Am I misinformed that uwe meant this game to be very mod friendly, as a nod to the origin of ns1?
Yes they did, that's why it's in open lua.. but they also meant for a smooth experience so they hard-coded the playercount.
Server performance isn't some vague estimate players are making or confusing... Its displayed clearly (server tick rate) with net_stats in the console..
Conclusion : don't run a server if it can't hold 30 ticks. I don't care if it's 4 players or 40. Don't do it.
Well you might as well ditch most of the official multiplay servers then because from what I've experienced they cannot hold a stable 30 tickrate even in normal 12 player games.
Well you might as well ditch most of the official multiplay servers then because from what I've experienced they cannot hold a stable 30 tickrate even in normal 12 player games.
Cannon_FodderAUSBrisbane, AUJoin Date: 2013-06-23Member: 185664Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
Haven't seen UWE officials for about 2 weeks in Australia now :-( Forced to play other games because I can't find any servers to play on (with people I mean).
As to the topic. I tried Wooza out of desperation (no other servers with decent number of people). My impressions as a marine are (I only played for about 15 mintues):
1. higher % of rookies play on this server (I seem more greens than other servers I frequent)
2. no one knows what the hell they are doing - comm can't manage such a large number with any semblance of tactic - so no meds and no ammo. Definitely a you want ammo, build this armory scenario.
3. its funny to see a constant stream of marines going to locker non stop, it was like ants (map was Docking)
4. Being from Australia, my ping of really bad (300-400), but I see many with a green ping sub 100.
5. I quit after it rubber band me for about 1 minute.
Conclusion: each to their own, but definitely more rookies play on this server, with no communications as there are just too many people. Not really recommended for an authentic NS2 experience. But I can see the attraction for Rookies, as they will get a lucky kill every so often so you can't say its a pub stomp. Its a clusterf#$%, but can be a fun clusterf#$% if performance for the server holds.
Honestly, I think the wooza's server is the biggest piece of crap out there, and his box is nowhere near sufficient to host 42 players. I never play there, but when I look up his server performance I truly don't understand why people can stand the lag in there,
About the server.exe hack, I use it to, NS2 has it flaws to, firstly, after a round (especially a long round) the server can completely depopulate, emptying the server. I am not really fond of that, this is why I hacked the server.exe and increased the slots to 28 players, I also wanted to add some reserved slots to my server, making it easy to join for anyone who is willing to donate or admins that need to enter the server at that time.
I know I am running a large public server, but I am also aware of the limits of the game and the hardware, I even have the make some changes in order to balance up so strategy element remains intact,
I will put player experience ahead of everything, this means, I monitor if there is lag, About the childish players, I haven't seen a lot of them, true, sometimes unfortunately there is a troll getting into the comm chair, fucks up and leaves, but there isn't much I can do about that, there are a lot of regulars and experienced mature players that are communicating.
I know my server is on the large side, I also understand that natural selection 2 is designed for 6 vs 6 and not 14 vs 14. This is why the ticks balance mod is developed. To make the game more suited for a large population.
I also try to be very transparent to the server population and listen to others opinions to improve the server. I think this sets me apart from other server admins out there.
"They do no realise large player count = not standard and game was not built for 42 players..."
Well the game ws not built for 1 player either, and playing alone was not the experience UWE had in mind when building the game, but guess what some servers get empty and stay like that, others are constantly full like woozas and some actually want to join that for that particular experience, i dont think that is a coincidence so you you can choose to play:
1v1
2v2
3v3
4v4
5v5
6v6
7v7
8v8
9v9
AND SO ON...it is your choice, and the more servers to pick from the better...
You guys seriously don't give newcomers enough credit...consider if a newbie came to these forums to be a part of the community and saw all this newbie hate...
If you started playing a new game, saw that there was only ONE server with a extreme amt of players..saw a group of 10+ servers with 24p and then saw the "official uwe servers" with 12v12, would you automatically think that the one extreme was the official way to play???
Comeon....there are obviously noobs in any community, but to think your fellow gamers (chances are ns2 ISN'T the first game they played) don't understand basic logic is elitism in it's finest. .
KungFuJV, that is good for you, but you are not everyone. Even losing 5% of the possible players because they went into some fail 42 (or even some 24 player servers) server is a massive shame.
