I may be wrong on this (1.03 apparently changes quite qickly), but it's not as if all aliens would die the second the last hive gets destroyed, and should another one be built, they don't die at all.
That means that there is still a chance of getting back on your feet - of course, if you're a Gorge with no more than 2 RP, chances are you won't be able to initiate the next hive in time.
Everything else, the question how slowly the aliens lose health and so on, are balance questions, which require, you guessed it, testing.
Should you feel bad because you think you've been treated unfairly, see it like this: You quite possibly helped make NS be a better game.
<!--QuoteBegin--H'BNayr+Nov 25 2002, 12:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (H'BNayr @ Nov 25 2002, 12:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ah, but according to <a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/manual/alien_hivesight.html' target='_blank'>the manual</a>, when the Hives disappear, the Kharaa bacterium (nanites are an artificial, robotic creation, not organic, as the Kharaa are) begin to degrade over a period of about 20 hours.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> D'oh. Forgot about that little clip. <sarcasm> So make it a 20-hour timer </sarcasm> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I've noticed a lot of the "lam0r" issues are in the late-game. By that time, just drop the money into jetpacks and scanner sweep everywhere. I've been alone in the end-game before (as a Lerk) - I had regeneration left thanks to some buried DCs. I ate several RTs and was making runs at a hive (Feedwater Control, still don't know the map names off by heart!) when the Marines finally caught me after many minutes. So at least I was <b>trying</b>, and not just hiding ad infinitum.
Scanner sweep costs 1 RP. You can easily cover the map with that. Plaster it everywhere, and hose anything that shows up.
ya that sounds like the best idea, count hives in production as hives (so no auto-killing aliens) and have a time limit, allow a gorge to rebuild a hive if he can.
The game is basically perfect at the 1.02 stage. The more the game is changed, the more people will stop liking it. The only thing that the 1.03 patch should add is a flame thrower for the marines. That's it.
The best possible solution is to leave this world slay feature in for casual play mode. Perhaps increase the time allowed after the last hive is gone to 3 or 5 minutes.
But the most important thing is that this feature is NOT enabled in TOURNAMENT MODE.
Please disable it in tournament mode if it is not already disabled. This would ruin games when you have 2 teams of serious players who are actually serious about getting a hive back up given the chance.
What this boils down too is a bunch of whiny players that don't like "hunting down" the remaining enemy. It's really quite simple since you have flashlights, scanners and motion detetrors. An the aliens can get everywhere on the map.
It might take a whole extra five minutes to perform this and if you can't do it in this time or less, I suggest you quit playing. It just seems kinda silly to change a game/system that works because there are a few impatent people out there.
When this happens while I'm playing, we generally get the commander to give everyone jetpacks, and we just fly around for 2-3 minutes until all the vents have been cleansed. Makes sense, although the hives are gone, you still gotta clean up some mess in that spaceship.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think making a server variable to turn on/off this kind of game behavior would be the easiest and simplest solution that will satisfy everyone. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I really hope this is so.. and even better it should be voted on like in CS where you can vote to enable/disable guns. This seems much more like chickens,lamma,slay, or even matrix where it all depends on the server and admins, but not just how you play. This could really suck.
so here's what I have heard of 1.03
1.standing still for a short amount of time will kill you.. -I guess skulks hiding in a spot or onos cloakingin front of a door is now illegal?? Whats the purpouse of that? it ruins it.
2.If all 3 hives are down, the aliens all die - Well I hope this happens if infinart portals and or CC are down too, because that would just be stupid... Aliens can still make a comeback like this, if they do then it's either a small game or the marines arent very good, so aliens desirve the win.
This sounds really lame. Of course I havent seen a response from flayra here, maybe this stuff isnt true?
I've changed this to not damage players if there is a hive building. Yes, players can stay alive by huddling near def chambers, and that's fine by me (as it will be obvious to enemies nearby that you're there, because you'll be making the healing noise). In any event, this is only in casual mode, not in tourny mode.
