is FAR greater than any algorithm you care to dream up, and also much less prone to errors or abuse. It does require the player to play a decent number of games, but that's hardly a deal breaker.
The simplicity of a solution is as important as its accuracy when fitting real world data. You can create a ridiculous algorithm to describe a set of points but if the true function is actually a straight line through the origin, then all your algorithm does is fit the error for that specific set of points only. It's called overfitting and it's a big problem in maximum liklihood refinement, which is in essence what you want to do here.
Ok yeah numeric could be useful.
It is definitely not true that only people who scrim can get over 500. I'm at 500 myself and I figure a concerted effort at pubstomping could blast me up past 6 and I have never played an organized game of NS2. Point is still true as far as servers are concerned, unless a bunch of the top rated players all happen to join one server it just isn't going to happen naturally
In the really rare case the average IS above 500...just leave the bar maxed?
Before/After example
Workshop - Better Menu
This is a good thing :P
incidentally, the vast majority will be below average. go with median instead if you want a truer "average" im assuming you got the small community of 1500 hr players thtown into the mix.
So each player has 2 rankings?
How will Elo work any better for commanders than for groundplayers when both have the same team reliance issue?
1) yes
2) it should work, they both have the same team reliance issue