KungFuJV, that is good for you, but you are not everyone. Even losing 5% of the possible players because they went into some fail 42 (or even some 24 player servers) server is a massive shame.
KungFuJV, that is good for you, but you are not everyone. Even losing 5% of the possible players because they went into some fail 42 (or even some 24 player servers) server is a massive shame.
Well, it's not good or bad for me....it doesn't really effect me at all.
If you lose 5% because they went into a 42p that's a shame, but don't forget to include the 5% of players who stay because they like that style of play. (Not the lag and performance obviously, but the large chaos filled games)
With that same reasoning, think of the LARGE population of players who don't post on the forums and enjoy 10v10+ games?? They are not playing the "official" way, but I know tons of regulars who would quit and not look back if they were forced to only play 6v6.
To all those saying these large servers are ruining your fun, its similar to say "gay marriages are ruining my marriage"
"everyone is getting married to nasty people and becoming victims of domestic violence/ stockholm syndrome, which is a great shame because it might seriously taint their perception of what a good marriage should be like"
But trying to get any sort of empathy or understanding from people on these forums or in this community in general is impossible considering how much of a superiority complex competitive players and vets (rightfully so in some respects) have regarding 24+ servers. More often that not, in the eyes of a vet, if you play on 24 player or more then you're scum. That's the impression I get on these forums.
I think that pretty much nails it.
Finally, there's only one other thing that need be said:
Every server starts out empty. Ever server requires at least one player to join to seed it. As many of you have confirmed, larger servers get seeded over small ones. And that's everything you need to know -- that's what the majority of the NS2 community is doing, choosing to seed larger servers. You think these servers are killing the community, but what you don't see is that they're saving it. Without them, right now, there would be less players playing.
So if anything, much though the elite among you may hate to think about it, you should be thanking Wooza. New players join, and stay, for servers like this.
Including me.
you kinda pulled that one out of thin air, if you would of removed all the 24 players or if it just never existed we would of just had MORE 18player servers filled up and not that "there would be less players playing"
i would rather have FOUR 18player servers than Three 24 player servers full, people join these large servers because it guarantee's sustained player count, what most people dont know is that this game plays much better with 18player servers, performance wise and strategy wise.
its also harder for new players to know the map and the game when everywhere he turns he will die because the enemy is literally around every corner, new players always think marines are "OP" simply because in larger servers marines are usually on top when you put equally skilled teams against eachother, marines turtles are almost impossible to break on large playercount servers aswell, making winning as aliens very frustrating if the marines dont concede trying to end the game
just imagine how hard it would be to try and end a game as aliens when the marines are on 4-5 ip's with 48 players 24 marines shooting melee based lifeforms , an onos would melt before he could get 2 kills <best case scenario
I wasn't going to reply further in this thread because it's clear so many of you who are against large servers have your head in the sand -- in denial -- about the type of game you think the majority of NS players want to play.
But I couldn't ignore this bit, which is a prime example of why some of you -- those who haven't even played on the server they are critisising -- have no idea what you're talking about. (Of course, I now expect you to get on and find every bit of evidence to support your view while ignoring all the evidence of why people continue to choose large servers over small ones. Be my guest, it won't change the type of game people prefer to play).
its also harder for new players to know the map and the game when everywhere he turns he will die because the enemy is literally around every corner, new players always think marines are "OP" simply because in larger servers marines are usually on top when you put equally skilled teams against eachother, marines turtles are almost impossible to break on large playercount servers aswell, making winning as aliens very frustrating if the marines dont concede trying to end the game
just imagine how hard it would be to try and end a game as aliens when the marines are on 4-5 ip's with 48 players 24 marines shooting melee based lifeforms , an onos would melt before he could get 2 kills <best case scenario
I'm not going to tell you why or how, you can join Woozas and find out for yourself, but I guarantee marines cannot hold a turtle versus aliens on a large server.
Don't 'imagine' Sharp-Shooter, go play 20 hours on it, and then you have a basis by which you can talk.
I wasn't going to reply further in this thread because it's clear so many of you who are against large servers have your head in the sand -- in denial -- about the type of game you think the majority of NS players want to play.