With the first client update, maybe I'll change this to put a "sudden death" timer on the screen, so players know there's a time limit before players start being hurt, but I can't do it until then.
As far as doing this for marines, it's much faster and easier (and more fun) for aliens to track down a hiding marine. They can just whizz around the map with adrenaline and leap until the find the poor guy crying in the vent...
<!--QuoteBegin--Flayra+Nov 25 2002, 09:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ Nov 25 2002, 09:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As far as doing this for marines, it's much faster and easier (and more fun) for aliens to track down a hiding marine. They can just whizz around the map with adrenaline and leap until the find the poor guy crying in the vent...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> But isn't that kinda unfair for the alien side then? <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
And it can be fun for the marines to jetpack around and find aliens too even if they are in the vent....
And most importantly of all, the aliens have the ability to rebuild a hive, but the marines can't build a CC! so why wouldn't you make a count down for the marines instead of the aliens, seeing as there is a possibilty for aliens of comeback, but not the marines?
Sorry Flay, with all due respect, I just can't agree with this idea...
Meh, just dont lose your hives and you wont have have to worry about it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Flayra+Nov 25 2002, 09:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ Nov 25 2002, 09:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've changed this to not damage players if there is a hive building. Yes, players can stay alive by huddling near def chambers, and that's fine by me (as it will be obvious to enemies nearby that you're there, because you'll be making the healing noise). In any event, this is only in casual mode, not in tourny mode.
With the first client update, maybe I'll change this to put a "sudden death" timer on the screen, so players know there's a time limit before players start being hurt, but I can't do it until then.
As far as doing this for marines, it's much faster and easier (and more fun) for aliens to track down a hiding marine. They can just whizz around the map with adrenaline and leap until the find the poor guy crying in the vent...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> hrm, what if the aliens rush your hive at the same time as you finish off their CC? The commander drops a CC at the new location, but the aliens get the lone guy/comm chair before any true new base is built.. That sounds like it wouldn't exist in 1.03. The aliens would all "starve" or whatever this new health killing function is before they could kill the marine (skulks don't have many HP). *shrug* I think this topic has become pretty big. And I know this is a huge what if, but it's the same as a "what if they build a sensory chamber first." Rarely happens, rarely works.
I wouldn't get too excited about a feature in a beta. But then again, I don't see anything wrong with letting the devs know that you are vehemently against a feature in a beta. So, whereas letting people know that you absolutely despise this feature does have a constructive element, yelling about how the game is ruined and how mankind now is doomed to a horrible grisly fate because of it is more than a bit over the top.
I don't think this auto-kill feature (or slowly-die feature as it was) is really necessary. I suppose giving it something like a five minute timer would make it a bit better. It would also be very nice if it could be disabled entirely by the server operator.
Aaronvroom vroom der party startahJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7020Members
Let's not forget that sometimes the marines just DON'T CARE if there is nobody left. I've seen games go on a few minutes with a hiding alien, and the marines are either not aware they have even won or don't care, and just go merrily building building building. Half the players on the server should not be held hostage to the whims of one last alien or an ignorant winning team.
Simply do a vote on the losing side and set the threshold high, like 60% or 70%. Of course these features can be configured by the admin right? So admins can choose a timeout or a restart vote threshold...
<!--QuoteBegin--Flayra+Nov 26 2002, 12:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ Nov 26 2002, 12:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've changed this to not damage players if there is a hive building. Yes, players can stay alive by huddling near def chambers, and that's fine by me (as it will be obvious to enemies nearby that you're there, because you'll be making the healing noise). In any event, this is only in casual mode, not in tourny mode.
With the first client update, maybe I'll change this to put a "sudden death" timer on the screen, so players know there's a time limit before players start being hurt, but I can't do it until then.
As far as doing this for marines, it's much faster and easier (and more fun) for aliens to track down a hiding marine. They can just whizz around the map with adrenaline and leap until the find the poor guy crying in the vent...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> He speaks, and thus I am content.