You're missing the entire point. We're not in denial about a lot of people preferring large servers, we're frustrated about it. Not even only because it means less players on smaller servers, but just because being able to enjoy these utter shitfests is something we can't and never will understand. In the same way I'll never understand how anyone not on drugs can like the Black Eyed Peas.
And in that very same way, we wish people didn't. For the sake of humanity's intelligence, if nothing else.
Large servers are cancer regardless of the server's performance.
The balance is not designed for them and neither is client performance up to par to handle them.
18 slot servers ftw. Much like Nvidia's motto: The way it's meant to be played.
Then you haven't tried my server yet,
Also, here is the changelog of my large server balance mod, I designed this to keep the strategic component intact, but with more action going on around the map, this is the 2nd version of it, and it's balancing out perfectly.
Marine:
- 2 infantry portals at start of the game
- welder cost down to 1 res
- Jetpack cost down to 10 res
- ARC cost increased to 15 res - 15 supply
- Shotgun cost changed back to 20 res
- Grenade launcher cost increased to 30 res
- Flame thrower cost changed back to 25 res
Alien:
-Skulks initial health increased from 70 to 79 but gain only 2 health bonus per biomass level instead of 3
-Faster egg spawn
-Leap energy cost reduced to 25% of total energy per leap
-Parasite energy reduced to 20%
-Adrenaline regeneration increasesed 10%
-Less cysts are now needed to cover the map and the spread radius is increased
-bilebomb dmg decreased by 10% and energy cost decreased by 10%
I wasn't going to reply further in this thread because it's clear so many of you who are against large servers have your head in the sand -- in denial -- about the type of game you think the majority of NS players want to play.
You're missing the entire point. We're not in denial about a lot of people preferring large servers, we're frustrated about it. Not even only because it means less players on smaller servers, but just because being able to enjoy these utter shitfests is something we can't and never will understand. In the same way I'll never understand how anyone not on drugs can like the Black Eyed Peas.
Haha Thankyou, you get it. There are (at least) two communities at play, some prefer large servers, some prefer small. All are valid.
I only disagree on the 'less players on smaller servers'. Some would be forced to play on the smaller servers, some would just stop playing entirely. Players aren't mindless drones that will go where you shunt them to. They play what's fun, and if what's fun for them are large servers and the large servers are removed, they leave.
I'm an example of this. I've played NS since before the official NS1 1.0 release. I've been a playtester and lead playtester. I've played competitively and my clan has won tourneys. And of course I play pubs. And frankly, at this stage of NS's lifecycle, I only find large games enjoyable anymore. If the large servers go, so will I, and I'm not the only one.
Hence, large servers are helping players to stay with NS. I get the impression some who have replied here would rather see NS shrink than accept that people can play on anything larger than 6v6. Which is narrow-minded and elitist, and an attitude in itself that pushes newbies away.
You don't seem to get the whole picture. It's not because we get frustrated that people play on another servers with different rules, not at all. Everyone is free to do what they want. Here is a summary of what has been said already (but nobody seems to read):
New players launch the game and go on the server browser, then pick the most populated server available usually because:
- they don't want to ruin the party for other players,
- they want to learn the game easily without a lot of pressure above them. If they screw something other people will be able to correct their mistakes,
- get the "true" experience of the game, if the developers made that much slot, it's for them to be filled right?
So here they are in a hacked server, judging the game on what they see, and deciding if they will continue to play or not.
The first thing they will notice is the bad performances, NS2 is already quite demanding on some computers, so even if you have a good one, a server with bad performance will make NS2 look even worse. How a player can think to continue to play on a game that do offer a good experience performance wise? Not a lot of people do not care for that.
The second thing they will notice is "where the hell is the deep strategic side of the game others told me about?". If people were looking for that, they would be surely disappointed. Gameplay wise it's not really deep and subtle. I don't say it can't be fun (if you disregard performances), but it's is not for everyone, and certainly not what NS2 is.
If they like that kind of game they'll stay, but if they don't they won't see the subtlety and potential of NS.
Of course people could, and should, try other servers, but with all the games going out at a ridiculous price (and mobile gaming), people use games like fast-food and quit rapidly if it does not feel their needs. But NS is no fast-food and need more time to be apprehended.
Now what if they stick (if they stick) to the game after all and continue to play on these servers until one day they try a normal server? Well all the thing they learnt on a big server can't be really applied on a smaller one. It is a different game and either they get even more amazed, or they get "depressed". In either way, a lot of players already quit the game for the wrong reasons and one being probably the worse: performances.
I don't think anybody want to forbid the big servers, but players playing on them, and especially new players, should have a notice that the server they are playing on is a modded one and that the experience is not the view of what the creators had in mind.
That's why we think the big servers should be filtered in the same manners different mods are filtered out of the default server browser. People still can play on these if they want, we don't care, but at least it is made obvious to players that it is not the default gameplay.
It is a little bit like combat, it is a great way to feel the game and aliens, but at least they made it obvious that it is not the original game.
At least if you have a big server, make a splashscreen when players connect to the game to tell the players it is a modified experience, and that if they want to try the original gameplay, they should go in -20 player servers. You could even tell them there are other great mods like Last Stand and Combat that offer, again, another game in the game.
I'm an example of this. I've played NS since before the official NS1 1.0 release. I've been a playtester and lead playtester. I've played competitively and my clan has won tourneys. And of course I play pubs. And frankly, at this stage of NS's lifecycle, I only find large games enjoyable anymore. If the large servers go, so will I, and I'm not the only one.
Hence, large servers are helping players to stay with NS. I get the impression some who have replied here would rather see NS shrink than accept that people can play on anything larger than 6v6. Which is narrow-minded and elitist, and an attitude in itself that pushes newbies away.
And just how many of the regular 24-48 slot players are experienced like you? You're projecting onto others based on your own experience, but I question the validity of those assumptions. Certainly when I've played on large servers, there have been a few experienced players (mostly muted/listening to music/mucking about) and then a whole troop of greens or should-be-greens.
It may be entirely true that large servers are helping you to stay with NS, but it's a huge leap to then extend that to the others who frequent large servers, many of whom only got there because they do what everyone does: they filtered the server browser by number of players and join one of the servers near the top of the list that has free slots.
That does not mean that they do/do not enjoy large games necessarily, but that seems to be the basis for most of your arguments about why large servers are populated. I contest it's more likely that the majority of players on those servers ended up there purely by means of looking for a game they can hop into right now - and those servers appear at the top of the list when that filtering is done.
New players launch the game and go on the server browser, then pick the most populated server available usually because:
This was said earlier by someone else: that's insulting to the intelligence of new players and gamers as a whole. And as was stated then -- when they bring up the server list and see one 42-player server and 60 18-24 player servers, do you think they're going to presume that's the norm? Try and give them more credit.
Now what if they stick (if they stick) to the game after all and continue to play on these servers until one day they try a normal server? Well all the thing they learnt on a big server can't be really applied on a smaller one. It is a different game
It's not so different as you think.
Most of the concerns I've read in this thread are blown out of proportion, including in relation to server performance.
That's why we think the big servers should be filtered in the same manners different mods are filtered out of the default server browser. People still can play on these if they want, we don't care, but at least it is made obvious to players that it is not the default gameplay.
I don't think it's necessary, but if enough people do I certainly have no problem with it. Still have them appear in the main list so people are aware they are present, but marked modded. That's enough to inform it's not the 'default' game.
It is a little bit like combat, it is a great way to feel the game and aliens, but at least they made it obvious that it is not the original game.
See, I never liked combat as much as simply larger NS servers. Combat lacked purpose and strategy. NS, just with more players on the field, is fantastic. Some strategies change as they should, and some new ones appear. But it's still NS. Just more of it, at once as it were
That was the impetus for this thread -- that fun-wise not competitive skill-wise these large servers show how great NS can be with more players on the field. Of course, that's my opinion.
And just how many of the regular 24-48 slot players are experienced like you? You're projecting onto others based on your own experience, but I question the validity of those assumptions. Certainly when I've played on large servers, there have been a few experienced players (mostly muted/listening to music/mucking about) and then a whole troop of greens or should-be-greens.