<!--QuoteBegin--Aaron+Nov 26 2002, 03:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Aaron @ Nov 26 2002, 03:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Simply do a vote on the losing side and set the threshold high, like 60% or 70%.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's the best solution I've heard so far <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
This auto die off pisses me off greatly too. We had one game where we lost our hive but we had 2 almost built (within 1 minute), we all died. Sigh.... I enjoy the game, but the auto-die off is a chicken way out. Just put in a vote to end the game, and let dead people vote. One game the marines *wanted* me to stay in the game. They all wanted to hunt me down. It was fun. It ruins a fun portion of the game. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
look! **obscenity**! it is fun hunting down the last alien or marine! and it doesn't take that long if you have skulks, lerks, or jetpacks. if you are a dead team mate it is fun to watch the last alien or marine try to make a comeback even if they lose it's still fun seeing what kind of damage they can do. there is no need for this damn feature. if the player is really being an **obscenity** then his team-mates can kick him to end the game. i've already suggested this many times before. why does nobody listen to me! this pisses me off majorly! do NOT give admins any options. we all know what happened before when they had the option to tinker with everything. OK!?!?!?!?!
but giving average players the option to kick people is even worse, as they are even more stupid than your average server admin. the whole game will degenerate into a retarded discussion about who should be kicked.
so, how long exactly is the sudden death timer now?
<!--QuoteBegin--Twex+Nov 26 2002, 06:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Twex @ Nov 26 2002, 06:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but giving average players the option to kick people is even worse, as they are even more stupid than your average server admin. the whole game will degenerate into a retarded discussion about who should be kicked.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Except that letting people kick vote works wonderfully in other games. So either you're speaking out of ignorance (I didn't say stupidity) or you think that NS players are generally stupider then the players of other games.
I've been kicked from many FPS games. I played them as the designers intended them, defending the stuff that's supposed to be defended. Then the idiots (which make up the majority of the FPS world, make no mistake) go "OMG VOET 2 KICK DA CAMPER!"
Another day I'm really lucky and get a higher-than-average ratio... and the idiots go "OMG VOET 2 KICK DA CHEATOR!"
And I'm certain Mr. NSPlayer would not hesitate to votekick anyone who doesn't fulfill his moronic selfish wishes for HMGs, Jetpacks or welding/healspraying. Naturally any Gorge who deviates from the DMS chamber order also needs to be immediately votekicked by Mr. Supersmart.
Comments
That means that there is still a chance of getting back on your feet - of course, if you're a Gorge with no more than 2 RP, chances are you won't be able to initiate the next hive in time.
Everything else, the question how slowly the aliens lose health and so on, are balance questions, which require, you guessed it, testing.
Should you feel bad because you think you've been treated unfairly, see it like this: You quite possibly helped make NS be a better game.
D'oh. Forgot about that little clip. <sarcasm> So make it a 20-hour timer </sarcasm> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I've noticed a lot of the "lam0r" issues are in the late-game. By that time, just drop the money into jetpacks and scanner sweep everywhere. I've been alone in the end-game before (as a Lerk) - I had regeneration left thanks to some buried DCs. I ate several RTs and was making runs at a hive (Feedwater Control, still don't know the map names off by heart!) when the Marines finally caught me after many minutes. So at least I was <b>trying</b>, and not just hiding ad infinitum.
Scanner sweep costs 1 RP. You can easily cover the map with that. Plaster it everywhere, and hose anything that shows up.
- M4H
How about this?
When the last hive is gone, hives under construction counting as not gone, the aliens would simply appear on the hud of the marines.
Maybe there could be some sort of range to this feature to still allow for comebacks?
Just leave it alone.
But the most important thing is that this feature is NOT enabled in TOURNAMENT MODE.
Please disable it in tournament mode if it is not already disabled. This would ruin games when you have 2 teams of serious players who are actually serious about getting a hive back up given the chance.