I think you said this earlier, and I didn't agree with it then, only because that hasn't been my experience. The experienced players tend to be more vocal, have mics, and organise the teams. Heck, play on Woozas for 30 mins with Radagast and you'll realise he doesn't shut up And when he's not talking, I often am. This is good though, because the new players that are on learn quickly from the experienced ones. And, while the games can be less serious, I don't think anyone just mucks around. It's actually pretty amazing when you have teamwork that involves up to 20 people. Doesn't always happen that way, it's a pub afterall, but smaller servers are no different in this respect.
That does not mean that they do/do not enjoy large games necessarily, but that seems to be the basis for most of your arguments about why large servers are populated. I contest it's more likely that the majority of players on those servers ended up there purely by means of looking for a game they can hop into right now - and those servers appear at the top of the list when that filtering is done.
I don't doubt that's true, but what's also true is something I said earlier in the thread -- don't forget every server starts out empty. Every server needs to be seeded. People are seeding these larger servers.
So it's not just about joining what's populated, players are joining larger servers unpopulated and in low populations to get them started. They simply enjoy the gameplay larger servers provide -- otherwise they'd never get on their feet in the first place.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
Its useless anyway but i have some small insider infos for you Martigen:
- more megapixel didnt end in better pictures
- more watt didnt sound better automatic
- more lumen didnt make a better beamer picture
More players = more fun? What a joke
"This was said earlier by someone else: that's insulting to the intelligence of new players and gamers as a whole."
You mean the skulks running loud as possible into a corner to "hide" , getting killed and jelling "How did you know i was sitting there"?
I have 2000 hours of NS2, probably 2x that in NS1... Iv played gathers been in clans, tried all kinds... But I can't stand 6v6! 8v8 is good, 10v10 is fun, and 12v12 is causal slaughter.
If I was forced to play 6v6 I would remove the game. Your reasoning that if you removed 20+ servers you could populate more small servers is flawed.
I played MvM yesterday and it was fun... Then I played on GibbsGorgeHut, same 4 players joined gold 4 games in a row. These were my 3-6th games of MvM. We got stomped, I had no feel for dmg, tech requirements, positioning, I was effectively new to the game. I had little fun and Completely understand why people who get STOMPED don't keep playing. My feelings had nothing to do with registry lag, etc everything to do with stack.
So you can all go BS about playercount or tick rate ruining the game but the reality is your just excusing your Sh!t ass noob stomping. The game is dead you killed it. Now all that's left is to play combat, MvM and try and eek out a little more fun because any thought of a competitive game with depth of strategy and variety left with the greens who got stomped.
that's insulting to the intelligence of new players and gamers as a whole. And as was stated then -- when they bring up the server list and see one 42-player server and 60 18-24 player servers, do you think they're going to presume that's the norm? Try and give them more credit.
Who on earth are you kidding? That's what people do.
Most FPS games don't have an RTS aspect that causes balance to shift around player count, so while they might well assume that large servers arent the norm, it's not immediately apparent that the gameplay is drastically different with fewer players.
That's not to say they are stupid, it's to say they're human. YOU are the one implying that this behaviour makes people stupid.
some who have replied here would rather see NS shrink than accept that people can play on anything larger than 6v6.
Who is saying things need to be force to 6v6? In fact I just checked, and no one has said it should be forced 6v6. I have read people say it should not be higher than 12v12, and ideally in pubs it should be 8v8 - 9v9.
Comments
And im wondering till ages that these hacked servers are still tolerated by UWE.
Server performance isn't some vague estimate players are making or confusing... Its displayed clearly (server tick rate) with net_stats in the console..
Conclusion : don't run a server if it can't hold 30 ticks. I don't care if it's 4 players or 40. Don't do it.
If we are talking about playercount hacks ( as it seems to be kind of tolerated ) could uwe make this easier to do so it's also avaible at linux?
Did you see any UWE servers the last days? XD
As to the topic. I tried Wooza out of desperation (no other servers with decent number of people). My impressions as a marine are (I only played for about 15 mintues):
1. higher % of rookies play on this server (I seem more greens than other servers I frequent)
2. no one knows what the hell they are doing - comm can't manage such a large number with any semblance of tactic - so no meds and no ammo. Definitely a you want ammo, build this armory scenario.
3. its funny to see a constant stream of marines going to locker non stop, it was like ants (map was Docking)
4. Being from Australia, my ping of really bad (300-400), but I see many with a green ping sub 100.
5. I quit after it rubber band me for about 1 minute.
Conclusion: each to their own, but definitely more rookies play on this server, with no communications as there are just too many people. Not really recommended for an authentic NS2 experience. But I can see the attraction for Rookies, as they will get a lucky kill every so often so you can't say its a pub stomp. Its a clusterf#$%, but can be a fun clusterf#$% if performance for the server holds.
About the server.exe hack, I use it to, NS2 has it flaws to, firstly, after a round (especially a long round) the server can completely depopulate, emptying the server. I am not really fond of that, this is why I hacked the server.exe and increased the slots to 28 players, I also wanted to add some reserved slots to my server, making it easy to join for anyone who is willing to donate or admins that need to enter the server at that time.
I know I am running a large public server, but I am also aware of the limits of the game and the hardware, I even have the make some changes in order to balance up so strategy element remains intact,
I will put player experience ahead of everything, this means, I monitor if there is lag, About the childish players, I haven't seen a lot of them, true, sometimes unfortunately there is a troll getting into the comm chair, fucks up and leaves, but there isn't much I can do about that, there are a lot of regulars and experienced mature players that are communicating.
I know my server is on the large side, I also understand that natural selection 2 is designed for 6 vs 6 and not 14 vs 14. This is why the ticks balance mod is developed. To make the game more suited for a large population.
I also try to be very transparent to the server population and listen to others opinions to improve the server. I think this sets me apart from other server admins out there.
Well the game ws not built for 1 player either, and playing alone was not the experience UWE had in mind when building the game, but guess what some servers get empty and stay like that, others are constantly full like woozas and some actually want to join that for that particular experience, i dont think that is a coincidence so you you can choose to play:
1v1
2v2
3v3
4v4
5v5
6v6
7v7
8v8
9v9
AND SO ON...it is your choice, and the more servers to pick from the better...
If you started playing a new game, saw that there was only ONE server with a extreme amt of players..saw a group of 10+ servers with 24p and then saw the "official uwe servers" with 12v12, would you automatically think that the one extreme was the official way to play???
Comeon....there are obviously noobs in any community, but to think your fellow gamers (chances are ns2 ISN'T the first game they played) don't understand basic logic is elitism in it's finest. .
Instead of 500 daily players we would have 525.
Well, it's not good or bad for me....it doesn't really effect me at all.
If you lose 5% because they went into a 42p that's a shame, but don't forget to include the 5% of players who stay because they like that style of play. (Not the lag and performance obviously, but the large chaos filled games)
With that same reasoning, think of the LARGE population of players who don't post on the forums and enjoy 10v10+ games?? They are not playing the "official" way, but I know tons of regulars who would quit and not look back if they were forced to only play 6v6.
To all those saying these large servers are ruining your fun, its similar to say "gay marriages are ruining my marriage"
To all those saying these large servers are ruining your fun, its similar to say "gay marriages are ruining my marriage"
It really isn't, that is a woefully inadequate and inaccurate analogy.
"everyone is getting married to nasty people and becoming victims of domestic violence/ stockholm syndrome, which is a great shame because it might seriously taint their perception of what a good marriage should be like"
you kinda pulled that one out of thin air, if you would of removed all the 24 players or if it just never existed we would of just had MORE 18player servers filled up and not that "there would be less players playing"
i would rather have FOUR 18player servers than Three 24 player servers full, people join these large servers because it guarantee's sustained player count, what most people dont know is that this game plays much better with 18player servers, performance wise and strategy wise.
its also harder for new players to know the map and the game when everywhere he turns he will die because the enemy is literally around every corner, new players always think marines are "OP" simply because in larger servers marines are usually on top when you put equally skilled teams against eachother, marines turtles are almost impossible to break on large playercount servers aswell, making winning as aliens very frustrating if the marines dont concede trying to end the game
just imagine how hard it would be to try and end a game as aliens when the marines are on 4-5 ip's with 48 players 24 marines shooting melee based lifeforms , an onos would melt before he could get 2 kills <best case scenario
The balance is not designed for them and neither is client performance up to par to handle them.
18 slot servers ftw. Much like Nvidia's motto: The way it's meant to be played.