It might take a whole extra five minutes to perform this and if you can't do it in this time or less, I suggest you quit playing. It just seems kinda silly to change a game/system that works because there are a few impatent people out there.
Oh well...
Ravlen
so here's what I have heard of 1.03
1.standing still for a short amount of time will kill you.. -I guess skulks hiding in a spot or onos cloakingin front of a door is now illegal?? Whats the purpouse of that? it ruins it.
2.If all 3 hives are down, the aliens all die - Well I hope this happens if infinart portals and or CC are down too, because that would just be stupid... Aliens can still make a comeback like this, if they do then it's either a small game or the marines arent very good, so aliens desirve the win.
This sounds really lame. Of course I havent seen a response from flayra here, maybe this stuff isnt true?
With the first client update, maybe I'll change this to put a "sudden death" timer on the screen, so players know there's a time limit before players start being hurt, but I can't do it until then.
As far as doing this for marines, it's much faster and easier (and more fun) for aliens to track down a hiding marine. They can just whizz around the map with adrenaline and leap until the find the poor guy crying in the vent...
But isn't that kinda unfair for the alien side then? <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
And it can be fun for the marines to jetpack around and find aliens too even if they are in the vent....
And most importantly of all, the aliens have the ability to rebuild a hive, but the marines can't build a CC! so why wouldn't you make a count down for the marines instead of the aliens, seeing as there is a possibilty for aliens of comeback, but not the marines?
Sorry Flay, with all due respect, I just can't agree with this idea...
With the first client update, maybe I'll change this to put a "sudden death" timer on the screen, so players know there's a time limit before players start being hurt, but I can't do it until then.
As far as doing this for marines, it's much faster and easier (and more fun) for aliens to track down a hiding marine. They can just whizz around the map with adrenaline and leap until the find the poor guy crying in the vent...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hrm, what if the aliens rush your hive at the same time as you finish off their CC? The commander drops a CC at the new location, but the aliens get the lone guy/comm chair before any true new base is built.. That sounds like it wouldn't exist in 1.03. The aliens would all "starve" or whatever this new health killing function is before they could kill the marine (skulks don't have many HP). *shrug* I think this topic has become pretty big. And I know this is a huge what if, but it's the same as a "what if they build a sensory chamber first." Rarely happens, rarely works.
I don't think this auto-kill feature (or slowly-die feature as it was) is really necessary. I suppose giving it something like a five minute timer would make it a bit better. It would also be very nice if it could be disabled entirely by the server operator.
Simply do a vote on the losing side and set the threshold high, like 60% or 70%. Of course these features can be configured by the admin right? So admins can choose a timeout or a restart vote threshold...
I sure hope that the unbuilt hives bit is a bug and that it may be extended longer than ten seconds.
Playing Nancy we got rushed, but since they did that we built at two other hives.
And lost.
Cause there was no finished hive.
You cannot imagine how much that makes one angry, pure BS.
With the first client update, maybe I'll change this to put a "sudden death" timer on the screen, so players know there's a time limit before players start being hurt, but I can't do it until then.
As far as doing this for marines, it's much faster and easier (and more fun) for aliens to track down a hiding marine. They can just whizz around the map with adrenaline and leap until the find the poor guy crying in the vent...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He speaks, and thus I am content.
That's the best solution I've heard so far <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
so, how long exactly is the sudden death timer now?
Except that letting people kick vote works wonderfully in other games. So either you're speaking out of ignorance (I didn't say stupidity) or you think that NS players are generally stupider then the players of other games.
Another day I'm really lucky and get a higher-than-average ratio... and the idiots go "OMG VOET 2 KICK DA CHEATOR!"
And I'm certain Mr. NSPlayer would not hesitate to votekick anyone who doesn't fulfill his moronic selfish wishes for HMGs, Jetpacks or welding/healspraying. Naturally any Gorge who deviates from the DMS chamber order also needs to be immediately votekicked by Mr. Supersmart.
Democracy sucks. It's the governance of the mob.