But I couldn't ignore this bit, which is a prime example of why some of you -- those who haven't even played on the server they are critisising -- have no idea what you're talking about. (Of course, I now expect you to get on and find every bit of evidence to support your view while ignoring all the evidence of why people continue to choose large servers over small ones. Be my guest, it won't change the type of game people prefer to play).
I'm not going to tell you why or how, you can join Woozas and find out for yourself, but I guarantee marines cannot hold a turtle versus aliens on a large server.
Don't 'imagine' Sharp-Shooter, go play 20 hours on it, and then you have a basis by which you can talk.
You're missing the entire point. We're not in denial about a lot of people preferring large servers, we're frustrated about it. Not even only because it means less players on smaller servers, but just because being able to enjoy these utter shitfests is something we can't and never will understand. In the same way I'll never understand how anyone not on drugs can like the Black Eyed Peas.
And in that very same way, we wish people didn't. For the sake of humanity's intelligence, if nothing else.
Then you haven't tried my server yet,
Also, here is the changelog of my large server balance mod, I designed this to keep the strategic component intact, but with more action going on around the map, this is the 2nd version of it, and it's balancing out perfectly.
- 2 infantry portals at start of the game
- welder cost down to 1 res
- Jetpack cost down to 10 res
- ARC cost increased to 15 res - 15 supply
- Shotgun cost changed back to 20 res
- Grenade launcher cost increased to 30 res
- Flame thrower cost changed back to 25 res
Alien:
-Skulks initial health increased from 70 to 79 but gain only 2 health bonus per biomass level instead of 3
-Faster egg spawn
-Leap energy cost reduced to 25% of total energy per leap
-Parasite energy reduced to 20%
-Adrenaline regeneration increasesed 10%
-Less cysts are now needed to cover the map and the spread radius is increased
-bilebomb dmg decreased by 10% and energy cost decreased by 10%
I only disagree on the 'less players on smaller servers'. Some would be forced to play on the smaller servers, some would just stop playing entirely. Players aren't mindless drones that will go where you shunt them to. They play what's fun, and if what's fun for them are large servers and the large servers are removed, they leave.
I'm an example of this. I've played NS since before the official NS1 1.0 release. I've been a playtester and lead playtester. I've played competitively and my clan has won tourneys. And of course I play pubs. And frankly, at this stage of NS's lifecycle, I only find large games enjoyable anymore. If the large servers go, so will I, and I'm not the only one.
Hence, large servers are helping players to stay with NS. I get the impression some who have replied here would rather see NS shrink than accept that people can play on anything larger than 6v6. Which is narrow-minded and elitist, and an attitude in itself that pushes newbies away.
New players launch the game and go on the server browser, then pick the most populated server available usually because:
- they don't want to ruin the party for other players,
- they want to learn the game easily without a lot of pressure above them. If they screw something other people will be able to correct their mistakes,
- get the "true" experience of the game, if the developers made that much slot, it's for them to be filled right?
So here they are in a hacked server, judging the game on what they see, and deciding if they will continue to play or not.
The first thing they will notice is the bad performances, NS2 is already quite demanding on some computers, so even if you have a good one, a server with bad performance will make NS2 look even worse. How a player can think to continue to play on a game that do offer a good experience performance wise? Not a lot of people do not care for that.
The second thing they will notice is "where the hell is the deep strategic side of the game others told me about?". If people were looking for that, they would be surely disappointed. Gameplay wise it's not really deep and subtle. I don't say it can't be fun (if you disregard performances), but it's is not for everyone, and certainly not what NS2 is.
If they like that kind of game they'll stay, but if they don't they won't see the subtlety and potential of NS.
Of course people could, and should, try other servers, but with all the games going out at a ridiculous price (and mobile gaming), people use games like fast-food and quit rapidly if it does not feel their needs. But NS is no fast-food and need more time to be apprehended.
Now what if they stick (if they stick) to the game after all and continue to play on these servers until one day they try a normal server? Well all the thing they learnt on a big server can't be really applied on a smaller one. It is a different game and either they get even more amazed, or they get "depressed". In either way, a lot of players already quit the game for the wrong reasons and one being probably the worse: performances.
I don't think anybody want to forbid the big servers, but players playing on them, and especially new players, should have a notice that the server they are playing on is a modded one and that the experience is not the view of what the creators had in mind.
That's why we think the big servers should be filtered in the same manners different mods are filtered out of the default server browser. People still can play on these if they want, we don't care, but at least it is made obvious to players that it is not the default gameplay.
It is a little bit like combat, it is a great way to feel the game and aliens, but at least they made it obvious that it is not the original game.
At least if you have a big server, make a splashscreen when players connect to the game to tell the players it is a modified experience, and that if they want to try the original gameplay, they should go in -20 player servers. You could even tell them there are other great mods like Last Stand and Combat that offer, again, another game in the game.
And just how many of the regular 24-48 slot players are experienced like you? You're projecting onto others based on your own experience, but I question the validity of those assumptions. Certainly when I've played on large servers, there have been a few experienced players (mostly muted/listening to music/mucking about) and then a whole troop of greens or should-be-greens.
It may be entirely true that large servers are helping you to stay with NS, but it's a huge leap to then extend that to the others who frequent large servers, many of whom only got there because they do what everyone does: they filtered the server browser by number of players and join one of the servers near the top of the list that has free slots.
That does not mean that they do/do not enjoy large games necessarily, but that seems to be the basis for most of your arguments about why large servers are populated. I contest it's more likely that the majority of players on those servers ended up there purely by means of looking for a game they can hop into right now - and those servers appear at the top of the list when that filtering is done.
It's not so different as you think.
Most of the concerns I've read in this thread are blown out of proportion, including in relation to server performance.
I don't think it's necessary, but if enough people do I certainly have no problem with it. Still have them appear in the main list so people are aware they are present, but marked modded. That's enough to inform it's not the 'default' game.
See, I never liked combat as much as simply larger NS servers. Combat lacked purpose and strategy. NS, just with more players on the field, is fantastic. Some strategies change as they should, and some new ones appear. But it's still NS. Just more of it, at once as it were
That was the impetus for this thread -- that fun-wise not competitive skill-wise these large servers show how great NS can be with more players on the field. Of course, that's my opinion.
I think you said this earlier, and I didn't agree with it then, only because that hasn't been my experience. The experienced players tend to be more vocal, have mics, and organise the teams. Heck, play on Woozas for 30 mins with Radagast and you'll realise he doesn't shut up
I don't doubt that's true, but what's also true is something I said earlier in the thread -- don't forget every server starts out empty. Every server needs to be seeded. People are seeding these larger servers.
So it's not just about joining what's populated, players are joining larger servers unpopulated and in low populations to get them started. They simply enjoy the gameplay larger servers provide -- otherwise they'd never get on their feet in the first place.
But now we're going around in circles
- more megapixel didnt end in better pictures
- more watt didnt sound better automatic
- more lumen didnt make a better beamer picture
More players = more fun? What a joke
"This was said earlier by someone else: that's insulting to the intelligence of new players and gamers as a whole."
You mean the skulks running loud as possible into a corner to "hide" , getting killed and jelling "How did you know i was sitting there"?
This analogy is horribly flawed.
____
I think there are lots of assumptions thrown around by both sides, with very little proof.
If I was forced to play 6v6 I would remove the game. Your reasoning that if you removed 20+ servers you could populate more small servers is flawed.
I played MvM yesterday and it was fun... Then I played on GibbsGorgeHut, same 4 players joined gold 4 games in a row. These were my 3-6th games of MvM. We got stomped, I had no feel for dmg, tech requirements, positioning, I was effectively new to the game. I had little fun and Completely understand why people who get STOMPED don't keep playing. My feelings had nothing to do with registry lag, etc everything to do with stack.
So you can all go BS about playercount or tick rate ruining the game but the reality is your just excusing your Sh!t ass noob stomping. The game is dead you killed it. Now all that's left is to play combat, MvM and try and eek out a little more fun because any thought of a competitive game with depth of strategy and variety left with the greens who got stomped.
Most FPS games don't have an RTS aspect that causes balance to shift around player count, so while they might well assume that large servers arent the norm, it's not immediately apparent that the gameplay is drastically different with fewer players.
That's not to say they are stupid, it's to say they're human. YOU are the one implying that this behaviour makes people stupid.